From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 21 Aug 93 09:59:16 Subject: Re: that tome UpdReq JN> you dump a bike, at least you have a chance to lose some force to JN> friction with the road surface before you hit somthing solid. I think I'd rather be dead then suffering the effects of a half mile of road-rash :) Besides, if Man were meant to ride, we'd all be born sitting on Harley's. ... Q: Why did the Borg cross the road? A: That is irrelevant! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Alaric Thuryn 21 Aug 93 11:20:04 Subject: Ritual? UpdReq >I wonder if 9/3/93 will be a good day for a ritual? :) AT> AT> Actually, the best day would have been 3/9/93! :-) I have a special AT> fondness for numerical palidromes (I was born 9/6/69). AT> AT> Fare Well, AT> Alaric AT> AT> P.S.- Oh, I guess you probably meant in relation to '93' (I still have AT> no idea what that stands for). Sorry if I misunderstood! (But 3/9/93 AT> _was_ good!) I overheard someone explain what "93" meant. I promptly forgot. It has something to do with Crowley and adding up the numeric values of letters. I guess you're on the internet from the looks of your imposing looking message header. Did you know that all your messages appear addressed to "ALL"? At least here on my end they do. ... 668 - Second cousin of the Anti-christ! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: JULIA PHILLIPS Area: MagickNet To: KAYLA BLOCK 22 Aug 93 19:42:00 Subject: Re: Shamanism & C.m. UpdReq -=> Quoting Kayla Block to Airmid <=- KB> guess i didn't want to get quite that blatant---but that's basically KB> what i would have expected. i tend to think the whole movement (re: KB> new age shamanism) is disrespectful, but that's just my opinion. it KB> especially upsets me to see people making money off of it. I couldn't agree more, Kayla (and Airmid, if you're lurking). What always amazes me is why people allow the frauds to succeed? I mean, one look at most of them, and the thought that runs through *my* head is "what a dickhead" - I mean, how can you believe some of these twits? Oh well - there's one born every minute, I suppose B*B Julia ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: JULIA PHILLIPS Area: MagickNet To: MARK O. GARRISON 22 Aug 93 19:54:00 Subject: Re: Alchemy UpdReq -=> Quoting Mark O. Garrison to Scheherazade <=- MOG> There are several others including the Paracelsus Research MOG> Foundation. However, I do not have my notes with me, so I will have to MOG> get back to you on the addresses of some of these other groups... MOG> Hope some of this may have helped. :) :) Good job you didn't have your notes with you - my disk is only 245 Mb and wouldn't have been able to cope with all the information . Um Mark, old friend, old chum (creep creep). How would you feel about writing a teensy weensy (say five pages?) article for me on the subject of Alchemy? To be published in Web of Wyrd? I can't pay you (yup, you knew there would be a catch, right?), but you do get your very own, free copy of the issue in which it appears. (Second prize is *two* free copies ). Just a thought :-) B*B Julia ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ace Lightning Area: MagickNet To: Joker 21 Aug 93 22:44:58 Subject: Re: HI ALL UpdReq OOPS! I read your message on a net, so there was no way I could know you were the sysop. Maybe other BBS's on the net, or non-net but in your area, might have reading lists in their files. (I'd make you one myself, but that would mean I'd have to leave the computer and go downstairs and write down the titles and authors of all those books.....;)) Or maybe somebody else reading these messages will post a list. Anyway, *DO* read _The Spiral Dance_. It's a good place to start. I hope you find that this path is your home....but, if not, I hope you find your path anyway. Blessed Be! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ace Lightning Area: MagickNet To: John Reid 21 Aug 93 22:49:26 Subject: Re: Occult Shops, NYC Rec'd UpdReq I stand corrected. I'm usually on the BBS at some ridiculously late hour, and consequently brain-fried. No wonder I got the info all wrong....I had trouble remembering my password. (Besides, I usually just improvise with whatever I have handy, rather than going out and buying stuff for magickal uses. "Kitchen Witch" pretty much describes my style.) Blessed Be! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: JULIA PHILLIPS Area: MagickNet To: PALADIN 19 Aug 93 22:03:00 Subject: Enochian UpdReq -=> Quoting Paladin to Thomas Izaguirre <=- Pa> To my knowledge there was Pa> no occult fraternity prior to the GD that had as much scope or depth Pa> as the GD who, also admitted women on an equal basis. It laid the Pa> foundations of the Western Magickal Traditions of today. This was Pa> not just speculation or theory but hands on Magick. Hi Paladin - long time no type :-) I'd agree with your comments, but wonder if you've considered the influence of Anna Kingsford's Hermetic Society, and good Madame Blavatsky? Also, (from memory, so I'm open to correction on this!) I believe the Society for Psychical Research was active pre-GD. The TS and Hermetic Society were founded and run by women, and the SPR has a very strong female membership. Just a few thoughts in the cauldron, so to speak. Pa> Since the GD there have been dozens & dozens of groups. Most of the Pa> these can trace at least some of their practices back to the G.D. Pa> Each one owes a huge debt to the G.D. Hear hear. It's easy to knock the GD (and hey, they did do some awful things :-) but credit should be given where it's due. B*B Julia ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: JULIA PHILLIPS Area: MagickNet To: MARK O. GARRISON 19 Aug 93 22:29:00 Subject: JIMMY PAGE UpdReq -=> Quoting Mark O. Garrison to Scheherazade <=- MOG> In a message dated 13 Aug 93 00:52:52, Scheherazade wrote: S> Does anyone here know whether Jimmy Page (guitarist of S> Led Zeppelin) is still actively involved in the occult? Last I heard, he S> owned many occult stores in England, but my source could not be S> verified. Any info? MOG> He also owned Crowley's Estate--Boleskine for many years, and MOG> was a member of the Caliphate O.T.O. Although he has recently sold MOG> Boleskine (wasn't it Martin P. Starr finally ended up buying it?) and MOG> has since left the O.T.O., but I would tend to believe that he still MOG> is practicing Ceremonial Magick on his own, however. The man seems to MOG> be a very private individual, so I suppose no one would truly know for MOG> sure...:) :) Hi Mark and Scheherazade Jimmy Page used to own an occult bookstore in Kensington Church Street (number 8, I think), but sold it at least 15 years, if not longer. I have been there, but last time I went (early 1970s), it was closed up, and no stock. He didn't own "many" occult stores, though. Until fairly recently, you could count occult stores in Britain on one hand, less a finger or two . There are quite a few now, but none owned by Jimmy Page, as far as I know. When Gerry Beskin organised the Austen Osman Spare exhibition though, many of the paintings and drawings were loaned by Jimmy Page. He has an amazing collection of Spare's work (including some of the best magical ones). Mind you, Page's collection was rivalled by that of Barry Humphries, who also loaned a number of works for the exhibition. Now, who woulda thunk that Dame Edna was into Spare, eh? B*B Julia ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: JULIA PHILLIPS Area: MagickNet To: KAYLA BLOCK 19 Aug 93 22:32:00 Subject: masons UpdReq -=> Quoting Kayla Block to Ismark <=- KB> i'm female---i don't think they'd let me....\ I> I> Well, you could always pull a Mrs. Aldworth. She was I> this woman who did become a Mason in Ireland sometime I> in the late 17th or early 18th century. There are a I> few accounts on how this happened, as it seems no one I> can agree. But it did happen. KB> hmmm...maybe she cross-dressed? Hi Kayla - long time no type :-) I heard a version of this story - it seems the lady was hiding behind a curtain, and was present for an initiation. Lo and behold, she was discovered, and so they decided to initiate her, to ensure that she never revealed their secrets. All sounds a bit suss to me, but that's how the story goes :-) B*B Julia ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Crat Area: MagickNet To: Robin Arnhold 20 Aug 93 12:05:32 Subject: Religious Freedom 1 UpdReq -=> Quoting Robin Arnhold to Airmid <=- RA> As I said, it is a little bit difficult for persons who have been RA> exposed only to systems like Christianity that do not work to RA> understand that there are systems that not only work, but do so RA> according to unvariable laws. I take it you would be offended if I refered to a bunch of naked savages prancing around a fire praying to a spook buffalo and you would be right. The image would be both offensive and inaccurate. By the same token I find the concept that Christianity is a system to be passed off as something that doesn't work just as offensive. As you pointed out, just because there are individuals who have warped the practice does not destroy the validity of the whole system. I would trust that in your zeal to defend the Lakota and what you see as an injustice that you would refrain from engaging in the same sort of religion bashing of which you are accusing others. ... Is this seat saved? No, but we're praying for it. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 23 Aug 93 15:24:48 Subject: Re: SHAMANISM & C.M. UpdReq -=> Rose Dawn sent a message to Kayla Block on 18 Aug 93 07:42:18 <=- -=> Re: Re: SHAMANISM & C.M. <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. RD> I have several N-A RD> friends; only one of whom is serious about his spiritual culture, but RD> he's DAMNED serious! He's more irritated than outraged at the New Age RD> Instant Shaman stuff--doesn't consider it serious enough to warrant RD> much attention! I have to second this from my own experience, too. The most vocal people against the New Age Instant Visionary Experts, or N.A.I.V.E. for short , are usually either "concerned" liberals who "only want to help our Red Brothers and Sisters stand up against the rip-off of their cultoor," or A.I.M. members. The Traditionals I've known could care less, because they're concerned with what happens in that Other world more than what happens here. By this I mean that they know that the NAIVEs are basically harmless, and will have but a fleeting and minor effect upon the world, and that to have a real and lasting effect upon the world one must make changes in a Magickal way. RD> I suppose, as with anything RD> else, you could separate "the ones who do the work" from "the ones who RD> think the name sounds kool." ROFL! As a Native friend once pointed out, "How come all these Anglos have to have names like "Big Eagle" and so on?" Hell, they gave me an "Indin Name" too: Crisco, like the cooking lard! ;-) Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... The foundations of the pyramid were hewn in the living rock 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: MagickNet To: Albert Saperstein 23 Aug 93 16:39:40 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Rec'd UpdReq In a msg on , Albert Saperstein of 93:9400/0 writes: AS> Compassion in a capsule was developed by Merck Pharmaceuticals in AS> 1914. It's called MDMA. And more commonly known as Esctacy/XTC/X around the rave/dance cultures. But like Dr. Tim said, if you buy on the streets, you never know exactly *what* you are getting. ttyl Farrell 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: MagickNet To: Albert Saperstein 23 Aug 93 16:41:34 Subject: Re: THAT tome Rec'd UpdReq In a msg on , Albert Saperstein of 93:9400/0 writes: AS> What do you know, you snotty little twerp? I'm a white man, and I AS> hate you already. That was not nessisary. I don't think that any race has a monopoly on stupidity. I think that you should appologize. ttyl Farrell Moderator 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: MagickNet To: Emerald 23 Aug 93 16:46:04 Subject: Re: SAINT NORTON UpdReq In a msg on , Emerald of 1:202/311 writes: E> Actually "Emereror of the United States, and protector of E> Mexico" was his full title, (and the title that is given on his E> tombstone). Amazing man. He printed his own money, which was E> accepted by the businesses in San Francisco. He stopped a riot E> in Chinatown, by standing in the street between the two warring E> groups, and praying. He wrote letters to Queen Victoria, E> which were replyed to by the Queen, and taken seriously. A E> prime example of how people can change their reality, and a true E> Discordian inspiration to us all. I also believe that towards the end he declared himself "King of the Jews" as well... ttyl Farrell 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 23 Aug 93 16:52:02 Subject: Elvis Christ I/II UpdReq In a msg on , Kayla Block of 1:102/943 writes: KB> 93 farrell! FM>> In a msg on , Kayla Block of 1:102/943 writes: KB>> Elvis Christ----Superstar FM>> GODS! What a Hoot!!!!! KB> thank you! i'm glad you liked it! (i was worried that it might KB> be straying too too far from the purpose of this echo. glad to KB> know it was okay!) It might be an idea to re-post it in METAPHYSICAL as well...humour tends to be "on-topic" here... ttyl Farrell 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 19 Aug 93 08:23:46 Subject: ELVIS CHRIST--SUPERSTAR UpdReq You convinced me, Kayla! Getting initiated at Graceland next week as a matter of fact. Am hard at work enumerating the two distinctly different spellings of his middle name at the moment--gotta go! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Christeos Pir 19 Aug 93 08:38:22 Subject: Re: WOMEN & MASONRY UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. > Hehehe... for one thing, seems to me they're a fraternal > organization just as much as the Masons, etc; for another, most of the >1%ers I know would disband before they'd let a court tell 'em who to admit. Indeed, a fraternal order _par excellence_! And no Federal funds, unless you count the $$$ behind all the RICO and Bitch-busts, and of course, the BPA funds... ;> 1%ers disband? Never! They'd let the court tell them they who they had to admit all the court wanted, and Just Say No. Probably have some fun to boot, vis. the "eternal prospect" phenomenon! I recall that the _L.A. Daily Journal_ reporter called the clubhouse for comment about the lawsuit, and duly reporter "The gentleman who answered the telephone simply laughed for quite some time, then replaced the receiver in its cradle." GFAD! AFFA! Cha-cha-cha! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Ismark 19 Aug 93 08:45:36 Subject: Re: MASONS UpdReq >RD> Oh my! "Cross-dressing Irish Female Masons...on the next Geraldo!" > > Would *she* have to have sex with G.G. too? Of course not, silly--GG is on a *different* echo!! Anyway, you don't have to sleep with anyone to get on Geraldo, just tacitly agree to make a fool out of yourself. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: MagickNet To: Beorn 19 Aug 93 08:55:30 Subject: Re: HELP!!! UpdReq > I seem to have what's called bi-polar depression, which is mostly > chemical. > I may find my solution over at the drug store. Who knows, maybe > they'll > find a way to put compassion in a capsule, someday. If you have a bipolar disorder (formerly manic-depression), you may well find it necessary to take some form of medication. I was on lithium for some time and found that it levelled out both the upswings and downswings. Alas, I quit taking it because I didn't like the dry mouth effect... but I may well have to start again, as dry mouth is preferable to suicidal stupor. Good luck to you. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kenneth Freeman Area: MagickNet To: Beorn 20 Aug 93 15:56:00 Subject: Re: HELP!!! UpdReq -=> Quoting Beorn to Rakshasa <=- Be> I seem to have what's called bi-polar depression, which is mostly Be> chemical. I may find my solution over at the drug store. Who knows, Be> maybe they'll find a way to put compassion in a capsule, someday. You may wish to subscribe to walkers-in-darkness, an Internet mailing list of, for, and by people with bipolar and depressive disorders. You can get to it via FidoNet, if you have the correct address format. It's a superb resource; there's lots of great discussion about meds, family, how to and how not to cope, etc. There's also an an on-line aliasing service somewheres. Send e-mail thus: 'request-walkers@world.std.com'. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ismark Area: MagickNet To: Joker 20 Aug 93 05:25:00 Subject: Re: HI ALL UpdReq In a message dated 08-15-93 JOKER wrote to ISMARK: J> Please explain Wicca in Laymans terms so I know what you all are J> talking about. Well, there are others better qualified to give a competent explaination than I, but I'll give you the basic run down. Wicca is a religion based on a divne having a dual nature. Wiccans pay homage to a God and a Goddess thus paying tribute to both the male and female aspects that the divine should have. Unlike traditional patriarcal religon there is no concept of 'the devil'. Rather, the God and Goddess , often called the 'Lord' and the 'Lady' by Wiccans, share both positive and negative qualities, which is reflected in us their children. Wicca is a nature orented religon as everything divine can be seen in it's (their) creation. Since there is no 'evil' in nature, there is no such thing as evil except in the concepts created by humans. A wiccan temple is not a building. It is a circle. For Wiccans there is no need to have a construct for the purpose of devotion. The temple is cast at any place and any time one chooses (discretion presiding, of course). This, however, doesn't mean that a circle is *nessesary*. One could simply do whatever they choose to do whever they chose to do it. Which brings us to the ritual involved. There is no set form of ritual devotion. It can be as simple or as complex as the people involved. It can be from a book of rituals purchased at a store or from the head of the indivdual or group. What matters is how you feel. The only true commandment of a Wiccan is the Wiccan Rede: 'An it harm none, do as thou wilt.' This simply means that you may do any and all that you desire, so long as it brings no one harm of any kind, including yourself. It's really just good old common sense, but it isn't always so easy. It takes judgment. And if you don't follow the rede then you must be prepared to face the