From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 29 Jul 93 23:37:40 Subject: That tome UpdReq 93 josh norton, KB> (just curious---is your name a handle or was emperor norton's name KB> josh?) JN> Both. Emperor Norton's first name was Joshua. There's several reasons yikes, i must have written my post to you when i was bleary-eyed and half-asleep. i just realized my question made little sense. thanks for answering it anyway! do you live in san francisco or the bay area? (somehow i was under the impression, maybe from a tagline, that you didn't) if not, how did you hear of emperor norton? he's always been one of my favorite legends! i only know of him from when i used to live in san francisco, though. i don't think he's too well known outside of that area, though i could be mistaken. JN> And besides, I always wanted to be a saint. yes, i can see your halo already! 93, ----kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 29 Jul 93 23:43:38 Subject: paranoia UpdReq 93 rose dawn, RD> I do understand what you're saying, but it could lend RD> itself to a dilemma--a LOT of people would say the RD> same thing in much the same words about any working RD> magician or spiritual person of a mystical bent! Well, this is true---and for the most part i even tend to agree! in some ways magick is a process of developed paranoia. in looking for 'meaningful' coincidences we are in fact, taking on the persona of a paranoid person. although i am a magician, i also tend toward a rather sxeverely skeptical attitude towards the whole thing, and can't say that i really firmly believe in ANY of it. i have finally settled to the 'conclusion' that regardless of whether it works, why it works, whether it's provable, etc.---it gives my life a sense of coherence and meaning, and if nothing else---it makes me feel better. (this may relate to my original reasons for getting into magick. namely, i had many of my friends dying from AIDS, felt life was meaningless. and to make a long story very very brief----got into magick to attempt to find meaning in a world that seemd to be devoid of it.) though at times, i act and talk as if i actually believed in any or all of this, there is always a large part of me that remains quite skeptical. RD> definitely 'out of touch with reality.' RD> Charles Tart, Ph.D at UC-Davis presented a fascinating paper on RD> Altered States and Virtual Reality: The World RD> Simulation Process Approach in November, .......... RD> plan on running off a copy or two & would be glad to RD> send you one--computers & psychotherapy, what a combo! ;> i would love that! i have always been a big fan of charles tart's work, but i have not heard of this paper before. it sounds fascinating. can you say anymore about what he said about inducing paranoia in the clinician? 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Commander Barbarella Area: MagickNet To: Niki LeBoeuf 26 Jul 93 07:24:10 Subject: Re: THE MILO PROBLEM UpdReq Niki LeBoeuf has been charged with the crime of consorting with All. The evidence: NL> Prodigy? Okay, okay, time for a hand check. How many other *P NL> refugees NL> have we got here? I just left there... had some good friends NL> there... NL> jeez, is everybody right under my nose? NL> Well, I left there quite a while ago. Just about the time they suspected the garbage they were found to have pulled. Barb 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Commander Barbarella Area: MagickNet To: Constantine 26 Jul 93 07:27:22 Subject: Re: Oklahoma and the storms... UpdReq Constantine has been charged with the crime of consorting with Milo. The evidence: Co> Milo.. I generally try to speak only for myself, but I think Co> most of the people suffering through your constant, juvinile lies Co> and whining over the past couple of weeks will agree with me on Co> this-- you seem like a genuinely pathetic person badly in need of Co> attention, and could probably benefit from psychiatric help. If he believes that he's done it is enough, Karmicly, to have to pay for it.. Barb 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Paladin Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 28 Jul 93 10:08:00 Subject: THAT tome UpdReq KB> thanks, paladin! even just what you have said here, makes me tend to believe KB> this as being true. especially since i have heard KB> something from a source who i consider quite reliable (who KB> didn't mention specific names) which would tend to confirm KB> what you heard. As I understand it Herman was hoping to use it as the "new" grimoire for his Pagan group. As for HPL getting the idea for the Necronomicon from an old MS found in a Masonic Lodge that has a certain ring of truth to it. I myself have found some pretty amazing stuff in old Masonic libraries. :-> Wed 07-28-1993 10:09:00 Paladin * RM 1.0 B0005 * Cthulhu in '96: "Why settle for the _lesser_ evil?" