From: Wulfrich Area: MagickNet To: All 2 Jun 92 15:58:26 Subject: THE CRUCIBLE Does anyone out there know if THE CRUCIBLE, a sex-magic 'zine published in Minnesota by an herbalist whose name eludes me, is still alive? And if anyone out there has had any experience using the Robin Wood tarot deck, I'd be interested in hearing your reactions, as I know the artist (too well to use it myself, I'm afraid). \/\/ulfrich 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mike Pfeiffer Area: MagickNet To: William Mclaughlin 31 May 92 20:26:24 Subject: Re: FUCK YOU? YOU SUCK? WHAT Point well taken. It's one of those deals where he pissed me off to such a degree that reaso#[Z^f7n excu{bd%@wp`?To v >e4 lets try again. Reasoned arguments were not gonna reach this guy, and he angered me to the point that my inflammatory rhetoric gland kicked in. I assumed him to be christian because he attacked us all (not just thelemites by name) as Satanists - and anyone who believes in the Satan of the Bible gets labeled in my eyes as Xtian. A form of prejudice? Perhaps so. Accurate? Usually. I for one am tired of having only reason to use against those whose ignorance and approach to the problem omits rational analysis. I therefore rant and spew right back at him, in the futile attempt of trying to discredit rabid screaming as an intellectual process. i will almost certainly failo in this, but fuck him, I feel better. Besides, I think what you label as bigotry on my end is simply my offensive phraseology of a more or less accurate interpretation of the data. But yes, it is true, I can be just as unreasonable as any human. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tim Maroney Area: MagickNet To: Pen's Beast 30 May 92 12:40:14 Subject: RE: Really!!?? In a message to Merlin written on Thursday, May 28, 1992 at 21:24:02, Pen'S Beast writes: PB> ME>I warn you I'm very skeptical but I do have an open PB> ME>mind so.... hope to hear from you. PB> Skeptical, but with an open mind...HUH??? Skeptics, by definition, have an open mind. They consider each issue and consider it on its own merits. believers, on the other hand, do not have open minds -- being believers, they are unwilling to consider the prospect that their beliefs are wrong. Their minds are closed. There are, of course, some people who claim to be "skeptics" who do not deserve the label, and who would more correctly be classified as "believers". Timbo 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Bobby Meizer Area: MagickNet To: Tim Maroney 30 May 92 23:56:28 Subject: RE: Really!!?? In a message to Pen'S Beast written on Saturday, May 30, 1992 at 12:40:14, Tim Maroney writes: TM> There are, of course, some people who claim to be "skeptics" who do not TM> deserve the label, and who would more correctly be classified as TM> "believers". Of course almost everyone believes in some things which are unproven, and "believers" are usually skeptical about something (at worst, only things which contradict their beliefs!). 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: William Mclaughlin Area: MagickNet To: Morgana 2 Jun 92 01:49:02 Subject: Re: Fuck You? You Suck? MO>not ALL pagans are reverse-bigots, but i agree that we often see far too MO>much of it on the echoes...don't give up, the rest of us ARE out here! Howdy Morgana! I know that we aren't all bigots, but I feel that the best way to fight the intolerance of both Christians and mainstreamers is by showing them that we're better than our slanderers. I hope my post didn't give the impression that I tar all Paganfolk with the same brush. After all, I'm one of 'em! Keep smilin'! Mac ___ X SLMR 2.0 X I'm So Old, I Fart Dust 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: William Mclaughlin Area: MagickNet To: John Shaman 2 Jun 92 01:58:04 Subject: No Tests Thanks for the reply. While I agree that there are likely a lot of fakes out there, I have no problem accepting the possibility that some of them are genuine. I think you hit on the crux of my problem with it with this remark: JS>Even if the person is sincere, who or what is being "channeled?" Maybe they're contacting a non-physical entity, but who's to say whether or not the entity is an idiot. As I said, the validity of channeled information should be determined according to its merit, not its origin. Mac ___ X SLMR 2.0 X All Rites Reversed - Prosecutors Will Be Transgressicated 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: William Mclaughlin Area: MagickNet To: Mike Pfeiffer 2 Jun 92 02:31:06 Subject: Re: FUCK YOU? YOU SUCK? MP>Reasoned arguments were not gonna reach this guy... How do you know? You didn't try. MP>- and anyone who believes in the Satan of the Bible gets MP>labeled in my eyes as Xtian. A form of prejudice? Perhaps MP>so. Accurate? Usually. Who said he believed in Satan? He suggested that =we did=, not he. He could just as well have been some guy who's seen one too many GERALDO specials. You are certainly correct in saying that he is ignorant, but the cure for ignorance is =knowledge=, not insults. Who knows? A more judicious response might've sent him away