From: Oberon Area: MagickNet To: Karl Lembke 6 Aug 92 17:33:00 Subject: Fishy? UpdReq KL-->I have a fish on the back of my car that some consider KL-->vaguely satanic. It is, indeed swimming from left to right. KL-->But what the fundies seem to object to the most is that KL-->it has little feet coming out the bottom, and KL-->instead of reading "JESUS" or "IChThYS", it reads "DARWIN". ROTFL! * OLX 2.2 * MacIntosh: Computer With Training Wheels You Can't Remove 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Oberon Area: MagickNet To: Ray Arachelian 6 Aug 92 17:42:00 Subject: Reverse Bigotry?? Rec'd UpdReq RA-->I realize the diversity of ummm... different ethnic groups coming to RA-->Plymouth rock were mostly of the type that believed in the Judeo/Christian RA-->god, but if they went as far enough as to keep the church separate from RA-->state by placing it in the constitution, why did they turn hypocrite put RA-->such a slogan on the money? :-) Actually, I believe (I may be wrong) that the slogan in question was added by the McCarthyites in the 1950's. RA-->Of course the $1 Bill does show the obviously masonic pyramid with RA-->its all-seeing eye... So why the contradictions? George Washington was a Mason - as was Joseph Smith. RA--> * Freddie 1.2 * Do what thou whim shalt be a hole in the head! I love it. // Oberon * OLX 2.2 * All I want to know is: WHY ME? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Oberon Area: MagickNet To: Red E Turok 6 Aug 92 17:48:00 Subject: Sun? Female? UpdReq RET--> Lugh and Bel aren't considered Sun Gods currently? Hmmmm, good thing yo RET-->told me. Who decided that Lugh and Bel were not Sun Gods and what is the RET-->basis of that decision? Hail to the Sun God! He is the Fun God! RA! RA! RA! * OLX 2.2 * The worst thing about censorship is **********. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerda Thunarsson Area: MagickNet To: Paul Hume 9 Aug 92 21:42:00 Subject: Re: Sun? Female? UpdReq PH> Gerda - PH> PH> Baldur "lost the battle of Ragnarok and was taken to Hel"? PH> PH> Ragnarok (indeed, his death presages Ragnarok). PH> PH> Could you cite the source of the mythos you quote? PH> i got this information from a little reference book called _The Viking Gods_, however the original source of this mythos is _The Eddas)_. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerda Thunarsson Area: MagickNet To: Grendel 9 Aug 92 21:44:08 Subject: Sun? Female? UpdReq G> list that is attempting to get the High Rede and others G> online and communicating. G> G> Who might you be since you seem to know me? Your name G> is certainly, well, Troth-like but I don't recognize it. G> G> Wassail, G> Grendel I am a member of Eagles Reaches, as well as a member of the Thunarsson, as in Ymir and Hulda, household. My husband, Vlaad, and I oathed to Eagles Reaches, and renounced the White Christ at the Midsummer Celebration Eagles Reaches held at Jellyston Park. We had our birthing a few weeks back, and we took the name of Thunarsson. I feel it is my real name, as it is the name that I took in front of the Gods. Ymir talks of you quite often in our meetings and discussions of what is going on in the Troth. When I saw your posts here in this net, I just had to ask. Hulda wishes she were able to access this Network, however, for some reason she can not connect with this bbs here. so i tell her all about it. Wassail Gerda 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Karl Lembke Area: MagickNet To: All 9 Aug 92 08:09:10 Subject: Thirteen 1/4 UpdReq For those who expressed interest in the paper I was writing on the number 13, the following three postings contain the entire document. I think they're all short enough to avoid being cut off at the ankles in the nets. ___ X SLMR 1.0 X Keyboard not found... think F1 to continue. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Karl Lembke Area: MagickNet To: All 9 Aug 92 08:09:12 Subject: Thirteen 2/4 UpdReq 13 Part 1/3 Karl Lembke How this document came to be: When we were discussing the Great Seal of the United States, and we were noting the number of times the number 13 popped up. When one of the students asked what the significance of the number was, the teacher gave it to that student as a research assignment. I was designated the official backup and resource, in case one was needed. I wrote up my version of the report, just to have on hand at need, and gave a copy to the teacher. She liked it and told me to prepare to give a presentation to the class in the near future. This was presented in class on August 6, 1992. Fortunately, I had made copies, because as it turned out, everyone wanted one. In class not too long ago, we were discussing the Great Seal of the United States, and noting the repeated occurrence of groups of thirteen. This was cited as evidence that Wiccan ideas had played a part in forming the country. This may or may not be