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Airmid Area: MagickNet To: Iktomiwin 27 Jul 93 19:33:00 Subject: Tall Order UpdReq IK>I hate to tell you all this, but historically, there were no midievil IK>druidic practices. The Romans found the Druids difficult to handle in IK>the political sense, and some time around the time of Claudius, they IK>hunted most of them down and destroyed them. They even went so far as IK>to invade the Isle of Man (a druid stronghold) and slash and burn IK>everything. You may note that the Romans never made it to Ireland. Christian writers in Ireland often found it necessary to declare of the TdD "these are not gods, but men, and I do not worship them." Bards and filidh certainly existed until at least the 14th century, although admittedly the filidh were almost all affiliated with monasteries by that time. IK>I am sure that there were little secret pockets that survived into the IK>tenth or eleventh centuries,but those practices would not have been IK>written down, at least not according to the Druidic law...this was an IK>oral tradition. If you are really seeking, the best scholarship IK>available is being done by the ADF. They do have an echo on the PODS IK>net, and they can give you really reliable sources, as well as a IK>connection to their own groves. Druids did occasionally write things down, but most of what they wrote is long lost, due to vigorous burnings and destructions of manuscripts. Some material survives in the things written by Christian monks, including some very suggestive material translated relatively recently, such as a poem called "The Cauldron of Poesy" which was likely to have been written by someone trained in Pagan poetic methods. ADF is doing a little work, but in DP10, their most recent magazine, the article on doing Celtic scholarship is, IMO quite faulty, saying for instance, that Renfrew has a lot of detractors, many problems and some theories that don't hold water, and then using Renfrew's book as the most frequently cited text in the article. I can't call this effective scholarship. There is also a CELTIC echo on the PODSnet (I should know, I'm the moderator), where those who are actually interested in Celts -- rather than the ADF's pan-Indo-Europeanism -- hang out and talk. OLX 2.1 TD Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Airmid Area: MagickNet To: Lee Dohm 27 Jul 93 19:35:00 Subject: Oklahoma And The Storms.. UpdReq LD>Then do it like a person with a spine! Go find her, take back your LD>children and blow her away or something! I don't think you can even do I understand your annoyance, and in fact I share it, but do you understand that you have here advocated murder? OLX 2.1 TD Press "+" to see another tagline. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Iktomiwin Area: MagickNet To: Airmid 29 Jul 93 17:36:00 Subject: Tall Order UpdReq Ah, well...I will defer to you...I know a little about the history, but have no real interest in Druidic practice. I think it is healthy to have good debate on such things...it makes people really examine the material. I got the impression that the person asking was looking for some diffinative work, and as far as I know, there isn't one. I will check out your echo though. thanks. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Thomas Izaguirre Area: MagickNet To: Crat 29 Jul 93 12:00:06 Subject: Enochian UpdReq In regards to the magical accoutrements, there is considerable evidence that indeed these were made as a necessary part of the ritual of evocation, at least for the first ones. Ben Rowe has postulated that the implements were necessary to establish the window of power and became superfluous afterwards since the magical link had thereafter been made. In "De Heptarchia Mystica" the dialogues deal had with the Angelic spirits are transcribed and they state unequivocally, for examples, that "without this ring, you can do nothing," referring to the gold ring inscribed with a quartered circle and the word PELE (worker of wonders). The table and mosts of the seals survived up until the mid-18th Century, when they were destroyed in a fire. The reason for these accoutrements, as far as can be determined (and we do well to remember that many of Dee's notes met an ignominious end as liners for pie trays), is that the method of evocation breaks with traditional means by not establishing a sacred space from which to work. This is exceedingly dangerous in such ritual magic but apparently the ensigns of creations on the Holy Table plus the circle of banners