From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 22 Nov 94 17:39:00 Subject: Stargate (2 of 4) UpdReq MH> I thought the ventilation shaft in question was oriented to view the MH> star Sirius. MA> I gather that it lines up to Orion if you dial the sky back to 2600 BCE. Hey waitaminnit! There's no star named "Orion", just a constellation. And the constellation covers about 20 degrees of sky, horizontally and vertically. That's a mighty big target to aim at with a shaft giving a sky-view maybe a degree wide; the shaft could be said to "point" at Orion (at a certain time and day of the year) at any time over a period of 1500 years. And over most of that period it would be pointing at empty space between stars. Sounds to me like those authors are blowing wind. (doing some quick calculations...) Another problem is that the constellation straddles the celestial equator. Rigel, the southernmost bright star of Orion, is about 8 degrees below the equator. Since Gizeh is at 30 degrees north latitude, the shaft would have to angle upwards at 52 degrees for Rigel to be seen through it. To see Sirius through it, the shaft would have to have an angle of about 44 degrees. Anybody know what the true angle of the shaft is? ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 23 Nov 94 15:48:54 Subject: God AC? Goddess Forbid! UpdReq MH> All over Crowley's writings there are challenges to the intellect, and MH> exhortions to maintain scientific agnosticism even in the midst of MH> intense Bhakti work like Liber Astarte. Isn't it odd that his most avid readers are also the most avid disobeyers of his one unavoidable philosphy: Doubt until the very end of infinity? Perhaps that is why Grant receives such a bad review. He constantly challenges Crowley's writing and, I think appropriately, attributes many of his misinterpretations coming from an old aeon birth. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 23 Nov 94 15:51:48 Subject: Great God AC? Rec'd UpdReq TI> There have been extreme cases, like the Yugoslavian who TI> shot his dog because "there is death for the dogs." but TI> they get thrown out immediately. What info from OTO TI> made you think they are trying to do as you say? The people in the organization that I have met appear to be the least likely candidates for the thoughtful insights and doubts of Crowley's material. Also, Eq III #10 seems to establish an elitist organization that revolves around and praises Crowley to a greater extent than I believe is healthy for a questioning mind. Baphomet did this...did that...did the other...you must also because his laws are the laws of the aeon. Well, that doesn't settle with me. Especially the rules pertaining to the necessary tasks that are not magickal that must be met to advance grades 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 23 Nov 94 15:56:32 Subject: OTO UpdReq PH> actual "rules" or, is it is, if it is interpreted PH> literally (are not they, after all, the Ox, and none by PH> the Book?). The degree in question was pretty up there - PH> 7th or 8th, I think? 7th and the degrees that are that high are the only degrees that can not be accessed directly by published material. It is the secret of the 9th degree that I would be interested in above all, and unless I am mistaken, there are none that hold that degree at this time. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Walter Five Area: Thelema To: All 24 Nov 94 13:22:28 Subject: LIBER AL UpdReq From: walter5@brewich.com (Walter Five) Newsgroups: pod.thelema Subject: LIBER AL Fir@f311.n202.z1.fidonet.org (Fir) writes: > > Someone told me that one should not consider O.T.O. initiations > unless that person is willing to embrace everything that is in > the Book of the Law, to accept it as truth, or something like that. > > What do you think about this? Is this thought commonly held, > do you know? > In some quarters...actually. There are Initiators I have met who No, you got it a little off...you should be prepared to *defend* the *principals* of the Book of the Law, (freedom, individual liberty, self-responsibility and so forth), not the *Book* itself. Not at the beginning, anyway...really, this point is an Academic one for a Minerval Initiation. You should be informed by your Initiator in advance about the general nature of the vows you will be expected to take, and as such, you will have an idea of what will be expected of you. My advice, speak one-on-one, in person, with a Chartered Initiator. They will be able to answer your questions. You would do best to speak with *the* initiator who's inducting you into the degree in question, so you 'll know what *that* initiator expects of you, as these things *can* be different from initiator to initiator. (the expectations of the Initiator, not the Initiation itself. Blessed Beast! Walter Five ------------------ walter5@brewich.com (Walter Five) Origin: The Brewers' Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350 3 lines 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 23 Nov 94 10:22:00 Subject: RE: THELEMIC MEANINGS UpdReq 93! I spoke with Soror Timshel on Sunday and she wasn't the least bit upset -- although she will appreciate the upcoming "Errata" notice in the next _Annuit Coeptis_. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 23 Nov 94 10:28:00 Subject: OTO UpdReq 93! TMT> Does anyone here know if the rule still stands in the OTO that you TMT> cannot advance to a certain grade until you have 111 members in your TMT> lodge? Just curious. Are you sure it isn't "until you've brought 111 people into the order"? And do you have to bring them in yourself, or do those brought into the order by those whom you have brought into the order count? 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Zepher Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 22 Nov 94 15:16:20 Subject: Re: book of coming forth 1/ UpdReq [ ...Continued From Previous Message ] Hi again, JN> 1. It's beneficial to those who do it. Giving away the JN> knowledge, power, and understanding you get from initiation, JN> unconditionally and without expectation of any return, always JN> results in the giver getting _more_ knowledge, power, and JN> understanding to replace it. Like you, I see benefit in the sharing (but only to those who prove themselves worthy) of thoughts and findings in Initiation, which seems to be a necessary element (more for some than others), though apparently we see this on different grounds. Your reasoning for sharing is what most would consider as noble, however practitioners of the LHP realize that your "giving away the knowledge, power, and understanding from initiation unconditionally and without expectation of any return" is evidence of self-delusion. Such delusion is common place in RHP ideas and practices, which lead to other corruptions within their teachings. In my opinion, this one fact more or less invalidates much of what ensues, but does not at all mean that nothing of value can be found. JN> 2. It's beneficial to those who receive it. Unconditionally JN> given power and knowledge finds its own channels, and can be JN> adapted to the circumstances of the receiver much more readily JN> than when the giver insists on trying to keep some sort of JN> "control" over it, or tries to distribute it selectively. JN> 3. It's beneficial to the world at large. The more knowledge JN> available in any given field, the more rapidly it gets JN> integrated into the psychic environment, producing a general JN> adaptation of humanity's consciousness in that area. Yes, but we are speaking of magic. We are speaking of supernatural, superational, super-un-natural, or whatever else you wish to call it. It's simple, yet if you consciously apply it it's a highly complicated and integral study and practice. I would not share my "secret" (as I defined previously) knowledge and understanding in regards to magic and its theories and practices to my children let alone a stranger simply because they voice a wanting or interest. Much of it is for them to find out and struggle with for themselves. Although my children are teenagers (young adults) they, in my opinion, display more competence than many adults do. Even so, they are not yet in my opinion educated and competent enough to wield a "loaded gun". Why then would I share such a thing with those I know little of? JN> This in turn enables individuals working ahead of the general JN> run of humanity to go farther than they would otherwise be JN> able. Is this to say that there exists an elite group of humans? Z>> How can you gain mastery over the Universe when you previously Z>> relinquished your intellect and merged your consciousness with Z>> it? You in effect detract into an undistinguishable ingredient Z>> intermixed in a quagmire of non-consciousness. The very pith Z>> of what made you distinct from everything else is dissolved. JN> There's too many misconceptions in that statement for me to JN> handle them in detail. A couple of points: Gee, and here I was thinking you had too many misconceptions in your statements! JN> 1. You never have had, and never will have, complete mastery JN> over the universe. And no being, no matter what its level, JN> ever will. If you think otherwise, you are seriously deluded. I don't recall saying _complete_ mastery over the universe, but I can understand how that can be assumed - although, I would not be so presumptuous in concluding that it's impossible. Command over ones lot of "followers" and a perfect understanding of the Universe is what I am referring to. This, my conception of what the grade of Magister Templi (8)=[3] means to *you* may very well be in error. JN> 2. Your conception of what it means to be "enlightened" in the JN> traditional sense has little or nothing to do with the facts JN> of the case. You gotta start somewhere. It seems to me that your own basic conceptions are somewhat ill equipped for a discussion that involves LHP thought. I was under the impression that you wanted an *attempt* to provide clear, unambiguous (as if it were possible) descriptions of