the case, and the ideas may have come from Freemasonry rather than Wicca, but there does seem to have been a fascination with the number thirteen. Why is the number thirteen so sacred in Wicca? The number has quite a few correspondences and meanings. First, there are thirteen lunar months in a year, give or take. (A "year and a day" is thirteen canonical months of 28 days, and one day, which works out to 365 days.) Second, by Qabalistic gematria, thirteen is the numerical value of the Hebrew words for love and unity. Love is the force which draws individuals together into one unified whole (e pluribus unum). Third, the thirteenth path in Qabala, the path connecting the spheres of Kether and Tiphareth, is represented by the Hebrew letter gimel(1), meaning "camel". The camel is an ugly and ungainly beast, and people make fun of it. (Camel: A horse built by a committee.) The beast is also ill-tempered, and spits. With incredible accuracy. But the camel fulfills an essential function in the desert, and quite literally is essential for life among the Bedouins and other nomadic peoples of the desert.(2) Likewise, the United States is founded upon principles that are often awkward and cumbersome. People poke fun at various applications of these principles. ("I don't make up jokes, I just watch the government and report the facts." X Will Rogers.) Other applications of these principles are reviled; people complain about "loopholes" and "technicalities". Yet the same "technicalities" that force people to allow, for instance, the American Nazi Party to hold a parade on Israel's Independence Day, protect the right of a group of Witches to worship in a public park. The same "technicalities" that accused criminals use to "get off" protect you and me from the knock on the door at 3 A.M. on trumped up charges (or no charges until and unless they find something in their search). You get the picture. Funny looking, sometimes to the point of ugliness; awkward and cumbersome; vitally essential. In Pythagorean analysis(3), one way of understanding the meaning of prime numbers (thirteen is the seventh prime, though mathematicians tend not to count one as a prime) is to regard them as transcending by one the composite number immediately preceding them. Thus, thirteen is one greater than twelve, and therefore transcends the concepts inherent in the number twelve. Twelve is often held to represent the completeness of the world. There are twelve signs of the zodiac, representing a balanced structure of aspects. There are twelve solar months in the year, one for each sign. Twelve is the product of four - representing the establishment of a permanent structure, and three - representing the synthesis new truth from two polar opposites. Thus, twelve, the establishment of a structure which reconciles opposites, represents the worldX the realm which is rich enough and large enough to encompass everything under the sun, even if they are opposed to each other. It also represents the world as the realm where entities do not exist in pure states, but must contend with and somehow adjust to the presence of their opposites. Thirteen is the prime which transcends this concept. It contains the resonances of twelve within it, yet there is the unit which remains above and outside the concept. --- X SLMR 1.0 X Life would be easier if we could read the source code. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Karl Lembke Area: MagickNet To: All 9 Aug 92 08:09:14 Subject: Thirteen 3/4 UpdReq 13 Part 2/3 by Karl Lembke Thirteen is the traditional complement of a coven. This worked out to six working couples and one leader. The leader-plus-twelve unit is a very old tradition. We see it in the story of Jesus and the Disciples, King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, Robin Hood and his Merry Men, even Judge and Jury in American and British law. So thirteen is the number of leadership in the world. Yet, it must be understood that this is not leadership by force. Thirteen is the concept of striking out in a new direction and leading by example. In olden days, among Europeans, it was possible to count as high as twelve without taking off one's shoes. Ten fingers, two feet. Thirteen represented uncharted territory, that which was outside the area made safe and secure. This is one reason why thirteen has been regarded with some trepidation. It is a rare individual who can not only strike out into this uncharted territory, but inspire others to follow, thereby being "a light unto the nations". (Among many "primitive" tribes, one was a leader not by strength of arms, but because people chose to follow. The reason they chose to follow is that they had come, through experience, to recognize the merit of the path their leader chose. Any leader who attempted to exert power for the sake of power was liable to wake up one day to find that "his" tribe had