From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Azoth 12 Aug 93 09:33:20 Subject: RE: MISC ENOCHIANA UpdReq -=> Azoth sent a message to Christeos Pir on 10 Aug 93 19:12:11 <=- -=> Re: RE: MISC ENOCHIANA <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Az> Since the actual differences between the two sets of Tablets,exclusive Az> of their rearrangement in the Great Table, amounts to two (2) count'm Az> two letters (both little b's and quite possibly just transcription Az> errors in the original), I'm not inclined to worry overmuch. It'll have Az> to do until I can sort out all the other nit-picky instructions in Az> Dee's diaries about other corrections, if I ever do. };-] Heard that. I just got my copy of "True and Faithful Relation..." (turning 40 has _some_ rewards after all), so I'll be doing some more research. Was this book not available for a long time or something? Seems like some of the confusion (eg: pronunciation) could have been avoided by simply looking at the records. Example: NONCI Non ci, si [and] CHIS Chis Kis [and] 20____________________Chr kar in palato very much. ...etc. BTW, what is the page all in Enochian at the back of the book, just before the Appendix? CP> And what about this business of the names of the Angels not jiving CP> with the Recensa? Az> That's mostly the result of the rearrangement, and only really screws Az> up some of the God-names that govern the angels whose names are found Az> above the dependent crosses, and the demonic names. These are the Az> changes I'd rather not make, as the angel's approval of the initial Az> arrangement is emphatic and explicit. As for the letters,there's one Az> difference that slightly changes a Senior's name, and another that Az> changes the name of a lesser angel. That's about it, I think (there's Az> got to be an effect on one or two of the Governors names, though; I Az> haven't worked it out yet.) Yeah, I recall something about the change and the "Governors" in the James (too lazy to go upstairs and look it up right now). I suppose if I had enough motivation, some of these questions could be addressed to the Angeli themselves, though what answer I might get is another question. "It don't matter... just get on with it!" Or worse yet... "Second is of the First, but the Fourth shall be the Tenth. And in that which thou hast, make the upright the lasting, and discard the dross; therewith shalt thou have the Beginning." Az> It's my reference set because it's the only one with major Az> complexities in two dimensions. Josh's work takes it into Az> 3 or more, but we sort of need an Enochian erector set to Az> model it! Heh, kinda like Mather's tinkertoy version of the 3-D Tree! Well, actually, any decent computer (which leaves me out) should be able to give you a version of the Temples in pseudo 3-D, properly colored and all that, but seems to me that the mental exertion of formulating and holding the Temples in mind's eye is half the work right there! I have an as yet unassembled version of Paul's "Enochian Lego" (large pieces of the tablets on paper to be colored and then assembled into the full tablets), which I'm getting ready to put together (too many mistakes in my 8 1/2 x 11 copies, including that when I did them I didn't know what russet and citrine were!). However, I kinda wish I had the same thing without the pyramids. They're very pretty artistic and all, but they do distract somewhat, IMO. However, what I'll probably do is go ahead and do these, pyramids and all, and have smaller versions (8 1/2 x 11) to place on the altar. When it's built, that is -- another project I'm getting ready to do in the next few months. (It's a bitch to work kneeling in front of the coffeetable... at least it's of a fitting round shape!) Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... and thy perfume was of musk mingled with ambergris. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Fir 11 Aug 93 11:15:22 Subject: Comselha UpdReq -=> Fir sent a message to Josh Norton on 08 Aug 93 08:35:00 <=- -=> Re: Comselha <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Fi> I took an astrology class from Michael Cunningham at Stargazers Fi> Bookstore in New York and I believe he felt that a natal chart Fi> is read backwards, from the ascendent clockwise, to do a spiritual Fi> reading. He was heavily influenced by the C.C. Zain books. Another frustrated Achad? Zain's also the one who wanted to reverse the positions of Netsach and Hod, if memory serves. Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... I have gone down, O my God, into the abyss of the all, 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Mark O. Garrison 11 Aug 93 12:32:00 Subject: RE: MISC ENOCHIANA UpdReq -=> Mark O. Garrison sent a message to Christeos Pir on Mon 9 Aug 93 20:54 <=- -=> Re: RE: MISC ENOCHIANA <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. MOG> Exactly! Isn't that the idea in Gematria...to convey the MOG> correspondance of ideas through a form of cosmological symbolism (the MOG> AlephBeth and it's numerations...)? If the words "horse" and "candle" MOG> in regular gematria (by the letter method) add up to the same number, MOG> then they correspond in a significant way, one way or another, with MOG> eachother...they are "synonyms" of a sort! Well, as I said, it's not Gematria as I'm used to thinking of it, and something (either my logical side -in which case to Hell with him-, or else my Angel, not sure which yet) tells me we're barking up the wrong Tree, here. BUT, "One never knows, do one?" MOG> But since we are left without a MOG> reasonable method by which to obtain numeration for Enochian, as I MOG> believe that there was one intended but simply not revealed to Dee and Any particular reason for this belief, or just a sense of its Rightness? MOG> Kelly, we are left to explore and experiment every method that we can MOG> possibly imagine, in order to attempt to discover such said MOG> numeration. Indeed, sometimes this does lead us down the path of MOG> folly. However, remember, the Fool is always the start and ending to MOG> every journey... Before enlightenment, gathering wood and hauling water. After enlightment, gathering wood and hauling water. (But "what wood, what water!") MOG> Yeah, I would be fascinated to hear the results, too. You are MOG> absolutely right though...this is something that will most likely take MOG> YEARS of dedicated study to achieve! Oh well, I am just like MOG> that...and what makes it worse is that I have several (perhaps a MOG> couple dozen projects) that I am devotedly working on that all will MOG> take years to accomplish. Oftentimes, I find myself working on many MOG> projects that will never come to fruition in my lifetime...but I work MOG> earnestly after them, nonetheless! It is simply my hope that oneday my MOG> works might be carried on by others yet to come... And, QVIF!!! MOG> [Hebrew...] was originally designed for the purpose of MOG> conveying the cosmological relationship between concepts of the divine MOG> and nature through matematical representation, whereas most AlephBeths MOG> were for the purpose of representing thoughts/sounds of a previously MOG> spoken language through the medium of written symbols. As learned in the Bermuda Triangle from Atlantean Masters? No offense intended in the world, but I think you're reaching a bit here, bro. While anything's possible, I find it more likely that Hebrew, like any other language, evolved and/or was borrowed from sources current at the time, in order to write down what was being spoken by a particular group of tribes in the Middle East. Just because some of the people in that area used letters to convey numeric concepts (like counting), I don't think it's logical to jump to the idea of the Hebrews as the receivers of guidance from the Divine Mathematician. (For that matter, math, and particularly Algebra, didn't really take off until the Arabs separated numbers from letters, and began doing what we might call "Pure Research" into the whole field.) I dunno... seems like the early Qabalists did do a lot of thinking ("Pure Research" again) into that "cosmological relationship," as you put it, in looking for a hidden Torah behind the exoteric Torah. But to go from there to say that that's what their alephbet was originally devised for...? (Does the name Occam ring a bell? ) MOG> Egyptian Hieroglyphic are all examples of alpha/numeric languages MOG> (though I beg to differ on this later example!). Yeah, I think so. (Differing, I mean) As I understand it, Hieroglyphs are definately phonetic. I don't even know what their numbering system looked like?! OG> Therefore, in these cases, the only time when Gematria symbolism is MOG> truly valid is when it was intentionally (or subconsciously, I MOG> suppose) intended. With Hebrew and like languages, on the other hand, MOG> Gematria is a universal concept tied in with the language itself. I agree up to this point, because I see that as a result of the use of one symbol for both systems (eg: Beth = both "buh" and "**"). But I hit a wall with this: MOG> as the Hebrew language was designed to symbolize universal MOG> constants, so in itself it becomes a