From: Istvan Dragosani Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 1 Jun 95 09:47:00 Subject: Templars UpdReq Also Sprach Christeos Pir: CP> ID> I've read several different theories on what the Baphomet was supposed CP> ID> to be. We may not ever really know what went on within the walls of CP> ID> Templar commanderies, or just what the Baphomet meant to them, since CP> ID> most of what we have to go on are what the outside said about them, CP> ID> especially with regards to the charges leveled against them by the CP> ID> King of France, which more likely than not were trumped up rather than CP> ID> the truth. CP> Agreed. I've read a bit as well, but it all seems to be conjecture, and CP> more revealing about the psyche of the writer than revelatory on the CP> quote-unquote "facts." How amusing! I just tagged this echo for QWK, and was suprised to actually find a message waiting for me! CP> Baigent & Leigh, after Idries Shah: Arabic "Abufihamet," pronouced CP> in Moorish Spanish as "Bufihamat" = "Father of Understanding," or CP> "Father of Wisdom." I think they also mentioned that this may be a corruption of Mohammed as well. CP> [rest of entry cut for bandwidth... I'll have the entire essay with me CP> at the meeting. If you want a copy, just let me know -- it covers the CP> entire Credo.] I would like to see that. CP> ID> You might be interested in seeing this two part documentary I taped a CP> ID> couple weeks ago on TLC, if you didn't get to see it yourself. It was CP> ID> narrated by Henry Lincoln, one of the authors of _Holy Blood, Holy CP> ID> Grail_. CP> I'd love to. If you have the resources to make a dub, I'd be glad to CP> recompense you for expenses; otherwise, maybe I could borrow it. I'll bring it to the next WB meet, either at Dodge's on Friday or at Paul's on Saturday. And I am going to be there this time!!!! Istvan Dragosani | "Go not to the Elves for counsel, bmccoy@capaccess.org | for they will say Minstrel, Mage, Sage, Wooer of Women, | both no and yes" and General Friend of All Nature... | -- JRR Tolkien * OLX 2.1 * At a seance, he who levitates is host. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Istvan Dragosani Area: Thelema To: All 1 Jun 95 12:33:02 Subject: Greetings! UpdReq Greetings unto All from Istvan Dragosani! Just tagged this echo today (don't know why I didn't see it before), and see a LOT of familiar faces... errr... names, like Rose Dawn (hi, sweetheart! You owe me some e-mail!), Paul Hume, Christeos Pir, Herb Mitchell, Josh Norton and Kevin Bold (we're back in the saddle again, bro!) And congratulations should go out to my dear sweet Scarlet Woman and wife, best friend and lover, Rhiannon Dragosani (Soror O.R.V.V., aka Rynne), who just received word from the powers that be that she has been officially reinstated into the OTO after a three year hiatus. Vivat! Vivat! Vivat! Istvan Dragosani | "Go not to the Elves for counsel, bmccoy@capaccess.org | for they will say Minstrel, Mage, Sage, Wooer of Women, | both no and yes" and General Friend of All Nature... | -- JRR Tolkien * OLX 2.1 * And now LaToya is starting to look like the normal one... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Istvan Dragosani Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 1 Jun 95 12:38:04 Subject: This that and the other. UpdReq Also Sprach Paul Hume: I know this post is a trifle old, but... PH>The Necronomicon, modern revisionist movements to the contrary, does PH>not appear in any context prior to Lovecraftian fiction. Lovecraft PH>himself is on the record (inhis correspondence) that he PH>made up the name and the awful/awe-full contents, with the PH>other writers in his voluminous PH>circle of friends contributing colorful, hair-raising passages, etc. Have you ever read _A Brief History of the Necronomicon_ written by Lovecraft himself? It's rather amusing. It seems most likely that Lovecraft was inspired by _The King in Yellow_ by Robert W. Chambers, and possibly _The Sacred Magick of Abramelin the Mage_. Abdul Alhazred, as Lovecraft himself says, was a childhood persona he sometimes assumed, being a great fan of The Arabian Nights. Lovecraft himself, contrary to what people like Maury Terry have stated, never practiced the occult, as he found modern occultism and spiritualism rather lacking (although he never stated exactly what he meant by modern occultism). He did say, however, that he had built an altar to Pan when he was young and impressionable. Despite this, though, his researches into the occult, as well as astronomy, physics and biology, were pretty good, considering he never finished school. PH>Crowley didn't work with the Necronomicon for the simple reason that PH>there wasn't a "real" one then (nor is there now, come to that, as the PH>various books making the claim - Simon, Hay, et al - are constructions PH>by modern authors of what a working grimoire like the fabled Necronomicon PH>would be if it did exist). There is no evidence that the PH>two men, Crowley and Lovecraft, ever met or wrote, or that PH>they were particularly aware of PH>each others existence. Some think that a certain line in "The Thing on the Doorstep" may have an oblique reference to Crowley, where it mentions a notorious cult leader who, after being ousted from England, took up residence in New York. It might be stretching it a bit to say that it was indeed Crowley. I once met a guy from Tahuti who said he had actually worked on the Simon Necronomicon. Don't remember what his name was, though. But my opinion of the modern fabrications is that they don't seem to even touch close to what Lovecraft envisioned Al Azif to be. I think the book my father handed me for Christmas a couple years is probably closer. It was bound in blood red, and bore a title in white letters that said _Mathematical Physics_, and was filled with all kinds of obscene diagrams and obscure formulae. My father himself noted that it looked like a book on black magick, and, he said further, "I'm not so sure that it isn't!" Istvan Dragosani | "Go not to the Elves for counsel, bmccoy@capaccess.org | for they will say Minstrel, Mage, Sage, Wooer of Women, | both no and yes" and General Friend of All Nature... | -- JRR Tolkien * OLX 2.1 * Defeat is worse than death since you have to live with it 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Paul Hume Area: Thelema To: Istvan Dragosani 2 Jun 95 09:38:20 Subject: This that and the other. UpdReq Istvann - Chambers and Bierce are certainly two contributors to Lovecraft's literary flavor. Have you read the King In Yellow stories? Great stuff. "Words like poisoned diamonds," etc. I must track down the History - keep running into references to it lately. The Thing On The Doorstep certainly sounds like Aleister - the reference, that is, not the title. Or maybe not. (First generation Thelemite opens door to get paper and milk, finds portly gentleman with a cigar and a suitcase on stoop: Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, dear brother. I was just on this side of the pond and thought I'd pop by for a few months. Oh, by the way, you are now a Vo and this domicile is granted charter as a Profess House of the Order. Have you any brandy, there's a good chap.) The Haye edition of teh Big N, from Skoob, is a much better pass at the subject than Simon - ritual gear and sigils are based on the descriptions in Lovecraft, and the incantations build on the Great Old Lines (that which lies dreaming etc.). Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 2 Jun 95 09:23:40 Subject: Re: TEST Rec'd UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Ok, you got through here at MM! :> . Thanks! Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 3 Jun 95 19:40:16 Subject: Re: TEST UpdReq Cool, Arena? (Nice dance, he says, at the risk of PC harrassment charges....) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718