initiations? Okay, apparently I'm lost here. What exactly is the case? You are interested (or at least you claim to be) in _learning_ (or is it more in denouncing) descriptions of ToS initiations by Temple Initiates right? Here, I presented you with some insight, opinions, and perceptions from a black magician who is Recognized as an Adept within the ToS. Whoops, there I go waving my grade! JN> Note the words "loss of identification" in my paragraph above. JN> When an awareness "identifies" itself with something, it JN> believes itself to _be_ that thing, and acts as if it were JN> that thing. When it ceases to identify, it no longer believes JN> itself to be that thing, and is freed from the necessity of JN> acting within the limits that thing places on it. If I understand the essence of Self (as you term - the "identified" awareness) to be a virtual wellspring of endless possibilities towards evolution on an infinite scale, why then would I wish for any loss of identification with that particular identified awareness? It endures no limits. It would behove me to become _more_ aware of this "identity", not less. Of course, this is coming from a little itty bitty Adept within the ToS. I'm probably way out in Left field. JN> When I say that the enlightened awareness no longer identifies JN> with the individualized self, I am simply saying that it is no JN> longer constrained by that self's limited forms of awareness JN> and activity. This does _not_ mean that the structures of JN> individuality and intellect disappear, or that the awareness JN> ceases to exist. Simply that the awareness recognizes that JN> individualized selfhood is not the highest state of being it JN> is capable of assuming, and can assume other states more or JN> less at will. There are other factors involved. Some are those which you seem to refuse to explore or are not yet capable of doing so due to your perception, lack of, or limits you place on your own Initiation. JN> (Conditions in that higher-than-individualized state of being JN> sound paradoxical and strange when rendered into the JN> terminology of the Ruach. You do understand Josh that this could very well be construed as being evasive - ringing of smoke and mirrors. I will say however, that in this case, and at this time I do consider it to actually be paradoxical, largely due to perceptions that is characteristic of the RHP. JN> A lot of the misconceptions -- such as this ego-destruction JN> thing -- are a consequence of the drastically different JN> conditions on those higher levels. Hmmm, ego-destruction? Maybe it's more of an ego-reconfiguration. JN> It's really quite simple and self-consistent when you actually JN> get there.) I would think so, seeing that you and apparently others are under the assumption that you're there. [ Continued In Next Message... ] * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 32 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Zepher Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 23 Nov 94 13:24:40 Subject: Re: book of coming forth UpdReq On 17 Nov 94 02:33pm, Josh Norton wrote to Zepher: Hi Josh, how are you? Thanks for your reply. JN> Yep. But I've also supplied substantial means for people to JN> judge for themselves whether it's justified, both here on the JN> net and in formal papers and magickal records. I feel (and apparently others do as well) that Michael Aquino has and continues to supply sound and ample means for people to judge for themselves. In my affiliation with Michael Aquino and the ToS in general I have little or no problems in the acquisition of whatever information I request. My own perception and observation of this "current that prompts you into these forays against the ToS" may be of some assistance to you. If you feel that Ipsissimus Aquino supplies too little for you to understand or for you to make a reasonable determination for yourself then let me suggest that you, if you really wish to learn his perceptions, get off your podium long enough to ingest what he already gave you. Now, I don't mean this to be derogatory, disparaging, or to create any animosity, it's merely a suggestion which may aid in your comprehension of what Setians explore and practice. In your own words you seem to understand the difficulty involved in explaining the essence of any particular state of initiation. I would, for your benefit, associate that same difficulty with your understanding, or lack of, in regards to the LHP. JN> And since I'm not recruiting followers or even offering a JN> "system of initiation", it matters much less than it does in JN> Michael's case. I've given away everything that I think is JN> generally useful, and people can take it, leave it, or change JN> it to suit their own conditions. I believe that likewise Michael Aquino has gifted everything he feels useful to those who are not of the LHP and/or willing to make a commitment. Z>> If you consider your own musings or remarks in regards to your Z>> own experiences as lies what then would you consider that of Z>> others? JN> The