From: Christeos Pir Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 31 Jul 93 11:14:46 Subject: Re: millenialist-mediums UpdReq -=> Josh Norton sent a message to Rose Dawn on 29 Jul 93 11:51:00 <=- -=> Re: Re: millenialist-mediums <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. JN> Gods, who could manage it? The World Weekly News? (Let's see... "Two-Headed Baby Eats Firing Squad!"'... does that come before or after "Elvis' Face Beams President Kennedy Back From Mars!"'...?) JN> The story I heard was that it was two women who both thought they were JN> Mary, Mother of God. When put together they had an almighty catfight I too heard Rose's story somewhere else. Seems all those Jesuses sat around playing cards and making asides about how the other poor fellows sure needed help... JN> I've seen this story in several different sources going as far back as JN> the 1940's, so I suspect that it -- and your version -- probably are JN> "urban myths" of the psych trade. Like the Arnold Palmer-on-Carson story, or the "Crammit, Clown!" story. JN> Well, that's not what I was thinking in context. A better example JN> would be something like the medieval myths of communicating at JN> long-distance through a magickal crystal, which has manifested in our Clarke's Theorem again. JN> But Elvis is a good example of how some myth-patterns persistently re- JN> appear in human cultures. The mythical Elvis is a modern-day clone of JN> King Arthur, the pre-Arthurian Merlin, Buddha, etc. All their stories JN> have the same basic plot elements, with just a slightly differing JN> emphasis in particular cases. Y'mean King Arthur went to the Vale of Avalon while having a drug overdose on the toilet? Or was that Lenny Bruce? Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... one absorbs all and is called black. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: MagickNet To: Chris Olmstead 1 Aug 93 13:26:30 Subject: THE NECRONOMICON UpdReq Hi, Chris! Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. CO> Just wanted to drop you a note thanking you for the CO> most interesting post I've read in quite a while. I hope you had as much fun reading it as I did writing it! CO> I've snagged it whole to stuff into my evolving FAQ Have you seen the Necronomicon FAQ maintained by Kendrick Kerwin Chua at Carnegie Mellon? It's rather good, and was created to answer a real need on the UseNet alt.necromicon (sic!) news group for a quick response to all those necro-newbies that want to get up to speed without wasting a lot of network bandwidth. CO> file on the N., and will some day trace down all those CO> leads. You've offered a number of tangents (about the CO> 'mystery' religions) that are useful...I've got THAT CO> general heading on my 'list' of things to do some day CO> too. My rant touched only the tip of a very large 'berg, and was really meant only to suggest that instead of debating the relative merits or validity of this or that published N., which, though endless fun, is definitely _not_ productive of much real understanding, an alternative approach be taken to restore something of the CONTEXT of a thing like the N. and thereby possibly uncover further lines of inquiry which might prove more magickally germane. What, after all,does Sumerian mythography have to do with the Mythos? Squat! Though there are some connections with Oriental knife cults. CO> Once in a while I find writers out here who make me want to ask "Who CO> _IS_ this guy, anyway?" (Wishing I knew more details Don't you mean, "Who's this guy think he is, anyway?" };-] Don't let it worry you unduly; I'm nobody in particular, unlettered,unpublished, but not without attitude...... That Miskatonic Ph.D. on my wall is a fake, really! };-] I run the Arena, hack software for a living, and am slowly being crowded out of my townhouse by an unmanaged Crawling Chaos masquerading as a library...... CO> about you.) Both you and Mark O. Garrison merit that CO> distinction. I'm starting to ask it of Josh Norton, Josh has more magickal battle scars than most, and they rarely lock him up, anymore. CO> too. Some day I shall gratify myself enormously by CO> sticking the 3 of you into a room, tossing in CO> something like a golden apple of Occult conversation, CO> and watching the fun. This has been great. Hehe. I suspect we'd get on famously, so long as the sacramental beer held out! Love is the law, love under will. Az0th 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: MagickNet To: Christeos Pir 1 Aug 93 08:29:00 Subject: Re: Vision/Voice UpdReq CP> Got the Lovecraft today, BTW, thanks! Hope you enjoy it..... As far as buying books, now, it looks like I am going to have to hold off a little bit. You wouldn't believe how much computer equipment I am in the process of buying, and how much I am having to take out of my college account to do it..... TTYL.