bearings the name of the directions, serve as the sacred space. As for the Christian elements in the chants, I find little problem with them, though they do indeed have a very Gnostic flavor to them (which has always been an undercurrent in the religion). I regard the First Call as a reminder of the impermanence of the material world as well as an elaboration of the phrase "as above, so below." I make no attributions outside of what is there since none have been made in the text. The angels and tablets follow a combination of planetary and geomantic magics so far as can be determined. Someone like Rowe can easily make whatever further attributions he cares with the proviso that he knows where the original ends and his innovations begin. I hope this has answered your question. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Thomas Izaguirre Area: MagickNet To: Paladin 29 Jul 93 12:14:26 Subject: Enochian UpdReq P> CMIIW I don't recall either Mathers or Westcott ever claiming that P> the GD was an "authentic" depiction of Dee's work. The GD drew from P> many sources not just John Dee & not just Enochian magic. True, but just the same one should preface one's revisions with some disclaimers, otherwise you have the magical equivalent of the film "Bram Stoker's Dracula" and we both know (assuming you've seen it as well) it just ain't. It is more the offshoots who are dogmatic about the GD system, though Pat Zalewski's group seems to be slowly heading into the original material of Dee. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Windrider Area: MagickNet To: Dominic Aspel 30 Jul 93 23:59:00 Subject: Re: the number "7" UpdReq *** Quoting Dominic Aspel to Windrider dated 07-29-93 *** > I always knew 3 stood for the Trinity in Xanity, and now I understand > what > the four earth elements mean, but what do you mean by the "culmination > of > three (God)" ? > > I meant "seven is the culmination" (read like this) and three= "God" in a Qabalistic sense: i.e., Deity.... 7 = 3 (God) + 4 (elements) Make more sense? :) *) neb'het Windrider 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Olorin Area: MagickNet To: Christeos Pir 28 Jul 93 10:51:00 Subject: Vision/Voice UpdReq CP> PH> inbreeding is also the formula for incarnating divinity in several CP> PH> cultures (Pharaonic Egypt and Hawaiian royalty, to name two). CP> You forgot West Virginia. Lurker Alert: Wait a minute! My Family tree has one or two branches (I think?) :-})> * OLX 2.2 * When I want your OPINION I'll read your entrails... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Masseur For Hire Area: MagickNet To: Rakshasa 31 Jul 93 02:25:18 Subject: Re: OKLAHOMA AND THE STORMS.. UpdReq I Overheard Rakshasa Whispering To Lee Dohm! Ra> moved it a few miles west, so asto take out Oral Roberts Ra> University. But there are some of us Pagans that want to BUY that place, just to thumb our noses up at those that beleive that type of religion is for them... Masseur For Hire 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Constantine 29 Jul 93 08:54:12 Subject: Truth and only the truth UpdReq -=> Quoting Constantine to Freydis Vasa <=- Co> But Milo WROTE the Farmers' Almanac. Didn't you know that? He also Co> started every historical war, was the inspiration for countless poets Co> and writers over the past few thousand years, and single-handedly Co> pioneered Chaos Physics. *and* he's the Mage that launched a thousand snits. ... Help! The paranoids are after me!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grizzly Area: MagickNet To: Beorn 31 Jul 93 07:31:00 Subject: Help!!! UpdReq Gr> me. Right now she still can't belive ANYONE would love her. Which is Gr> all part of the abuse she went thru'. Bn>And that, unfortunately, is something you can't give her. If it doesn't Bn>come from within, it doesn't come at all. What I do want is for her to relize that it is possible. But I know I can't *MAKE* her love herself or anyone else for that matter. I just want her to..... see what a good person she is, I know this will take a llllllooooonnnnnnnggggggg time. Gr> Well I always feel I can learn more. But what is enough? I have yet Gr> to feel the connection you speak of. That is what I am looking for I Gr> guess. Bn>I feel the connection, but I have too much anger inside me to use it without Bn>hurting people. Anger? Why all the anger if you don't mind me asking.... Bn>... Does a beard itch in the woods? Yes..... Grizzly ___ X DeLuxe2bc #5869 X But it seemed so easy in the store?!?! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Paladin 31 Jul 93 03:00:02 Subject: THAT tome UpdReq 93 paladin, P> myself have found some pretty amazing stuff in old Masonic P> libraries. :-> if you don't mind me asking, how have you managed to get access to old masonic libraries? 