pattern of these constants and MOG> concepts... See my comments, above. re: Arabic in 777: MOG> the alphabet and a little vocabulary, but not enough to understand MOG> Arabic gematria or the accuracy of Crowley's Arabic notations and MOG> correspondences in 777. However, I would, by nature (or Crowley's MOG> Nature), tend to question his scholastic accuracy in any language but MOG> his native tongue. Yeah, he took a lot of Poetic License with things. Fools rush in... (Hey, sounds like the name of a bar: the Fool's Rush Inn!) MOG> Where on earth (or astral) do you come up with these MOG> "universal conspiracy theories"? You must be a member of the Bavarian MOG> Illuminati! Sorry, I can't [FNORD] tell you. Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... into the desolate land of Barren Words. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: ENOCHIAN To: Mark O. Garrison 12 Aug 93 22:42:04 Subject: Re: Trithemius and more UpdReq Hi, Mark - Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. A> I've had an eye out for the old edition, having seen it in A> a couple of bibliographies, but haven't seen it so far. Talked to JD Holmes the other day, and they were sold out of it, but were going to check into getting more. They do have the Smith bio of Dee, translated by W.A. Ayton, that alchemist of the G.D.. A> Wasn't Leo Vinci one of Crowley's aliases (after, I A> believe, a character in H. R. Haggard's _She_?) MOG> although I once remember seeing a complete listing of MOG> Crowley pseudonyms and aliases in some book, alas I MOG> could not locate it (of course as now I could use it! MOG> )... Yeah, I think I've got the same one around here somewhere.... A> The Laycock dictionary has been the most useful to me, and I MOG> I have never read Laycock's book. I have a general tendency to MOG> keep well away from any Llewellyn book! I Ah. The original was done by Askin, in England, about 15 years ago. Well done, too. Worth looking into, now that it's back in print; at least I've heard that it's back in print, but haven't seen the new one. I paid a ridiculous sum for mine, a year or so back. I sent Grendel an Xrox of the intro, if you see him around. A> That there were indeed numeric equivalents A> assumes an Enochian gematria. MOG> Very much so! But several centuries later it MOG> is just as much a mystery to us as it was to Dee and MOG> Kelly! Curiouser, too. There's a notation beside one of those mysterious numbers, by Dee, talking about 'middle C'. Was the gematria in terms of musical scales, do you think? I wonder if Joclyn Godwin has ever looked at his stuff.... MOG> shelf...Though, I cannot truly say that if I indeed MOG> had the money to wantonly spend on such purchases, MOG> unjustified, I would not do just that...purchase them MOG> for the simple sake of having them. Understood, too well. A> Nope. I'm interminably stuck here on the East coast, but the LOC has MOG> Yes, indeed. You are lucky enough to have access to the Mc Manus MOG> and De Young collections (and many other occult MOG> manuscript collections in the Library of Congress). MOG> So tell me if you ever unearth anything really MOG> monumental! ;) ;) Hehe. I think most such work will have to wait until I've settled a few workaday dilemmas. But my freelance software is doing well,and I can at least hope to be in a position to play properly in a couple of years, insh'Allah. A> How would you feel about getting prints made of something A> like that, and me scanning them into, say, .tif form for A> distribution? Has no one perhaps already done this? MOG> Prints of microfiche or mimeograph/photocopy? Either way, I MOG> would not have any qualms with this (though, it would MOG> take about two weeks for me to get microfiche MOG> duplicates made after I receive the MOG> film...photocopies I could do same day!)...I'm not Sounds like the beginning of a plan. };-] Now all I have to do is get the film of Logaeth...... MOG> microfilm is copyrighted by the company that MOG> photographs the manuscript, other times, the original MOG> depository may hold exclusive copyrights on the Presumably such restrictions would be annotated in the conditions of sale? MOG> text...However, if it was for public domain MOG> distribution where no profit was being made, I would MOG> have no moral quandry with it regardless of copyright MOG> or not! It's at least possible that an arrangement could be worked with the copyright holders. Of course, the major use of something like Logaeth would come _after_ it was entered into the computer, as text, rather than graphical data, and it's hard to see how