From: Mark O. Garrison Area: ENOCHIAN To: Azoth 4 Aug 93 19:51:38 Subject: Re: Trithemius and more UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW In a message dated 03 Aug 93 12:48:16, Azoth wrote: MOG> THE STEGANOGRAPHICA OF TRITHEMIUS MOG> There was no mention unfortunately, however, of the MOG> text you had mentioned by Iohannes Trithemius. A> Eh, what'd I miss? I _was_ talking about the _Steganographia_. };-] A> The _Polygraphia_ I can live without (did Kircher do one too?); it's a A> frivolous modern theory that the _Steganographia_ is cryptological as A> well. You've read Deacon book on Dee? I suppose you didn't miss much...I was not completely sure this was the exact text you referring to (I thought that perhaps you were referring to some even rarer text that the rest of us hadn't heard of! ), figured it probably was but decided I should mention it to just to be sure...Yes, Kircher did his own version...interesting form of "Gematria" (I suppose that is what you would call it), too, I must say! ...And no, I must confess that I am not familiar in the least with Deacon...What was his book titled? A> Unfortunately, I'm the only benefactor I've got, and I can't afford A> me. I've already...benefacted...something over 4 grand on various A> bookish bits this year, and I've had to pass up some really juicy A> ones, like a late French _Picatrix_, and a NICE 17th century A> Agrippa.... (You'll find me listed as a supporting member in the back A> of Alexandria I, and a subscriber to_Goethe's Fairy Tale_,and.....it A> begins to sound like we hang in the same circles! };-]) I know exactly what you mean! :) :) Back when I was employed, I spent a good majority of my paychecks on books, myself. Now I have to pinch every pence. :) :) By the way, where ever on this earth did you find a late French copy of the PICATRIX for sale? I would be most interested in possibly purchasing it if it is still available. :) Yes, it does look like we visit the same circles...:> :> MOG> maybe, if you could convince all of us here on this MOG> Enochian Echo that it would be in all of our best MOG> interests' to do such a thing...and to make it even A> Any Enochian scholar that doesn't know that Trithemius is A> required reading by _now_.... Well! BTW, have you heard A> anything about Llewellyn releasing a re-typeset _Occult A> Philosophy_ later this year? Caught a rumour. You would be most suprised about how many Enochian "scholars" I have met--especially recently--who have never even heard of Trithemius! It's most shocking indeed! :) No, I have not heard anything about a typeset version of THE OCCULT PHILOSOPHY. I have no connections with Llewellyn at all, with the exception of hearing about the status of Gerald Del Campo's book...so I tend not to hear many rumours about them...not too often anyways! :) :) MOG> stated...if you do not like the idea of communicating MOG> with dolphins via electronic mail, you can use A> Hey, I _like_ the idea of communicating with dolphins, any A> which way! My thoughts on Trithemius have gone out with my A> subscription to the forthcoming _Magical Calendar_, along A> with properly suggestive queries regarding alternate scheduling! ???Exactly what do you mean about "alternate scheduling"??? MOG> Hope some of this might have helped to give MOG> you some form of hope. :) A> Hope, like lust, springs eternal.... Nothing could be more true! :) :) Take care, I shall talk with you later. Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: JOHN DEE Area: ENOCHIAN To: GRENDEL GRETTISSON 3 Aug 93 19:48:18 Subject: Enochian UpdReq -> Why WOULD it require Qabala? I see no link to the two prior to the G -> Dawn. mmmmmm I suggest you take another look at the Sigillum Dei Ameth and tell me the understanding of Hebrew and the Qabalah is not necessary. John DEE 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Paul Hume 4 Aug 93 07:18:00 Subject: Happy B'day Dear Edward... UpdReq PH> Just a note to pass on the news (gleaned from Thelema Lodge's PH> "History PH> Heap" column) that Aug. 1 marks Sir Edward Kelly's birthday. Please excuse the previous reply. Seriously, do you know if there are natal astrological charts available for Dee and Kelly? Blessings, Fir 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: ENOCHIAN To: Mark O. Garrison 5 Aug 93 21:08:04 Subject: Re: Trithemius and more UpdReq Hi, Mark - Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. A> do one too?); it's a frivolous modern theory that the _Steganographia_ A> is cryptological as well. You've read Deacon book on Dee? MOG> was the exact text you referring to (I thought that MOG> perhaps you were referring to some even rarer text MOG> that the rest of us hadn't heard of! ), figured What, like _De septem secondadeis_? };-] MOG> ...And no, I must confess that I am not familiar in MOG> the least with Deacon...What was his book titled? _John Dee_, would you believe? By Richard Deacon, published in 1968ev by Frederick Muller, in England; no ISBN on my copy, but I've not heard that it's particularly rare, though no doubt long out of print. It's a hoot, it really is, painting Dee as a sort of Tudor version of James Bond, and harping endlessly on the cryptographic aspects of his studies,along with the diplomatic and political details of his travels. Some of his sub rosa communications were actually signed 007! Actually, I was being a little facetious in referring to the crypto theory of the _Steganographia_ as modern; Dee is himself on record as holding out the same opinion, no doubt hoping to fool somebody into overlooking that totally un-cryptographic third book. John French's bio of Dee is a _lot_ better, and used to be available at Crown Books; I'm still looking for Charlotte Fell Smith's. If you haven't already read it, you ought to grab Nicholas Clulee's _John Dee's Natural Philosophy_ from Routledge, ISBN 0-415-03122-2; less depth about Dee's life, and more about his work, including a great examination of the _Monas_. A> Unfortunately, I'm the only benefactor I've got, and I can't afford me. ... A> begins to sound like we hang in the same circles! };-]) MOG> pence. :) :) By the way, where ever on this earth MOG> did you find a late French copy of the PICATRIX for MOG> sale? I would be most interested in possibly MOG> purchasing it if it is still available. :) Dealers are always sending me catalogs and brochures and suchlike. I took a fast look through those on hand, and I think I must have already tossed the relevant piece (can't bear the temptation!) If you're seriously in pursuit of one of those originals, I'd first off suggest polling W & V Daley Limited. They're at 8216 Melrose Avenue in LA,or PO Box 69160, LA, CA 90069, or (213) 658-8515. I've got their Catalog #61 here now, which lists a late 19th Century _Dragon Rouge_ at only $300, and a really nice _Enchiridion_, the Ancona of 1667, in 18th Century calf at $1875, and lots of other goodies. (...the London translation of Agrippa, 1651, at $2250...groan....) A> Any Enochian scholar that doesn't know that Trithemius is A> required reading by _now_.... Well! BTW, have you heard MOG> You would be most suprised about how many MOG> Enochian "scholars" I have met--especially recently-- MOG> who have never even heard of Trithemius! It's most MOG> shocking indeed! :) Har! The poor old Abbot has been ripped off and forgotten about for a long time, though bits of his work show up in the _Magus_, and the _Lemegeton_, and at least one edition of Agrippa's 'Fourth Book' of the _Occult Philosophy_. It's really a damned shame that portions of the _Steganographia_ have been irretrievably lost since Dee's day. MOG> No, I have not heard anything about a typeset MOG> version of THE OCCULT PHILOSOPHY. I have no Just checking. };-] I have no connections with Llewellyn or any other publisher, but the booksellers I deal with hear a lot of the industry gossip.... (like: Idries Shah and Arkon Daraul are really the same guy!) A> Hey, I _like_ the idea of communicating with dolphins, any A> which way! My thoughts on Trithemius have gone out with my A> subscription to the forthcoming _Magical Calendar_, along A> with properly suggestive queries regarding alternate scheduling! MOG> ???Exactly what do you mean about "alternate scheduling"??? Hehe. Well, having called their attention to the fact of Dee's current popularity (as if it wasn't obvious from their own poll) and noted the role of Trithemius in the development of Dee's magical philosophy and practical cabala, I as much as offered to help subsidise the re-spin of Trithemius (up to a point.....) if that would help their decision-making processes. };-] Love is the law, love under will, Az0th 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718