primary word is "incomplete", not "lie". It doesn't take JN> a Master of the Temple to understand this -- see Korzybski's JN> book "Science and Sanity". Or S.I. Hayakawa's "Language in JN> Action". It's impossible to approach a complete description JN> of any given level. But dissemination of descriptions of how JN> it looks to different people would provide a substantial base JN> on which to eventually formulate better descriptions. JN> And the more different viewpoints are expressed, the more JN> likely that someone coming along later will find something JN> that clicks with his own needs. Apparently. Okay, "incomplete", but still not a lie - just unfinished, still acquiring the pieces of a puzzle and putting them in the proper place. At least, what you and perhaps those who think as you believe to be the proper place. JN> The parallel case would be one of the Eastern systems, (e.g., JN> Mahayana Buddhists) wherein various "grades" are described in JN> detail. Historical evidence from those systems shows your JN> objection does not happen in practice. Fakers can't keep up a JN> deception well enough among intelligent people. Remember JN> Maharaj-Ji, the sixteen-year-old "perfect master"? I agree. Traditionally titles are often nothing but makeup on a corpse. They're applied liberally to give an illusion of a desired reality. Usually I find the use of such titles contrary to the facts. But, like I said, it was just a thought. [ Continued In Next Message... ] * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 33 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Zepher Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 23 Nov 94 12:45:58 Subject: Re: book of coming forth 2/ UpdReq [ ...Continued From Previous Message ] Hello, for the third time! JN> The "temple" of which the MoT is "master" is the Ruach, that JN> part of being that makes up the individualized self. He is JN> master of it because his awareness is no longer controlled by JN> it. Please define what you consider as "temple", "Mot", and "Ruach" or, if you will, point me to some references so that I can have a clearer understanding of what you are speaking. Thank's. JN> He is not a "Master of the Universe" -- that's a comic book JN> character. Com'on Josh, give me a break! I think you've taken this slightly out of context. Although, a lot of RHP material does indeed seem somewhat comical to me. JN> Just in case it's gotten lost in all this brouhaha, I would JN> like to point out again that the "traditional" magickal JN> systems don't expect people to jump right from an unenlighted JN> state into a state of identification with the divine. There JN> are typically three major stages: The "non-traditional" systems don't as well, and some/many Initiates may never (or at least, no one outside themselves will consider them to be "divine"), but there are, as I understand them to be, certain aspects that must be realized before the LHP is even understood as the viable and dynamic life enhancing study that I find it to be. Even your statement, "state of identification with the divine" holds many connotations that are, from all indications, most likely contrary to what I understand them to be. We would no doubt be able to argue them at length and most likely, at least I would, reject your philosophy, not out of scorn, but because I have already carefully evaluated it and constantly find it to be wanting, as is the case now. However, my intent is to try to gather bits and pieces of information that I can use in my own philosophy from many others. The ToS, in my opinion, does not have it's own philosophy, rather it incorporates many. This, among other reasons, is why I find it so compatible. JN> -- First you have to become an individual, divorcing yourself JN> from the conditioning placed on you by childhood training and JN> social pressure, and freeing yourself from identification with JN> your means of relationship to the world, i.e., the senses, JN> emotions, intellect, and self-image. That is to assume your childhood training/pressure is not desirable. Freeing yourself from your senses? Hmmm, Suicde would seem to take care of that. I would add and emphasize the confrontation of those "monsters" that may haunt you. JN> -- Next you have to understand the nature of your specific JN> individuality in detail, and apply that nature to the world in JN> the most effective and spiritually "positive" way possible. You were doing well till you came to this "positive" thing. JN> You nourish it, strengthen it, and cultivate it, precisely as JN> you say you want to do. Yes, and this is precisely what I am doing - sometimes successfully and sometimes failing miserably. It seems you have a wanting to do this as well. Of course, not to fail at it, but to succeed which is commendable. JN> -- Knowing your individuality eventually leads, as a _natural_ JN> consequence, to a point where it becomes constraining to the JN> awareness. It is only when the awareness realizes the JN> limitations individualization places on it that it begins to