From: Vitriol Area: ENOCHIAN To: Azoth 25 Apr 92 00:08:52 Subject: Re: Kenneth Grant Rec'd Sent UpdReq -=> Azoth sent a message to Lady Byron on 19 Apr 92 18:14:06 <=- -=> Re: Kenneth Grant <=- A> Now wait a minute, let me get this straight: there's this motel, A> right? And you're going to do some magick there, right, because it's A> haunted? By someone that died in the ?? DUNGEON ?? Odd sort of motels A> they have out there.... Guess you never saw "Horror Hotel", a B-flick released in the late 50's - early 60's. Complete with skeletal doorkeepers, a coven looking to sacrifice unwary guests (preferably nubile), etc. Scared and fascinated the heck out of me as a kid (you see the results, don't you?) and still good for a laugh (somewhat nostalgically, as a part of my childhood) when I saw it again on late night TV a couple years ago. Oh, and, you're right... there's messages here that never got to the DC boards. Like yours, above. 418 ... I hear Enochian, but you can't come in... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: ENOCHIAN To: Frater I.O.S.P. 25 Apr 92 00:15:58 Subject: Re: Jewelry Offer Rec'd Sent UpdReq I have been so far unsuccessful in trying to find someone who has a polished obsidian disk or mirror for scrying. If you have such a beast , please let me know. As this is not really the place for commercial enterprises, even though related to the topic of this echo, how about replying either in Magicknet Mundane, Oasis, Pagan_Chat, or via netmail (either 1:109/134 or 1:109/155). 418 ... I don't care if it's impossible - as long as it WORKS! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: ENOCHIAN To: Bobby Meizer 25 Apr 92 00:30:22 Subject: RE: Loose thread... Sent UpdReq -=> Bobby Meizer sent a message to Azoth on 23 Apr 92 17:01:50 <=- -=> RE: Loose thread... <=- BM> Your blithe acceptance of 'responsibility' strikes me as the frantic BM> posturing of a hypocrite who knows he's been caught. Please post a BM> message with your real name and address so I might send it, along with BM> copies of the other relevant messages, to Mr. Anger. -!- Tabby 2.2 Bobby: Is there a reason for (or a point to) all this hostility? Here's my "who the hell asked you" 2 a.m. gist of the saga so far... A and B are discussing a situation in the past. C takes offense on behalf of one of the persons originally involved, and who is not party to the discussion. C then tells B that he should watch what he says about this person. B replies that, in the first place, he wasn't even referring to that person, that C should refer back to the original discussion, and that said person probably has better things to worry about anyway. C responds by unloading on B, calling him a "hypocrite" who is "posturing frantically." What is point in all this qlippoth? (Then Z -yours truly- sticks his big nose in the mess, and gets jumped on by C, D, E, F, etc...) 418 ... Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: ENOCHIAN To: Vitriol 25 Apr 92 17:19:30 Subject: RE: Loose thread... Sent UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. -=> Quoting Vitriol to Bobby Meizer <=- V> A and B are discussing a situation in the past. C takes offense on V> behalf of one of the persons originally involved, and who is not V> party to the discussion. C then tells B that he should watch what V> he says about this person. B replies that, in the first place, he V> wasn't even referring to that person, that C should refer back to V> the original discussion, and that said person probably has better V> things to worry about anyway. C responds by unloading on B, calling V> him a "hypocrite" who is "posturing frantically." This fairly summarizes my perception as well. I'm frankly at a loss as to how Herr Meizer became so enflamed. His behavior reminds me, though, of the sort of hysterical reactions engendered in the textbook control freak who suddenly fails to find the expected 'buttons' in his target. Since I don't know the guy from Adam (or Eve), I refuse to speculate, but he's certainly fun to watch.... Love is the law, love under will. ... Even paranoids occasionally have Real enemies... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: ENOCHIAN To: Bobby Meizer 25 Apr 92 17:39:28 Subject: RE: Loose thread... Sent UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. -=> Quoting Bobby Meizer to Azoth <=- BM> Your blithe acceptance of 'responsibility' strikes me as the frantic BM> posturing of a hypocrite who knows he's been caught. Please post a BM> message with your real name and address so I might send it, along with BM> copies of the other relevant messages, to Mr. Anger. I ask you for the Second Time, sir: what precisely is your _point_? My biodata is on file at BaphoNet and HaditNet, for instance, to whose Sysops you may apply. It is at least possible that they may feel your ravings deserve more than a bemused chuckle. I, however, do not. Unless you explain yourself immediately, and at length, and in terms which pertain to Enochian Magic or congruent studies, I will consign your missals to the Abyss, and this communication channel will be Closed To You. Love is the law, love under will. ... Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater I.O.S.P. Area: ENOCHIAN To: Bobby Meizer 25 Apr 92 01:13:56 Subject: RE: Re: Jewelry Offer UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. -=> Quoting Bobby Meizer to Frater I.o.s.p. <=- BM> In a message to Tony Iannotti written on Thursday, April 23, 1992 at BM> 0:01:02, Frater I.O.S.P. writes: FI> a hard time finding. You are entitled to your opinion and FI> your own Will, and as a fellow Thelemite, I respect that. FI> Thank you once again for your insight. BM> Since you are so generous to entitle others to an opinion and a 'Will' BM> I thought I would avail myself of this opportunity to tell you how BM> tacky, uncool, and self-promoting your advertisements appear to me. Why BM> don't you pay for your ads like an honest businessman instead of BM> imposing them upon the 'captive audience' of these various echoes? Are there ads available at a fee in this form of media? If an echo was set up for this possibility, I would be the first to send a check. I'm sure that the funds would go to good use towards bills SysOps incure with such an expensive venture as BBS running. Do you know of any such echos yourself? If so, I would appreciate your help in enlightening me. If not, thanks anyway. Love is the law, love under will. Frater I.O.S.P. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater I.O.S.P. Area: ENOCHIAN To: Tony Iannotti 25 Apr 92 02:38:52 Subject: Enoch Pant./Universe Ripples Rec'd UpdReq -=> Quoting Tony Iannotti to Frater I.O.S.P. <=- TI> I was wondering about a brass Sigillum Dei Aemeth? FI>Wow... I never thought about that before... Hmm... FI>First off, how big would you want it? Secondly, would it be FI>for ritual/scrying etc. or just for decoration? I have never heard FI>of a _brass_ Sigillum Dei Aemeth. I have a wax one that I made myself TI> Yes, I am using a wax one now also, 8 inches, but it's getting old, TI> and I did not make a mold for it, instead incising all the lines, TI> etc., so I guess I am looking for something a litle more permanent. I know... It's hard to get the wax to stay in the same state that you got it in in the first place after a period of time... I think it would be a good idea to try it in brass or some other sort of metal. I kinda figured that you wanted it for ritual instead of just decoration. It's too beautiful for JUST decoration, eh? TI> 8 inches is the size I am used to, but anything from half a foot to TI> a foot would be nice. What about thickness? It might give it a nice weight also. TI> I think a stamping etch would be the most efficient, if you assume TI> you will find others wanting such a thing. If the ad works! Then it might be wise to make one to be used over and over again. A stamping etch would also save time on getting the Sigillum to whoever wants it (it would also make it much cheaper to produce.) FI>What kind of Enochian experimentations have you done recently? FI>I have been working on correlating the Enochian system with the FI>Tree of Life, and have found some interesting points in the Bible FI>on Enoch and his placement in the Creation Epic of Genesis. TI> Mostly I go in there for opinions, but recently I have been trying TI> to get fuller rules for Enochian Chess. I'd be interested in your TI> findings. I'd like to see your findings also. I left another message (after this one) to you with some of my ideas. FI>There is a definite reason why the workings of Dee and Kelly have FI>been labeled "Enochian," and I have been trying to work out a good answer. TI> I had always gone with Dee's explanation that it was the tongue TI> that Enoch spoke with them. Enoch or Kelley? How did they know it was Enochian? I think that it was based upon Dee's aniticipation for the results which were sought after. I have think that the following quote gives a reason for this: 'I have often read in thy (God's) books and records, how Enoch injoyed thy favour and conversation; with Moses thou was familiar; And also that to Abraham, Isaack and Jacob, Joshua, Gideon, Esdras, Daniel, Tobias and sundry others thy good angels were sent by thy disposition, to Instruct them, informe