declined to follow him any more; in fact had taken a different path and left him. Sometimes, quite literally, voting with their feet.) Numbers can also be analyzed by reducing them in various ways. The digits can be added, for example. In the case of thirteen, we get 1 + 3 = 4. As has been mentioned, four is a stabilizing number. It represents the addition of structure, the codification, of the relationship which materialized in the number three. Four is the number of the elements and the directions. Four is also the number of the sphere of Chesed in Qabala. Chesed, or Mercy, is the middle sphere on the pillar of force. It was formed from the energy overflowing from Binah, the sphere of restriction, and it receives its energy most directly from Chokmah, the sphere of pure force. Chesed is where the restrictions and forms inherited from Binah are animated and made flexible by the controlled use of force. This is where the letter of the law is animated and ennobled by the spirit of the law. (In the now defunct USSR, and in many other places, the letter of the law is a straight jacket. It describes why one can not do what one wants or needs to do. U.S. law and custom has generally tried to find ways to work inside the law to allow personal freedom. This is the Chesedic interpretation of law.) Chesed also represents what is known as "power with". That is, the sort of power that exists because it is shared. The magical image of Chesed, "a wise and kindly king", is followed not because his followers feel they have to, but because they want to. Rather than "might makes right", Chesed rules by the principles of "right makes might". The digits of a number can also be multiplied together. One times three is three. This is the number which represents the synthesis of opposites to arrive at a new truth. When opposites are combined, they do not cancel out. They react in various ways, and in order to maintain each in the presence of the other, it is necessary to discover the hidden truths held in common by each. This is the sphere whose magical weapon is the cauldron of Cerridwen, from which live things emerge dead, and dead things emerge alive. The hidden unity of life and death is a mystery, upon which meditation will bring riches. Three is also the number of the Goddess and the Christian Trinity. The Qabalistic sphere of Binah represents pure form. It is the kind of form we see in a crystal, where all the atoms are arrayed in a strictly regular order. Interestingly enough, there are no perfect crystals in nature. A perfect crystal would have to be infinite in extent, since an edge would represent a break in the crystal structure. But it is the breaks (the edges and facets) which give a crystal its fire. One of the conflicts which had to be resolved in forming the United States was regarding the correct balance of restriction and authority. The Founding Fathers feared central authority, and wished to take steps to ensure that despotic rule would never take over this new land. As a result, a structure was established which fragmented power, in a controlled way. All power was not to reside with one entity, but to be balanced, as evenly as possible, among all the different entities that comprised government. ___ X SLMR 1.0 X My reality check just bounced. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Karl Lembke Area: MagickNet To: All 9 Aug 92 08:09:16 Subject: Thirteen 4/4 UpdReq 13 Part 3/3 by Karl Lembke Thirteen can also be regarded as the sum of various numbers. In Wicca, the five fold salute is actually comprised of eight kisses, since there are two feet, two knees, and two breasts.(5) Eight and five is thirteen. Eight is also important in Wicca, since there are eight paths to the center, eight festivals in the Wheel of the Year, and eight ways of raising power in circle. There are five things one must have before one can practice the magical Art. These are: Intention, preparation, invocation, consecration and purification. There are five elements, each given to one point of the pentagram. Five also represents the four elements plus spirit, or the four directions plus the Holy Center. Interestingly enough, we have derived the numbers 4 and 3 from 13. The product of 4 and 3 is 12, which takes us back to the number which 13 transcends. The sum of 3 and 4 is seven, the number which represents the union of pure spirit and matter. Seven is also a mystical number, since it also represents the relationship and synthesis (3) of the laws of matter and energy (4), and the universe (12 = 3 X 4). 