JN> cease identifying with it, and to work at freeing itself from JN> the self. When it accomplishes this, it becomes a "Master of JN> the Temple", the lowest of the three "enlightened" grades. Natural? Hmmm, what a strange concept? In my previous message I touch upon this "identified awareness" which may or may not be agreed upon by other Setians. JN> As far as I can tell from their limited public utterances, the JN> ToS differs from other initiatory groups in that they deny JN> that this last stage exists. They turn their backs on the JN> natural progression, and decide that the secondary stage is JN> the highest stage. Their system is not truly a "left-hand JN> path" presenting a system different from equal to the JN> tradition "right-hand" (their term, not mine) systems. Instead JN> it is simply the traditional system, truncated before it gets JN> to the goal. What do you see as the goal? I think Michael Aquino, Balanone, and even I provided you with ample amount of thought and opportunity to help you understand. It's your desire to "turn your back" and not accept it, which is fine, but I wish you would stop whining about how Setians won't share their "details". The "details" are there, some I see, others I need only explore to find, but like you said, "enlightenment" won't happen over night (or will it?). As is the case with many terms, the term "Left Hand Path" is used and redefined to suit the wants and needs of a group or individual. Here, it's done to disavow a particular definition used to distinguish certain characterizations. What exactly were you told or do you consider as RHP and LHP? Again, thanks for your thoughts. H. J. Mowry, Jr. * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 33 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 24 Nov 94 12:53:00 Subject: God AC? Goddess Forbid! UpdReq TMT> Perhaps that is why Grant receives such a bad review. He constantly TMT> challenges Crowley's writing and, I think appropriately, TMT> attributes many of his misinterpretations coming from an TMT> old aeon birth. As opposed to Grant's new aeon misinterpretations? ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 24 Nov 94 14:05:04 Subject: The Abyss UpdReq Thus said Rose Dawn to Josh Norton concerning The Abyss: RD> Greets Josh! RD> Howdy! RD> RD> Understood, and I thought the 'four stages' post was incredible. I think I RD> was sensing something more, or maybe just something RD> different though--I guess there's no such thing as a 'mini RD> apotheosis.' ;> I think it was the idea of a 'choice' or RD> a fork in the road, at every step along the way, rather RD> than breaking up/integrating, then coming up on a big RD> chasm, which is kinda my idea of the 'official abyss RD> experience.' Still sounds pretty much like your 'stage 2,' RD> maybe just that I 'feel' it as a bit more active, or RD> requiring action from each individual. RD> Not quite sure what you're getting at with this matter of choices. > And then there is the "abyss below", the sea of preconscious processes > out of which our awareness arose in the first place. The seeming > solidity of our individual selves is really only a thin layer of ice > covering this sea. When the ice cracks we see for a while into those > terrifying depths; or if the pressure is too great, the ice breaks up > entirely and dissolves back into the water... Fortunately for us, the > ice usually re-forms itself without any intervention. RD> RD> I've had a vague sense of the second type of abyss; I think the last one's RD> the one that's been doggin me lately. This might be what RD> I'm grasping for with the mini-abysses...I'm not so sure RD> that the ice reforms without active intervention on the RD> part of the individual...at least not to the extent that RD> it can be counted on to do so. RD> Hmmm. It doesn't happen _every_ time, or there wouldn't be any schizophrenics out there. But in the absence of a biological pre- disposition towards schizophrenia, I'd say that the tendency towards reintegration is a fairly robust process. And it gets more robust the farther you go in initiation. It's very strength is part of what makes the "official" Abyss so difficult to cross -- you have to re-train the mind to integrate in a form different from that it is accustomed to using -- without knowing the new form to train it to! RD> RD> I agree that 'resistance is futile' ;> as far as the RD> disruption itself goes. It's the integration part...or RD> maybe the part between 'death' and the 'solar RD> stage'...that needs work; the choice could be between RD> 'soaring' or *plunging*, and I think it's just as RD> important--maybe even more so--to reach for this at the RD> beginning of one's initiation, as at its apex where the RD> 'gap' between human and divine is closed, or crossed, or RD> recognized as non-existent. I've noted that the disruption of the "death" stage is sometimes followed by a short period in which one feels "lower" or more mundane than usual. Sort of like the period of dullness following an acid trip. Might this connect to what you are getting at? Agreed, it's essential to get in the habit of "pushing on" right from the beginning. ... We are Raccoon of Borg. Putting bricks on the trashcans is futile. ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Walter Five 25 Nov 94 08:41:26 Subject: More AC Bull. UpdReq WF> flippant. The 11th Degree WF> (which is inscrutable, and dwells in its own Houses, currently outside WF> the perview of the Order) is like many other High Mysteries--easily WF> misunderstood and misrepresented by the profane. Now, (Wouldn't that be purview) But in fact, if the XIth is OTO, it is under it's own purview, and was since Grady chartered Shiraz. By the way, Grady was no more initiated into the IXth than HB, so if Grady was able to activate it, I guess HB could too, though I doubt he is likely to in the near future. WF> BTW, the 11th Degree "technically" isn't a WF> homosexual one. I know WF> of at least one female candidate papered by H.A. to the 11th Degree. The But the original Rites were separate and homosexual. The rite of Mitylene only admitted women, and Shiraz only males. There was one male initiated into Mitylene in 1986, though. WF> 11th Degree *is* inactive, though. There are no currently chartered 11th WF> Degree Initiators within the Order, and H.B. has not been initiated into I think this is not technically true. Initiators were never chartered separately from members, at least in Mitylene, and there are people who still maintain membership. They are chartered to "recognise" other XIths. WF> this degree, so I'm not sure that he *could* charter its reactivation if WF> he wanted to--how can one charter or award a degree WF> that one has not been WF> recieved? As I noted above, if Grady could do it, HB should be able to, though one may intimate that Grady could or should not have either. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Aquino Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 23 Nov 94 09:41:02 Subject: Re: Crowley on CDROM? Rec'd UpdReq TI> That's appropriate punishment! I assume you are familiar with the TI> Book of the Inlaws? Have you ever used Travesty on the Book of the Law? TI> It sounds almost the same, very unlike what happens to Shakespeare or TI> King James. No, I haven't seen any _AL_ parodies, but I'm sure they're inevitable ... and probably fun if done in good humor & wit. I have a weakness for lively lampoons, and still keep a copy of _Bored of the Rings_ on the shelf next to _LOTR_. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Aquino Area: Thelema To: Randolph Clayton 23 Nov 94 09:45:36 Subject: Re: SEKHMET UpdReq RC> Yikes.. your saying philosophical type things... I am gonna get a RC> headache. :) As I used to say in my Political Theory classes: "Where the hell did we come from? What the hell are we doing? Where the hell are we going? How the hell should I know?" 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Aquino Area: Thelema To: Walter Five 23 Nov 94 09:54:26 Subject: Re: More AC Bull. UpdReq WF> I'll quickly agree. Anal sex is but *part* of the mystery of the 11th WF> Degree, which I have heard the good Doctor describe as "You Pork someone, WF> make a Wish, and it comes true." This quote is also rather trite and WF> flippant, if true, and shows what I feel to be a misunderstanding of the WF> principals of Sex Magick. Actually I was talking about the IX* O.T.O. when I made that remark, although I guess it could be applied to the XI* too. And I think it is fundamentally justified, if you'll pardon the pun, per _Rex de Arte Regia_ and innumerable other Crowley writings on the subject. But I am not going to get involved in a discussion of "sex magick" here. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Aquino Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 23 Nov 94 10:03:00 Subject: Re: More AC Bull. UpdReq MH> If Mike _did_ say that, I would have found it very funny. It's MH> interesting...Mike seems to have found a sense of humor recently. Which MH> is to me a very healthy improvement. "It only hurts when I laugh ..." FYI Temple of Set annual conclaves usually last a week, during which time there is so much going on that no one sleeps very much. By the last couple of days, everybody is so punchy that *anything* said by *anyone* comes across as either ultra-profoundly wise or paralyzingly funny. Try 4-5 days without sleep sometime and see what I mean. I'm sure that much of the Temple's distinguished reputation, such as it is, is based on Setians coming home from conclaves overwhelmingly impressed with what they heard during the last day ... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 25 Nov 94 09:21:04 Subject: Re: Crowley on CDROM? MA> No, I haven't seen any _AL_ parodies, but I'm sure MA> they're inevitable ... and I think you'd find it entertaining. Have you seen the '40-s parodies, The Mongolian Master and his Disciple, or The C onference of the Golden Spawn? (Price one shilling and sixpence, including astral duplicate.) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718