From: Barak Area: MagickNet To: Nick Frost 25 Mar 92 17:19:38 Subject: Re: SHEYA UpdReq In response to your question: Yes, I thought that you might be familiar with the language of the Caballa, and used it to illustrate what might have - and often does - take much longer without the use of such existing models. I believe that the important thing to remember is that these are all models - and that they are all models of essentially the same thing. As for people who are new to Magick, I find that - if they are sincere -they have less difficulty in grasping the concepts, because they are not looking through the filters of their previous KNOWLEDGE, as it were. (Daath has a way of being both bridge and blockade - simultaneously. However, I'm not entirely sure that I understand what you mean by presenting Magick as an accomplished system. LVX NOX - Barak /s 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Barak Area: MagickNet To: Singh Khanna 25 Mar 92 17:30:58 Subject: Magic(k) UpdReq and from the peanut gallery: "Magick is the intentional process of Self Transformation." How much ground that covers rather depends upon your personal definition of "Self." - Barak /s 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Talin Nightshadow Area: MagickNet To: Gwion Bach 27 Mar 92 17:14:02 Subject: Tinsel UpdReq GB>This is what I was trying to say. Making love does not have to envolve sex. GB>I also thought I mentioned in an earlier post that I don't GB>view sex as bad or evil. I view it as a power, a power to GB>be treated with respect. I have my feelings about this and GB>I express them. They are definately not ones of my GB>religion only an alternative that some choose, I know I do. GB> The basis if this message is that I am not arguing with GB>anyone or thing except that one does not need the actual GB>act of sex to make love. If you do not understand of if GB>anyone here does not understand, I will gladly explain GB>further. Blessed be. I don't completely understand the concept of making love without involving sex... it seems to me to be a contradiction in terms. I realise that sex has power, and that there is more power in it when it is done with someone for whom you truly care (ie love or Love as the case may be) It certainly should be respected... Could you perhaps expound on this line of thought? It intrigues me! Vent a tes Ailes, Talin ___ X SLMR 2.1 X My reality check just bounced. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Talin Nightshadow Area: MagickNet To: Moon Puppy 27 Mar 92 17:33:04 Subject: Parapsychics... and magi UpdReq MP> Since I have little psychic skill but am an avid collector of MP>knowledge about these skills I can give you an outsider's MP>advice. 1) Know thy self. When dealing with MP>telepathy/empathy it is important to know who you are and MP>what you are feeling. Know this and you won't confuse what MP>your talent tells you and what you want to experience. 2) I'm not sure I understand this completely... would you mind clarifying "what your Talent tells you and what you want to experience"? If I'm interpreting it correctly then it has something to do with controlling Talents... precogs and such. MP>Verbalize. When dealing with other people, talk to them and MP>listen to them. example, an empathic friend of mine *knew* MP>I hated him and agonized about it for months, complaining MP>to everyone.. a mutual friend told him to shut up and stop MP>doing an obnoxious habit around me, the undying hatered MP>disappeared. He could have asked me if something was I have a group of friends here who are all Talented, and we often talk and try to work together on problems and methods and such... good advice.. MP>bothering me. 3) Keep records and check on experiences of MP>clairvoyence and precognition. A simple diary and visiting MP>the place of the vision is good practice. Also, if you have MP>an unpleasent prediction, work on changing the future so it MP>doesn't happen. Good idea... I don't keep a dream diary, or such, but I have been thinking about doing so for a while. And it's also good to realise that precog isn't a future set in stone, but rather the most likely possiblity at the moment. MP>> Also.. if there are any good books on psychic experiences or MP>>instructional material (I haven't found any) MP> I haven't found any good books on the subject MP>either, haven't looked too hard tho. Others have recommended some for me... how have you come about your knowledge?? Especially if you're not a strong Talent (I've learned most of what I know through experimentation and practise) MP>> I've also been wondering how magick (particularly Wicca and ceremonial MP>>magick) fits in with paranormal abilities. MP> I lump it all together and call it a skill that can be developed in MP>everyone and certain people have an aptitude for certain MP>abilities: natural talents. I agree with that... Talents aren't necessary for magick but they help. Aptitude is a good term. MP> Keep an open mind but not so open your brains fall out. How open would *that* be! :> Thanx for your input... if you've anything else to add, I'd be more than happy to read it. Vent a tes Ailes, Talin ___ X SLMR 2.1 X My reality check just bounced. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Singh Khanna Area: MagickNet To: Paul Hume 26 Mar 92 23:18:02 Subject: Aesthetic Preference UpdReq Salutations Paul! >>This pissing and moaning about the crucifix seems to me to >>miss an essential point. >>Had Christ been run down by your '57 Chevy in a pointless >>accident, then wearing an icon of a '57 Chevy would indeed be >>equally pointless. I understand the meaning of the willing sacrifice, but I don't feel that it changes the nature of the choice of symbology. Of course, this is purely a matter of personal aesthetic tastes, my own, which find the Catholic Church's choice of the crucifix to be repugnant. Perhaps there are many who find it apt, or in some fashion appealing. I simply do not. Hand in glove, I would at the same time not try to stop someone from using a cruciform icon, it's their choice, their aesthetic sensibilities which are apparently more rugged than my own... . >>However, Christians believe that Godhead accepted the flesh (and >>its joys and woes) and shared the experience of death, thus >>sealing its compact with humanity. That is central to the mythos >>of Christ. I understand this as well, however, one of the quickest ways to provoke a heated argument with a Christian is to state that the Christ knew lust, jealousy, hatred, et al.! Did you see the move, THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST? Very good movie, by the by. Always, -The Image 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pagan Federation (UK) Area: MagickNet To: Danny Harris 25 Mar 92 02:29:00 Subject: Re: Belief and church UpdReq DH> I agrre a balance between the two is the best policy but Masculine DH> force and feminine form? I am not sure I understand what you are DH> saying there. Are you saying men are Forcefull and women are all form DH> and grace or are you saying that all people have both aspects in them DH> and that most of todays christan chuches cater to the more forcefull DH> aspect? DH> BB DH> Danny Why do you make the assumption masculine = men, feminine = women? I know many men who would describe themselves as feminine and many women who would describe themselves as masculine. A healthy personality contains a mixture of both aspects, and each person's balance point will be at a different place (i.e., dead centre between m & f isn't what I mean). ... Pagan Federation - desdrw@cix.compulink.co.uk 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pagan Federation (UK) Area: MagickNet To: Black Dog 25 Mar 92 02:57:00 Subject: Re: religious freedom etc. UpdReq I'm afraid that in the UK there have been a number of genuine Pagans who have had their children removed by the authorities because of their beliefs. So far in all of these cases we (the Pagan Federation) know about, when the cases have come to court, the families have been reunited and a number of judgements are now on record stating that practicing Paganism is at best a valid religion to at worst no more harmful than any other faith. We'd like to think that these cases have beeen helped at least in part by our- selves, the Sorcerer's Apprentice and of course the parents of the children. There have been no cases in the UK where ritual abuse has been attributed to Pagans or Witches. However, a case in Manchester is currently investigating the murder of a 20 year old by a lay Muslim "holy man" who tortured her and eventually bludgeonned her to death as part of a ritual exorcism. ... Pagan Federation - desdrw@cix.compulink.co.uk 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pagan Federation (UK) Area: MagickNet To: Bobby Meizer 25 Mar 92 03:03:02 Subject: RE: religious freedom etc. UpdReq The Temple of Psychic Youth, ISN'T a religious group, Genesis P Orrige (the leader) has declaired he has no belief in metaphysical things, but believes that human potential can be enhanced by ritualistic sex and is VERY VERY much into S&M. A video (10 years old and available publicly) was used in a TV show here to illustrate "satanic abuse" many of our newspapers, but especially the Mail on Sunday (a right wing tabloid) have completely discredited the program and have proved the whole thing to be a fraud. For the full story you need the Mail on Sunday for the last 4 weeks, no I haven't time to type and upload the articles. ... Pagan Federation - desdrw@cix.compulink.co.uk 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steve Brown Area: MagickNet To: Drow 26 Mar 92 20:17:00 Subject: Re: religious freedom etc. UpdReq * In a message originally to Markie Chao, Drow said: DD > Hey Markie! DD > * Thus spake Markie Chao unto All regarding religious DD > freedom etc.: DD > MC> Has everyone heard what is going on in England? There is a special DD > MC> `Satanic Crimes' division recently set up in the Leeds area and DD > MC> running around raiding occult groups. Some well known groups over DD > MC> there have shut down correspondence and are keeping a low profile, DD > MC> they don't have our constitution and it looks like the burning times DD > MC> are surfacing again. :( Thats absolutely a violation of our rights, they call the West a Free area ( I was going to say country but that'd be wrong ). Whats on the Agenda next, burning at the stakes as a Sunday Spectacular, just because we don't follow an 'organised' religion. This attitude of people in high places really makes me cross. Steve Brown. P.S. I don't care who knows about beliefs, if they don;t like it they can damn well burn me at the stake. I hope they feel better for it. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Black Dog Area: MagickNet To: Pagan Federation (UK) 26 Mar 92 00:46:00 Subject: Re: religious freedom etc. UpdReq Hi there, Thanks for your informative message, the bit below was new to me, >I'm afraid that in the UK there have been a number of genuine >Pagans who have had their children removed by the authorities >because of their beliefs. Is this still happening? As you stated in another message, the press have not been slow to point out that most of this stuff is blatant propaganda, especially the daily and sunday mail. >have come to court, the families have been reunited. Rightly so. No mention of compensation, i suppose? > and a number of judgements are now on record stating that >practicing Paganism is at best a valid religion to at worst >no more harmful than any other faith. have you access to these? They would make superb presents for several people i know :-) No, seriously, if you could "hand" them on, i`d be delighted to display them in the tower. Chill! BD 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Static Area: MagickNet To: Shadow Hawk 28 Mar 92 08:43:00 Subject: Re: demon-shape UpdReq Your response seems to be the consensus so far and I appreciate the response. I am trying to get across the notion that this being may be registered (as it were) in some book or reference I do not have. I have referenced 777, the Scented Garden, Mathers's "Qliphoth of the Qabala" and other sources; the point is that these references are not complete and of course some are suspect whether it be the inimitable Crowley or Mathers or whoever is the author. Once I have reviewed the literature, I will entertain the Edward Morbius/ID Monster hypothesis. I suspect it might be close to the mark, but I want to be a good scholar.&& s 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tim Maroney Area: MagickNet To: Gerald Del Campo 26 Mar 92 11:27:08 Subject: RE: Re: religious freedom et UpdReq You ought to have informed your correspondent that the first account of the incident, written by Bill Heidrick, was later found to contain quite a few factual errors. Is there a current fact-checked canonical account, I wonder? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: John Shaman Area: MagickNet To: John Youril 28 Mar 92 15:14:48 Subject: QWK download UpdReq My download of today's messages was contaminated in such a way that I had to use pkzipfix. Unfortunately, none of the messages survived the fixing. Is there any way to reset my account so that I could download them again? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: MagickNet To: Talin Nightshadow 28 Mar 92 15:24:42 Subject: Re: Christian Magick UpdReq In a message dated 25 Mar 92 16:58:12, Talin Nightshadow wrote: GDC>>I'd also like to know of any groups of Magicians.... GDC>Where are you? What city and state? TN> Right now I'm a boarding senior at McCallie School in TN> Chattanooga, TN> TN. But next year I will probably be attending college at Williams TN> College in Williamstown, MA. Well, in Tennessee there is Uraeus Hadit Camp (OTO) Their mailing address is: Uraeus Hadit Camp PO Box 280273 Memphis, TN 38168 and in Massqchusetts: Apotheosis Camp (OTO) RR 1 Box 11 South Road Ashby, MA 01431 and Knights Templar Camp (OTO) 116 Hermon St Winthrop, MA 02152 You may find what you are looking for there. TN>Thanks! Don't mention it :) TN> Blessed Be. And 93. Gerald 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: MagickNet To: Farrell Mcgovern 28 Mar 92 15:49:42 Subject: Re: Magic(k) UpdReq In a message dated 24 Mar 92 14:30:30, Farrell Mcgovern wrote: FM> I would prefer "Bohemian Rhapsody"...or..."Bicycle/Fat Bottomed FM> Girls"! FM> ttyl FM> Farrell Keeping with the subject; wouldn't "Death on Two Legs" be more appropriate? ]>:-) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: MagickNet To: Jonathon 28 Mar 92 15:51:42 Subject: Re: Magic(k) UpdReq In a message dated 24 Mar 92 21:03:32, Jonathon wrote: J> quoting singh khanna to all SK>SK> What do you think Magick is? In any and all forms, could you SK> Here's the collation so far; J> << ommited 20 definitions >> J> & for my $0.93 J> magick is myth J> magick is reality J> 93 J> jonathon Didn't some one also say that Magick was applied Mythology? How you been Jon. Long time no talk to. :) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: David Hartis Area: MagickNet To: Markie Chao 29 Mar 92 06:48:02 Subject: Chaossphere Rec'd UpdReq MC> SM> P.S. Have U considered transcribing your book to MC> SM> computer at some stage? MC> MC> Never crossed my mind. Got anything against reading regular MC> books? Typing the whole thing over again is a frightening MC> prospect. Well, there are hand scanners availble...(grin) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: MagickNet To: Barak 28 Mar 92 19:41:00 Subject: Re: Magic(k) UpdReq I'm saving and perusing your posts to me on Sheya. Pray continue (if you remember where you left off). I'll prob'ly have some questions after it's sunk in some... ... The centipede that thinks about his feet, stumbles. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: MagickNet To: David Hartis 30 Mar 92 19:08:02 Subject: Chaossphere Sent UpdReq DH> Well, there are hand scanners availble...(grin) I just got a new car and took an extended trip to London so cash is a little scarce...wanna lend me yours? (Bigger Grin) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718