From: The Cegorach Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 30 Nov 94 12:21:40 Subject: Queries for OTO Members. Will I ever leave you guys alone?:-)UpdReq -=> To Meta Therion said to All (28 Nov 94 01:14:42) <=- Re: Queries for OTO Members. Will I ever leave you guys alone?:-) TMT> When you wanted to join the OTO, you probably met with members that TMT> had more ambition, drive, and magickal prowess than I have. I do not TMT> wish to bash the OTO, I just don't want to pay the $ and get less than TMT> I was bargaining for. I don't want to pay the cover charge if the band TMT> has already played, or for that matter never showed. Fair 'nuff. I see you've started asking questions, rather than just making assumptions; that's cool. BTW, a short disclaimer: I'm currently working 70+ hours a week, getting darned little appreciation for it, with no signs of relief in the near future; so understand that I get a bit cranky at times--but only on days that end in "y". ;) TMT> What degree are you if you don't mind me asking? TMT> What were your intentions in joining and how have they changed? TMT> What has the OTO given you that you could not have given yourself? TMT> Perhaps those questions should be given to all members. I'm just a TMT> lowly little beginner and I really would like to know if it is worth TMT> it. As mentioned before, I'm an Evil Associate; my intentions? I wanted to get the Order discount on Crowley's works. (grin) Just kidding...my intentions are/were simply to associate with others of a like mind, which brings us to your third question. What the OTO has given me that I couldn't give myself (other than The Magickal Link, :), of course) is simply the opportunity to interact with other people with a common interest. 'Course, one can get that via the Nets, too, and thus it should be no surprise that OTO and ALnet/NuitNet have an overlapping membership. :) I can find all the Bible-thumpers I want locally; I can even find quite a few wishy-washy New Agey Neo-Pagans. Of the local Neo-Pagan population that I consider to be intelligent enough/serious enough to merit interaction time with, several have a "Ceremonial Magick? Icky-poo" attitude. If I want people who a) share similar interests, and b) can tie their shoes and still have excess neural power available, the local scene just doesn't cut it...whereas both the Net and OTO fulfill these requirements. :) Enough rambling for ya? :) TMT> I read Eq. III, 10 and was a bit more turned off than on by the TMT> prospects. Perhaps our perspectives differ because I read Eq III, 10 *after* having already been active in ALnet for a while. I.e., my initial impression of OTO members was from the rather cool interactions via THELEMA, etc. By the time I hit the "Ancestor Worship" Equinox, I'd had sufficient experience with real, living/breathing members to see that Equinox as "neat, but not necessarily relevant." :) RD> that we are all 'partiers and drunken sots'? Surely you aren't getting RD> this impression from the posts on the THELEMA echo RD> which to *me* seem almost amazingly intelligent, RD> thoughtful, informed, and free from flaming. The TMT> No I am not. I do not know who is in the OTO on that echo and I am TMT> only judging by those that I met. Quick list: Christeos Pir, Paul Hume, Rose Dawn, Ar Aakhu-t (is he still 'round?), Kayla Block, Tony Iannotti...and, counting Evil Associates, me, too. :) ... Is not the starry heaven shaken as a leaf at the tremulous rapture? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: The Cegorach Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 30 Nov 94 12:36:12 Subject: Re: HIYA! Rec'd UpdReq -=> Rose Dawn said to The Cegorach (28 Nov 94 07:37:10) <=- Re: Re: HIYA! RD> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. RD> Try Mokerjee next. ;> Maybe it's just me--I detest books that ooze RD> sincerity. The HPB bio I'm reading for fun has the same kinda tone, RD> and just leaves me wishing I had something a little more RD> *substantial*. Hell, I hate books that *ooze*, period. :) (What? It's a book about Kali...you don't want that "awe-struck", "worshipful" tone? ;> ) Re: Mokerjee. Will try to remember him next time I'm at Dancing Moon (the local Pagan book store). If I ever get free time again. Bleh. > Yes, done the Sapphire. I used to alternate "normal" and "Thelemic" > rits. That is, one day, I'd do the LBRP, LBRH, and SIRP; the next, > it'd be Ruby, Sapphire, and Reguli.... RD> RD> Sheesh! No wonder you don't have time for your 'basic ritual program'. ;> I can't even remember Reguli, much less place it in line after SR/SS....I RD> have troulbe seeing any Hex ritual as a 'banishing' per se NEwayz, so RD> I'd do Ruby/Sapphire and leave Reguli out, even if I did have time. eh? Sapphire