From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 28 Nov 94 20:00:14 Subject: Stargate (2 of 4) UpdReq -=> Josh Norton sent a message to Michael Aquino on 22 Nov 94 17:39:00 <=- -=> Re: Stargate (2 of 4) <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. JN> Anybody know what the true angle of the shaft is? That's easy: "The angle of the dangle is proportional to the heat of the meat." Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... O cobbler! mend me this shoe, that I may walk. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 28 Nov 94 20:02:28 Subject: God AC? Goddess Forbid! UpdReq -=> To Meta Therion sent a message to Michelle Hass on 23 Nov 94 15:48:54 <=- -=> Re: God AC? Goddess Forbid! <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. TMT> Isn't it odd that his most avid readers are also the most avid TMT> disobeyers of his one unavoidable philosphy: Doubt until the very end TMT> of infinity? Speak for yourself. None of the Thelemites I know are mindless Crowley-bots. TMT> Perhaps that is why Grant receives such a bad review. He constantly TMT> challenges Crowley's writing and, I think appropriately, attributes TMT> many of his misinterpretations coming from an old aeon birth. Gee, couldn't have _anything_ to do with the fact that he sounds like a cross between Waite and Spaceship Ruthie, could it? Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... Urizen Wept. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 28 Nov 94 20:04:18 Subject: Great God AC? UpdReq -=> To Meta Therion sent a message to Tony Iannotti on 23 Nov 94 15:51:48 <=- -=> Re: Great God AC? <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. TMT> Also, Eq III #10 seems to establish an elitist organization that TMT> revolves around and praises Crowley to a greater extent than I believe TMT> is healthy for a questioning mind. Baphomet did this...did that...did TMT> the other...you must also because his laws are the laws of the aeon. TMT> Well, that doesn't settle with me. Especially the rules pertaining to TMT> the necessary tasks that are not magickal that must be met to advance TMT> grades As usual, you speak ill of that about which you have no experience. I suggest you gather all your belongings, sell them, and buy a clue. Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... Attempting to be more than Man we become less 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 28 Nov 94 20:05:34 Subject: OTO UpdReq -=> To Meta Therion sent a message to Paul Hume on 23 Nov 94 15:56:32 <=- -=> Re: OTO <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. TMT> 7th and the degrees that are that high are the only degrees that can TMT> not be accessed directly by published material. It is the secret of TMT> the 9th degree that I would be interested in above all, and unless I TMT> am mistaken, there are none that hold that degree at this time. Wrong again, as usual. Twice in one paragraph, in fact. Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... Eternity is in love with the productions of time. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 28 Nov 94 20:07:16 Subject: Re: HIYA! UpdReq -=> The Cegorach sent a message to Rose Dawn on 25 Nov 94 09:16:04 <=- -=> Re: Re: HIYA! <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. TC> Atlanta, GA is the closest site. Unless they've started doing them at TC> Blake. :( Patience, bro... we're pedalling as fast as we can. Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... O Thou who transcendest the Forces in their Concourse and Cohesion, 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: The Cegorach Area: Thelema To: Fir 28 Nov 94 01:05:10 Subject: _Modern Magick_ Rec'd UpdReq To answer your question, Fir, I was more or less in the last chapter of Kraig's book when I changed jobs; since then, I've had next to no time, and my schedule's all weird, too. I'm just now getting over being nocturnal. Hmph. Maybe not. I'm usually up till 4 or 5 am still anyway. :) Working on picking it back up again...i.e., the daily Resh, asana, pranayama (which I'd *just* started), and pent and hex rits.... Larry ... When "wide open spaces" brings parking to mind, die. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: The Cegorach Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 29 Nov 94 03:13:04 Subject: OTO UpdReq -=> To Meta Therion said to The Cegorach (27 Nov 94 23:47:20) <=- Re: OTO TC> Re: the ninth. You should be able to figure out the 'secret' of the TC> ninth degree from publically available material. TC> Re: holders of the IXth...well, there must be at least *one*. TC> Hymenaeus Beta holds the Xth, which rather presupposes the IXth, does TC> it not? Bill Heidrick is also a IXth, is he not? Again, publically TC> available info.... TMT> I am not familiar with Heidrick. Hymanaeus Beta is assumed which is TMT> probably a fault of mine. I have personally never met an initiate TMT> over the 3rd degree. I'm not really certain that this is a bad thing TMT> either. Perhaps the reason that i am turned off by the OTO right now TMT> is the same reason that the people that I met were not advanced TMT> members? I'm only an Evil Associate, myself. :) Anyway, the fact that you thought the IXth "extinct" makes me wonder about how thoroughly you've "done your homework", and to question the conclusions drawn therefrom. IOW, perhaps the reason you're turned off by the OTO right now is because you've not checked it out very thoroughly, or didn't subject the data you had to much analysis. Maybe you've not explored all the opportunities you've had to meet "advanced" members. Maybe you *have* met them, and didn't know it. I only know of a handful of "higher ups" myself, and those *I've* interacted with didn't exactly carry a placard saying, "Frater Fill- in-the-blank, Sovereign of the Sanctuary of the Gnosis". BTW, Bill Heidrick is the Grand Secretary General, a IXth degree member, and frequents alt.magick, as well as having much electronically available...from various editorials and musings in _Thelema Lodge Calendar News_ to electronic essays (The View from Tiphareth comes to mind). IOW, he's got *lots* of public exposure. At least a couple of IV+ members hang out on this very echo, TMT, so you've apparently not looked very hard, or very long. A metaphor: You're looking at the Statue of Liberty's feet, and critiquing the entire statue based on that.... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 29 Nov 94 11:08:44 Subject: Re: MASS OF PHOENIX UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. > So, it's out? Apparently not...though I coulda sworn I'd heard ref to its being available. Fir probably knows a lot more than I do...let's ask her? Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: Fir 29 Nov 94 11:15:46 Subject: Re: SOLAR ENLIGHTENMENT UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Howdy Fir. > In Wicca, some would say that it's not a good idea to hang out > in 2nd degree indefinitely, that if one is going to take 2nd > degree that one should eventually go on to take 3rd. Do they say the same thing about Ist Degree? Is that considered sort of a 'pendant' in Wiccan traditions? > Have you seen any correlation in your solitary work and > initiations where you might say that once started on the path > one should continue until they reach at least a certain station? That's an interesting question, and forgive me for butting in. ;> I'll also be looking forward to Josh's response....I'm wondering if it's really *possible* to stop once you've commenced on a solitary initiatory path. My personal take would be, one should continue until one is *done*...however that might manifest. Hear anything further about the women of the GD book? Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 29 Nov 94 11:45:12 Subject: Re: QUERIES FOR OTO MEMBERS. WILL I EVUpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. > When you wanted to join the OTO, you probably met with members that > had more ambition, drive, and magickal prowess than I have. I do That's possible. It's also possible that the O.T.O. isn't 'for you'...only you can decide that. > not wish to bash the OTO, I just don't want to pay the $ and get > less than I was bargaining for. > I don't want to pay the cover charge if the band has already played, > or for that matter never showed. Have you considered the role the tone of your posts might be playing in hampering your ability to have meaningful dialogue with intelligent, sincere O.T.O. initiates? That isn't meant as a flame...but when an individual's initial presentation involves carping about fundie Thelemites and bemoaning the lack of serious magicians in with all the partying drunken sots, it's more likely to provoke slightly pissed-off responses, than if one's tone is more neutral. I don't know if you'd get what you were 'bargaining' for, or less than, or more than, since I don't have any way of knowing what it is you're looking for. What would your own personal reasons in joining an Order--any Order--be? You could say "I don't want to pay the cover charge, since I already have the CD"...IOW, I don't think the O.T.O. or any other organization can 'give' you any answers that you couldn't find yourself...but live shows can be a lot more rewarding than sitting home alone with the radio on. ;> > What degree are you if you don't mind me asking? Ist. > What were your intentions in joining and how have they changed? I wanted to make a 'public statement' of my agreement with the Law of Thelema by officially affiliating with the O.T.O., and to learn all that I could from fundamentally like-minded people who still believe in and encourage thinking for oneself and expressing the full diversity of human opinion, to add my own personal voice to the '93 Current,' and jump-start the personal investigations by hanging out with people who've been there, done that, and are willing to discuss their experiences without constraining my own personal experimentation. I don't think they've 'changed' at all...just narrowed a little here, expanded a bit there, and hopefully deepend a little all the way around. > What has the OTO given you that you could not have given yourself? Several obvious things, such as a ready fraternity of people who *generally* see things the way I do and share the same intents and interests, with a wide range of individuals, including those with a lot more experience in various areas than I have, those around the same basic point as I, and those with less experience, all of whom have stuff to 'teach' me, if I'm willing to listen. The most important benefits I've gotten from my O.T.O. affiliation are harder to explain, though. The initiation rituals are able to tap in and grab hold and really kick the personal, individual 'inner init' stuff into high gear, in ways so intense that my head's still spinning sometimes. I'm not a scholar or a philosopher, so I don't exactly understand it...I just know I grabbed the current with both hands, and it hasn't let me down. Whether it would be the same for you, or any other individual, I couldn't speculate. > Perhaps those questions should be given to all members. I'm just a > lowly little beginner and I really would like to know if it is worth > it. Again, the answers are only 'true' for the individual giving them. For me, it has been, and continues to be, worth it. > I was not aware of your affiliation, and I believe that the above > questions will allow me to do so. A bit better than comin out the bag, at any rate! ;> Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 29 Nov 94 22:16:50 Subject: Re: SOLAR ENLIGHTENMENT UpdReq Hi Rose Dawn, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. >> In Wicca, some would say that it's not a good idea to hang out >> in 2nd degree indefinitely, that if one is going to take 2nd >> degree that one should eventually go on to take 3rd. > > Do they say the same thing about Ist Degree? Is that considered sort > of a 'pendant' in Wiccan traditions? Nope, haven't heard any warnings myself about hanging out indefinitely at 1rst degree in Wicca. First degree is supposed to be associated with the Goddess and 2nd degree with the God. Supposed to be lots of 'ordeals' associated with 2nd. Third Degrees are supposed to bring at least one other person up to third degree, just as a GD Adept is I believe supposed to make another one just like them. This kind of requirement always smacks of prostletizing to me so I don't approve of it. > I'll also be looking forward to Josh's response....I'm wondering if > it's really *possible* to stop once you've commenced on a solitary > initiatory path. My personal take would be, one should continue > until one is *done*...however that might manifest. LOL. Like one who is conscientious (true to one self) has a choice. > Hear anything further about the women of the GD book? Only what I posted you about the author but not in the stores yet. Picked up the King Tantra book tonight BTW. Will take a look at the chapter you mentioned. Love is the law, love under will, Fir 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718