13 is the seventh prime. This essay really only touches the surface of the possible ways of analyzing the number 13. There are many other areas to explore in gematria, including examining the multiples of 13 (YHVH, in Hebrew numeration, works out to 26 = 2 X 13). Pythagorean analysis can be extended by examining all the pairs of numbers which add up to 13. We have examined two out of the six here. Temura is a method in the Qabalah by which the letters in a word or phrase are replaced with others according to specific rules. Obviously, changing the letters in a word will change the numerical total of that word. It can be interesting to examine words which yield a value of 13 after temura. Other useful explorations in gematria include examining pairs of words and phrases whose numerical values differ by 13. This is one area where the possibilities are, quite literally, endless. Blessed be! References: (1) Crowley, Aleister: 777 And Other Qabalistic Writings (2) Reed, Ellen Cannon: The Witch's Qabala (3) Addey, John: Harmonics in Astrology (4) Farrar, Jan and Stewart: A Witches' Bible (5) Ibid. ___ X SLMR 1.0 X No, no, not "Born again"--I said "PORN again"! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Phaedra Area: MagickNet To: lpdott 10 Aug 92 08:10:08 Subject: mind UpdReq On 07-22-92 lpdott wrote to All... l > I figured i might find some sort of theory for my l > problem here.. so forgive me if i am in the wrong place..! l > l > For the past few years, i have heard full conversations from l > people l > talking amongst themselves and sometimes to me. This would l > not upset me if there were actually people around when i l > hear these conversations. It happened on and off pretty l > much all of my life, but when i was 16 the voices stopped. l > Now, at 18, they keep me awake at night sometimes. I have l > waken up some nights to see kindof people in my room, or l > sometimes little holes of light. I am afraid to go to a l > psychologist. I don't wish to be condemned by the l > professional few.!! Has anyone experienced what is l > happening to me? It appears that you are experiencing a phenominon that could be one or more of several things. You could be a natural medium, hearing/seeing non- physical beings. You could be clairavoiant/clairaudiant, seeing/hearing people who are having the conversations at the time you are seeing them. you could have what my Grandmother termed "the sight", aka precognition, seeing/hearing things that will happen in the future. At present, and without knowing more details, that is about all I can tell you. I will STRONGLY SUGGEST that you contact a metaphysical teacher in your area who can help you bring your gifts under control. At present, you are fast becomming controled by them, and this is a BAD situation. I recommend Diane Stein's "Stroking the Python" for more information. Goddess' Blessings...Phaedra. ... OFFLINE 1.39 * The enemies of my enemies are my friends... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jasmine Voorhees Area: MagickNet To: Arthur Rosene 6 Aug 92 16:30:00 Subject: Thirteen UpdReq AR>know what you are getting. For example, these days LSD is AR>often dilluted with strychnine...that stuff can kill you AR>(strychnine), and I don't want to be the guinea pig. Well, heck, wouldn't the way to avoid this be to make your own? The components are legal (if you use organic materials). === * SLMR 2.1a * Do not tell proverbs in the winter; the toads will visit. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jasmine Voorhees Area: MagickNet To: Erin 6 Aug 92 16:47:00 Subject: Re: sun? female? UpdReq ER>question. But it's the noun "sun" in Irish that's feminine, ER>Irish being one of those languages that have the nouns take ER>gender. So, to me at least, it makes sense that a feminine ER>object could have a masculine god to represent it. What I keep Just out of curiosity, what's the gender for the noun 'moon'? === * SLMR 2.1a * God often gives nuts to toothless people. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: James Heaton Area: MagickNet To: Philip Cavanagh 10 Aug 92 20:27:08 Subject: What's up UpdReq >> Well to this date I have studied quite a lot of belief > systems, and find that a lot of them don't help me find > who I truly am. Buddhism sounds like a very cool religion > to study, I found that walking into a local metaphysical > book store (Sri Atman), they had a whole wall full of > books relating to Buddhism (have you read your "Zen Flesh, > Zen Bones" lately? :), but have you read any books written > by the Farrar's, in respects to Witchcraft yet? Or, have > you read "Positive Magic" by Weinstein? >I have read one book by the Farrars. The Witches Bible Complete. I can't say that I've read "Positive Magic" -- Although I DO have a good deal of sympathy in that direction. But speaking of "Paths," have you checked out the I Ching? Hope to hear from you soon! 93! and Shalom James 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: James Heaton Area: MagickNet To: The Shadow 10 Aug 92 20:38:26 Subject: Howdy!!! UpdReq > Greetings. > I would like to converse with you about your interest in > Taoism. Do you do any Taoist Sorcery? Having read the Tao > Te Ching, in fact I read it into