is a hex rit...I don't grok. If you've problems seeing a hex rit as banishing, why leave the 2nd *pentagram* ritual out? Exhausted minds want to know...and want it broken down into little, easily digestable pieces, thankyouverymuch. ;> Re: time for "basic rits". Heh, that's not even half of it. :) > Yeah. I still 'honor' the LBRP, and consider it quite valuable, > don't get me wrong. Personal preference, though, is quite undoubtedly > the Ruby. :) RD> For a straight banishing, can't be beat, sez I. ;> Yeah. Not "everyone, please rise, your attention please" (LBRP), but more like, oh, Sam Kinison--"Everybody, out! Out, out, out! Aaaaaaaagh!" Ye gods and little fishes, I *am* tired. :) >RD> after...specifically, going thru the Adorations part while doing the >RD> Surya asana series. Seems to be working ace. :> Making sure I understand correctly--the four paraphrased verses from AL/the Stele--"Unity uttermost showed...", etc., are done whilst doing the surya asana, rather than the LVX signs? How does one integrate them thusly? (I.e., wondering 'bout the timing/stage directions.) > Atlanta, GA is the closest site. Unless they've started doing them at > Blake. :( RD> RD> Bummer! You really *do* need to move to more civilized parts... . :/ RD> I don't think Blake celebrates Mass yet, you might wanna ask Paul or RD> Christeos if there's an Expected Starting Date yet. RD> ttyl! Oh, the perils of living in Redneck Country. Talk about Severe Ordeals! :) But perhaps we can "civilize" *this* part of it.... :) Reminds me of my best friend in high school...whenever we were travelling together, driving out in the middle of nowhere that constitutes rural North Carolina, he be rather pensive and moody. As soon as we saw a McDonald's sign, though, he'd holler, "Civilization!" and immediately brighten up. ;> ... Therefore went the prophet unto the mountain, and spake unto it. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: The Cegorach Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 30 Nov 94 12:39:10 Subject: Re: HIYA! UpdReq -=> Christeos Pir said to The Cegorach (28 Nov 94 20:07:17) <=- Re: Re: HIYA! CP> Patience, bro... we're pedalling as fast as we can. Visions of Christopher LLoyd: "We've got to go *faster*!" ;> Larry ... Borg spreadsheet program: Locutus 1-2-3 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 28 Nov 94 22:59:12 Subject: Crowley on CDROM? Rec'd UpdReq TI> Michelle Hass wrote in a message to Tony Iannotti: MH> So it's going to happen? JOY!!! I gotta get my upgrade now! MH> 386 or 486 DX motherboard, 8Meg Ram, CD Rom drive, SVGA MH> monitor and card....please Goddess please Goddess please MH> please please!!!!! TI> It's basically inevitable, and has been, it's just TI> that now it's affordable. If nobody official does it, I will in 95. I would propose that it be done in HTML, or the Hyper Text Markup Language, a specialized version of SGML (Standard Generalized Markup Language). HTML is what World Wide Web uses. And it is royalty free to use! I expect in the next 6 months to become an "expert" in HTML..or more exactly, I have to become an expert for my job. I can tentativly volenteer to either do, or help in the coding of putting stuff into HTML...and HTML supports audio, graphics and video, as well as hyperlinks to other documents locally, or anywhere on Internet, if hooked up to the World Wide Web. There are browsers for virutally all computers...x-windows, MS-Windoze, Mac, DOS/Unix/VAX charactor mode (who don't see the graphics...). I write multi-media apps for Touch Communications. One of the apps I wrote for BC-Film, they took out a 3/4 page ad in Variety to advertise. So I hope I have some idea of multi-media developing. ttyl Farrell Development Engineer Touch Communications. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: All 29 Nov 94 15:09:02 Subject: Crowley cult? UpdReq I recently read a book that achieved so much popularity from Fundamentalists that it had to be reprinted and updated. It was titled the New book of cults or something like that. Anyway, It had an interesting section that complained about the usual Crowley misconceptions and some truths, but what I found amazing was the errors section they provided. The error section is a place where the author (nameless, because I forgot) used quips and quotes from the Bible to support the destruction/avoidance of the cult in question. I was in the book store as I perused this and decided to compare this man's supposed claim. It delt with 1 Timothy 4:1-3 or 4. It said something about being misleaded by demons and a leader with no conscience in his book, but when I glanced at a few different editions of the Bible, I found these passages to be quite different from the paraphrase that this author gave. It was a warning against following those that will deny you full satisfaction of all of God's gifts. Those that say fast and avoid the pleasures of life. Interesting how the words can be misconstrued by such an "authority" as this author. I know this post is a bit awkward, but I am working from a disenchanted memory. Perhaps I will find his name next time I go to the local book shop and post it so all can have a laugh. