From: Karl Lembke Area: MagickNet To: Callistra Moonshadow 11 Jul 92 07:11:14 Subject: Test UpdReq CM>This is a test to see if the echo run is working on this end. CM>Blessed Be. CM>Cally Received in Tujunga, CA. ___ X SLMR 1.0 X No, no, not "Born again"--I said "PORN again"! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Taliesin Area: MagickNet To: Karl Lembke 11 Jul 92 22:28:00 Subject: Thirteen UpdReq PG> On 06-26-92 Karl Lembke wrote to All... PG> KL> I am looking for information on the magical and other significance PG> KL> of the number thirteen. I have some references at home, and a few PG> KL> ideas, but any input would be appreciated. PG> KL> ___ PG> KL> X SLMR 1.0 X "The Rite Stuff" PG> KL> PG> KL> --- Maximus 2.00 PG> KL> * Origin: Mysteria * Be ye mystic * 818-353-8891 (1:102/943) From what little I know of numerology (and I *DO* mean "LITTLE"!!!), you might also look up the significance of the number 4. I understand that multi-digit numbers are often broken down into their componant numerals (i.e. 13=>1+3), and the result becomes a sort of "core significator", if you will. Now, what does 4 relate to? Haven't the foggiest...! ;) --Tal * SLMR 2.0 #2266 * Reality...it's what you make of it. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ian Kesser Area: MagickNet To: Peter Giordano 11 Jul 92 17:57:00 Subject: Hell Rec'd UpdReq Quoth PG: (Qouthing Someone, Qouthing Me): PG> > IK> If "God" were to totally remove "his presence" from us, we PG> > would be in an PG> > IK>eternal Hell not of outside stimuli, such as fire and PG> > brimstone, that one PG> > IK>could grow accustomed to, but a total loss of the Divine PG> > within, thus the PG> > IK>"Fire that burns but does not consume", the pain unabated and PG> > eternal of a PG> > IK>spiritual nature. PG> > No, but the usual 'fire and brimstone with a side of PG> > pitchforks' most likely is. Although my concept of the PG> > Diety encompasses a good deal more than the Xtian patriarchal PG> > image of 'God', I too would find the lack of Diety presence to PG> be a pretty 'Hell'ish thing. PG> But if God is within us and without us, then how can you remove PG> him? You'd have to remove the whole universe. I don't care how PG> powerful the nukes get, they won't get powerful enough to do that. PG> Point 1: This isn't my concept, it's my sisters (New style BAC), but we've had enough discussions about it for me to be able to discuss it. Point 2: The point is NOT that any external force would drive "God" out, but that, as Michelle says, "God would turn his face away from you, removing Himself." Hope that clears it up, Ian MMST 2.09 UnRegistered : Count = 3. Count <>2. Count<>4. Way_Out=5. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ian Kesser Area: MagickNet To: Peter Giordano 11 Jul 92 18:10:00 Subject: Thirteen Rec'd UpdReq Qouth Peter Giordano: (Qouthing Karl Lembke): PG> > I am looking for information on the magical and other PG> > significance of the number thirteen. I have some references at PG> > home, and a few ideas, but any input would be appreciated. PG> Well, a witch's coven alway's has a maximum of 13 members, and PG> Christ had 12 apostles. 1 and 12 make 13. Beyond that, I'd be PG> just as interested to find out about this as you would Thirteen. There are a number of "special" things about that number. 1> In Mathematics, 13 is a Prime number. Not unique, but a special distinction. 2> In Liber 777, Aleister Crowley ascribes to the number 13 the properties of "Highest Feminine unity; easily transformed to secondary masculine ideas by any male component; or, the unity resulting from love." Let's look at that, shall we? First off, the Feminine symbol is the Moon. In one year, I do believe there are approximately thirteen lunar cycles. If you make the Year a symbol of Unity (the cycle of seasons comes around, etc.), then 13 is quite definately unity. Second: The Unity Resulting from Love. Coven members do (or should :)) love each other, as did Jesus and his apostles. 13 individuals make unity. I believe the reason the Christians make it an "unlucky" number is simply because 12 people in Jesus's coven stayed true, while one, Judas, betrayed them. (Don't get me started on MY beliefs about Judas!) 3> In the Tarot, Key 13 is Death. BUT, as most Tarot people could tell you, it usually signifies not Death but change, the end of one cycle and the beginning of another (possibly the Lunar motif again? Hmmm). Any other thoughts? MMST 2.09 UnRegistered : Count = 3. Count <>2. Count<>4. Way_Out=5. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: John Gialuco Area: MagickNet To: Lorax 13 Jul 92 18:49:50 Subject: You experience UpdReq Hello again, It really is your experience that you are telling me about and you have created your experience and observations for yourself. I haven,t seen what you have experienced and if I did I would tell you. Listen we are exploring new areas of consciousness, identity, love, cooperation with others and having fun doing it. Channeling is my route, for you it isn't. I can't tell you that your experience and 'world view' is off - it serves you and your needs and provides you a balance in this moving world. We love ourselves toward an integrety and pride in our efforts and exploration in being a type of mental physicist. We love nature and are trying to respect it in ways our heritage has not yet told us about. All life is sacred and alive. All life is about freedom of the individual, among many other things. Thru channeling I use my palette of creativity and joy. Channeling provides the canvas. It may come to a time that I will be jaded as i hear you to be about this process of communion with spirit. Should this happen I hope to be graceful in acknowledging an appreciation to 'whomever' has been involved with channeling and realize that I have grown beyond the point of exploring my existence thru channeling. I am a carpenter, plumber, and other trades for 17 years. Art is an avocation and I have traveled the world many times in the last 20 years (age 49) I have been working in a bblack/spanish ghetto for 12 years. I think I know enough about reality to trust myself in my explorations, be it thru channeling or tossing dice or reading any great tomb of wisdom. This is my way. Be in peace. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718