a tape so I could just > listen and image it, I was very interested in how to use > these images of nothingness to do magic. > I have been a magician for many years, and I practice constantly. >The only way in which I have used the Tao Te Ching in magic is to follow the advice given -- learn when to act, and learn when to kick back and let things flow. It's still difficult, seeing as most of the time you're doing EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what would me most bennificial to you -- at least that's my experience . However, there is a good book out on Tao Sorcery called Tao Magic (don't ask me who put it out or who the author was). The system, from what I've seen, seems mostly Talismanic/symbolist in form -- mainly a lot of seals and sigils for accomplishing different things. Anyhow, Keep working with the Tao based visualizations, and let me know what happens. 93! and Shalom James 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: William Mclaughlin Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 10 Aug 92 13:02:00 Subject: Gerald Schueler UpdReq JN> * SLMR 2.1a * Help stamp out Gerald Schueler. Howdy Josh! I couldn't help but notice your tagline. Have you a problem with Schueler's stuff? Mind you, I'm not disagreeing with you--my ignorance is too vast--but I'd be interested in any criticisms you have. I've read his first two books and they seemed OK. They shed a bit of light on the stuff in the Golden Dawn stuff and A.C.'s books. I'd be interested in your comments. Take care! Mac ___ X SLMR 2.1a X Move To SPACE. Turn The Earth Into A Park. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lorax Area: MagickNet To: Erin 9 Aug 92 11:22:00 Subject: Re: Sun? Female? UpdReq > (Sorry I have to quote the whole thing. My sysop is coming to dinner > Monday to show me how to break it up.) > Thank you for your very kind offer of relevant sections of the booklet. > But I'm one of those people who has to have the whole thing. :) Would you, > however, let me know where I can obtain it? I'll be happy to send someone a > check for sending it to me when it does appear. The booklet should be ready in 5 weeks. It is transcribed, but we are busy editing, getting the references and booklists together for it, and have to wait on some $$$ to print it. > Didn't know about figures turning red before battle. For us in Texas > that happens after eating jalapenos. ;-) Don't I know that, darlin! I did my college work at UTEP. > However, the point that sticks in my mind is that Lugh turned red from > sunset to dawn *every* evening. This, to me, indicates those solar > attributes we were talking about, rather than battle preparation. Unless Lug > was getting ready to battle the night. Which *still* makes him have solar > attributes. > Incidentally, I've been reading this in Maire MacNeill's _The Festival > of Lughnasa_. I can hunt it up for you and give you page numbers if you > like. Please do. Remember that more recent scholars, like Proinsias MacCana really question the solar association. The chief god of the Gauls was prob. Lugh. The Romans equated him with Mercury, NOT Apollo. Surely that counts for something? The Irish saw Lugh as Samildnach, the Many-Skilled. He is always associated with Rosmerta, an Earth-Goddess. In the meantime, to you and your wife, Lughnasa sona dibh. (A little > late, but I'm trying to use my baby Irish wherever I can.) > Erin -- SPEED 1.10 [NR]: Livin Life in the center lane @ 2400 baud... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lorax Area: MagickNet To: Erin 9 Aug 92 12:10:00 Subject: Re: Sun? Female? 1/2 UpdReq Quoth Mary MacNeill: vol. 1 pg. 410: Festival of Lughnasa "Another explanation of the duel of the gods may occur to those who note the contrast of lightness and darkness in the names of the opponents, Crom the black and Lugh, whose name suggests light, and whose double, Fionn, was fair. There is also Donn, the Dark One, who governed crops and weather about Knockfeerina and on the west coast of Clare. But a struggle between light and darkness could affect the harvest only as sunny weather versus gloomy weather and these conditions are not dramatized in the legends. Crom Dubh or Donn unites characteristics of both Pluto and Zeus. He may be dark and dwell underground, but he also lives on heights and controls the weather. Because Lugh is clever, and skillful, and tricks Crom Dubh out of his posessions, it might be argued that Lugh represents intellect, triumphing over stubborn nature. But this will not do either. Nothing we know of Crom Dubh suggests that he represents the wilderness. On the contrary, he appears to be a farmer's god, with the farmer's concern for livestock and crops and the farmer's reluctance to part with his goods." pg. 415: "In the legends of the harvest giver, and weather ruler, we find explicit testimonies from popular tradition to Crom Dubh's