From: Paul Hume Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 28 Nov 94 18:49:52 Subject: OTO UpdReq TMT - 93. TMT> published material. It is the secret of the 9th TMT> degree that I would be interested in above all, TMT> and unless I am mistaken, there are none that hold TMT> that degree at this time. There are folks holding IX's passed on by folks who had IX's, etc., so thje degree is active (you may be thinking of the Caliph's decision not to recognize XIo officially?). I believe Brother Tim remarked a few years ago that the "secret" of the IX was pretty much THERE, in Magick In Theory & Practice, given some years experiment and thought - ie. the specific implementation of sexual magick the "OTO way." Whether he got it right, or my take is right, or what-have-you, and right being defined as whatever the IX work trains you in, nobody's gonna know until they take IX, whereupon they aren't likely to be telling the rest of us (in part, I suspect, because you can talk the mechanics of magical schtupping all you like, but that won't make it meaningful for anyone who hasn't done the prep work step by bloody step). But that is far afield - the IX is alive and well, as far as I know, in the OTO. Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Paul Hume Area: Thelema To: Doug Plexico 28 Nov 94 18:57:32 Subject: Copy-rights... UpdReq Doug - Present US copyright law is death of author + fifty years. However, this is only for books written after a given cut-off date. Books copyrighted earlier, at least some of them, come under the law you refer to - but that was that a copyright was good for 26 years (a "generation") and the author or his estate could renew it for another 26 years (whether the heirs could do this ad infinitum I dunno). If, f'rinstance, you take a public domain work - Liber AL, or the King James Bible - and publish it with commentary, your commentary is copyrighted, but the text is not. However, if you translated a work into English, that translation IS your intellectual property, and can be copyrighted (mind you, it has to differ substantially from prior art in translating the same work, and of course if the original work is still in copyright the original author can sue for possession of the translatiion';s rights as well). Copyright law makes many other fields look like a spring walk - except fort things like trademark law, whichg makes copyright look like Mary Had a Little Lamb. Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 28 Nov 94 00:42:28 Subject: God AC? Goddess Forbid! UpdReq TMT> attributes many of his misinterpretations coming from an TMT> old aeon birth. JN> As opposed to Grant's new aeon misinterpretations? Which misinterpretations do you make reference to? I am genuinely curious, because I tend to throw away a bit and take a bit from Grant, and I really don't want to get stuck taking the wrong advice. I do not see any of Grant's materials that I have read to be of much assistance other than stimulating thought that leads me to other topics that he doesn't discuss directly. What's the point of this post? I lost track of what I was saying. Anyway, I think Grant makes some interesting points, but I would definately not suggest that he should be taken seriously in all counts. I think his sense of humor is a bit warped, and it's hard to distinguish it from the parts in his work that hold merit. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Kevin Bold 28 Nov 94 00:48:40 Subject: OTO UpdReq KB> 111 members in your TMT> lodge? Just curious. KB> Are you sure it isn't "until you've brought 111 people KB> into the order"? And do you have to bring them in KB> yourself, or do those brought into the order by those KB> whom you have brought into the order count? KB> Anyway, I get a lot of people telling me that that is bunk anyway, but if it was true, it would explain all the camps established apart from the lodges. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 28 Nov 94 00:50:24 Subject: OTO UpdReq TC> Re: the ninth. You should be able to figure out the 'secret' of the TC> ninth degree from publically available material. TC> Re: holders of the IXth...well, there must be at least *one*. TC> Re: the ninth. You should be able to figure out the 'secret' of the TC> ninth degree from publically available material. It's the use of the secret that is difficult to ascertain. a Xth degree doesn't necessarily have to be a 9th does s/he? The OHO can be chosen from a Minerval if the conditions are right. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: All 28 Nov 94 00:52:44 Subject: OTO UpdReq I have gotten varied reactions from my previous posts. This is good. I was hoping that there would be people out there that could give me faith in the OTO. I must say that I did get a few nasty letters though. Part of it had to do with my experiences with members being quite undertrained and uncreative. Again, these are MY experiences and that is all I can say to defend myself in that case. I did like a response that said something to the affect that one should not "rewrite" AL, but one should make their own interpretations. This agrees totally with my thoughts on Thelema. I would not wish to write AL myself, but neither do I want to hear other people's "enlightened interpretations" when they are not willing to hear mine, or present them in a peaceful manner. Hell, when I gather around Thelemites in the areas that I have been, they tend to A) avoid all talk about Thelema and drink alot. B) Exagerrate their success and build a large ego in doing so. I would like to meet a serious member, but I don't exactly know where to look and where to avoid. By the way, Even though the OTO is a fraternal/sororal organization, is it possible to join and remain solitary and without connections to a lodge or camp? Also, Grant makes reference to the XIth degree as being non homosexual and seemed to hint at certain kalas that appear while a female is menstruating. I mention this because there were certain arguements posted about whether a female could attain this degree. If Grant was right then this could be the reason. Anyone know about this at all? I hate long posts. Bye. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: All 28 Nov 94 01:14:42 Subject: Queries for OTO Members. Will I ever leave you guys alone?:-)UpdReq * Original Area: OC_BOOK_REVIEW * Original To : Rose Dawn (93:9600/0) * Original Subj: Re: CULT OF THE SHADOWS RD> Is this the manifestation of 'Therion's New Attitude'-- RD> rather than generally bagging on everyone you come RD> across, you've narrowed your focus to bashing the O.T.O. and its members? When you wanted to join the OTO, you probably met with members that had more ambition, drive, and magickal prowess than I have. I do not wish to bash the OTO, I just don't want to pay the $ and get less than I was bargaining for. I don't want to pay the cover charge if the band has already played, or for that matter never showed. What degree are you if you don't mind me asking? What were your intentions in joining and how have they changed? What has the OTO given you that you could not have given yourself? Perhaps those questions should be given to all members. I'm just a lowly little beginner and I really would like to know if it is worth it. I read Eq. III, 10 and was a bit more turned off than on by the prospects. RD> that we are all 'partiers and drunken sots'? Surely you aren't getting RD> this impression from the posts on the THELEMA echo RD> which to *me* seem almost amazingly intelligent, RD> thoughtful, informed, and free from flaming. The No I am not. I do not know who is in the OTO on that echo and I am only judging by those that I met. RD> to be a partying drunken sot. I don't even drink RD> alcohol, matter'o'fact. I'm far from a 'Crowley RD> worshipper,' which you'd know if you'd bothered to get RD> to know me at all. Most of the locals--and other I was not aware of your affiliation, and I believe that the above questions will allow me to do so. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 28 Nov 94 01:15:58 Subject: Kundalini UpdReq I am not sure if you are the right person to ask, but you seem knowledgable about many topics. When people speak about obsession and Kundalini, what is the correct way to access it. I have the feeling that you have to take the Fire Snake slowly up to each chakra and work with the energies there until you reach the Ajna Chakra. After that, one could supposedly take the energy all the way up the spine directly to the Ajna chakra without spending large amounts of time in the other areas. Is this right? Also, I have noticed the energy surfacing more readily during the Full Moon, but I do not know if this is a general or individual thing. Thanks 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Zepher Area: Thelema To: Ned 27 Nov 94 21:11:18 Subject: Re: dissemination UpdReq On 22 Nov 94 02:28am, Ned wrote to TIM MARONEY: N> The Temple's defenders (Balanone and Zepher) claim and N> insinuate (respectively) that we mere humans ain't up to the N> task of comprehending the Temple's glorious achievements, but N> I havent seen anything so dizzying yet. Hi Ned. Hey, don your apron and let's go do some cook'n! Frankly, there's little need to defend the ToS in this forum. I was merely expressing my view. I think the ToS has and continues to stand on its own merits as it has for nearly twenty years (as a modern day organization). I can only speculate as to the reason/s why you're not capable of seeing its worth at this point in time. N> I am prepared to eat my own bilious spewings, and spew-wading N> is a requisite skill in this industry. Every once in a while N> one trips over an edible nugget or palatable tidbit. It would seem that the tasty little tidbits gifted to you (from Michael Aquino and other ToS Initiates) leave a