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Commander Barbarella Area: MagickNet To: Lancelet 30 Jul 93 08:15:32 Subject: Re: Demons/Dark Magick UpdReq Lancelet has been charged with the crime of consorting with Commander Barbarella. The evidence: La> La> I had to change the subject line, I was sick of seeing it. As La> far as La> Demons, and Dark Magick. It is definitly Dark in what he is La> attempting La> to cause, but I gotta ask, do you mean elementals, or Demons. La> Elementals I agree have little regard for rules and control, but La> personally I don't believe in Demons. Well, I have to respect your opinion, but since I believe in duality , I believe both Angels and Demons exist. I also believe that Elementals exist and that they have their own rules that one interferes with them, they "get even" anyway that they can and that one action can cause a chain reaction. Barb 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Airmid Area: MagickNet To: Nightcreeper 1 Aug 93 11:30:00 Subject: Rituals UpdReq NI>Am> if you are concerned about the land and the people, do a group ritual NI>Am> to NI>Am> set things right. NI> I do not belive in rituals, it is to strait forward into evil. So does this mean that the ritual of brushing your teeth after every meal leads to evil? That the ritual of planting crops by the moon phase leads to evil? That downloading and replying to your mail packet every day leads to evil? What exactly do you mean by this post? OLX 2.1 TD Press "+" to see another tagline. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Chaym Area: MagickNet To: NightCreeper 2 Aug 93 08:26:00 Subject: Milo UpdReq On 07-27-93 NightCreeper wrote to Amonramos... NC> I do not belive in rituals, it is to strait forward into evil. You may choose to believe in anything you want, but rituals are the basis of almost every religion. Some rituals involve large groups, while others only include a single individual; however all rituals contain at least some of the following elements: traditional words, chants, music or body movements, repetitive motion, words or sounds, focused attention, incense, an element of mysticism, and a belief by the participants that the ritual will have some effect. --- * OFFLINE 1.54 * I'm from the government, and I'm here to burn your home and kill you 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gary Area: MagickNet To: Kettlingurr 2 Aug 93 16:37:14 Subject: Re: Weatherfolk UpdReq K> Atlanta? nah...... let's go for Orlando instead. He'll K> miss Orlando, hit Lake Okeechobee and fill it back If you want him to fill the lake, you'd better have him aim for Atlanta. His aim must be REAL bad. :) K> up.....this would take care of the water problems from West K> Palm Beach south to Key West (yes, even the Keys get their K> water from there..... eventually). (hm. it Well, its not as bad as it was a few years ago. Although, this year seems to be drier than usual. Of course, anyone who comes down here for vacation doesn't seem to understand that. (It's SUPPOSED to rain down here EVERY day this time of year!) Take Care, Gary 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Grizzly 1 Aug 93 17:32:56 Subject: Help!!! UpdReq Gr> want her to..... see what a good person she is Maybe you could nudge her towards getting professional help. Just being there to listen to her is probably the best thing you can do short of that. Try not to pressure her too much, tho. Gr> Anger? Why all the anger if you don't mind me asking.... Hold on to your hat...it's not a pretty story: I had a bad childhood in a home filled with mental illness. I never got any support or affection from my parents. I don't *ever* remember getting a hug from either one of them. We moved around a lot, so I never had any friends either, in fact I got beaten up a lot (and worse). When I got to college, I got heavily into alcohol and drugs. The combination of that, my background, and heredity caused me to go over the edge. I