them, helpe them, yea in worldly and domestick affaires, yea and sometymes to satisfie their desires, doubtes, and questions of thy Secrete: And furdermore considering, the Shewstone, which the High Prieste did use, by thy owne ordering...that this wisdome could not come by at mans hand or by humaine power, but only from thee (o' God.)' I think that can be taken a step further, but I'll leave that for the next message to you. FI>happen to hear on the news recently that scientists have found FI>"ripples" of matter at the edge of the universe and that it is a clear FI>indication that the universe is expanding rapidly? It's up FI>for a Nobel Prize because it indicates that the universe FI>originated at one point and expanded much like what would happen FI>if you dropped a stone in a lake. It helps solidify the FI>"Big Bang Theory." TI> No, had no heard that. What do they mean by ripples? Or how were TI> they detected? Thanks! I'm not sure how they were detected, but they stated that when the initial explosion occured, fragments of energy and matter were sent in every possible direction. I would guess that because space is a vacuum, these particles continue to expand in space today. If not by themselves, I'm sure that they are getting help from other exploding suns, matter, or what have you. These 'ripples' of matter are probably the outer edges of what happened. They give the current structure of the universe, which would probably mean that the universe is much like a sphere in space. If you were to throw a ball into space, (and no foreign objects got in it's way,) it would continue to travel in this 'vacuum' forever. So, if the original point of the explosion sent everything going in motion (possibly why orbitation/gravitation is possible,) then these particles should continue to expand forever also. There are probably other explosions which have occured in space much like our own 'Big Bang.' This would mean that universes would be structured in a like fashion, but still filled with the chaos of the inner changing and reproduction mechanisms in themselves. The cool point about it all, is that it means that there is a limit to how far OUR explosion expanded to in space. It would be interesting to see our universe on an EXTREMELY LARGE wide angled lense! I'd also like to see if there are indeed evidences of other explosions like the 'Big Bang' that equal in magnitude to our own. Space probably goes on forever, but what's causing the vacuum? It's seems to be forming a state of "withoutness," what do you think? Love is the law, love under will. In Thelema, Frater I.O.S.P. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater I.O.S.P. Area: ENOCHIAN To: Tony Iannotti 25 Apr 92 04:24:50 Subject: Enochian Ideas Rec'd UpdReq Care Frater! Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Well, here are some of my findings on Enoch. Let me know what you think: Enoch's Family Tree: GOD (the Creation Epic) | | Adam-----------Eve \ | / \ | / Cain-----------SETH-------------Abel | | | | | | Enoch Enos (dies at hand of brother Cain) | | | | Irad Cainan | | | | Mehujael Mahalaleel | | | | Methusael Jared | | | | Lamech [__ENOCH__] | | Methuselah | | Lamech | | Noah / | \ / | \ Shem Ham Japeth In the Bible, when Cain killed Abel (since Abel was God's chosen one,) Seth was born to take the slain brother's place. We then see two lineage lines develop: one for Cain, and the other for Seth. First, I noticed that several of the names of Cain's lineage were the same as the sons in Seth's. I also noticed that the following list of lifespans were given ONLY to Seth's lineage, and not to Cain's. This was because Seth was blessed with Abel's offering of Blood (Self sacrifice) and so was in favor with God. Whereas, Cain was not in favor and was not given the same treatment. This list has some very curious number parallels, starting with the fact that Enoch was the 7th blessed son of God. You can imagine why only sons where listed an not daughters (!). Let's look at the list: Adam: Lived for 130 years before having Cain and Abel NO REFERENCE AS TO HOW OLD ADAM WAS WHEN SETH WAS BORN Lived for 800 years after the birth of Cain and Abel Total lifespan: 930 years Abel: Blessed by God because of his sacrifice of Blood Possibly a sacrifice of the Self or Ego? Killed by brother Cain out of jealousy Cain: Sacrificed the Fruits of his Labour, or Sacrificed material things instead of Blood (what God wanted) (so why send money to Rev. Robert Tilton?) Killed brother Abel because of the fact that he was not able to sacrifice the Self. The Ego is probably the REAL reason he killed Him) Seth: Was sent to Adam and Eve