93, ----kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amonramos Area: MagickNet To: Brian Downs 29 Jul 93 17:44:02 Subject: Milo Milange' UpdReq BD>The only group ritual concerning Milo's exploits that I and my Coven BD>feel is appropriate is only to read his excerpted posts aloud, and BD>scream with laughter... BD>... but realize that he's not alone in this distinction. We oftentimes BD>read Jack T. Chick pamphlets with the same amusement! Sometimes the best (and most powerful spell) is one based on laughter. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amonramos Area: MagickNet To: Milo 30 Jul 93 06:47:02 Subject: Truth And Only The Truth UpdReq MI>I have never in my life even so muched as gazed upon a Farmer's Almanac. Also, considering that you didn't announce your weather-skill until after the deluge of the middle states had already begun, there is no need to appeal to the existence of the info in the almenac. Hindsight is always perfect, as they say. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amonramos Area: MagickNet To: Fir 30 Jul 93 06:52:04 Subject: Pot And The Aura UpdReq FI>I've a friend who runs sweats. He studied for a few years with FI>a medicine man who is part Ute and part Picuris Pueblo Indian. FI>My friend also believes that smoking marajuana pokes holes in FI>the aura, although not necessarily that it allows adverse FI>influences through. Could it be like other magic, which says that, if you banish something (from yourself or from another), SOMETHING will replace it? E.g. I, personally, never banish "bad" without summoning in "good" (terms relative to the beholder). 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: MagickNet To: DOMINIC ASPEL 31 Jul 93 00:08:00 Subject: Seven UpdReq > In all the religions I've studied, the numbers 3, 7, 10, 40, and 144,000 > keep comming up. Seven comes up more than the word "and" in some > religions. > Anybody got any ideas as to why seven is so important? Or is it just a > mystery. It isn't important in my religion or in the Celto-Germanic world in general. 3's and 9's are important. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Donald C. Ives 31 Jul 93 04:05:12 Subject: Hello... UpdReq 93 donald! well, what a surprise! i was tring to figure out who had written this post to me. the name sounded familiar, but i couldn't quite figure it out. anyway, yes, i am local to mysteria. it's the board i usually get on these echoes through. though sometimes i go through a board called "innerspace" or something like that. though i never like to push a particular path on to anyone, i am glad you've developed an interest in thelema. bear in mind though, that much of crowley's written work can be easily misinterpreted. if you find anything of his writings to be puzzling or frighteneing, etc. feel free to ask alot of questions. (when i was a newbie to thelema, i think i would have been scared off if it hadn't been for the advice and input froma close magician friend of mine who isn't even a thelemite himself!) i just got beeped that i'm about out of time. i'll type at you soon! 93, ----kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: MagickNet To: Chris Olmstead 30 Jul 93 21:24:38 Subject: THAT tome UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW CO> I'm pretty sure that Dee wrote in the 1700's...and I don't think he CO> had, or has, anything to do with the necronomicon unless some of his CO> stuff was added to the fiction. Oh, I forgot one other reason (in addition to my previous two) why Dee is oftentimes associated with the NECRONOMICON...On the front fly-leaf of the VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT is a letter stating that this text by Roger Bacon had passed into John Dee's hand either through King Rudolf II or by John Dudley. Either way is most probable, and since we do know for a fact that King Rudolf II did possess the text, there is no doubt that Dee was most likely familiar with this cipher manuscript. In addition, Sir Thomas Browne quoted Arthur Dee, son of John Dee as saying that his father while in Bohemia from 1585 to 1588, possessed, "a book...containing nothing but hieroglyphiks; which book his father bestowed much time upon, but I could not hear that he could make it out." So, to those who attribute H.P.L.'s concept of the NECRONOMICON to the VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT--a cipher manuscript that has never been broken, but we do know concerns itself with Botony, Alchemy and Astrology; they often attribute Dee's involvement thusly with the NECRONOMICON...is this not faulty logic? Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: MagickNet To: Azoth 30 Jul 93 21:25:38 Subject: Re: THE NECRONOMICON UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW In a message dated 28 Jul 93 19:51:18, Azoth wrote: A> You're a fine, clever fellow, Mark, and I'd certainly be the last A> Thelemite here to doubt your sincerity, or your motives, but the ideas A> you put forward haven't exactly been overlooked, since they form the - A> entertaining- backdrop to the Hay _Necronomicon_, and virtually all A> the details you present are to be found therein. If your post was a A> precis of the intro to that volume, you did well! };-] It was not my intention to rehash the introduction to Hays version of the NECRONOMICON...in actuallity, I have never read his particular version. I suppose maybe that I should! :) :) I was not attempting to validate any version of the NECRONOMICON--I don't think anyone can successfully do that, to any ones satisfaction, anyways! :) :) What I was intending, was to show that there are extent texts from which H.P.L. may have based his fictitious NECRONOMICON upon. This is not to say that any version of the NECRONOMICON, whether it claims these sources as it's origin or not, is validated by the existence of these texts...that would be most illogical and absurd. THE PICATRIX (GHAYAT AL'HAKIM), THE VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT, and THE BOOK OF THE ESSENCE OF THE BODY OF THE SOUL are all very real, and quite legitimately historical. The first two have been studied extensively by scholars (and in the case of the PICATRIX, even by the Warburg Institute) for decades and even centuries. The Arabic origins of THE PICATRIX are unquestionable...and although THE VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT is still to date, undecipherable, we still know very well of it's origins, it's life, and a good deal of it's contents. It is indeed more than possible that one of these texts were the basis from which H.P.L. gained his INSPIRATION for THE NECRONOMICON. However, there is indeed no relation, other than what may be claimed by Hays, between his version of the NECRONOMICON (or anyothers for that matter) and that of an ancient grimoire of Planetary Magic, or a Plant-Alchemical Cipher Manuscript, or an Esoteric Islamic Ascension Text! I guess, what I was proposing, in essence, is a possible source for H.P.L.'s idea of the NECRONOMICON. Whereas, various versions of the NECRONOMICON base H.P.L. as their primary source (despite what some might claim for their origins!) Let it be known hereforth, that I put no credence in any version of the NECRONOMICON (that I have seen)...nor do I believe in the existence of one. I do believe, however, that there is quite possibly a real magickal grimoire that H.P.L. may have had access to that gave him the inspiration for the NECRONOMICON... ANYWAYS!!! :) :) My intrest in this discussion was purely accademical--not of dis-information or the furtherance of such rumours as would be worthy of the Bavarian Illuminati! :) :) A> The resurgence of interest here concerning the N. is itself a curious A> phenomenon, following a coarsely biennial cycle, Most interesting indeed. Have you attempted to chart out this cycle? Perhaps we might be able to gain some worthy insight into the nature of this Cthonian/Typhonian Current. :) A> Certainly at this late date, some 56 years after the decease of HPL, A> anyone with a modicum of maturity and the brains the Gods gave a A> gopher, ought to realize that: A> 1) _the_ NECRONOMICON was a simple plot device created by HPL, A> and, A> 2) any subsequent publication of _a_ NECRONOMICON is a good-natured A> forgery intended only to entertain its readers, and profit its A> creators. A> The playful confusion of any of (2) with the fictional presence of (1) A> is simply that: playful confusion. In case if there was any confusion, my post was not intented to be a "playful confusion of any of (2) with the fictitional presence of (1)." It was intended as a serious look into at the -SOURCE- of the fictitious (1). If you have any doubt to the validity of THE PICATRIX, or THE VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT of Roger Bacon, be rest assured that they do exist--although both are rare and may have been shrouded in much mystery, rumour, and yes, even used as the supposed reference for fictitional works. I, myself, have in my possession a catalogue listing of over 24 various manuscripts of the PICATRIX LATINUS alone. I have both the German and Latin Texts--I have microfilm copies of Simon Foreman's copy and another being sent to me by the British Museum. I have copies of several folios from THE VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT and many