From:    Kevin Bold                             Area: Thelema
To:      Tim Maroney                            29 Jan 95 07:53:60
Subject: "Troublemakers"                        UpdReq 

93!
|TM >  KB> As for WRC's name, the Whiskey Rebellion wasn't about making
|TM >  KB> trouble.  It was about not taking any crap from the government.
|TM >
|TM > We really are failing to communicate here.  Of course refusing to take
|TM > crap
|TM > from the government -- whether that government is the USA, the USSR, or
|TM > the
|TM > O.T.O. for that matter -- is making trouble.  More power to it!
How then do _you_ define "troublemaker"?  I can think of several people who 
fit the description of:
|TM >  TM> ones willing to take the risks and push forward beyond the
|TM >  TM> edge of consensus.
who were or are anything but "troublemakers": Einstein, Beethoven, Heinlein, 
Heisenberg, Picasso, Yeager, Armstrong, Columbus, Gates, Jefferson, Gingrich, 
and so on.
 To me, a "troublemaker" has nothing to offer the world, and resents living in 
a world where nothing comes to those who offer nothing.  I would hardly call 
gossip, slander, and other disruptive behaviors admirable, or even 
constructive, let alone "pushing the edge of consensus".  Since they have no 
respect for the True Wills of others, as demonstrated by their ignorance of 
the self-evident principle of "your right to swing your fist ends where other 
peoples' noses begin", they obviously are ignorant of their own True Wills, 
making them the saddest excuses for humanity.  (Such people do, of course, 
liken themselves to great heroes, to the great laughter of those who can see 
through them.)
As for governments, it is they, and not those who stand up to their excesses, 
who are causing the "trouble".  (BTW, what "trouble" has the O.T.O.'s 
leadership caused?)  |TM > As for your new list of personality failings and 
crimes of the hated
|TM > "troublemakers" to whom you have denied initiation, I can only say that
|TM > it
|TM > is a change of course.  Before, their only motivation was to "make
|TM > trouble for
|TM > the Order."  Instead, now they're egotistical, manipulative, and
|TM > indiscreet --
|TM > a different litany of complaints and an incompatible psychological
|TM > explanation
|TM > for their behavior.  It seems to me that in your mind, these people are
|TM > fair
|TM > game for any and all criticism.  In short, you've demonized them.  I am
|TM > even
|TM > less convinced now that your original description of their motivations
|TM > was
|TM > correct.
 I see no contradiction; in fact, troublemakers are _very_ egotistical and 
manipulative.  Some of our members, and not just myself, have had run-ins 
with them, and we're quite familiar with their track records.  That's why 
_we_ don't want them around.  You, however, don't know them, and in a sense,
you're lucky.
93--93/93...


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From:    Herb Mitchell                          Area: Thelema
To:      Tony Iannotti                           1 Feb 95 06:52:00
Subject: Yallo?                                 Rec'd UpdReq 

Further to my last--
 >  TI>    I think there was a delayed link from here to Modem Magick. I
 >  TI> think it's fixed now.
 > I don't know; I'm still carrying two version of this, and still seeing some
 > messages in one (Thelema666) that don't show up in the other (Thelema).
Just did a message count, I've got 28 messages in Thelema666 and 48 in Thelema.


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