sank into suicidal depression and what was probably clinical paranoia, but I never sought help...I couldn't trust anyone. I managed to roll a car over on a highway and added injuries and post-traumatic stress to the mix. Eventually I flipped out completely when a lightning bolt *just* missed me while I was tripping on LSD. I eventually recovered (or at least got the worst stuff suppressed). But just as I began to get on my feet, I was severely injured by a cop car that ran a red light, and had to spend lots of money on lawyers. In the course of the next two years, I fell down a flight of stairs, got evicted, developed *severe* arthritis in my spine and most joints in my body, developed liver problems, and got gout too. There was other stuff too. Basically, I am now a very bitter and lonely person. I was just fired from my job because of my personality and now have to face the fact that I will very likely go bankrupt if I don't find a job. Unfortunately, my self-esteem is so low that I'm gonna have difficulty selling myself. Wild thoughts of suicide alternate in my head with the desire to go join a Monastery. If there were Wiccan ones, that is. However, not to worry. I've contacted the local counseling center...and am going on retreat with a Sufi mediation teacher next weekend. He seems to specialize in helping people in distress to stand on their own feet. My Pagan belief in the sanctity of all life (including my own) will keep me from doing anything stupid. ... Help! The paranoids are after me!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ardat Lili Area: MagickNet To: Windrider 2 Aug 93 15:00:20 Subject: Re: the number "7" UpdReq W> *** Quoting Dominic Aspel to Windrider dated 07-29-93 *** > I always knew 3 stood for the Trinity in Xanity, and now I understand > what > the four earth elements mean, but what do you mean by the "culmination > of > three (God)" ? > > W> I meant "seven is the culmination" (read like this) and W> three= "God" in a Qabalistic sense: i.e., Deity.... W> 7 = 3 (God) + 4 (elements) I wonder, does this in any way relate to the numerical" riddle " 3=4=7 the above riddle was relayed to me from my High Priestess and with it said that it is the answer to everything and also told that it is an answer, not a riddle........ If my High Priestess were to assume an animal shape,IMO she would be a Sphinx. eV. & bC. . . ArDaT lIlI W> Make more sense? :) W> *) neb'het Windrider W> --- FMail 0.94 W> * Origin: Camelot BBS (93:9500/4@PODS) W> SEEN-BY: 102/943 109/473 128/101 209/226 382/7 502 9000/10 9001/0 9003/0 W> SEEN-BY: 9004/0 9005/0 9006/0 9007/0 9008/0 9010/0 9030/0 9040/0 9050/0 W> SEEN-BY: 9060/0 9080/0 9110/0 9200/0 9300/0 9400/0 W> 9500/0 4 20 9520/0 9550/0 W> SEEN-BY: 9580/0 9600/0 8 10 9601/0 9603/10 9607/0 9608/0 9609/0 9610/0 W> SEEN-BY: 9620/0 9630/0 9640/0 9680/0 9800/0 9900/0 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: MagickNet To: Mark O. Garrison 3 Aug 93 11:55:52 Subject: Re: THE NECRONOMICON UpdReq Hi, Mark! Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. G> It was not my intention to rehash the introduction to Hay version of G> the NECRONOMICON...in actuallity, I have never read his particular version. G> I suppose maybe that I should! :) :) By all means, don't miss it! The N. extracts in the Hay per se are far the least interesting parts of the book, which has as well an introduction by Colin Wilson, commentary material by Robert Turner, and appendices by L. Sprague de Camp, Christopher Frayling and Angela Carter. Great stuff, even read as pure fiction, and the ideas put forward are at _least_, suggestive. The thought that Lovecraft (or his father) owned a _Picatrix_, and _The Book of the Essence &c_, appears (in the original 1978ev edition from Neville Spearman) at about page 50, and is preceded by a lengthy discussion of the possibility of HPL's father being initiated into a rite of Egyptian freemasonry. It's most likely, IMO, that these ideas gained currency only upon the publication of the Hay. There is not, that I recall, any mention of the Voynich manuscript in this connection, though Wilson used it very effectively in his _Philospher's Stone_. G> THE PICATRIX (GHAYAT AL'HAKIM), THE VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT, and THE BOOK G> OF THE ESSENCE OF THE BODY OF THE SOUL are all very real, and quite G> legitimately historical. Of course; I'm familiar with the literature