this form could be restricted by copyright, other than by the individual doing the work. A> By all means! They deserve all our support, at least those A> of us with a scholarly bent, and a taste for rare A> old books that would otherwise be nearly impossible to find. MOG> proposing to do...Phanes Press has stated plans to MOG> rebuild the Alexandrian Library online...They already ... MOG> Occult Library on-line within a few years...Imagine MOG> if every scholar, such as us, input/scanned/uploaded MOG> only 10 texts a year! The end result could be amazing! And much harder to burn than the original! };-] Love is the law, love under will, Az0th 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: ENOCHIAN To: Christeos Pir 12 Aug 93 23:04:02 Subject: RE: MISC ENOCHIANA UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. CP> Heard that. I just got my copy of "True and Faithful Relation..." Well done! CP> (turning 40 has _some_ rewards after all), so I'll be doing some more CP> research. Was this book not available for a long time or something? It was published in a small edition by Askin some twenty years ago,and I think possibly by one other in Scotland in a very small printing,but I think that's about it. CP> Seems like some of the confusion (eg: pronunciation) could have been CP> avoided by simply looking at the records. Example: Too damned easy, and not cabalistic enough by half! };-] CP> BTW, what is the page all in Enochian at the back of the book, just CP> before the Appendix? Don't know, bubba; you're the first that's pointed it out. I'd never noticed it (or if I had, I'd promptly forgotten about it.) Az> That's mostly the result of the rearrangement, .... Az> got to be an effect on one or two of the Governors names, though; I Az> haven't worked it out yet.) CP> Yeah, I recall something about the change and the "Governors" in the CP> James (too lazy to go upstairs and look it up right now). I suppose if I've appended a recent log entry below, examining some of the implications of the Tabula Recensa. The differences turned out to be more substantial. CP> "Second is of the First, but the Fourth shall be the Tenth. And in CP> that which thou hast, make the upright the lasting, and discard the CP> dross; therewith shalt thou have the Beginning." Hehehhe. Precisely. Az> It's my reference set because it's the only one with major Az> complexities in two dimensions. Josh's work takes it into Az> 3 or more, but we sort of need an Enochian erector set to Az> model it! CP> Heh, kinda like Mather's tinkertoy version of the 3-D Tree! Yeah, like that, but Solid! CP> colored and all that, but seems to me that the mental exertion of CP> formulating and holding the Temples in mind's eye is half the work CP> right there! Nope, it's all the work. The rest is just stuff. The stuff that dreams are made of (saw Maltese Falcon the other night....) CP> the same thing without the pyramids. They're very pretty artistic and CP> all, but they do distract somewhat, IMO. However, what I'll probably do CP> is go ahead and do these, pyramids and all, and have smaller versions CP> (8 1/2 x 11) to place on the altar. When it's built, that is -- another That's about the size of the ones I use, but I agree that the pyramids aren't always necessary or appropriate, and a simpler version is preferred. I could send you some of the ones I use, or did I already? ******************************************** That journal entry I mentioned: ******************************************** The object of this exercise is to evaluate the impact of the Tabula Recensa on the original system of Angelic Names and Words of Power recorded by Dee in that part of Sloane 3191 which was catalogued by Ashmole as the 'Book of Supplications and Invocations'. As the first set of Enochian Tablets in Casaubon are incomplete, and later instructions received for their rectification are confusing at best, the method of obtaining Dee's pre-Recensa working version of the Great Table was as follows: 1) The Tablets of the Tabula Recensa of 1587 were rearranged around the Black Cross in conformance with their earliest recorded orientation,with all characters upper-cased. 2) The names recorded in the 'Book of Supplications and Invocations' were then retro-fitted to their proper places on these Tablets, and any resulting changes recorded in lower case. The source of this information was Turner's _Elizabethan Magic_, which references Sloane 3191. 