consequences. Which brings us to........... The threefold law is the belief that all that you do will return to you threefold. If you do nice things and treat people well then it will be returned to you three times over. If you're a lose then be prepared to be loused over three times as much. This doesn't mean that if someone is really rotten to you that you'll get nice things in compensation, it means they'll get three times as much sh*t back in *thier* face. The practice of magick in Wicca is simply the act of performing ritual to recieve those things you desire. Just as the Christans go to church and perform their rituals in hopes of recieving 'God's grace' so do Wiccans perform thier rituals for similar purposes. The difference, I should point out, is that Wiccans feel that the divine has given them the right to perform these rituals under the approval of the God and the Goddess. We perform our rituals to achieve our ends but since we have that power we are responsible for what we do with it. Doing anything with deliberate malice will surely bring repercussions whether it be magickal in nature or mundane. If something is done without malice but, never the less, brings harm to someone then there is still a price to pay for failure to exercise good judgement and foresight. Wicca is a very responsible religon. There is no 'devil that made me do it'. There is only my own poor judgment and foolishness. No one is going to absolve me of my sins, I pay the piper. Wiccans are self reliant, if something is desired then the ability to achieve it is there, right along with the responsibility. One last point. Wicca, as a religon, does not claim the be the only path. There are many. The bitter voice of Wicca comes out when we are oppessed by other religons (not to name names). When the unfair and untrue accusations fly. I could go into more detail but I'll let it drop for now. If you want to know more I'll let you know, just ask. Unfortunately, as I said, I'm not really the person best suited for the task. About all of what I've told you here is available in any halfway decent book on the subject (at better bookstores everywhere ). Perhaps you'll get lucky and have someone else reply to your post. Anyway, I hope this helps a little. ...We each pay a fabulous price for our visions of paradise. -> Alice4Mac 2.2b2 E QWK Eval:17Aug93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ismark Area: MagickNet To: Beorn 20 Aug 93 05:41:00 Subject: Re: HELP!!! UpdReq In a message dated 08-15-93 BEORN wrote to ISMARK: B> ... Pain is the fuel of progress. Is> It seems that it was *you* it was meant for after all. B> B> Yep, I think I've made a lot of real progress. The caterpillar hurts B> when his wings burst forth. B> B> So, why are you here on the nets. What is it about Magic that made B> you become a POD person? You don't ask the simple questions do you? Well, I have three very great interests. Music, computers, and magick/philosophy. Weird huh? I found this wonderful BBS here called Modem Magick from an occult BBS listing on America Online. I had been studying magick for sometime before that. Basically, if it's about magick I'm interested. I've always been interested in the practical aspects of magick but I really love the philosophy and culture. Funny thing is, I never had much of an interest in history until I started studying magick. Now it's all I can do to keep up with my reading list. As a result of all this I am a Mason, a pagan, and am pursuing ceremonial magick as best as my little human brain can fathom it. Oh yea, I stop to eat every now and then . I won't go into my boring life's details unless you ask. But that's the abridged version. BTW: Where are you calling from? ...We each pay a fabulous price for our visions of paradise. -> Alice4Mac 2.2b2 E QWK Eval:17Aug93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ismark Area: MagickNet To: Beorn 20 Aug 93 05:45:00 Subject: Re: THAT TOME UpdReq In a message dated 08-15-93 BEORN wrote to JOSH NORTON: B> That sounds more like the Energizer Bunny that the Road Runner. B> B> I wish I could ride, but two things are stopping me: I busted my B> tailbone when I rammed I cop car at 40 (obviously I was in a car), B> and I've driven every car I've ever owned at top speed on public B> highways. 120 was real nice on 4 wheels, but 150 on 2?!? Probably best you don't ride. It's a real addiction. If I ever get rid of my bike I'll have to attend Motorcylclists Anonymous meetings forver. Bike rehab wouldn't be much fun :(. ...We each pay a fabulous price for our visions of paradise. -> Alice4Mac 2.2b2 E QWK Eval:17Aug93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ismark Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 19 Aug 93 02:32:00 Subject: MASONS UpdReq In a message dated 08-18-93 ROSE DAWN wrote to KAYLA BLOCK: RD> 93 Kayla! RD> >I> Well, you could always pull a Mrs. Aldworth. She was this woman who >I> did become a Mason in Ireland sometime in the late 17th or early >I> 18th century. There are a few accounts on how this happened, as it >I> seems no one can agree. But it did happen. > > hmmm...maybe she cross-dressed? RD> Oh my! "Cross-dressing Irish Female Masons...on the next Geraldo!" Would *she* have to have sex with G.G. too? ...it may well be doubted whether human ingenuity can construct an enigma of the kind, which human ingenuity may not, by proper application, resolve-Edgar Allen Poe -> Alice4Mac 2.2b2 E QWK Eval:17Aug93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ismark Area: MagickNet To: Emerald 19 Aug 93 02:37:00 Subject: SAINT NORTON UpdReq In a message dated 08-18-93 EMERALD wrote to KAYLA BLOCK: E> Actually "Emereror of the United States, and protector of E> Mexico" was his full title, (and the title that is given on his E> tombstone). Amazing man. He printed his own money, which was E> accepted by the businesses in San Francisco. He stopped a riot in E> Chinatown, by standing in the street between the two warring groups, E> and praying. He wrote letters to Queen Victoria, which were E> replyed to by the Queen, and taken seriously. A prime example of E> how people can change their reality, and a true Discordian E> inspiration to us all. Now that's really nice to hear. Just goes to show that one man (person) can indeed make a difference, even if he was a bit crazy. And maybe that's what you have to be,crazy. But all the same it's nice to know. ...it may well be doubted whether human ingenuity can construct an enigma of the kind, which human ingenuity may not, by proper application, resolve-Edgar Allen Poe -> Alice4Mac 2.2b2 E QWK Eval:17Aug93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: MagickNet To: Thomas Palmer 21 Aug 93 16:52:62 Subject: RE: MASONRY and Women UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW PEACE, TOLERANCE, TRUTH In a message dated 17 Aug 93 10:12:00, Thomas Palmer wrote: TP> Ahem, MOG> I'm sorry, I hope you are not coming down with a cold (or is MOG> your computer coming down with a virus?)! :) :) TP> Just a little CPU congestion, but its feeling muuccch better now. Glad to hear it! :) :) TP> On a less legalistic note, Membership is not a right, but a privlege. TP> It take only two (in some states one) dissenting vote (Black Ball) to TP> prevent membership or advancement. MOG> This must cause a lot of unintentional "politics" and necessary MOG> "kissing-up" in order to keep oneself in good graces. You would MOG> think to be fair they would make it a necessary decision by Tribunal MOG> in the least... :) :) TP> Well, initially perhaps. While one is going through the degrees, a TP> three to six month process usually, one does tend to mind ones "P's" and TP> "Q's". After initiation is complete, however, it is amuch more involved TP> process to throw a person out. It then requires a "Masonic Trial" before TP> the Grand Master (in the US, he is the top dog of a given state). It TP> generally takes a violation of the Masonic Obligations or a criminal act TP> of moral turpitude to get a man thrown out. Just pissing off a few people TP> won't do it. I have even seen a Grand Master discipline a brother for TP> bringing charges of a personal, petty, and spiteful nature. That sounds a lot more sensible to me...and certainly a lot more judicially "fair." :) :) I had figured that with the many centuries FreeMasonry has been around, that they would have indeed came up with a more workable and less abuseable system so that the "politics" could be left out and more attention could be placed towards more "spiritual" matters. :) :) TP> In any event, since harmony and brotherly love is the goal of all TP> Masons when in Lodge assembled, a certain amount of "kissing up" is done TP> by everyone. One of the first lessons taught in Masonry is that of the TP> Compass, Which teaches us to set limits on our passions and keep them TP> properly contained (Circumscribed). Harmony, Brotherly Love and Control of our own Passions are some-things that everyperson needs to nurture, especially within a close community such as in any Secret Order or Social Group. Personality Conflicts and Egos have destroyed many a fine Group! It is good, and heartening to find that FreeMasonry attempts to encourage and promote these admirable traits amongst their members... MOG> Yes, I (and Kayla, and many