as well. G> Let it be known hereforth, that I put no credence in any version of G> the NECRONOMICON (that I have seen)...nor do I believe in the existence of G> one. I do believe, however, that there is quite possibly a real magickal G> grimoire that H.P.L. may have had access to that gave him the inspiration for G> the NECRONOMICON... So noted! };-] I will, I think though, disagree with this thesis, purely on the grounds that the available documentary evidence, in the form of HPL's letters and diaries, seems all too inconclusive on this point. That he was exposed to some occultist literature is clear (his quotes from Levi, for example); that he had at least heard of the _Book of Dzyan_ is also clear,that from Clark Ashton Smith; but we also find him, in one of his published letters, lamenting the fact that he had missed a chance to peruse Waite's book on the Arte! Not, I think, the height of sophistication. Then again... All the evidence I've seen, and such examinations of the material as the _Occult Lovecraft_ or the _Lovecraft Centennial_ edition from the English EOD, fail conspicuously to resolve HPL's sources to anything that was not readily available to anyone with a fair knowledge of the field, which HPL manifestly had not. This said, I'll be the first to admit that not everything HPL was knowing and doing found its way into letters or print, especially that related to the syphilitic disgrace of his father. Personally, I'd love to see evidence that HPL was on the inside track of the Ancient Wisdom(tm), but I think that the odds of this happening are substantially less than was the case in recent researches into the sources of the teaching of Gurdijef (see _People of the Secret_ for a fascinating account.) G> ANYWAYS!!! :) :) My intrest in this discussion was purely accademical- G> -not of dis-information or the furtherance of such rumours as would be worthy G> of the Bavarian Illuminati! :) :) Aw, cumon; that's our job! I suppose you haven't heard the one about HPL's -maiden- aunts, and the Beacon Hill catacombs, and the Boston coven? };-] A> The resurgence of interest here concerning the N. is itself a curious A> phenomenon, following a coarsely biennial cycle, G> Most interesting indeed. Have you attempted to chart out this cycle? G> Perhaps we might be able to gain some worthy insight into the nature of this G> Cthonian/Typhonian Current. :) Hehe. So far, I have to plead 'insufficient data' and simply speculate that the trend may simply be another spontaneous 'order out of chaos' phenomenon associated with the rate of information flow on the net, and its sprays into non-virtual reality. Funny things happen here. };-] G> If you have any doubt to the validity of THE PICATRIX, or THE VOYNICH G> MANUSCRIPT of Roger Bacon, be rest assured that they do exist--although ... G> I'm not sure if you are disputing the validity or questionnig the G> existence of these texts...however, if you are, and in essence are asking for G> me to supply proof, I could provide you references that should be ample Not at all; I'm well aware of the authenticity of these texts, and have myself followed at least some of the same leads you indicate, though not,I think, with the determination that you show. };-] What I question, in the absence of documentary evidence to the contrary, is their relevance to the work of HPL. I tend toward the more conventional sourcing of at least the name 'Necronomicon' in the _Astronomicon_ of Manilius. That hoary old piece has, as I can assure you, no pertinance whatsoever to the Great Olde Ones or their servants (unless they be Star Demons!),but was certainly familiar to HPL, and indicates a respectable knowledge of the somewhat specialized literature of which it is a part. I think it likely that, materialist that he undoubtedly was, HPL would not have missed an opportunity to crow his occultic erudition to his friends, had he the requisite scholarship. G> By the way, I did enjoy your expoundation on H.P.L. and his obsessive, G> unconscious fascination with death, and the essential need for something to G> explain this unknowable constant of life...Thank you for taking the time to G> write it. :) Good form, I must say, good show! :) :) It was no doubt unfair of me to use your original post as a peg on which to hang my ravings, but I really couldn't resist. };-] The similarity, in spirit if not in form, of certain elements in HPL's