3) The few evident typographical errors in Turner were corrected before the names were fitted to the Tablets: LAOAXRP is given as Laoxrp, which is short one letter. SLGAIOL is given as Lgaial or Slgaich, neither of which agree with the included characters from the 5-lettered name of God. ERN is given as Era, differing from Rn(a)il on the same line. These mistakes also disagree with Geoffrey James' presentation. 4) A file was generated containing names extracted from the Tabula Recensa,with all letters upper-cased. 5) Another file was generated containing names extracted from the recreated Great Table, with all changes being apparent as lower case letters. 6) The 2 files were compared using 'diff', with these results: Note: The use of some of these Names as 'Archangels', or as 'Elemental Kings' is not found in Dee, to whom they were simply names of God, used by the Magus to enforce his will with those Called, being meant for the 'Kerubic Angels' and 'Seniors', respectively. Similarly, the Invoking and Commanding Names were not angelic entities, but also Names of Power, both meant for dealing with the 'Lesser Angels'. The 'Lesser' and 'Kerubic' designations of the Angelic entities themselves also postdates Dee. 'Seniors' was evidently used by Dee, but we might as well call Them ye Great Olde Ones. There were 29 letters changed on 15 Tablet lines, changing 48 names. 1 Elemental King - God Name of Tablet 2 Commanding Angelic Names - horizontal of dependent cross 4 Invoking Angelic Names - vertical of dependent cross 4 Lesser Angelic Names - beneath the dependent cross horizontal arm 6 Seniors - from the Great Cross of each Tablet 11 Archangelic Names - containing a letter from the Black Cross 20 Kerubic Angelic Names - above the dependent cross horizontal arm 6 Archangelic Names were changed purely as the result of the rearrangement of the Tablets around the Black Cross in the Tabula Recensa; 2 more were changed in this way as well as by other character changes. Note: The planetary and elemental associations used in the following summary are those of the Golden Dawn, have no relevance to the work of John Dee in his 'Book of Supplications and Invocations', and are used here purely as a matter of referential convenience. All names containing lower case letters are from the re-created Great Table; lower.UPPER case pairs refer to the recreated vs. the Recensa characters, respectively. Air Tablet: (5 diffs on 4 lines, 17 names changed) R Z I L A F A v.Y T L P A T O I T T x.Z O P A C O C c.T N A B R V I X G A z.S D N A O C O T T N P R a.N T AAOxAIF AAOZAIF Jupiter Senior of Air NPaT NPNT Lesser Angel, Fire of Air EvTPA EYTPA Archangel, Water of Air HcNBR HTNBR Archangel, Earth of Air HXGzD HXGSD Archangel, Fire of Air vTPA YTPA Kerubic Angel, Water of Air TPAv TPAY Kerubic Angel, Water of Air PAvT PAYT Kerubic Angel, Water of Air AvTP AYTP Kerubic Angel, Water of Air cNBR TNBR Kerubic Angel, Earth of Air NBRc NBRT Kerubic Angel, Earth of Air BRcN BRTN Kerubic Angel, Earth of Air RcNB RTNB Kerubic Angel, Earth of Air XGzD XGSD Kerubic Angel, Fire of Air GzDX GSDX Kerubic Angel, Fire of Air zDXG SDXG Kerubic Angel, Fire of Air DXGz DXGS Kerubic Angel, Fire of Air Water Tablet: (7 diffs on 6 lines, 10 names changed) o.A A l.B C O O R O M E B B T a.O G C O N X M A L G M S A A I z.X A A R V R O I O L A A D a.N G A T A P A N D A Z N x.Z I V A A S A X R I N H T A R N a.D I L SOaIxNT SONIZNT Mercury Senior of Water OlGOTA OBGOTA Invoking Angelic Name, Air of Water IAAASa IAAASD Invoking Angelic Name, Fire of Water oAlCO AABCO Commanding Angelic Name, Air of Water TaCO TOCO Lesser Angel, Air of Water SAIz SAIX Lesser Angel, Air of Water ATAAD ETAAD Archangel, Air of Water ATDIM ETDIM Archangel, Water of Water PMAGL HMAGL Archangel, Earth of Water PNLRX HNLRX Archangel, Fire of Water Earth Tablet: (15 diffs on 3 lines, 19 names changed) r.O o.C c.A a.N n.C c.H h.I i.A a.S s.O o.M m.T A R B I Z M I l.I L P I Z O P A N A b.L A M S M A l.P ICZHhcAL ICZHIHAL Elemental King of Earth LhIANSA LIIANSA Saturn Senior of Earth AcMbICV AHMLICV Mercury Senior of Earth cBALPT ABALPT Invoking Angelic Name, Earth of Earth sPMNIR OPMNIR Invoking Angelic Name, Fire of Earth lLPIZ ILPIZ Commanding Angelic Name, Fire of Earth MSAl MSAP Lesser Angel, Fire of Earth EBOZA ABOZA Archangel, Air of Earth EPHRA APHRA Archangel, Water of Earth Hroan POCNC Archangel, Earth of Earth Hiaom PASMT Archangel, Fire of Earth roan OCNC Kerubic Angel, Earth of Earth oanr CNCO Kerubic Angel, Earth of Earth anro NCOC Kerubic Angel, Earth of Earth nroa COCN Kerubic Angel, Earth of Earth iaom ASMT Kerubic Angel, Fire of Earth aomi SMTA Kerubic Angel, Fire of Earth omia MTAS Kerubic Angel, Fire of Earth miao TASM Kerubic Angel, Fire of Earth Fire Tablet: (2 diffs on 2 lines, 2 names changed) O P A M N O o.V G M D N M R G O A N N p.Q A C R A R ALNDoOD ALNDVOD Moon Senior of Fire ARINNAp ARINNAQ Saturn Senior of Fire -------- Problems -------- Cross-comparision of the re-created Great Table with that similarly obtained in James' _Enochian Evocation_ discloses 3 discrepencies: 1) SOaIxNT is SOaIZNT in James. 