others) have been very familiar MOG> with this, that is why the subject and question had been brought up. MOG> Alot of us who are members in the O.T.O. or those whom study the MOG> occult tend to read many Masonic texts...and are thusly are quite MOG> familiar with much in masonry...there are many similar interests MOG> betwixt the two, as I see that you do indeed realize. :) :) TP> I am interested in the O.T.O., as much of what we do in our "Wiccan" TP> rites is influenced by the more ritualistic rites of Masonry, but have TP> failed to make contact in Denver. Is their a way that you know to help me TP> find them here? My queries on the Boards have gone unanswered. I don't have any contact addresses for any O.T.O. bodies in Colorado handy, at the moment...however, I will try to get back to you tomarrow with an address or two. As for any questions you might have, I am most surprised that they had remained unanswered...Oftentimes, on other Echos, many Thelemites eagerly jump to help aid any one with questions...Perhaps it might simply be that there is so much traffic on this particular Echo that they got lost in between the proverbial "cracks." :) If you have any particular questions in mind, I would be more than happy to try and answer them for you, to the best of my ability. :) :) I am never too busy to help in any way that I can. :) :) MOG> Point taken, indeed. I understand what you are trying to say MOG> here, although, however, you must confess that the logic in this above MOG> statement is rather faulty. Who can say that these judges, lawyers, MOG> and politicians whom are members of masonry would have their loyalties MOG> be other than to the order and to their oaths as above stated. If they MOG> had taken the Oath of the Master Mason...part of which is to exclude MOG> said types from membership in their order...then, if those men indeed MOG> have honour, then they would truly honour their oaths. Thusly, their MOG> agenda and loyalty would be thusly biased...they would be restricted MOG> by honour from upholding (or rallying for) a law which is in direct MOG> violation of such a primary oath. Just a side-thought, though. :) :) TP> A politician or lawyer who abused their offices may have a long TP> political career, but their time as a Mason would be short. Dishonesty is TP> not tolerated when discovered. Also if you read history, you will see a TP> concerted effort on the part of Washington, Jefferson, Frankin, TP> Payne, & many other Masons to set up the Government of this country TP> according to Masonic principles of tolerance and Liberty. I have been quite familiar with our previous presidential and founding father's Masonic ties...and the influence FreeMasonry has had on the founding of the United States. However, I have always ASSUMMED that over the course of the centuries, that FreeMasonry would have become Self Existant like how our current government has been slowly becoming (so much for Jefferson's ideals of a government for the People, By the People and Of the People! Now it seems to be For the Government, By the Government, and Of the Government--But of what you have said about the ideals of FreeMasonry, perhaps their might be hope yet!)...Self-Existant in the way that their purpose becomes that of serving the continuance of themselves rather than the original intended purpose of the group...I guess I have spent far too much time reading and studying about the Grand Swiss Lodge Alpina (those pesky "Gnomes"), the Bouldherberghers, Le Fronde, and other such groups involved in the everyday "Conspiracy Theories", and probably tend to unjustly associate such strongly Political Oriented Masonic Groups in the same category as Blue Lodge and Scottish Rite....:) :) It seems as if there is much to be learned in concerns with Modern Masonry that I am most unclear or wrong about! :) :) TP> Ask a Mason about Masonry, he'll talk your arm off. That, I count on, and most eagerly expect....I do not mind at all. :) :) Take Care, and I hope to speak with you again. I have found this to be most interesting and stimulating. Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: MagickNet To: Christeos Pir 22 Aug 93 09:12:62 Subject: RE: XTIANITY AND MAGICK UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW In a message dated 17 Aug 93 21:54:11, Christeos Pir wrote: MOG> Of course. Look at the Jehovah Witnesses who proclaimed the MOG> exact date of the rapture--being around 75 years ago. What an CP> I think you mean the Millerites, precursors of the 7th-Day CP> Adventists. You know, I think you are right...:) :) Thanks! :) :) MOG> Know Thyself Explore MOG> Dedicate yourself to a particular path (even if it be of your MOG> own making). Attain Knowledge and Conversation with your Holy MOG> Gaurdian Angel--to discover and realize your True Will Work MOG> towards that Will Purify and Perfect Thyself--through ritual and MOG> invocation Cross the Abyss/Destruction of the Ego MOG> Seek Union with the Unknowable Infinite CP> (Whew!) For a while there, I thought it was gonna be difficult! Nah! Might take a long while, though, there is an easier way...you could always mail me a cool million bucks (and no monopoly money either!) and I will personally do the work for you! :) :) Voila! Instant and Painless Spiritual Attainment--almost as good as Instant Coffee (but not quite!). :) :) Chat with you later. Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: MagickNet To: Albert Saperstein 22 Aug 93 09:27:62 Subject: Re: THE RETURN OF BOB Rec'd UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW SLACK IS THE LAW, SLACK UNDER WILL In a message dated 19 Aug 93 15:48:16, Albert Saperstein wrote: AS> I witnessed the assassination at the Victory Theatre in San Francisco AS> back in '85, which I guess compensates for not having been at the head- AS> launching in Dallas in '63... I must say then that I am most envious...:) :) I have a couple Church Of The SubGenius Recruitment Videos but I have never had the chance to attend a rally. So, I have seen both events...Is it live or is it Memorex?...:) :) but I'm sure it would have been very much different in person. Slack On Dude Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Keith Franzen Area: MagickNet To: All 23 Aug 93 09:42:34 Subject: Yagna in So.Cal, Oct 123 UpdReq THE MAHAVISHNU YAGNA: HINDU FIRE CEREMONY OCTOBER 1 - OCTOBER 3, 1993 Presented by: Friday, Oct. 1: 6-9pm Hard Light Meditation Center Saturday, Oct. 2: 10-1pm & 6-9pm (213) 964-5077 Sunday, Oct. 3: 10-1pm Held at: HINDU TEMPLE 1600 N. LAS VIRGENES ROAD CALABASAS, CA The formula inherent in the vibrational sound of the ancient mantras generates gateways into the deep inner space of our true Self nature. By the end of the three days, the great mystery of this awesome universal force will speak to each and every participant according to their own language, understanding and experience. The form of the ritual comes from the ancient knowledge and method of the Veda, a very old system generating conscious interaction with the vast forces of the great Immensity, creating a union of heaven and earth. It will be conducted by a unique alliance of Western-American and Eastern-Indian yogis (Brahmin priests) who are highly accomplished technicians in the powerful and effective arts of meditation, chanting the names of the Divine and offering gifts to the vast unseen worlds of the Immensity. Brahmin priests from all over the country will be present to produce an offering of beauty, love and glory to the great mystery of the Mother's nature. Please accept our heartfelt invitation to come and attend the gathering of this great puja. The abundance of spiritual energy and harmony will flow through everyone who participates with an open mind and heart. Mark Griffin Founder and Director, Hard Light Meditation Center *** What is a Yagna? The word yagna literally means fire ritual. It is a ceremony often performed at times of great spiritual significance. Offerings of fruits, nuts, grains, flowers, oils, precious woods, metals and jewels are thrown into a yagna fire while Brahmin priests chant mantras in propitiation and invocation of God, the planets, specific deities, gods and goddesses. The mechanics of yagna are not the least bit vague. The qualities and abilities to generate the actual seed principles are akin to creating a very complex chemical formula. A precise mixture of chemical ingredients to bring about a given result is required. The Brahmins are alchemists who combine physical and subtle elements to produce the yagna. What is Hard Light? Hard Light is a Los Angeles-based organization dedicated to the teaching of meditation and dharma, founded by Mark Griffin. Mr. Griffin is a Westerner who studied with Swami Muktananda for eight years until the time of his death in 1982. He began going into Samadhi while studying with Muktananda, and continued his study with Kalu Rinpoche for six years after that. Conclusion It's highly likely that you've never seen anything like this, nor will you - considering the wild mixture of modern American samadhi and ancient method. To take part in such an empowerment generates enormous merit, virtue and personal power. It implies no less than the absolute union of heaven and earth. Directions: From the 101 fwy, in Calabasas: Take the Las Virgenes