fictional Mythos to elements common in the historical realities of heresy and pagan religious myth and practice is frequently lost in the din of the 'Will the real Necronomicon please stand up' contest. The core myth of the Greate Olde Ones, cast Out but still powerful, and the existence of a cultus dedicated to the restoration of their eminance, is so blatantly Luciferian as to be shockingly illuminated by related doctrine, and I'd been keeping mum hoping somebody else would notice. That HPL's insights are grounded in the psychological realities of our physical existence is a theme which to date has only been taken up by literary investigators, and begs for an initiated magickal treatment. As fascinating as the work of folks like Burleson, or Levy, or St. Armand,or indeed a host of others may be in appreciating Lovecraft's place in history, magical writers seriously mining the same vein, e.g., Kenneth Grant or Michael Bertiaux, show only too well the signs of too-frequent contact with trans- and in-human entities, and need be approached with caution. Unfortunately, it seems to be the case that, the closer you get to understanding those things, the closer you invariably come to the real Mysteries, and the more trouble you're likely to have with implicit Oaths,and awakened Guardians, and ... You're likely to end up with something you wouldn't dare publish! };-] (Of course, how many Thelemites would welcome a learned dissertation on the antecedants of Thelema in the antinomian heresies of early 13th century Paris, or Joachite aeonology, or.....) G> Also, by the way, I was told that you might be the person to ask about G> this, but do you have any information on the Order of the Cubic Stone? Ah, now I place you! I believe we share a mutual (in my case, electronic) friend. Aren't you the fellow with a fascination with the ars memoria? All I've got on the OCS are some back issues of the Monolith, a late copy of their Outer Court document, and some highly interesting bits in one of Francis King's books. Seems to me I've seen an address for them in a recent Skoob Occult Review, too. What did you have in mind? (I'm on the InterNet as azoth@digex.com, if you'd like to use that...) BTW, have you found that Foreman's _Picatrix_ deviates substantially from the other versions mentioned, or is it much the same? Love is the law, love under will. Az0th 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Diva Area: MagickNet To: Chris Olmstead 3 Aug 93 09:56:02 Subject: Help pt 2 UpdReq Chris! > I have some time now, but honestly don't have much more to > say in a sober vein than I had in a humorous one. If the Thanks for the logical advice! Really! I think I was getting desperate for a moment there...(breathe Diva, Breathe!) *D* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Titus Vandessel Area: MagickNet To: All 4 Aug 93 14:38:00 Subject: The Necronomicon Sent UpdReq There's a fellow here in New York, calls himself CABAL, seems to have been around the block a few times with this stuff, and he maintains that THE NECRONOMICON (Avon) was written whole cloth during the '70s from material available at the University of Pennsylvania library and the rare book room of the 5th Ave. library here in NY. He says that "Simon" is an alias for a guy named Peter Levenda who worked for a foreign-based bank in the telex department at the time that CABAL knew him. According to CABAL, "Simon"/Levenda had a bit of a James Bond complex and got his ass in a sling with certain branches of the US Government back around '83. He maintains that "Simon"/Levenda also managed to tick off the OTO by stirring up a lot of "horsesh*t" (CABAL's word) about OTO being "fascist", another subject about which this CABAL character seems to know just a bit too much... Anybody know any more about CABAL, or Levenda? tvd. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X Raise your IQ - Eat gifted children! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Titus Vandessel Area: MagickNet To: Paladin 4 Aug 93 16:00:02 Subject: THAT tome Sent UpdReq PA=As I understand it Herman was hoping to use it as the "new" grimoire PA=for his Pagan group. The only book that Herman Slater ever wrote was a wonderful little cookbook called THE MAGICKAL FORMULARY. tvd. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X cc: Thee Ministry For Anti-Social Insecurity 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718