From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 23 Nov 94 08:32:30 Subject: Re: HIYA! UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. I really am glad to see ya back, even if it'll have to be minus your former manic enthusiasm for everything under the Sun. ;> I lucked out--after some intense Jupiter stuff--and came into a bit of money; not a fortune, but enough for me and Tam to live on for several months without needing to sweat the rent and bills, or me having to do a single lick of mundane work if I didn't wanna! :> Gave me time to devote exclusively to magical practices, yoga, and doing the Mom Thang. Wonderful. :> > Haven't read Moonchild yet... ? It's a novel, but I highly recommend it. Descriptions of rituals galore, and some of AC's more sublime Waite-bashing...LOL! The original title was apparently _The Butterfly Net_ . I picked that'un up at the used bookstore too! If you ever do make it out here, I'll be sure to drag you down there, although I totally lucked out, in that some deceased occultist's personal library was up for sale at the time I wandered in--been substantially depleted by now. LOL--a good chunk of it by *me*! :> Got some harder-to-find Crowley, a parcel of Kenneth Grant, and several of the 'occult classics' that I'd missed till then. > I'm afraid you're not initiated to that degree yet. :) > > (I couldn't even *type* that with a straight face!) Hey--it is beyond my degree. I haven't been awarded the Dreaded Tech Weenie Beanie yet! Nope, like Kayla, I'm also a Mac person. I can *read* High ASCI, but not produce it. ;> > By the way, the notion to use alt-249 occurred to me just after > finishing Harding's _Kali: Black Goddess of Dakshineswar_. After > immersing myself in Kali for a few days, it just sorta popped into my > head. Coincidence? :) :) Did you like that book? It drove me crazy while I was reading it...I sent my copy to Christeos Pir, and he in turn passed it on to someone else. ;> The cover photo was quite nice, and several of the inside photos as well--I wish they'd been in color, but oh well. A few amusing stories, and some good travel directions. ;> I just couldn't get behind the Oh-Gee-Whiz! style of the narrative maybe...and kept wanting details!!man!!details!! > Basically just Resh and the beginner's layout of Asana's from Swami > Vishnu-Devananda's Complete Book of Yoga. I've been pretty slack > about pent and hex rits, though I've managed a few LBRPs, and several > Rubies.... Uhm, the Ruby *is* a pent ritual! Tried the Star Sapphire yet, in any way, shape or form? Sheesh...been a longtime since I've done a Hex ritual myself. Maybe I can take time out from my busy schedule ::snicker:: and get back into LBRP/LRH for a while. Now that I've got the 'Ruby basics' down, though, I've been really interested in getting deeper into it..I'm sure you know what I mean, I remember your wanting to ditch LBRPs altogether in favor of SRs way back when. How's Swami V treating you? Oh! Forgot to tell you, I'm on my way to certification as a hatha yoga instructor...LOL. I got my start with Vishnu-devananda, and that's still the style I tend to prefer above all others, but *not* the style I'm presently training in...life's strange sometimes, eh? ;> Don't neglect yer pranayama ::nag nag nag:: -- seriously, if I do nothing *but* pranayama on any given day, I consider it a day well spent. Great stuff. :> Also lately been incorporating Suryanamaskar into Resh, rather than immediately after...specifically, going thru the Adorations part while doing the Surya asana series. Seems to be working ace. :> > um, > "lost" accidentally-on-purpose after an argument. :( Oh my! ==:o LOL...Ok. ;> > Hmm. Next books I'm looking to get are Frater U.. D..'s _Secrets of > the German Sex Magicians_, Crowley's _Illustrated Goetia_, and one of > the various editions of _The Equinox, Vol. I_. And now I'm interested > in obtaining Enochian materials for perusal, too. If there *are* > used bookstores in NC that carry that kinda material, *I* have yet to > find them. :) You should be able to order Frater U'D' direct from Llewellyn , no? Or did you mean in *german*? Don't read the Goetia before bedtime! };> The prices for Equinoxes made me realize that, at this point, online text editions are good enuff for me. ;> Further catching-up: Tami and I both recently attended our first EGC Mass, and it was BITCHIN!! Is there anywhere remotely close to Cary where they celebrate the Gnostic Mass? I highly recommend it. :> I plan to be baptised ASAP. Her plans are listed in the HRILIU echo . ;> We've hosted initiations for several more new Brothers here since your hiatus...wish you coulda been one of them! Helrunar was the last Candidate, & it was real special for me. We're partnered up magically as well as mundanely. We work well together. ;> I've got a lotta new books, looking for a new place to move to, and I'm nowhere near as smart as I used to be...LOL! ;> ttyl! Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Fir 24 Nov 94 08:24:10 Subject: CLARIFICATION UpdReq F> Not sure where I'd come by early issues of the OTO Newsletter? I have the first two volumes online here, though I don't know which one it was in. Probably about 1981, which was when I got my camp too. I was on the cover (with the rest of the Brocken Mt. Lodge) of the issue immediately preceding it, I think, and the founder of the Rite of Mytilene was on the cover of the one in question. (You mean your local library has no copies on file???) F> I'm not fishing for anything here but did you ever get the F> additional copies of Mezla issues I sent you a little while back? Sorry, yes, I got them moons ago, thanks! I meant to write and thank you, but must have confused the earlier letter with the second batch. I did send email speculating on the unnumbered issue, and wondered why you didn't respond. Must have gone into the black email hole that I recently found and destroyed. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tim Maroney Area: Thelema To: Frater H.A.C.A. 23 Nov 94 13:48:52 Subject: Re: Thelemic Insanity UpdReq You _like_ David Cherubim's writing style? That's pretty amazing. It reeks of pomposity, aside from having all the grace of a two-ton water buffalo lurching through the Holy of Holies. It's stilted, nearly unreadable, and pathetic overall. His thinking, in addition, is doctrinaire Crowleyan Thelema, with never the slightest doubt towards the dogmas of that crapulous creed. I mean it in a =good= way, though. Tim Maroney 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 23 Nov 94 07:10:32 Subject: CD-ROMs UpdReq CP> Hmm... First of all, one would have to want those particular versions, CP> and the accent might be a distraction. Second, unless you've worked CP> some _real_ magick and cleaned them up since my cassette dubs of the CP> old LP was made, they sound like hammered shit. Third, as you mention, CP> he only recorded the first two. One: You're right. More apppropriate for the Crowley display at the wax museum. Two: No, they are still pretty bad, though you can do a lot with an equalizer. Three: Big problem. CP> Anyway, wouldn't ANY line input be equal? IOW, wouldn't it still go CP> through the same DAC-ADC path as, say, a microphone? Or would it CP> actually go digital all the way? (Way beyond my level of education CP> here.) No, here I am pretty sure that some sound recording equipment can be digital all the way. Not my system, but..... (I don't even have a mike......) CP> Well, like I said, I haven't been able to get on the board for more CP> than about 1/2 sec. (I'll probably have $5 in calls, none of which have CP> gone through.) Yes, a few people are having a real lot of trouble getting through, while others are having no trouble at all. I can hear the radio station WOR on the line when I pl;ug a phone in, so it may be time to completely rewire. You might try the second line, which seems to be cleaner: 201/434-5026. CP> If you were to happen to file attatch that and Tau Apiryon's posts, CP> it'd be most gratefully received. Will get on it this afternoon. CP> Well, if you need a hand with anything else, let me know. Should take you up on that, but while I am in a buying mood, I am going to get a scanner, and only ask humans to do t he really bad carbons. TI> Whoops, hold that PO, Jeeves....... I think I'll delay on that TI> $1,995 Pinnacle drive for a month or two..... CP> CP> Keep in mind that this is no more than industry CP> rumour at this point. Dvorak Yeah, but I'm between jobs this week, so easy on the pocketbook it is. CP> is sometimes right on the money, sometimes full of it. A difference of CP> that much in price might make it worth waiting just in case he's right, CP> though. Remember the first Betamax? $1600, and that was _without_ the CP> tuner! Well, that's before my time. ;-) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Balanone Area: Thelema To: Ned 23 Nov 94 22:34:10 Subject: dissemination UpdReq On Nov 22, 1994, Ned wrote to TIM MARONEY re: dissemination TM>Micahel Aquino was kind enough to send me a rather long TM>document from the Crystal Tablet, and I am pleased to report TM>that his interest in philosophy is not the "smoke and mirrors" TM>which you have represented it to be. In fact, I have not seen TM>any other occult or pagan attempt to systematize philosophy that TM>is as well-informed, seriously intended, or near success as this one. N> Sounds great. However, while I dont mean to impugn your N> integrity, hearsay is dubious by definition. I'd love to N> read it. TM>If the Temple were to make such documents more widely available, TM>I think it could only help their reputation. N> I think that you are probably correct. On the other hand, N> a self-congratulatory smugness is all the more suspect N> without an accompanying willingness to substantiate its N> basis in fact. The Temple's defenders (Balanone and N> Zepher) claim and insinuate (respectively) that we mere N> humans ain't up to the task of comprehending the Temple's N> glorious achievements, but I havent seen anything so N> dizzying yet. ... Hmmm, I don't think that's been my claim. Rather (or perhaps to clarify what I think I've been trying to say), most people wouldn't take the time to examine even a minimal gestalt of the Temple's works, but instead would try to wring everything they can out of an individual document. Since almost none of the Temple's documents are stand-alone (they are interdependent communications), that short-cut simply wouldn't work, and it would necessarily leave the people involved disappointed. Let me go even further ... not only are most of the Temple's documents interdependent, but they are also documents in flux, not final statements of any kind, but rather snapshots of perceptions and understandings at points in time which are in the process of being superseded. Yes, I know this generally applies to all advancing occult activity, but in the Temple we tend to obsolete our documents with gusto. Again, anyone reviewing individual documents or even a small subset of them would be disappointed by the documents and would be shorted by them. More than disappointed, the obvious inadequacy of these items to explain whatever Setians are talking about today (because they deal only with parts of our activity, or because they have been obsoleted almost by the time they're published) would bring about two major results: 1) many would plague the Temple for document after document, and we simply don't have the manpower or financial ability to produce our documents at that level, and 2) many others would denigrate the Temple even worse than happens here. Those are the reasons I favor the Temple's policy of keeping our documents