with a new respect for Paganfolk. However unlikely that may be, the possibility would've been greater than zero. With only vitriolic replies, the chances are exactly zero. Besides, I was attempting to point out the knee-jerk assumptions that led to your reply. The minute you felt some hostility aimed at you (in spite of the fact that the content of that hostility was so scant as to allow no conclusions about the sender's philosophical views, save one), you projected the entire Pagan vs. Christian conflict on the sender. The point of all this isn't to "dump on you", but to illustrate that even the most open-minded, sensitive, intelligent folks I know: Paganfolk, must be careful not to let the "battle" turn us into what we're "fighting". The way to bigotry is a slippery slope. We "win" the "fight" by demonstrating that we're better than them, not by adopting their tactics. As the old saying goes, "You don't convince =anybody= of =anything= by standing toe-to-toe with him and calling him a motherfucker." Mac ___ X SLMR 2.0 X Don't Let THEM Imminentize the Eschaton!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mandy Vivian Area: MagickNet To: Sysop 24 May 92 10:14:00 Subject: Re: EVIL, Maybe not??? SS> MV> Who is to say that we arn't on hell right now????? SS> Interesting idea, (one of which I've considered many times.) SS> In fact, I really hope I'm not reincarnated. I think it SS> would be "Hell" to have to come back here and do this all SS> over again, especially the way things are going. But if I SS> could come back in another part of the universe, to a world SS> that wasn't quite as screwed up as this one......well, maybe SS> that would be more like Purgatory. SS> Now that is true, I really don't want to have to come back here.But the purgatory idea is one I hadn't thought of,Is there just one or several?It's so annoying when you don't now the answers!! Mind Boggling Madness Take care, Mandy. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mandy Vivian Area: MagickNet To: Pagan Federation (UK) 24 May 92 11:49:00 Subject: Re: EVIL, Maybe not??? P(> MV> Who is to say that we arn't on hell right now????? P(> Well if this is hell I'm enjoying it! Speak for yourself!!!! I would enjoy it if it wern't for the fact that money and power rule the world.I would enjoy it if I knew that people in the world wern't starving to death. I would enjoy it if it wern't for the fact that people were destroying the planet. I'm glad you enjoy it..Someone has too!!!! No, I'm not getting at you,I'm getting at society.This world, as i believe it would be a lot better place if we didn't have to live at the mercy of banks and the government.Let's face it we can't survive without money and as I have NOT a penny to my name I sould be dead.I should be alot happier if i was ble to live off the land. Still, as i said i'm glad your enjoying it.I would to if I had the means to,that's why I believe that we are alot nearer living in Hell than in Heaven. Take care, Mandy. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: William Mclaughlin Area: MagickNet To: Merlin 2 Jun 92 13:31:00 Subject: Re: REALLY!!?? ME> I do not accuse you of the following but It seems to be my observation that ME>some practitioners of magik seem to like to perform rituals ME>that give them an excuse to screw some women. I've talked ME>to some people who are quite certain that "you know he's ME>only doing it as an excuse to scrog". Have you ever ME>experianced or observed this?? I have, alas. Like all non-mainstream movements, we have a tendency to draw our share of weirdies and hangers on. It was no different in the '60s. For every person honestly committed to the counterculture, there were ten or twenty who were just making the scene. Most of these were just looking to gain status in group where getting laid was fairly easy. Mac ___ X SLMR 2.0 X Lick Here *** You May Be One Of The LUCKY 25!!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: MagickNet To: Mike Pfeiffer 1 Jun 92 09:20:06 Subject: Re: FUCK YOU? YOU S... In a lo-rez cyberspace object, Mike Pfeiffer @1:103/175 texuralized the following thoughts onto the reality grid of my fav VR co-ordinates: MP> Let him rant! I'd be much happier shredding his paranoid MP> belief system than being shielded from it. Perhaps a special MP> sub? No, it's O.K., they tend not to last very long, since most often they want a flame war, and what they get is intellegent conversation...and they usually cannot handle that! ttyl Farrell Moderator. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: MagickNet To: Philip Cavanagh 1 Jun 92 09:30:48 Subject: ASCORDIA CENTER In a lo-rez cyberspace object, Philip Cavanagh @1:340/32 texuralized the following thoughts onto the reality grid of my fav VR co-ordinates: PC> Greetings Farrell! PC> FM>> I have to admit, I have yet to see an FM>> elemental posting a msg here...unless you consider FM>> the msgs that are garbled...:-) PC> PC> Ummm... excuse me? I'm lost in Cyberspace! Go back to internet address 18.72.1.58, and request a FAQ! :-) ttyl Farrell 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718