bad taste in your mouth (MA - Where did I hear that one before? ). This would lend credence to the fact that tastes vary. Perhaps when you tripped over one of these delectable nuggets you stubbed your toe, which would account for your soreness. N> If you say the TOS has beef stew where I smell boiled socks, N> well, I'll have to take your word for it - but he offered you N> a meal, and he wont even show me the menu. There's no meal. There is however different recipes for you to prepare on your own or with other chefs. But first, you may wish to go to the kitchen and do some prep work, as most all savory LHP recipes call for. Unless you're content with Hamburger Helper. Hey, it's not that bad! Well... on second thought, maybe it is. ... This message is "evil" - but it's for your own "good". * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 37 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 28 Nov 94 07:37:10 Subject: Re: HIYA! UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. > Yes, I did. Yes, it had a sorta "White Middle Class Lady in the Midst > of the Primitive Savages--My Gosh, Aren't They Clever?" tone to it, > but it's still better than nothing. Don't forget, this is North > Carolina, and I live within quick driving distance of Jesse Helms. > It's not my "ideal" Kali book, but it's a good start. :) Try Mokerjee next. ;> Maybe it's just me--I detest books that ooze sincerity. The HPB bio I'm reading for fun has the same kinda tone, and just leaves me wishing I had something a little more *substantial*. > Yes, done the Sapphire. I used to alternate "normal" and "Thelemic" > rits. That is, one day, I'd do the LBRP, LBRH, and SIRP; the next, > it'd be Ruby, Sapphire, and Reguli.... Sheesh! No wonder you don't have time for your 'basic ritual program'. ;> I can't even remember Reguli, much less place it in line after SR/SS....I have troulbe seeing any Hex ritual as a 'banishing' per se NEwayz, so I'd do Ruby/Sapphire and leave Reguli out, even if I did have time. > Yeah. I still 'honor' the LBRP, and consider it quite valuable, > don't get me wrong. Personal preference, though, is quite undoubtedly > the Ruby. :) For a straight banishing, can't be beat, sez I. ;> >RD> after...specifically, going thru the Adorations part while doing the >RD> Surya asana series. Seems to be working ace. :> > > Hm. Interesting. Will ponder. Works for me--YMMV, of course! > I'm going to order U.'. D.'. via The Abyss, a mail-order house I've > had good dealings with previously. Same with the Goetia. Maybe even > the Equinox, though I might end up going with the 93 Publishing > edition. Good luck! > Atlanta, GA is the closest site. Unless they've started doing them at > Blake. :( Bummer! You really *do* need to move to more civilized parts... . :/ I don't think Blake celebrates Mass yet, you might wanna ask Paul or Christeos if there's an Expected Starting Date yet. ttyl! Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 29 Nov 94 23:18:22 Subject: OCR UpdReq CP> My experience so far (mind you, I didn't buy the top of the line) is CP> that OCR still has a LONG way to go. Even scanning photos is a PITA. I have had good success (99% or so, and the 1% usually catchable with spell checking) with the higher end software packages, Calera and Caere. In fact, OCR was better than photos, being line-art more or less. But carbons are really tough. The letters cannot fall apart at all, or touch. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 29 Nov 94 23:09:34 Subject: OTO UpdReq TMT> a Xth degree doesn't necessarily have to be a 9th does s/he? The OHO TMT> can be chosen from a Minerval if the conditions are TMT> right. That's correct. H.B. was a P.I. when elected. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 29 Nov 94 23:10:46 Subject: OTO UpdReq TMT> I would like to meet a serious member, but I don't TMT> exactly know where to look and where to avoid. Try visiting different areas. In terms of avoidance, though, its not the where, but the who, and nobody is likely to be able to tell you that ahead of time. TMT> By the way, Even though the OTO is a TMT> fraternal/sororal organization, is it possible to TMT> join and remain solitary and without connections to a lodge or camp? Yes. I do so now, although serving as archivist for Agape Lodge. TMT> Also, Grant makes reference to the XIth degree as TMT> being non homosexual and seemed to hint at certain TMT> kalas that appear while a female is menstruating. I Yes, that is his interpretation of the XIth. TMT> mention this because there were certain arguements TMT> posted about whether a female could attain this TMT> degree. If Grant was right then this could be the TMT> reason. Anyone know about this at all? There are women who have been recognised as XIth within the Caliphate OTO. I don't know about the Typhonian OTO, but I would assume as much. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718