in-house. Balanone PP FidoNet: Balanone at 1:203/444.15 Internet: Balanone@tefnut.astaroth.sacbbx.com ... Speak softly and carry a +6 two handed sword. ___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered] 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Bruce Kroeze Area: Thelema To: Tim Maroney 22 Nov 94 22:38:00 Subject: 10 = 1 discussion UpdReq TM> Unfortunately, I don't think most people make that jump, especially when they > get involved with a group situation where there are powerful social pressures > holding the mind in that shape. > [...] > I find it sad, but I don't know what I can > do about it except write messages like this one, which I know will be ignored > or demonized by those who need to hear them most. You are probably correct in both points. The first that groups tend to influence people into certain mindsets, sometimes holding them back. The second, that the people (perhaps including me) who need to start applying skepticism to Thelema will really listen to your posts. I think perhaps this is a realization that _must_ be made individually. TM> To achieve an arms-length view of Thelema, you > have to go to Chaos Magic, TOPY, or a similar post-Thelemic group; there > is no group which is largely concerned with Crowley's corpus which treats > that corpus with the proper skepticism. I have not been very impressed with the intellectual abilities of the Chaos crowd, or the TOPY folks. Most of what I've read seems...lacking inspiration. Probably this is because I do not enjoy using others personal & abitrarily idiosyncratic magickal systems. Impossible though it may be to prove, I believe the group I work closely with applies fierce and appropriate skepticism to Uncle Al, while continuing to use much of his material. Fool/M II' -- SPEED 1.4g #1295: ... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Bruce Kroeze Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 22 Nov 94 22:48:02 Subject: peter carroll UpdReq JN> It would make just as much (and as little) > sense to use the "Princess" scale of color and call "Blue" magick "Deep > azure, flecked yellow" magick instead. LOL. The little flecks of yellow would be the gold coins... -- SPEED 1.4g #1295: ... Remember, god works in meaningless ways. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Bruce Kroeze Area: Thelema To: Tim Maroney 23 Nov 94 20:15:04 Subject: Thelemic Insanity UpdReq I agree with the main point of the earlier posts in this thread. It is silly for OTO, TOT, whatever groups to put down other groups that are legitimately trying to advance the 93 current. In that respect, I fully support the T.O.G.D. However, I also have to agree with Mr. Maroney about David Cherubim. He just puts my objections so well. TM> David Cherubim has made an extremely bad impression on me. His writing > style is that of a bargain-basement Crowley imitator, drained of the poetry > and insight and with extra heaping scoops of pretension and pomposity. If he > could grow beyond his desire to be the next Crowley and his addiction to > styles of which he has no literary grasp, then I might take another look at > his work, but for now it seems laughable (in a queasy sort of way). I have no problem with the Thelemic G.D. as a group, but I have to agree with Tim as to its founder. I've read a couple of his flying rolls that seemed to be pure drivel. Even worse for Cherubim, I have a problem with people who are apologists for the Book of the Law. "Oh, you are just not interpreting the third chapter right. Its not really violent. Let me explain what that part about pecking out Jesus' eyes means..." The worst kind of center of pestilence. -- SPEED 1.4g #1295: A squished bug is not the Star. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Bruce Kroeze Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 23 Nov 94 20:46:06 Subject: Chaos Magick Practices UpdReq JM> And even Pope Pete devoted an entire chapter in _Psychonaut_ to initiation - > titled, strangely enough, "Initiation". His thoughts on the subject closely > parallel my own: JM> "Initiation can never be performed according to some set formula. No two > people will have the same requirements, abilites, or shortcomings... > Existence itself can be seen as a continuous initiation punctuated by > periodic death and rebirth, which itself has the greatest initiatory > potential. Beyond a certain level, the magician must seek his own > initiatory experiences deliberately, or may feel that something inside > of himself is pushing him into these experiences. There is no fixed > route which one can traverse and become an adept or master by rote. > There are too many variables in existence to make a simple equation > possible." cop out. -- SPEED 1.4g #1295: Cerebus can destroy ANYTHING. Cerebus is the POPE. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Bruce Kroeze Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 23 Nov 94 21:03:10 Subject: chaos magick practice UpdReq MH> I think that Israel Regardie exhibited a great deal of wisdom about this > in insisting that potential magickal students of his would go through at > least a year of psychotherapy as a prerequisite. > [...] > I'd rather put magick down for awhile and clean up my psychological > garbage than risk being really high...and totally nutso. I just can't make myself disentangle magick from my life for a _year_ to participate in a different sort of magickal practice (psychotherapy) the effectiveness of which seems to be miniscule. Even worse, from my perspective is that hearkens back to the bad-old-days of guruism. "I can't get better without someone to help me." Lastly, too darn expensive. I would heartily appreciate thoughts from others on this. -- SPEED 1.4g #1295: "If there is a universal mind, must it be sane?" -Fort 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718