From: Desert Boy Area: ENOCHIAN To: Ar Aakhu-t 29 Jul 94 00:33:46 Subject: Looking for training UpdReq Absolutely! That would be most welcome. Magic has always interested me, not the rabbit in the hat gags either, the true magic. Of wizards, warlocks, and witches. Well, fair thee well. Peace to thy soul, DB 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Josh Norton 29 Jul 94 17:26:00 Subject: enochian 101 UpdReq Hi Josh! Fi> Within the hierarchy of Enochian spirits, do you hold with the idea Fi> that it is desired to have the higher ups cooperation in Fi> controlling the spirits on the lower end of the hierarchy? JN> To my mind, the "higher" names to which an angel responds serve JN> several purposes: JN> Does that answer your question? Sure does - and in spades. A very well written reply. Thanks! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Josh Norton 29 Jul 94 17:39:00 Subject: charts UpdReq Hi Josh! Thanks for adding your 2 cents worth to the pot. JN> (I don't know how Dee figured the intermediate house cusps -- they don't JN> match any of the 15 systems my software will do. Perhaps he had JN> his own system.) Some day I'm going to get copies of some of the charts Dee did that are in the British Library, even if I have to go to England to do it! JN> If anybody's interested, here's my take on Kelly's chart: JN> JN> Edward Kelly JN> DOB 8/1/1555 JN> Wigmore, Worcester, England 52N15 02W20 (ref. London Times If his birth date wasn't so similar to mine, perhaps I'd drop it . So have you analyzed the charts and drawn any conclusions? Fir 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Walker Area: ENOCHIAN To: Julia Phillips 29 Jul 94 22:24:00 Subject: Re: enochian 101 UpdReq -=> Quoting Julia Phillips to Shadow Walker <=- JP> I have a slightly different background to some Wiccans though, as the JP> coven which initiated me was also a magical Lodge, and my JP> training is esentially Hermetic, rather than Wiccan. Also, my JP> partner of several years (we separated in 1991) is a dedicated JP> Enochian magician, and we did a lot of the early work together. JP> I've worked with some incredibly talented Wiccans, and some JP> amazingly inept magicians :) Mostly, the path is not so JP> crucial, as the dedication and ability of the practitioner, in JP> my experience. I have a similar background. But I have gotten so tired of the bickering that I have not stayed in any one group for very long. You were quite fortunate to have found a coven to guide you. I found Witch Clubs. I hope after some 20+ years of semi-solitary work I will find my coven family. chat with you again later. Shadow Walker ... Come Mista Crowley-man, talley me Cabala. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Walker Area: ENOCHIAN To: Christeos Pir 29 Jul 94 22:24:00 Subject: Re: enochian 101 UpdReq CP> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. AA> Which leads me to the next question: what are the dangers? AA> Pardon me if this seems overly gunshy, but I have heard more [...] SW> I have used this system for over 20 years now and I am pretty sure SW> that the "dangers" are due to subtle influences within the human SW> psyche. The system works on levels below consciousness. When you do a SW> call you actually open interdimentional gates within ones own being. SW> If a person is not careful forces and emotions released by the deep SW> mind can become deadly. That is a person can find themselves SW> developing obsessions, paranoia, subtle changes in personality, and SW> all the other problems one can develop as a result of coming too close SW> to the "Divine", too soon. I may seem a little flippant but I am SW> serious. The Enochian is not something to play with. If you are going SW> to do it, do it with reverance, respect, and deliberate intent. CP> CP> You _did_ notice that Ar said that and not me, yes? Sorry about that I am new to this. I will learn what goes on here. CP> But I pretty much agree with you, at least on the important stuff. I CP> balk a little at the "interdimensional" tag, but on the whole, yes, CP> one opens all kinds of doors both "within" and "without" and must CP> needs be ready to deal with what comes through. OTOH, if you saw _my_ CP> reply to Ar, you notice that I did stress that one should be CP> relatively stable, both mentally and emotionally. This is true for ANY CP> kind of magick, if it's at all effective. _Magick_ opens gates, CP> releases forces, and is nothing to play with unprepared. And Enochian CP> is certainly a lot safer than, say, Kenneth Grant's stuff! How is this any "safer"? I would think that Grant is dealing ultimately with the same forces (those within) BUT with different terminology and view. CP> Love is the law, love under will. Shadow Walker ... Every tradition was once a heresy. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Walker Area: ENOCHIAN To: Josh Norton 29 Jul 94 22:24:00 Subject: Re: enochian 101 UpdReq isn't such a lax aproach to all this rather dangerous? SW> Shadow Walker JN> Hello, SW! JN> I don't know which of our "lax" approaches you were commenting on, so JN> I'll answer for myself. You didn't give any specifics so the answer is JN> going to be rather general. JN> I've said before at some length that the primary danger I see in JN> enochian magick is over-stimulation, leading to stress and eventually JN> to burn-out. The cure for this lies in careful pacing of the intervals JN> between invocations, and would not be helped much by adding the usual JN> ceremonial trappings to the invocations. What do you mean by "usual ceremonial trappings" ? If you refer to instruments I feel though they may be important they need not physically be present. Though essential in spirit. JN> Dee felt that banishings were unneccessary for Enochian work, and I JN> agree with him. There is no "evil" or malevolence in any enochian JN> spirit I have encountered. Even the so-called cacodemons aren't JN> deliberately malevolent. The magician has to deliberately work JN> "against the grain" of the system before he can call up the forces in JN> an intrinsically destructive form. when using banishing I think of not clearing away evil but sort of like cleaning up after your guest has left. It also serves as a good way to decompress a bit and clear ones mind as not to confuse impressions. JN> As for banishings as a general practice, my personal feeling is that JN> the concept is a bit oxymoronic. I perceive myself as being thoroughly JN> and irrevocably connected to the rest of the universe; trying to put JN> up a wall between my "self" and the rest of it seems about as JN> practicable as putting one between my sense of humor and my sense of JN> irony. Maybe not a wall but the focusing of a lens. JN> In another message you mention the possibility that the enochian JN> forces can bring up garbage out of the unconscious parts of the being JN> in a form that might be dangerous. I agree with you about this, but JN> don't think that the danger of it happening is any greater with JN> enochian magick than with any other form. I agree!!! But there is something very pure about Enochian. So much so that a person need not have any conscious knowledge of magick or ritual to have the other than conscious mind to sieze upon these symbols and react to the confusion of the exposed individual. And having that crap pop up JN> and bite you is the best motivation there is for getting rid of it. JN> Since such events seem to only rarely produce permanent injuries, JN> perhaps its better that the magician experience it as early as JN> possible. Only if you asked and are prepared for it. These are not waters to be thrown in to see if you swim. ... "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." - L. Long ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Walker Area: ENOCHIAN To: Ar Aakhu-T 29 Jul 94 22:24:00 Subject: Re: enochian 101 UpdReq SW> AA> ritual I'm familiar with in my head, unless I want to go SW> the SW> AA> extra effort to, say, banish especially well or something. SW> Isn't such a lax aproach to all this rather dangerous? SW> Shadow Walker AA> It's a good point, but actually, in my experience, doing AA> ritual in your head tends to be a bit more demanding in concentration. AA> What's important is being honest and aware of whether you AA> really are keeping concentration up- but it seems like I always AA> have a pretty good sense of whether I'm keeping the ball AA> rolling. By comparison, working in a temple, with props (oops, AA> excuse me- consecrated magical tools :) and such, serves as a AA> good aid and crutch by grounding and keeping up the continuity AA> of the space. I understand what you mean I like to work that way as well; I was afraid that you just being lazy and sloppy which I have seen all too much of with dire results. I have found that really GOOD theatrics, that is sets, props even an exceptional performance can give the Rite a great deal of power and perceptual reality. ... equal opportunity heretic. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718