2) ARINNAp is ARINNAQ in James. In both cases, James' indication of the character is consistent with the Tabula Recensa. That in Turner is consistent with the first Tables given in Casaubon. Also, Alndood is given in James as Alndvod, which disagrees with Turner as well as James' own reconstructed Table, though it agrees with the Tabula Recensa, and is evidently a typo. Love is the law, love under will. Az0th 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Azoth 12 Aug 93 10:35:36 Subject: Tablet diffs UpdReq -=> Azoth sent a message to Christeos Pir on 11 Aug 93 22:24:04 <=- -=> Re: Tablet diffs <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Az> Oops. Forgot to preface this with the which two sets I was talking Az> about: the two that Turner published from Dee's 'Book of Supplications Az> and Invocations', which are very nearly (as indicated) identical. I Az> did a quick comparison of the Recensa lettering today with the first Az> set of Tablets recorded in Casaubon, and there are many more Az> differences,most of which seem to have gone away piecemeal as the Az> angels provided corrections all the way up to the Recensa itself. I noticed that last night. I haven't had time yet to go through all the conversations in relation to the tables (or the rest, for that matter), but I'll be looking into it, and the effects upon the names of the various angels, names of God, etc. Oh, and the orientation to the compass, as well. I did take the time to jot down the phoneticisation of the Calls (funny how some people have actually asserted that they weren't meant to be spoken, given Dee's extensive pronuncation notation), though I haven't had time to compile my notes yet there are some interesting things turning up. I'll be looking into how it all "comes together" so to speak, as well as comparing it with both the Laycock and the AS pronunciations. Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... and lo! thou yieldest not. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Azoth 13 Aug 93 03:08:10 Subject: RE: MISC ENOCHIANA UpdReq -=> Azoth sent a message to Christeos Pir on 12 Aug 93 23:04:01 <=- -=> Re: RE: MISC ENOCHIANA <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Az> Don't know, bubba; you're the first that's pointed it out. I'd never Az> noticed it (or if I had, I'd promptly forgotten about it.) (Sigh) Another project... Az> I've appended a recent log entry below, examining some of the Az> implications of the Tabula Recensa. The differences turned out to be Az> more substantial. Thanks. It's after 4 am... I'll print it out later and get back to you. Az> preferred. I could send you some of the ones I use, or did I already? I dunno. I've got copies of the "coloring book" and Paul's "lego" stuff. The big tablets will be about 2'x3' and the little ones 8 1/2 by 11 inches. I'm gonna go with liquid acrylics, though... the hell with markers. AND tube paints. Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... I saw a pale sad boy that lay upon the marble in the sunlight, & wept. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Commander Barbarella 13 Aug 93 03:13:30 Subject: Re: 'The Enochian Workbook' UpdReq -=> Commander Barbarella sent a message to Christeos Pir on 10 Aug 93 08:05:16 <=- -=> Re: Re: 'The Enochian Workbook' <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. CB> A pretty smart fellow once said , CB> you're better off to use your own crude rituals than to blindly follow CB> elaborate ones from a book. You don't run as many risks and you get CB> better results. Sure, I guess. Depends on whether you're interested in experimenting with that system, or just in striking out on your own. Both are valid, and both can give good results, depending on the magician. But if you're gonna work with the Enochian system, I suggest doing it in the Enochian language, simply because just about everyone who's tried it both ways says it works better. You know, the proof of the pudding and all that... If you don't want to do it that way, I'd be the last person to tell you otherwise. It's not that there's some esoteric law, or cosmic "Because I say so" going on, it just seems to work better. Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718