exit, south (toward the beaches). From Pacific Coast Hwy, in Malibu: Take Malibu Canyon Rd, north (towards 101). It turns into Las Virgenes. The address is: Hindu Temple, 1600 N. Las Virgenes Rd., Calabasas, CA. The location is well marked. Please bring something to sit on, such as a cushion or a very low chair. Donation: For more information, please write or call: $10/single session Hard Light Meditation Center 1875 Century Park East, Suite 5273 Los Angeles, CA 90067 (213) 964-5077 Formidable forces are converging, specifically designed to destroy impurities and reveal the Self. A single strike of lightning, sustained for three days. You are all invited. Light, Keith Franzen 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 23 Aug 93 10:32:00 Subject: MASONS UpdReq >> Would *she* have to have sex with G.G. too? > Of course not, silly--GG is on a *different* echo!! Anyway, you don't > have to sleep with anyone to get on Geraldo, just tacitly agree to make > a fool out of yourself. Excuse me? Wassail, Grendel Grettisson 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Donald C. Ives Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 22 Aug 93 00:28:06 Subject: Re: Elvis the savior UpdReq -=> Quoting Kayla Block to Donald C. Ives <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. KB> uh-oh---do you mean that your mother is married to my chihuahua? (my KB> dog is actually the REAL elvis). but, really, getting back to your KB> question---i don't know, are you the son of the son? (what WOULD that KB> be?) KB> 93, KB> ----kayla What you trying to say that I'm a son of a .... ? :) I've been called worse. Cool a rat type dog, and Elvis too! Too cool! Back to my question, and to answer yours. Ahm... How about calling it The Grandson. ;> Yes, I am the son of a son. Now THE son... I like to think we all are THE ONE. That is a rather pointed question is it not? Say hello to elvis for me. ;) LOL.... love is the law, love under will. Don ... This tagline is just for Kayla... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Donald C. Ives Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 23 Aug 93 14:43:40 Subject: Re: Elvis Christ II UpdReq -=> Quoting Kayla Block to All <=- KB> Part II of Elvis Christ----Superstar KB> ---Elvis died on the toilet. Remember, O Children, it was KB> prophesized in The Book of the Law "The child of thy bowels, he KB> shall behold them. Expect him not from the east nor from the west, KB> for from Graceland cometh that child". Enough said, I belive! I was reading some of the other stuff about his wealth, and all. Do you think the King would mind if I took that black pan head harley he had setting in a room somewhere in that house? I mean like hey if you aint going to ride the damn thing give it up man! I just want to paint it green, put a picture of Pan on the tank, and a flaming pentagram here, and there on it. Oh yes, not to forget the personalised tag 666. Just want to putt around, and sing hail to the king on it. Do you think the lord of this aeon would mind? Or am I going to build this sled myself? Take care.... love ya.... Too funny..... :) :) Yes, I'm twisted. Don ... This tagline is just for Kayla... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lori-Ann D'Antonio Area: MagickNet To: Lady Regine The Evasive 23 Aug 93 19:20:54 Subject: Re: Reply To : Women & Masonry UpdReq And then Lady Regine The Evasive said: LRTE> As the Bodies of Freemasonry are a private organization that do not LRTE> recieve any funding from government they can restrict their membership LRTE> as they see fit. Masonry, to use a bad example, is not like a country LRTE> club. Their charitable works are privately donated by the members. LRTE> Should the Commandery decide to allow women to become Masons it would LRTE> be their decision, not that of a governmental body. LRTE> LRTE> There are organizations that are affiliate to Masonry that have LRTE> coed/female memberships. The Orders of the Eastern Star, Daughters of LRTE> the Nile, Social order of Beauceant, White Shrine of Jerusalem to name LRTE> a few. While these groups are appended to Freemasonry, they do a vast LRTE> amount of charitable work and provide their members an expression of LRTE> ritual that is beautiful. LRTE> I would be happy to answer any questions you might have, As my husband is a Mason, I have given some thought to joining OES, but I'm told I might be the youngest person in the group! I used to think it was sexist to exclude women from being Masons, but having been raised as a Catholic, I began to see that the Catholics were no less sexist! --Lori-Ann-- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lori-Ann D'Antonio Area: MagickNet To: Ace Lightning 23 Aug 93 19:26:00 Subject: Re: channelling UpdReq And then Ace Lightning said: AL> I've been trained in *PERMITTING* the Lord and Lady (or any other AL> entity that isn't TOO nasty, and wants to chat) to speak through me. AL> But my "brother" (we were born into different families by mistake) was AL> going through a really nasty and tedious divorce, and started getting AL> testy with Aphrodite. She chose to speak through me to tell him AL> off.....on about fifteen separate occasions. She usually let me "peek AL> over Her shoulder", but not always. One time they had a really major AL> argument. Sisters, you ** DO NOT ** want to know what it feels like to AL> be used by a seriously p*ssed-off Goddess! Other than that, I LOVE AL> "channeling" whatever Beings are in the mood for conversation. ;-) I found out nearly 2 years ago that I had been chanelling UNconsciously for years! Now that I KNOW about it, it's much more fun, and while I don't expect to ever be able to "control" it (bad word, I know), I can live with it. Have you ever channeled a person still living as opposed to a deity? I have only seen glimpses of a p*ssed off deity, and that's close enough for me! {grin} --Lori-Ann-- ... What do you mean? You actually read this Tagline?!? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Barry Area: MagickNet To: All 23 Aug 93 13:09:04 Subject: Acronyms UpdReq Hi all - It's fascinating, lurking back in the shadows and eavesdropping and learning a lot from you folks but I have to ask - WHAT IS ROFL? Also LOL. I've got IMHO & BTW & IOW figured out, but ROFL and LOL are tormenting. IOU my thanks :). Barry * SLMR 2.1a * How wide is your reality tunnel? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 19 Aug 93 12:34:00 Subject: Elvis christ ii UpdReq Great stuff! ... Don't ask me, I'm just an Anthropomorphic Personification! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Farrell Mcgovern 22 Aug 93 12:33:06 Subject: Re: that tome UpdReq Thus said Farrell Mcgovern to Josh Norton concerning Re: that tome: JN> Good point, eloquently stated. But what does that make Coyote, JN> then? The Fool who has his eyes on the spirit and falls over JN> a cliff as a result? FM> Actually, you could probably put it into a really FM> Thelemic Framework... Groan! Do we _have_ to?? I like the Taoist and Tarot connections better. ... Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Norton races home. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 22 Aug 93 12:37:08 Subject: Saint norton UpdReq Thus said Kayla Block to Josh Norton concerning Saint norton: KB> thank you! thank you! for refreshing my memory regarding KB> emperor norton. i had replied to someone about who norton KB> was, but couldn't remember all that much. thanks for the KB> history lesson! My pleasure. And don't forget his two little dogs, which he called his "pages" -- every emperor needs a couple of attendants. Actually, I wish I could remember more about him. The book where I first encountered him had a whole chapter of shaggydog stories about him, but they've all fallen below the event-horizon of my memory in the intervening decades. Time for a visit to the university library, I guess. ... I try to make everyone's day a little more surreal. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Doug Nelson 22 Aug 93 12:43:10 Subject: Re: magic vs tech cultur UpdReq Thus said Doug Nelson to Josh Norton concerning Re: magic vs tech cultur: JN> RD> and tech-oriented cultures looking at JN> RD> mystical/spiritual/magical experiences as a more advanced JN> RD> form of technology. Dont'cha think? JN> JN> Do many people really think of it that way? Aside from some Chaos JN> magicians, I can't think of many I've heard say it. DN> That's the way I've always looked at it. I haven't found any holes in DN> the paradigm yet. But I don't extend the paradigm all the way :) I use DN> magical tool/ technique x the same way I would use a technological DN> tool, I don't need to know why it works, I just know that I can use it DN> in certain ways and combinations. Trying to balance left and right DN> brain leads to wieird cosmologies/metaphysics :) Hmmm. Perhaps I'm too close to the issue to see it. My mundane persona is a computer programmer, and I don't see any similarity between the perceptions and thought-modes I use in programming, and those I use when performing magick. To me the two areas are different realms with different rules, and attempting to combine them has always been a futile endeavor. ... Draw putrid dirt upward. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Fir 23 Aug 93 11:36:12 Subject: Pathworking UpdReq Thus said Fir to Josh Norton concerning Pathworking: Fi> Patience is not one of my strong points. However I do Fi> recognize that some things take time. The words Fi> determination and persistence sure do come Fi> up a lot. Can't be emphasized enough. Magickal work creates resistance, especially at the beginning. Persistence and steady work habits are your best -- sometimes your only -- defense against the diversions and roadblocks that inevitably crop up. Fi> I've got a pretty good idea about creating a sanctuary as Fi> that's something that comes up in many metaphysical Fi> lectures. Fi> I would like to hear more details about pathworking. I've Fi> got the Dolores Ashcroft-Nowicki book The Shining Paths. Fi> What do you think of that book? Haven't seen it, sorry. It's been a while since I bought many books on magick -- reached some sort of saturation point, and found I wasn't getting anything new out of them. I've got an unfinished set of instructions for my version of pathworking around here somewhere. Give me a couple of days to fill in the remaining gaps and I'll post it here. ... Ask me anything, if I don't know, I'll make up something. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Salgamma Area: MagickNet To: All 23 Aug 93 20:34:00 Subject: New Echo Proposal UpdReq The following is a description for a new echo, called GLOBAL_CHANGE. If you are interrested, please let your sysop know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change is always happening. We take that for granted. It's part of our religion. But if you notice, within the past 5 years or so, some very subtle changes are becoming more noticeable. Manifestations of "elder races" are appearing in humans more frequently. The occult is being discussed more openly (and with more and more counter- discussion from fundamentalist Christian groups and such), as are different fields of magick. Equality is being demanded by an increasing number of groups. Freedoms are being questioned, granted, and taken away. Tensions are rising in the general population. Citizens are fed up with the government. The government is hiding secrets. Climactic changes, such as ice-ages, global-warming, and axial-tilt are on the horizon.... We're headed for some strange times, folks. We're rapidly reaching a point in time when many of the world's religions and famous prophits say someting big is going to happen. What's going to happen and when? How will it effect us in particular? What are your theories? Am I crazy? :) What are some examples in current sci-fi and fantasy? Why do you look like an elf? Why do you feel you ARE and elf? What does the government have to do with this?.... Yeah, this sounds like some crazy stuff. It is. But indulge a bit, and you'll find that maybe something _really_ different is happening here. Brightest Blessings Salgamma 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Milamber Area: MagickNet To: All 24 Aug 93 16:18:52 Subject: looking for... UpdReq hello all, Im Milamber and I'm a seeker with heavy pagan leanings. Im looking for a net-that a friend of mine is active on. She goes by Rowan Moonstone and lives somewhere in Colorado. does anybody know if she is active here? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lady Regine The Evasive Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 24 Aug 93 09:32:40 Subject: Reply To : Women & Masonry UpdReq Greetings Kayla! No problem on the questions, happy to help. The world of Masonry seems a bit, well, odd to folks who haven't spent time with it. But that could easily be said of a lot of other organizations and interests. If you have questions -- please ask. If I don't know I can get the help from the brethern down at the local Lodge Library. Generally I just lurk, but I coudn't resist putting in my two centavos. Sorry my reply is so brief. I just got out of a week-long stretch in the hospital (for tests, it came out fine) and have a humonguous back log to page through. Glad to see Masonry being discussed on the electronic forum -- but then Masons as a group have always been at the front of new ideas. One Brother Ben Franklin comes to mind. Hoping to hear from you all soon, Ly. Regine the Evasive aka/Regina Townsend --- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Titus Vandessel 24 Aug 93 00:42:58 Subject: Saint norton Rec'd UpdReq 93 titus, TV> KB=of san francisco. the residents of that city joyfully TV> KB=accepted his monikor and also referred to him as emperor TV> You forgot to mention that he also issued his own currency TV> which was accepted by many of the local merchants at the time. TV> tvd. thanks, titus. yes, i had forgotten that part of the norton legend! 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 24 Aug 93 00:45:02 Subject: ELVIS CHRIST--SUPERSTAR UpdReq 93 rose dawn, congrats on your upcoming graceland initiation! (will this be your 1st degree into our current aeon?) BTW, i am afraid that i am currently uniformed of elvis middle-name. you must let me know what sort of gematria you come up with for this so i can write it up for the journal of elvisology! 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Julia Phillips 24 Aug 93 00:47:48 Subject: Re: Shamanism & C.m. UpdReq 93 julia, good to see you around again! you've been missed. KB> new age shamanism) is disrespectful, but that's just my opinion. it KB> especially upsets me to see people making money off of it. JP> I couldn't agree more, Kayla (and Airmid, if you're lurking). What JP> always amazes me is why people allow the frauds to succeed? I mean, one JP> look at most of them, and the thought that runs through *my* head is JP> "what a dickhead" - I mean, how can you believe some of these twits? Oh JP> well - there's one born every minute, I suppose well, i suppose they're well-intentioned..... 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Julia Phillips 24 Aug 93 00:50:22 Subject: masonic women? UpdReq 93 again julia! I> I> Well, you could always pull a Mrs. Aldworth. She was I> this woman who did become a Mason in Ireland sometime I> in the late 17th or early 18th century. There are a JP> Hi Kayla - long time no type :-) JP> I heard a version of this story - it seems the lady was hiding behind a JP> curtain, and was present for an initiation. Lo and behold, she was JP> discovered, and so they decided to initiate her, to ensure that she JP> never revealed their secrets. All sounds a bit suss to me, but that's JP> how the story goes :-) yes, someone else reported the same story. i find it all a bit hard to believe, but who knows... 93, --kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Farrell McGovern 24 Aug 93 00:52:06 Subject: Elvis Christ I/II UpdReq 93 farrell, KB> be straying too too far from the purpose of this echo. glad to KB> know it was okay!) FM> It might be an idea to re-post it in METAPHYSICAL are you the moderator on metaphysical? i've never poked around that sub, but sure, i'll post it there and help 'spread the gospel'! 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kat Area: MagickNet To: Kettlingurr 21 Aug 93 22:08:00 Subject: Re: Weatherfolk UpdReq Ket............you are not the only one who is responsible for Andrew. I was in on that too, if you will remember. I only wish that we could have gotten together on our directional sense. We could have sent it south, past the keys, and into the gulf where most other states are much more equipped to handle the threat of hurricane. That was my intention all along. Not only that but most of the other states, including Louisiana, could use a good hurricane to clear out the pollution that accumulates there every year. Mostly from off shore oil rigs. It got some cleaning, but could have used more. A trivia note here. Where in the heck is Morgan City? It's just two hours North West of New Orleans, and perched in a sea of swamps. I know. I used to live there. (Grin.) They have levies that are seventy feet high out there, and they can well afford to ride out a hurricane. Much more capable of it than Homestead was. They build for the darned things up there. Another reason why I was trying to send Andrew into the gulf. One of the reasons why he did so much damage was that he was such a compact storm. It was thought that if he sat out in the gulf for a few days that it might just broaden out. Weaken a bit. This is, more or less, what happened to Hurricane Frederick in 1979. It hit Mobile Bay if you will remember. I was there, too. (Grin.) The worst possible repercussios to this was that he might, like Frederick, develope a false eye. The false eye did more damage, with the 17 tornados spawned from it, than the actual hurricane did. The long and the short of this, Ket. Is that we both share equal responsiblity for it having hit homestead. Karmic debt? Why? There was no way that we could have foreseen what was going to happen. Or that it would be as devastating as it was. Beside that this storm was going to hit somewhere. Think of the damage it would have done, not just to the ecology, if it had hit at the Cape! Two Air Force bases less than thirty miles apart, Canaveral and Patrick, the cape, Cocoa Beach, Merrit Island, Cocoa, Melbourn. All right on the coast. And our building codes up here aren't nearly as tough as they are