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Fir 29 Nov 94 15:17:50 Subject: Solar enlightenment UpdReq F> Have you seen any correlation in your solitary work and F> initiations where you might say that once started on the path F> one should continue until they reach at least a certain station? Sorry to butt in, but I have a feeling according to my initiation that it is not something that I attempt, but something that comes to me when the time is right, perhaps guided by my HGA. When I look back I can see forces pushing me in particular directions and getting me ready for the next steps, and I find it exceedingly interesting to ponder for about 5 minutes. I think the process should continue on indefinately, but at times, certain people will not find it in accord with there true will to pass on to a different stage of initiation. As I said, with me it just occured when the time was right (being solitary, there was no elaborate ritual, but it did follow the process that Josh outlined in his earlier post.) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 29 Nov 94 15:23:18 Subject: OTO UpdReq Is there any reason why the office of XI* was shut down? It seems a mystery to me. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: JOSEPH MAX Area: Thelema To: MICHELLE HASS 27 Nov 94 11:49:00 Subject: RE: CHAOS MAGICK PRACTIC UpdReq -=> Quoting Michelle Hass to Joseph Max <=- Fi> In all fairness, the GD's systematic approach to magick is not a bad Fi> way to approach getting into Enochian magick. JM> No, it isn't. It does reflect, however, the great amount of "moral" JM> indoctrination involved in going through the GD's grade system. This is JM> very common amongst magical orders, and the GD is hardly alone in this. JM> Most of the "vernerable" old Orders insist on indoctrinating the JM> beginner into a strict moral system before imparting any of the actual JM> techniques of magical work. As I see it, this is the main divergence JM> between practitoners of Chaos Magic (especially within such groups as JM> the Pact and the AutonomatriX) and the traditional orders: Chaos Magic JM> is morally "neutral". This is not to say that Chaotes have no ethics - JM> not at all. But they must find their ethical doctrines elsewhere; it is JM> not attached to the study of magic itself. JM> Well, a lot of what I was referring to was not the mechanics of ritual JM> work itself - as I pointed out later, I _love_ a good ritual! I was JM> referring rather to what I mentioned above - the "moral indoctrination" JM> that goes along with the technique. About 90% of the Neophyte Ritual is JM> preaching about codes of morality, and pounding these precepts into the JM> applicants brain with threats of painful, gooey death! MH> I took my Neophyte in the Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn, and let MH> me say, without revealing too much, that outside from pledging my MH> upholding and promotion of the Law of Thelema, there was absolutely no MH> moral indoctrination whatsoever in the Neophyte ritual. It had more to MH> do with internal attitudes and hidden feelings than anything else. It MH> had a lot to do with the psychological, as would be expected in an MH> order founded by an active psychotherapist, Dr. Christopher Hyatt. Well, the discussion here centered on the Enochian system as approached by the Golden Dawn, and the only one that's known is the old Stellar Matutina as described by Regardie. In order to persue Enochian magic in the SM-GD, one had to first become an Adeptus Minor before they would even let you know much of _anything_ about Enochia, except for a few hints. So unless the TOGD incorporates Enochia into their system _and_ allows it's Neophytes to practice Enochian magic freely, then my original critique still applies. "Pledging your upholding and promoting the Law of Thelema" is in itself a moral indoctrination, as Thelema is itself a moral doctrine. Nothing against Thelema - it is as close to my own personal philosophy as anything else! But to be required by oath to adhere to _any_ particular moral philosophy before being allowed to learn technique is the kind of restriction I'm talking about (and we know what "restriction" is the name of, right...?) MH> I am no longer associated with them, and have decided to continue my MH> work without affiliating with any magickal order. But that does not MH> mean their approach might not have value to other people according to MH> their personal temperment and Will. I never claimed otherwise. Some people need artificial limits placed on them in order to feel comfortable. I just think it should be clear that such limits _are_ artificial, and there are those out there who do not need them. - J:.M:.555 ... Reality crept in and I nailed it for trespassing! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Fir 27 Nov 94 13:54:00 Subject: Chaos magick practice UpdReq -=> Quoting Fir to Joseph Max <=- Fi> Hi Joseph, Fi> JM and JN. Talk about confusing. From my perspective reading this Fi> post, I don't see you 2 as being on opposites sides of everything. I don't think we are. I'm just being contrarian. --- X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 28 Nov 94 15:05:02 Subject: Kundalini UpdReq TMT> I am not sure if you are the right person to ask, but you TMT> seem knowledgable about many topics. TMT> When people speak about obsession and Kundalini, what is TMT> the correct way to access it. Hmmm. I would suggest you ask Rose Dawn about this. She's much more knowledgeable than I when it comes to eastern disciplines. And I think she still moderates the Nuitnet Tantra echo -- is that right Rose? I haven't worked directly with kundalini in a long, long time. And as with everything else I don't use frequently, my knowledge in that area has fallen into the black hole of memory. I wouldn't feel comfortable advising you. ... Is that a snake in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me? ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Fir 29 Nov 94 15:20:06 Subject: Solar enlightenment UpdReq F> Hi Josh! Hi! F> Well in the GD when a candidate starts on an initiatory path F> they are sometimes given a spiel about are you sure you want F> to do this, what are you doing, etc. F> Theoretically each of the initations deals with one element F> and so the candidate is not considered to be put back together or F> whole until they've completed all the elements. I'm not sure that the GD thought about its initiations in terms of deconstruction and reconstruction of the psyche. The original outer- order ceremonies seem to me to be more along the lines of a progressive series of consecrations of the candidate, each one relating to a different element. What the candidate is supposed to _do_ with it -- in terms of self-change -- is very poorly handled, IMO. F> In Wicca, some would say that it's not a good idea to hang out F> in 2nd degree indefinitely, that if one is going to take 2nd F> degree that one should eventually go on to take 3rd. F> Have you seen any correlation in your solitary work and F> initiations where you might say that once started on the path F> one should continue until they reach at least a certain station? Mmmm...no, I don't think so. I assume that you define initiation as a progressive process of learning to perceive, control and use different parts of one's being, and not simply as exposing someone to a particular set of energies and ideas. Given this, it seems to me that every person will have a "natural" grade, which is their point of greatest progress over the course of previous lives. Once a person reaches this point, their forward progress will probably slow appreciably -- even appear to stop from an another's viewpoint. Instead they will spread "outwards" within that particular level, learning to use its facilities in detail. Conceivably, one might spend several lifetimes in a given level. And I believe this to be the case for most people, including the majority who never get interested in magick or spiritual things as a serious part of life. Mundane existence provides all the circumstances one really needs for going through the lowest four grades, and most aspects of the next three. Someone might go through a series of initiations until they reach their level, and then suddenly find themselves wanting to go in other directions. (It could happen at any level. My old friend Janette was obsessed with magick until she attained what I am certain was the knowledge & conversation of her H.G.A.; then she discovered that her true will was to become a yuppie housewife and mother, and dropped magick completely.) I don't think there will be a great deal of benefit in "forcing" someone beyond their natural grade, assuming that the initiators are actually capable of doing so. It probably won't harm them in any way, but the benefits will be transitory. OTOH, they won't know what their natural grade is until they've tried to push beyond it, so it's worth going forward at least until they don't get anything out of it any more. ... Antelope Freeway, 5 mi. ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Doug Plexico 28 Nov 94 04:09:26 Subject: Copy-rights... UpdReq 93! DP> In the US, a book is supposed to only have a 25 year copyright and after DP> that it becomes public domain. At least this is from my understanding. Only if the person or corporation that owns the rights refrains from renewing them. BTW, you may wish to check on the 25 years; people I know who copyright stuff tell me it's 28. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Zepher Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 29 Nov 94 15:37:56 Subject: Re: book of coming forth 1/ UpdReq Hi Josh, thanks for taking the time to respond to my message. I'm not looking for answers in regards to my comments but only perhaps for my questions if you so desire. Just as you, I'm starting to get somewhat weary with this thread so I'll try to keep it brief. JN> I've also chopped out most of the sneers and condecension. Hmmm, I thought it was okay to add some seeing that you had a share in your messages. JN> Who judges who is "worthy"? You? And what qualifies you -- or JN> anyone -- to be such a judge? Worthy as in being honorable, deserving, and useful. Yes me! Wow, your amazing Josh, you answered your own question! Are you really so surprised that I would be the judge? Why do you hold such contempt toward my maintaining the ability to judge for myself? What qualifies me is study, hard work, and experience. Yes, it would seem pretentious for anyone one to think they have the edge on knowing someone other than perhaps their own self - which many seem to fall short as well. I realize this and with it realize that any judgement may be at fault. Over the years I have watched many who claim to be "seekers of the mysteries". I've dealt with their lies and insincerities. They would take what is given leaving little more than the wind in their wake. I've acquired a distaste for those who provide little else than ego feeding. I've learned that my path is for very few and to be more discreet and discerning otherwise my most precious and meaningful thoughts and findings would be left open like a box of rich chocolate candies among hungry children. They taste one and find it delicious, filling themselves till their sick. Once they recover, wiping vomit and spittle from their quivering little mouths on to their sleeves they will point an accusing finger whimpering that it was the candy which made them sick. It saves me heartache and time when I carefully consider if someone is worthy. If this sounds arrogant and snobbish, well that's just too bad. I can't please everyone, nor do I intend to. For myself, I don't consider anyone worthy to judge me unless I submit myself to their judgement. When I have, and do, I realize that they too don't know everything that may be relevant, especially in regards to metaphysics and my understanding and practice of magic. Therefore, I look at their judgement for what it is and carefully consider what to use from it and what to discard. JN> No, it's a deliberately cultivated _magickal_attitude_, akin JN> to the injunction in medieval grimoires to buy your materials JN> without haggling. This is something different from a mere JN> delusion, in that it is done deliberately and with intent. JN> Every effective piece of magick works by the magician's JN> creating in himself a state in which his entire will is JN> focused on the immediate actions and symbols of the ceremony. JN> This simply extends the principle beyond the confines of the JN> formal ceremony. I should have underlined where I quoted you saying "unconditionally and without expectation of any return". My point is that there ARE conditions and that you most certainly do have expectations of a return. You verify this [perhaps if only subconsciously] when you said the following which I highlighted with asterisks: "It's **beneficial** to those who do it. Giving away the knowledge, power, and understanding you get from initiation, unconditionally and without expectation of any return, **always results in the giver getting _more_ knowledge, power, and understanding to replace it.