copies of texts written about this text. These texts are accessable to anyone who researches them or orders them...they are not spurious or fictitious writings in the least...To claim they are spurious solely on the basis of a fictitious work using them in it's introduction is illogical--it's like believing that Dee's LIBER LOGOAETH does not exist because it is referred to by many versions of the NECRONOMICON... ...I'm not sure if you are disputing the validity or questionnig the existence of these texts...however, if you are, and in essence are asking for me to supply proof, I could provide you references that should be ample enough to fulfill your skepticism...if that is what you wish... By the way, I did enjoy your expoundation on H.P.L. and his obsessive, unconscious fascination with death, and the essential need for something to explain this unknowable constant of life...Thank you for taking the time to write it. :) Good form, I must say, good show! :) :) Also, by the way, I was told that you might be the person to ask about this, but do you have any information on the Order of the Cubic Stone? Take care, Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Thomas Izaguirre Area: MagickNet To: Rakshasa 30 Jul 93 11:50:56 Subject: Satan, Bugs Bunny, and Me UpdReq > initiation. Bugs Bunny can work just as well as Set as a symbol of > the > enemy of Established Order -- even better in some ways, since he > wins > all his contests with great discordian elan, which Set rarely did. Indeed! Bugs has actually usurped most of the traditional Trickster figures and reigns supreme on the astral, buttressed by constant positive feedback from the popular culture. He showed me some really humorously devastating ways to get rid of various astral nuisances. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 31 Jul 93 11:29:00 Subject: THAT tome UpdReq > P> myself have found some pretty amazing stuff in old Masonic > P> libraries. :-> > if you don't mind me asking, how have you managed to get access to old > masonic libraries? Paladin is a Mason, as I recall. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Joker Area: MagickNet To: All 31 Jul 93 00:34:06 Subject: Hi all UpdReq Hello. I am not a practitioner of Magick. But, I am interested in hearing more about it. Can one of you give me the basics. What is or isn't possible, I see talk about rule of three, things like that. I would love an overview in laymans terms.... -Joker 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Olorin Area: MagickNet To: All 29 Jul 93 00:00:00 Subject: Just a thought on WEAX UpdReq LA> CB> May I suggest that not that the Goddess or God may not LA> CB> be involved. But, rather he is using revenge as a LA> CB> motive that he is actually using the dark side of LA> CB> magick? Demons don't care who they hurt or destruction LA> CB> that results. I have been following this awhile and thought that I should add my two centavos...I have some experience though limited in weatherworking. When I deal with the weather spirits I tend to always get more than I wanted. It seems that I may just be facilitating what was developing in the weather spirit world as a correction of the other problems that needed dealt with. Just added my wieght and an avenue to the phisical world for the manifestation of the spirits will. Sort of makeing easier for them and requireing less effort on their part as they have a phisical focal point reaching for them as they reach for the phisical. Milo had his motivations but the storm gods had theirs. One might have been that the Mississippi delta is disapearing at the rate of 3-30,000 acres a year due to the lack of floods, species are diying off etc. Maybe Milo inadvertantly was available to help the storm spirits reflood the delta and correct the problems caused by the levee system there? The flood hasn't got there yet and maybe we should wait and see if the good does come and not be so limited in our analysis of the result...Milo will work out his problems, But I sense he was more a tool than a perpetrator and also that the results may be positive from an ecological non-humanocentric point of view. Thoughts???? I would like some feedback on the theory. Pax Celtoi... * OLX 2.2 * Never let sleeping dogma lie... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Kettlingurr 31 Jul 93 09:23:40 Subject: Re: Weatherfolk UpdReq Ke> (hm. it would also help my karmic debt to the people in Homestead Ke> ---but that's a separate story altogether.) Sounds intruiging. Wanna tell us? BTW: Texas is in dire need of rain as is the rest of the southwest to a lesser extent. ... It's not NICE to fool with Mother Nature! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718