further south. Not only this but out escape routes out of these sensitive areas aren't even as reliable, in hurricane type weather, as they are further south. Bright Blessings Kat 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kat Area: MagickNet To: Kettlingurr 21 Aug 93 22:10:40 Subject: Re: Weatherfolk UpdReq I'm working off of there board here, Ket. Barb and Rock run S.S. Explorer. They're in my area. Bright Blessings Kat 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kat Area: MagickNet To: Kettlingurr 21 Aug 93 22:17:30 Subject: Re: Weatherfolk UpdReq Hey, Ket. Barb and I are cool. Aren't we Barb? (Grin.) At least I hope so. Hey, Kiddo, we can use the rain. I don't know about Barb, but we haven't even been getting the lightening in Cocoa. Only one good storm, and that lasted for about two hours with intense lightening, and only a bit of rain. We need it badly. We can see bottom on our fifteen foot canal outside the house, and since the canal is fed by the St. Johns River which dumps into Lake Poinsette, with dumps into our canals, you can guess what the situation on the river is like. Dry! I've been grabbing and pulling anything that I can get ahold of, but by the time it gets down here it's evaporated. The enironment is so screwed up as to be in utter turmoil right now. Bright Blessings Kat 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 21 Aug 93 08:40:04 Subject: Re: THAT TOME UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Kayla! > or what if Mensa had to admit stupid people? or if that tall Oh, I thought that was already a given--anyone paying out yearly dues to an organization just so they can get a little certificate that sez they're smart must not be too smart! If ya know what I mean. ;> 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Stryder 21 Aug 93 09:13:30 Subject: EVIL GRRRL SCOUTS UpdReq Hiya Stryder, > message bases on the computer and the 700 Club came on the > television. I didn't pay it any mind, I occassionally like to hear what > >they are doing, and who is their latest target. Anyway, I was sitting Ha! Long ago, when I was young and foolish, I used to enjoy getting really stoned and watching televangelists on teevee! It can be funnier than "Attack of the Killer Tomatos" for the nth time. I remember Rex Humbard selling some book he'd written, and telling the audience to get 'em while they can--because the book was going to be bodily (texturally?) ascended during the fast-approaching apocalypse, and would be "the first book in the Kingdom of Heaven," presumably increasing its potential value, although the book collectors wouldn't seem to have much use for it, and the "faithful" no need of it, since it would be available to them in heaven in just a few days. ;> And I *think* it was Brotha Jimmy Swaggert who, on his 47th birthday, appealed for donations in multiples of 47...$470, $4700, $47,000...! > the message bases when I heard him make the comment that the "Girl > Scouts of America" was a pagan organization because they paid respects to > Mother Earth. I think his exact wording was something "worshipped mother >earth". How disapointing! Surely he could've done better than THAT...it's obvious that the Girl Scouts of America are a secret, initiatory occult organization! Look at all the smybolism in those "merit badges." And they take oaths while holding their hands in odd-looking positions! They have ritual tools (knives, camping kits) and dress (uniforms, those mysterious sashes to hold said 'badges'). And honestly, does anybody REALLY believe that those scary stories around the campfire are just childish diversion? Why, the Girl Scouts are the imps of the Prince of Darkness his Ownself! The 'camps' their training grounds. Their hands the very dibbil's workshop! And don't get me started on Rec Centers...oh my Lord!!! > ranked right up there with his claim that he was not an evangelist during >the time > that he was going to run for President (that was a scary thought). Yeah--like Ross Perot saying he wasn't going to be rich while he ran for Prez...or Ronald Reagan saying he wasn't going to be brain-dead... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 21 Aug 93 09:17:00 Subject: Re: ELVIS CHRIST? UpdReq It showed up just fine here, darlin'. You even had me convinced, until I realized the folly of my ways, although the Qabalistic differences in the two spellings of his middle name are interesting...however, I've seen the Light and his name is Costello, not Presley! *Red* shoes, not blue suede! And the Angels want to wear them...much more convincing than a demand that they simply not be 'stepped on.' ;> 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Albert Saperstein 21 Aug 93 09:27:34 Subject: Re: TV SPECIAL Rec'd UpdReq > Oh boy, I hope I'm in it. Me-2! Although I'm sure you'd be left on the cutting room floor, HBO specials being what they are and all...most likely Twinkie-devouring, Pepsi-swilling blonde women named She Who Mates With Wolves promoting evil in our nation's youth with crystal-chakra-balancing and skyclad past life regressions and such. What better way to drive America's Youth to the darkside? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 21 Aug 93 11:07:44 Subject: Re: THAT TOME UpdReq > Good point, eloquently stated. But what does that make Coyote, then? > The > Fool who has his eyes on the spirit and falls over a cliff as a > result? I suppose you could come up with a fairly interesting "Warner Brothers Tarot Deck." The Coyote could be the Fool, with Bugs as the Magus. And of course Speedy Gonzales would appear on the Eight of Wands. I can see it now... Porky Pig as Har...er..har... the Egyptian god of silence. I'm not sure where I would put Daffy, Yosemite Sam, Tweety, Sylvester, and Foghorn Leghorn, though. Any suggestions? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 21 Aug 93 11:09:42 Subject: Re: ELVIS THE SAVIOR UpdReq > but, really, getting back to your question---i don't know, are you > the son of the son? (what WOULD that be?) If he was the "Son of a Son of a Sailor," he'd be Jimmy Buffett... a figure who is looked upon with near-religious awe by many "Parrottheads." 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Titus Vandessel 23 Aug 93 23:06:02 Subject: THAT tome Rec'd UpdReq 93 titus, TV> You must have missed my post of last week on the real author TV> one Peter Levenda. I have now gotten this name from two TV> sources -- one of which was his lover at the time he compiled TV> the Necro. yes, i guess i did miss your post on that. what is it that has convinced you that this was who it was written by? (do you know anything that might convince me? i'm pretty skeptical by nature.) seems like EVERYBODY thinks they KNOW who wrote this book. some of these theories have seemed more likely to me than others. but i'm amazed at how many different theories there are, and how few people admit that their ideas on the subject, ARE theories. (no offense intended, here---but there has been an awful lot of debate on this topic, with a zillion different fer sure, absolutely ture, 'i have the evidence', "facts" presented.) let me know what you know about this. i'm always curious. 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Thomas Izaguirre Area: MagickNet To: Paladin 23 Aug 93 18:42:38 Subject: Choronzon Club UpdReq Could you please run the info regarding that little organization by again? Owing to the obsolescence of my system, I could not download your previous answers and I would appreciate hearing it again. I am compiling info on c.m. and Lovecraft-inspired worship and neglected to record your earlier answer. Thank you! Curiousity killed the cat, but for a while I was a major suspect. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Walter Five Area: MagickNet To: All 24 Aug 93 10:33:44 Subject: THAT Tome UpdReq From: walter5@hrnowl.lonestar.org (Walter Five) Newsgroups: mag.magiknet Subject: THAT Tome Mr. Saperstein, "That guy, Cabal" is still alive and well, although I have heard that he's alienated some New York Honchos & is persona non gratis amongst his former colleagues. Don't ask me why, & I won't lie... Very true statement about it being a valid MODEL--I've maintained that opinion for years... Blessed Beast! Walter Five 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Constantine Area: MagickNet To: Frater Xavaaq 24 Aug 93 07:35:00 Subject: Milo UpdReq *** Quoting Frater Xavaaq to Farrell Mcgovern dated 08-18-93 *** > Im confused.. I confess I havent been on in a while, but while reading > through the message bases I notices this milo controversy. > > I did a back read as far as this system I am on will go.. and could not > find anything written by him that was any much different from many > other messages Ive read from other individuals. > > All I got a sense of, was that he managed to push the right buttons aon > a few individuals. > > Perhaps the pertinent noted have been zapped from the system I log in > on. > > Im certain he was made 'read only' because he followed a very left hand > path... I mean it would be the hieght of hipocracy Milo was made "read only" because he repeatedly posted claims over a long period of time that were annoying a great number of users (due to their irrelevance and his inability to back up any of his