**" This is the same rational Christians maintain when they declare their love and "souls" to their god "unconditionally" when they're constantly reminded of the wonderful bliss they are promised if they give such things to him. JN> Forgive me, but that's all bullshit. Forgive you? Ahhh... No. JN> Given that every individual is unique -- something that the JN> ToS also asserts -- then whatever you reveal in the way of JN> "secrets" will necessarily have to be adapted to that person's JN> nature and circumstances before it can be put into practice. JN> If he is incapable of adapting it, then he can't be harmed by JN> it; for him, it will remain nothing more than an intellectual JN> curiosity. It doesn't take a Ph D to pull a trigger on a gun. I would like to compare the revealing of such "secrets" to the reading of the first page of a novel and then skipping over all the other pages only to read the last. There are some important elements that are missed which could mean all the difference to ones comprehension of the book/Initiation. Now because a large percentage of the book was missed it is probable that it will be misunderstood and misrepresented causing others to misinterpret something that may be profoundly important which they may throw on the wayside for perhaps someone to stub their toe. And if this toe stubber finds it he/she may already have preconceptions that misrepresent it's true meaning. Also, this misunderstanding can develop into animosity which is not conducive toward the productive sharing of information. JN> You are showing here the arrogance common to many ToSers. Of course, and I, in turn, could very well point out instances where you show signs of arrogance as well. JN> You see yourselves as somehow qualified to judge other people, Yes, I am qualified to judge others. Often it's later determined [by me and sometimes with the aid & insight of others I trust] that I was correct in my judgement, and of course, sometimes I'm way off. However, most often I find that I'm still better qualified than anyone else I know. JN> and to judge what's good for them, better than they can do so JN> themselves. They're your words, not mine. I am responsible for and concerned with any direct or indirect result of my work and what I reveal that may effect me and those whom I care for because of my action or inaction. I've already discussed my qualifications to judge. JN> So what if someone might take what you give and hurt himself JN> with it? It's his life, his responsibility, and his choice to JN> do so. This would be fine as long as it's not detrimental to me or those I care for. Z>> Is this to say that there exists an elite group of humans? I really didn't expect nor want an answer to this question because I realized the argumentative nature of it. I said it more or less as a joke. I do however disagree with you but I see no reason to elaborate other than to argue irrelevant issues that is not at the crux of this thread. Josh, I'm quite busy so I'll get back to you with the other messages tomorrow. Thank's. [ Continued In Next Message "Tomorrow..." ] * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 39 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Brian Watts Area: Thelema To: Zepher 27 Nov 94 03:07:00 Subject: book of coming forth 1/ UpdReq 93 Zepher! Ze> Like you, I see benefit in the sharing (but only to those who prove Ze> themselves worthy) of thoughts and findings in Initiation, which Ze> seems to be a necessary element (more for some than others), though Ze> apparently we see this on different grounds. Your reasoning for We (I use "we" to mean "people whose opinion on this is the same as mine") do not feel that we are necessarily capable of determining who is "worthy" of such knowlege. If they are the info will work for them. If they aren't it won't. The knowlege determines who is worthy. Ze> sharing is what most would consider as noble, however practitioners Ze> of the LHP realize that your "giving away the knowledge, power, and Ze> understanding from initiation unconditionally and without Ze> expectation of any return" is evidence of self-delusion. Such We RHPers aren't necessarily giving away "power" or "understanding" but only information. If they aren't capable of using the work they gain no power. And it's not like the knowlege is not available. Anyone capable can get it from their HGA. I personally think that your opinion of just letting see some of your works is letting them take some of your "power" is evidence of YOUR self-delusion. Magickal power is not a pie where if someone else gets some more, then you get a smaller slice. Ze> delusion is common place in RHP ideas and practices, which lead to Ze> other corruptions within their teachings. In my opinion, this one Ze> fact more or less invalidates much of what ensues, but does not at Ze> all mean that nothing of value can be found. And what difference is that from your LHP doctrine of sharing info within the group. After all, from what I understand of your reasoning, there is no need to share it because by the time that a person deserves to look at those documents, they will have already experienced what is contained therein and the whole point is moot. Z>> How can you gain mastery over the Universe when you previously Z>> relinquished your intellect and merged your consciousness with Z>> it? You in effect detract into an undistinguishable ingredient Z>> intermixed in a quagmire of non-consciousness. The very pith Z>> of what made you distinct from everything else is dissolved. Everything we touch changes us. to avoid the affect we must remove ourselves from that which we seek to master. How can you master that which you are afraid to touch. Oh well, guess this is why RHPers and LHPers argue eh? 93 93 93 ... The truth is ugly, so we put our prophets in prison. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 30 Nov 94 00:39:36 Subject: CD-ROMs Rec'd UpdReq TI> One: You're right. More apppropriate for the Crowley TI> display at the wax museum. Two: No, they are still TI> pretty bad, though you can do a lot with an equalizer. TI> Three: Big problem. Well, there is some really good digital technology out there...for example, a fairly popular Canadian band from the '70s & early '80s, FM, had their record company (CBC) loose their master tapes....so when it came time to issue a CD version, they had to go and master it off vinyl...and this snazzy machine that the CBC has for updating old masters for CD re-issue...you get to graphically say "This is a snare drum sound, and this is vinyl static, keep the former, and eliminate the latter". It is a very time consuming process, but as someone who has listened to their Black Noise album on some really high-end audiophile systems, and then listening to it on CD mastered from vinyl via this digital processing system...I must say that I am impressed...I didn't think that it was mastered off an album...it is that good. Now that technology is a $80,000 machine today...in a year, that will be $20,000, and two, $5,000. So in a couple of years I can see the recordings being remastered with this tech...or sooner with someone who wants it done and has deep pockets. ttyl Farrell 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Farrell McGovern 1 Dec 94 06:59:26 Subject: Crowley on CDROM? UpdReq FM> I would propose that it be done in HTML, or the Hyper Text FM> Markup Language, a specialized version of SGML FM> (Standard Generalized Markup Language). HTML is what FM> World Wide Web uses. And it is royalty free to use! I That sounds good to me! I set up a home page for Prentice Hall, though I have moved on to other things, and their server is still not public. I am a long-time aquaintance of SGML. FM> expect in the next 6 months to become an "expert" in FM> HTML..or more exactly, I have to become an expert for FM> my job. I can tentativly volenteer to either do, or FM> help in the coding of putting stuff into HTML...and I would expect you could completely master the basics in more like a week, though the CGI scripts, and position-sensitive bitmaps take a bit more programming. If you are already a programmer, that too should not be that diffucult. FM> HTML supports audio, graphics and video, as well as FM> hyperlinks to other documents locally, or anywhere on FM> Internet, if hooked up to the World Wide Web. There FM> are browsers for virutally all computers...x-windows, FM> MS-Windoze, Mac, DOS/Unix/VAX charactor mode (who FM> don't see the graphics...). Yep, in fact, that would be a good way to have it available for peer review as a work in progress before any CDs get burned. Anybody got a WWW server available? FM> I write multi-media apps for Touch FM> Communications. One of the apps I wrote for BC-Film, FM> they took out a 3/4 page ad in Variety to advertise. FM> So I hope I have some idea of multi-media developing. Sure sounds like it! Any interest in this project? I would understand completely if you said it's too far and too much for someone with a full-time job and a life..... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Farrell McGovern 1 Dec 94 07:05:40 Subject: CD-ROMs UpdReq FM> master it off vinyl...and this snazzy machine that the FM> CBC has for updating old masters for CD re-issue...you FM> get to graphically say "This is a snare drum sound, FM> and this is vinyl static, keep the former, and FM> eliminate the latter". It is a very time consuming Yes, someone at Golden Egg Productions in LA was supposed to do that for us to the AC 78s, but as Huck Finn said of p rayer, "nuffin come of it." FM> Now that technology is a $80,000 machine FM> today...in a year, that will be $20,000, and two, FM> $5,000. So in a couple of years I can see the FM> recordings being remastered with this tech...or sooner FM> with someone who wants it done and has deep pockets. Well, for the OTO's purposes, it would be a one shot deal, not worth the purchase of it, but rather rental or having some studio do it, though as I mentioned, someone offered. We should stick to commercial deals instead of volunteers. (Were the money available.....) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718