From: Brian Dare Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume Subject: Resh UpdReq >Brian - >The version of Resh with Elemental Grade signs (Shu in East, Thoum-aesch-neith >in South, Auramoth in West, Set in North, or 2=9, 4=7, 3=8, and 1=10, >respectively) originated, as far as I know, with Kraig, in Modern Magick. He >may have adopted it from another source, as it makes OK sense (I think I'd >used it myself some time back). >The version with Signs and "topology" based on standing at intersection of Peh >and Samekh is from a Crowley commentary on the ritual. Thanks, Paul. I should've known I could count on you for a response! :) Although, to be honest, I wasn't sure. Things have been pretty quiet on the CM-type subs lately. I haven't "spoken" to you in ages! I suspected what you stated above, but had two problems: 1) While I believed the same thing about Kraig originating that version, I saw the same one in a new book called _The Magician's Grimoire_, by Steve Savedow, owner and operator of Serpent's Occult in Port Orange, FL. I, of course, realized he could have "borrowed" this version from Kraig, but seemed far more Thelemic than Kraig, so I was suprised he would do so. 2) I have never seen, though I suspected it existed, the Crowley commentary of which you spoke. Thanks for the info! Just making sure I know what I'm talking about before I go talking! :) In LVX, BD ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ I crashed my Windows - used the Necronom Icon! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Brian Dare Area: Thelema To: Grey Subject: Re: HELLO? UpdReq >If one is standing at the intersection of samekh and pe, what god-forms are >you told to assume? I've always seen it done with the elemental grade-signs >given in Magick in Theory and Practice, A:.A:. style. Some people just use the >sign of their grade. The two versions I was speaking of are: Kraig's version (using the Elemental Attributions as in the LBRP): Golden Dawn Grade Element God-form Direction Theoricus 2=9 Air Shu East Philosophus 4=7 Fire Thoum-aesch-neith South Practicus 3=8 Water Auramoth West Zelator 1=10 Earth Set North Crowley's (O.T.O) version (intersection of Samekh/Peh): Sephirah God-form Direction Tiphareth Ra East Netzach Thoum-aesch-neith South Yesod Shu West Hod Auramoth North Which is strange, because the Noon Adoration uses the same Sign in either case, the Dawn Adoration Sign in the first is the same as the Sunset Adoration in the second, the Sign of Sunset in the first is the Midnight Sign of the Second, and both contain one Sign each that the other doesn't use. >BD> ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ Cthulhu, eh? If he's so powerful why is he so ugly? >Because true power is being ugly and not being told so. Then _I_ must be the One True God! ;) In LVX, BD ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ Kraft of the Wise - Velveeta and Potato Chips 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Brian Dare Area: Thelema To: Grey Subject: Re: The Unicursal He UpdReq To start off with, I do NOT want you to think I am "jumping in" to "pick on you." That is the farthest from my mind. Whatever is going on between you and Kevin IS between you and Kevin, and since I have enjoyed talking with BOTH of you for some time now, I'm not gettin' in the middle. ;) There was one thing you said, though, that I wanted to disagree with: >KB> One could just as easily use concentric >KB> circles/spheres, or think of them as ten spheres in ten different >KB> dimensions in the same coordinates. >No, you can't use concentric circles, because the sephiroth do not contain >each other, nor do they supercede each other. Each is individual and distinct >and relates to its neighbors in a certain way. That's why they HAVE ten of >them! The alternative arrangements of the Tree of Life give additional >insights on pathworkings ONLY AS LONG AS YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE SEPHIROTH ARE, >NOT WHAT SOMEBODY WROTE IN A BOOK!!! Books are great, but practical knowledge, As Kevin mentioned elsewhere, experience is subjective. And I feel (and yes, I may be no one's Adept, but I HAVE done the work) that the "concentric circles" model is both acceptable AND accepted by many in the Hermitic Qabalistic community. Let me quote a few related ideas: "V. PROPOSITION. - The Sephiroth are both active and passive (Meqabil Va-Metheqabel). "PROOF.- As the Sephiroth do not set aside the unity of the Ain Soph, each one of them must receive from its predecessor and impart to its successor-i.e., be receptive and imparting." - Dr. Jellinek, Beitrage zur Geschichte der Kabbalah, Erstes Heft. "The Qabalah does not conceive of God as fabricating creation stage by stage, but thinks of the different phases of manifestation as evolving one from another, as if each Sephirah were a pool which, being filled, overflowed into a lower pool." - Dion Fortune, _The Mystical Qabalah_. I personally have had flashes of Realization regarding the Interconnectivity of It All, and have no problem with the "Concentric Circle" model as an alternative to the traditional Otz Chiim. You may wish, by the way, to refer to quoting the work of others as "mindless hero-worship," but I prefer to think of it, in the case of authorities, as "building on the Work that has gone before" and as "not having to reinvent the wheel." In LVX, BD ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ Looks like I picked a bad day to quit reading the Tarot! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 11 May 95 15:35:02 Subject: Re: JUGORUM UpdReq PH>It is the "unconscious" stuff where the practice excels - whether whacking PH>away at the arm with an implement of destruction, or using PH>a toned down aversive reinforcer, or simply, as suggested PH>earlier, just noting how often you had a "break." PH>Eliminating the unconsciousness of speech, action, and PH>thought is the goal of Jugorum. The recommended practices PH>are not, as it happens, "bad habits" - saying "I" or PH>raising your left hand above your waist, etc. - in part to PH>avoid the "moral" baggage of eliminating a "bad" habit. PH>Jugorum's purpose is not to induce "virtue," but to train PH>the mind ot awareness and vigilance. I am personally of the opinion that adapting the Gurdjieff Work practice of "Cultivating The Witness" may be best of all in this. The idea is to train your mind to be constantly, objectively observing all of what you do, as sort of a background process. It's training your brain to consciously multi-task. Jugorum in all its myriad forms seems to me to be, mas o menos, Skinnerian counter-conditioning. It's a very robotic way of getting rid of the robotic actions you are trying to overcome. It would seem that it would be counterproductive in the end. If you want to train the mind to a greater awareness and vigilance, you don't use methods which shortcircuit awareness. Punishing Nefesh is no way to strengthen the link between Ruach and Neschamah. 93 93/93 --.\\<-H-- michelle.hass@ledge.com * SLMR 2.1a * It's not Do what thou WHIM, it's Do What Thou Wilt!!! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Walter Five Area: Thelema To: Grey 11 May 95 07:47:12 Subject: I ain't done yet. UpdReq 93's Guys... As brothers fight ye! But could you keep the personal flames and mutual admiration society stuff in private E-mail? Blessed Beast! Walter Five Fr.'. D.E.D.I. K.E.W. /s 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718