to replace Abel, and to bring the children Abel should have had, but didn't into the world. Cain's Lineage: It's interesting that a lot of the names run much like in the Seth lineage. The 7th son from God on Cain's side was Lamech (parallels Enoch, the 7th on Seth's side) Lamech committed 2 murders and was cursed 70 and 7 fold which makes the world outside of Seth's lineage completely wicked because it is encompassed by all of Cain's family, a cursed one at that Seth's Lineage: Survives all the way up to the SAME YEAR of the Flood. Then all of the last of Seth's sons dies except for Noah. This leaves the world filled with Cain's sons, and Noah's small family. This is probably why God told Noah that his family was the only one left on the Earth who had favor in God's eyes (goes all the way back to the original sacrifice between Cain and Abel) Seth: Lives 105 years before having Enos, dies 807 years after the birth. Total Lifespan: 912 years Enos: Lives 90 years before having Cainan, dies 90 years after the birth. Total Lifespan: 905 years Cainan: Lives 70 years before having Mahalaleel, dies 840 years after the birth. Total Lifespan: 910 years Mahalaleel: Lives 65 years before having Jared, dies 830 years later. Total Lifespan: 895 years Jared: Lives 162 years before having ENOCH, dies 800 years later Total Lifespan: 962 years ENOCH: 7th Son from God in the Seth Lineage. At the point of Enoch's birth, Seth was 492 years old and Adam was 622 years old. Enoch lived for 65 years before having his son, Methuselah, and then WALKED WITH GOD for 300 years. He was the ONLY son who DID NOT DIE but TRANSCENDED DEATH. In place of where the usual information about the death of the last son was located in the scriptures, the following can be found regarding Enoch: "Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah 300 years." - Gen. 5:22 total Lifespan: 365 years (actually he lived forever because the following is written on what happened to him instead of death: "And Enoch walked with God; and he was NOT; for God took him." - Gen. 5:23 It is stated in the Bible that Enoch wrote 366 Books in order to instruct his sons in his knowledge. Why? and What Knowledge? Methuselah: Lived 187 years and then had Lamech. Died 782 years afterwards for a total of 969 years. Notice that he lived up to THE VERY YEAR that is recorded for the Flood, and then died right before it happened! Lamech: Lived 182 years and then begat Noah. Died 595 years later for a total of: 777 years Lived up to 5 years prior to the date of the Flood. Noah: Lived for 500 years and then had Shem, Japeth, and Ham Flood occurs when he is 600 years old on the 17th Day of the 2nd month. He lives for 450 years and dies at the ripe old age of 950 years. I found all of these points very interesting in their parallels, so I elaborated on them because of these inspirational ideas: 1. Noah - Compare this to the Chaldean Nuah, the third person in the Chaldean Trinity, and also the third sign in the Chaldean Zodiac 2. Noah - was transfigured at birth (according to the Bible) and the light of his body illuminated the "whole house." Which house? The house he was born in? Or mabey the house of Tiphareth! Keep in mind that Noah is to become the Savior of the World at this point, whereas he builds an ark to help save the evolutionary process from starting all over again. If it wasn't for Him, according to the Bible, we all wouldn't be here right now. These are my elaborations: 0. Ain, Ain Soph, Ain Soph Aur --- GOD/GODDESS 1. Kether ------------------------ Adam & Eve Conjoined (1st Manifestation from God) 2. Binah/Chokmah ----------------- Seth (dual reflection of Adam & Eve) 3. Geburah/Chesed ---------------- Enos 4. Tiphareth --------------------- Cainan 5. Hod/Netzach ------------------- Mahalaleel 6. Yesode ------------------------ Jared 7/1. Malkuth/Kether -------------- Enoch 2. Binah/Chockmah ---------------- Methuselah 3. Geburah/Chesed ---------------- Lamech (Flaming Sword, 777) 4. Tiphareth --------------------- Noah ('...the light of his body illuminating the whole house' Saviour of the World 5. Hod/Netzach ------------------- Japeth 6. Yesode ------------------------ Ham 7. Malkuth ----------------------- Shem (possibly taken from the 72 fold name of: SHEMHAMFORASH ???) I have some other ideas about all of this, but I have taken up enough space on this message as it is. I am also in the process of studying Enoch's life in the Book of Job. Any new ideas on what I have so far? I'd like to see what you think about it... Love is the law, love under will. In Thelema, Frater I.O.S.P. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718