statements). I find it interesting to note that had he been threatening his wife and children with a physical weapon (i.e. a gun) rather than a tornado, his posts would be grounds for arrest... In short, hypocracy has nothing to do with it-- there's nothing wrong with arguing the merits of a left-hand path, long as one can do so rationally. There is something of a problem, however, with someone who's only purpose in posting is to constantly boast of his godlike powers... Constantine 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: SHAND Area: MagickNet To: Robin Arnhold 24 Aug 93 17:22:00 Subject: Re: Religious Freedom 1 UpdReq Across the electron void, Robin Arnhold said this: RA> It may be a little bit difficult for the person who has never RA> connected with genuine occult power to understand, but Lakota medicine RA> is genuine and extremely potent. It operates under some very strict RA> laws. If those laws are violated, even unknowingly by an outsider who RA> unwittingly comes into contact with a genuine Lakota medicine item, the RA> law basically whumps the bejesus out of the violator. If a genuine RA> Lakota medicine person sexually molested a child, s/he would lose RA> his/her medicine IF s/he were so lucky as to live that long. RA> As I said, it is a little bit difficult for persons who have been RA> exposed only to systems like Christianity that do not work to RA> understand that there are systems that not only work, but do so RA> according to unvariable laws. It is possible for a person to have gone through all the rites of initiation into a tradition and still not have a true contact with the Powers That Be. Such a one would have no medicine, and thus not lose it. Further, even in as powerful a tradition as Lakota Medicine, these things take their time, and a given individual's initiation is no guarentor that they are not an abuser. They may be one of those who are having their deeds still catching up with them. Finally, Christianity does work for a great many who practise it. Please do not insult or stereotype people's religious paths. Shand ... "Yield to temptation, I might not make the pass again." 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: SHAND Area: MagickNet To: Robin Arnhold 24 Aug 93 17:40:00 Subject: Re: Religious Freedom 1 UpdReq Across the electron void, Robin Arnhold said this: RA> Go back and take a good look at the original posting. I defy you to RA> find that particular quote in it. What it say is: "Also, a RA> traditional person would never molest or abuse anyone, child or adult. RA> The Tradition does not allow it." It is QUITE obvious from the context RA> from which this quote is taken that the only tradition being referred RA> to is the Lakota tradition. May I ask what authority you and/or RA> Airmid have to comment on the validity of statements made about the RA> Lakota tradition? RA> Instead of asking if her interpretation of the posting was correct or RA> asking about the credentials of the persons who had written the RA> message, she jumped right in and tore it apart. In doing so she was RA> implicitly saying that she knew more about Lakota spirituality than RA> Hinhanska and Pita Winyan, something I find patently ridiculous. RA> Hinhanska is a pipe carrier for the Lakota. He started training to be RA> a Lakota pipe carrier at the age of 3. He HAS the greater authority RA> when it comes to matters concerning traditional Lakota spirituality. I RA> have seen enough of Lakota medicine to know that what he says about the RA> Lakota tradition is true. RA> I can't help but wonder what Airmid's motivations were in writing her RA> reply. I can't help but wonder if you understand what Airmid, and others are saying: We do not dispute the statement that the Lakota Tradition forbids the sexual molestation of children. We do dispute the claim that WE perceive that, as a result, any person who claims to follow that tradition, or even holds Initiation in that tradition can not violate the ethics of that tradition. The Lakota tradition is a tradition like any other. There are those who follow it, and those who claim to but are only lackluster in their following, and those who use it as a mask for other activities. The fact that Roman Catholocism forbids molesting children hasn't stopped a great many Priests from doing exactly that. Those of us who are used to working with survivors of sexual abuse, especially at the hands of various clergy are very familiar with a whole range of statements beginning with the words "He couldn't have done it because..." To date, the only ending to this sentence that had any validity whatsoever were ones about physical logistics, not moral standing. After hearing it for the umpteenth time, we stop believing it. RA> Instead of addressing the very real issues of an injustice perpetrated RA> by our government against a fellow non-Christian, she took it upon RA> herself to pick apart the words by which the real substance of the RA> message was being conveyed just as you have chosen all by yourself to RA> support her so doing. In so doing, the both of you, regardless of your There is more going on than only issues of religious tolerance. Many valid claims of sexual abuse have been dismissed because the accused was some form of respectable member of society. Such appeals are no longer a credible defense. I do not know if the accused is guilty. I do know that the accused being of the Lakota tradition does not preclude this. If the accused were a Wiccan High Priest, that fact would not preclude it. Shand ... "Yield to temptation, I might not make the pass again." 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: SCHEHERAZADE Area: MagickNet To: MARK O. GARRISON 23 Aug 93 00:43:56 Subject: Re: Alchemy UpdReq Thanks ever so much from the Alchemy information. If it wouldn't be too much of a bother, I would like the Paracelsus Research Society's address. /770 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Brian Downs Area: MagickNet To: Ace Lightning 25 Aug 93 10:17:18 Subject: Occult Shops, NJ! Sent UpdReq AL>In the Long Branch area, as you heard, there's a new store AL>called the Equinox. They're actually in West End, which is AL>sort of the south end of West Long Branch, which is south AL>of Long Branch.....oh, you get it. They are mostly Wiccan, AL>shamanic, and tribal. They seem to be good people too. AL>So.....you live near the Jersey Shore? Maybe I'll run into AL>you in one of these places someday. Aha, so the Rumors are True! No, I don't live on the Shore... well, not the Jersey Shore, anyway. I do live, however, a scant few blocks away from the NY shore, but that's a whole 'nother matter, eh? I *do* travel down that way fairly frequently, tho. In fact, I'll check out the Equinox in a few weeks. B*B - bd ___ X SLMR 2.1a X (c) Copywight 1993 Elmer Fudd. All wights wesewved. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: Farrell McGovern 25 Aug 93 13:51:12 Subject: MDMA Sent UpdReq My sentiments exactly. Something else the rave trendoids seem to be missing is that this stuff is therapeutic, not recreational. It should NEVER be used more than once every 30 days, and optimal use would be once or twice a year. More often than every 30 days will trigger serotonin depletion, causing depression and anxiety and requiring medical intervention. I think the rave scene is HIGHLY subject to fascist manipulation. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: Farrell McGovern 25 Aug 93 13:56:54 Subject: Re: THAT tome Sent UpdReq Apologize for what? He was simpering on about how "women can hate men, blacks can hate white men, but white men are supposed to love everybody...", I'm not going to listen to a bunch of whining about the plight of white men. White men are not an oppressed group in this country. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: Mark O. Garrison 25 Aug 93 14:00:56 Subject: Re: THE RETURN OF BOB Sent UpdReq Dude: If the Cabbage don't Wilt, we'll make Cole Slaw. The big advantage of live Sui Generis frenzies is that you get to see how NUTS these people really are. Also, you get to be IMPLICATED in assassination plots and such... Bugs in the Slaw, don't pay the Bill. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 25 Aug 93 14:04:56 Subject: Re: TV SPECIAL Sent UpdReq But I have a lot of TEEN APPEAL, surely they wouldn't cut me out. My ripped abs, my rock star ass, my snotty condescending attitude, all the basic Howard Stern qualities of a man of the '90s... Stern was Aiwass, you know. FACT: the first radio transmission in the MidEast occurred in 1904, in Cairo. FACT: Crowley sez Aiwass was a baritone, looking like "...an Assyrian prince, eyes veiled lest they blast what they see." Sounds like Howard to me. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: Walter Five 25 Aug 93 22:30:18 Subject: THAT Tome Sent UpdReq Good to hear that Cabal is still around. In Texas? If you know enough to know that the Simon NECRO is a good model, you might be familiar with the work of Samuel Noah Kramer. Are you? I'm interested in Cabal stories. A sick pup, for sure. I have a few to swap. Last I heard he ran off with a Canadian circus. Rumor had it he claimed he quit his 20 year bender. Do you know if Levenda is still alive? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718