functions--and Donn's also, who reigned at 2 Lughnasa sites. And finally, we have the proverbial saying from Bally Croy about Lugh and Balor. The saying makes Lugh the son of Balor, not his grandson, and unites them both as storm gods. " pg 416: "To sum up, the dominant theme of Lughnasa is the struggle between 2 gods, one of whom, Crom Dubh, is a hill dweller, owner of a bull and granery, corn-bringer and cultivator, feastgiver, ruler of the elements, owner of a baleful light, a posessor and conservor of his posessions. Lugh (St. Patrick in the legends, and Jack the Tinkard in the Cornish Tale), is a newcomer, a traveler, clever, with superior power or skill, able to enlist the help of a giant, owner of a marvelous horse, a disposessor, and annexer of the others goods for his followers, a winner of meat and corn. The victory involves disposession, a transfer of goods, and the confinement of the defeated in a narrow place. Sometimes the struggle is for posession of a woman. Is she the corn? The name Eithne (kernel or grain) suggests that she was so originally. .... It is particularly appropriate to find that the folk legends parallel closely the tale of Balor and Lugh and that the disclose the original myth in the saga of Midir Etain, and Eochaid. The folk legends, it may be claimed, add a precision to the old myths in that they are clearly connected to the old festival and a directness in the simplicty of their plots and personae. They also help to make clearer the relationship between our old myths and Celtic religion. Correspondences can be seen to exist between the legend types of the festival, and the figures of the Gaulish deities: the god with the bull, the god with the cornucopia, the god killing the serpent, the cavalier god and the head just above ground, the god with the wheel, the god accompanied by a boy, the seated god and goddess, and the trio of goddesses. " MacNeill associates Lughnasa on pg.419 with a movable =lunar= feast, rather than a solar date. She also says, on 421: "On the whole it may be said that rain on the festival day was regarded as a manifestation of the god and therefore good (even if sometimes too much of a good thing)." and she associates the god of the day with thunder. The "waxing and waning" aspect sounds to me more like Gawain. I don't recall ever seeing this in connection with Lugh, and neither does Airmid. We may have missed it. Can you provide a reference? The Matthews and Marian Green note in The Grail Seeker's Companion (and we've seen this in other places too): "Gawain has indeed long been recognized by his flaming red hair and his strength that waxes and wanes around the middle of the day." Lastly, MacNeill reiterates the Romans' identification of Lugh with Mercury and specifically not Apollo: pg 429: Lugh, the winner of the harvest in Ireland, may be identified confidently with the Gaulish god whom Caesar called Mercury, as D'Arbois de Jubainville suggested over seventy years ago. The identification, based on the similarity between Lugh's epithet "samilda'nach" and Caesar's description of the Gaulish Mercury as inventor of all the arts, is strengthened by the character of the Lughnasa legends, which recalls Greek Hermes, of whom Roman Mercury is but a reflection. Hermes, like Lugh, was a gifted child, was cunning from birth, lucky, a traveller, [ Continued In Next Message... ] -- SPEED 1.10 [NR]: SPEED READ does everything but think up new taglines! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lorax Area: MagickNet To: Erin 9 Aug 92 12:10:00 Subject: Re: Sun? Female? 2/2 UpdReq [ ...Continued From Previous Message ] and the impudent thief of his brother Apollo's cattle. In Irish legend the booty (i.e. the sustaining food) was won by the young god but the power to produce it was the elder god's. The purpose of the festival, in fact, was to win the harvest and to extort from the old god such an assurance as the aged Mac Creiche gave: I will leave corn and milk in your land and mast in your woods and increase in your soil." So you see, although Lugh may have =some= attributes that =might= be considered solar, this does NOT make him a solar God. In fact, MacNeill states explicitly her belief that Lugh is a storm god! So what we're looking at here may in fact be more of an equivalent to Thor than to Apollo. -- SPEED 1.10 [NR]: SPEED READ does everything but think up new taglines! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: MagickNet To: Lorax 9 Aug 92 21:51:00 Subject: Sun? Female? 2/2 UpdReq > So you see, although Lugh may have =some= attributes that =might= be > considered solar, this does NOT make him a solar God. In fact, MacNeill > states explicitly her belief that Lugh is a storm god! So what we're > looking at here may in fact be more of an equivalent to Thor than to > Apollo. Yeah Thor!! =) -= Grendel =- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718