From: Paul Hume Area: Thelema To: Brian Dare 10 Nov 94 11:05:12 Subject: LBRP and Breathing UpdReq Brian - My rhythms, when I use them... After opening Q+ (breath there is simple - exhale when speaking (g))... Advance to East. Inhale. Exhale while drawing Star. Inhale in vibratory mode (ie. filling self with Name). Exhale (duh!) while vibrating YHVH. Inhale while recovering from projection (whether withdrawing into Sign of Silence or not), exhale drawing circle from center of Star to next cardinal point. Repeat in each quarter. During invocation of Archangels... Inhale in vibratory mode, visdualizing Raph. appearing in East. Exhale while vibrating. Inhale feeling energy of Air pouring int from Archangel. Exhale, thanking Raph. and shifting awareness to rear for Gab. Repeat for each Archangel. Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Paul Hume Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 10 Nov 94 11:19:50 Subject: Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn UpdReq Dr. Aquino - 93. While there have been several replies to your query, no one has yet mentioned that there is a Thelemic GD echo available (Nuitnet or PODS, I couldn't tell ya). Also, David has posted a number of TGD rituals and flying rolls on the Mysteria BBS, which have migrated hither and thither on the nets since. David and several of his initiates are active presences on the nets and would be able to answer queries as to what TGD does, etc. I know a few folks who are or have been initiates of the TGD, and most have good things to say, even if it wasn't what they needed (or what they were looking for). Further, deponent knoweth not. Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 11 Nov 94 16:53:22 Subject: a place to start 1/ UpdReq -=> Michelle Hass sent a message to Josh Norton on 04 Nov 94 20:25:40 <=- -=> Re: a place to start 1/ <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. MH> Nice to hear from you again, Josh, or should I say, Supremely Honored Michelle Hass? MICHELLE HASS??? Whew! Now _there's_ a name from the past! Nice to see you're still around... thought we'd lost you! Written anything new? Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir Fr. Vitriol Io, O.T.O. ... Dazzling around thy skirts like a Serpent of precious stones 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 11 Nov 94 17:07:36 Subject: Re: Books UpdReq -=> Michael Aquino sent a message to Christeos Pir on 05 Nov 94 08:09:13 <=- -=> Re: Re: Books <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. MA> In 1972 Sammy Davis, Jr. made a film called _Poor Devil_ [with MA> Christopher Lee as Satan]. It was a very cheerful film - so MA> complimentary to Satanism, in fact, that the network execs nixed the MA> series based on it that Davis had originally planned. Heh! I'll have to keep an eye out (oops!) for it! MA> Anyhow - as a Magister of the Church of Satan at the time - I wrote MA> Davis an appreciative letter and invited him to accept an honorary MA> Church of Satan membership. He wrote back and accepted, so I presented MA> it to him on the stage of the Circle Star (appropriate title) Theater MA> in Belmont, CA a month or so later. This is all pretty funny, considering the jokes he used to do that played on his Jewish conversion, "...OUR people," etc. MA> There are in fact a great many errors in _SWY_, particularly where the You want a hilarious one, see my post on the Crowley bio in "The Occult." MA> As for Eddie Munster: In fact that is how my parents designed me, i.e. MA> with a very pronounced widow's peak and sharply pointed eyebrows. MA> [Occasionally I produce baby photos to verify this, but it doesn't work MA> on an echo.] Yes, I could disguise these features; no, I don't wish to. Come to think of it, that was the first photo of you that I've seen (I seem to recall catching the tail end of some talk show that you were on, but I don't remember anyone resembling those pix); now that I've seen a couple more, I see what you mean! If I thought you were the kind of person that would be offended by my remarks I'd apologize, but I think I can safely guess that you could care less -- not to mention that my comments were obviously good-natured teasing. MA> Once or twice, for certain Temple of Set rituals, I experimented with MA> Egyptian eye makeup, a la Tut. It's a very startling effect, MA> particularly on males [as we are somewhat more used to eye-accent on MA> females today]; but it really did not work with my eyebrows [Tut as a MA> vampire?], so I gave it up. Shucks. Quick! Send the photos to David Geffen, in case he's casting for Anne Rice's "Queen of the Damned"!" BTW, someone was asking about the ToS on Magicknet... Paul mentioned the ToS echo, and I gave him the POB in Frisco. Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir Fr. Vitriol Io, O.T.O. ... Attempting to be more than Man we become less 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 11 Nov 94 17:25:02 Subject: Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn UpdReq -=> Michael Aquino sent a message to All on 05 Nov 94 08:15:04 <=- -=> Re: Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. MA> I recently received a newsletter from an organization called the MA> Thelemic Temple and Order of the Golden Dawn, based in Los Angeles and MA> apparently the joint creation of Christopher Hyatt and David Cherubim. MA> I have not had any previous contact with this organization, and am MA> curious to know how it is regarded in the Thelemic community. MA> I had heard some years ago that Hyatt was trying to restart the Golden MA> Dawn as such, and was working with Francis Regardie shortly after FR MA> retired to Sedona. But I supposed it to be a pre-Crowley G.'.D.'. MA> effort. This present organization is clearly Crowley-inclusive. MA> Anyone have any comments? Yeah, you gotta get out more often! AFAIK, the TOGD has been around for a couple of decades, and was originally founded with Hyatt as head and Cherubim as Ops director. (Little mil-speak for ya.) They seem serious (unlike the EGD people, who from what I've seen are clowns at best, and -if one disaffected former member is to be believed- a scam at worst) and dedicated to bringing a Regardie-style G.D. Order into the Aeon Horii. Despite a tinge of Regardieolatry in some of their statements, they seem to be honestly walking their talk. Sir David has received a number of interesting libri. I've got about 1.5 meg (ZIPped) of their material on disk, and can mail it if you're really interested. Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... Then was there silence. Speech had done with us awhile. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: All 11 Nov 94 17:59:26 Subject: Round up the usual suspects! UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. It never ceases to amaze me how people can print any damn thing and no one calls them on it. Witness the following, from the Chambers Encyclopedia Guide to The Occult, by Andre Nataf. ************************************************************************** CROWLEY, Aleister 1875-1947 An abortive quest for supernatural powers. From poetry to sexual magic, by way of drugs, Crowley spent his life in a fruitless search for supernatural powers. Born into an upper middle-class puritan family, Crowley first became interested in the occult while an undergraduate at Cambridge. Always a controversial figure, the press first took him to taks for his advocacy of eroticism in his _White Stains_. By way of reply, he gave a lecture in his mistress's home on "sexual poverty in Britain." He then joined the Order of the Golden Dawn, a secret society of which the poet W. B. Yeats and Bram Stoker, the author of _Dracula_, were also members. Crowley became the society's grand master and formed a homosexual partnership with Allan Bennett, known as Iohi Aour, another of its members. The two of them abandoned themselves to magic and Crowley declared his wish to become a "saint of Satan" and to be known as the "Great Beast" or "the wickedest man alive." In 1900, Crowley was expelled from the Order of the Golden Dawn for extreme practices. He founded his own order, the Silver Star, and set out to travel the world. Crowley settled for a several years in Sicily with a group of disciples, but rumours of drugs, orgies and even sacrifices led to his expulsion from Italy. His travels also took him to Ceylon, where he met up again with Bennett, who had become a Buddhist monk, and to Madras where he was initiated into Tantrism. In Paris, he met Rodin, Rilke, Somerset Maugham and finally Rose Edith Kelley, his 'scarlet woman' whom he was to marry. It was in Cairo that a medium in a trance revealed the 'ultimate mysteries' of sexual magic to the young couple and urged them to set up the order of the Silver Star. Rose died an alcoholic, leaving a daughter called Night my Athatour Hecate Sappho Jezabel Lilith, who was to die in tragic circumstances. Crowley, who lived for some time at Boleskine, on the shores of Loch Ness, continued to travel, surrounded by women. With Victor Neuberg, he journeyed into the Algerian desert to meet the spirit of evil. The two men were later found half-dead with exhaustion. Crowley finally came to believe he was a vampire, began to inject heroin, and adopted a wildly promiscuous lifestyle. When war broke out, he offered Churchill an infallible magic method to acheive victory. Churchill declined the offer! ************************************************************************* Whaddaya think, folks: shall we have a contest to see who can find the most errors, mis-statements, and outright lies in this gem? Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir Fr. Vitriol Io, O.T.O. ... I was alone in a great park, and by a certain hillock was a ring 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Andrew Haigh Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 9 Nov 94 13:03:00 Subject: Re: THE ABYSS UpdReq RD> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. RD> RD> Howdy Josh! RD> [a clear description of the process; snipped] RD> Just wanted to say thanks for the above...probably the RD> clearest and most accurate description I've read of RD> the 'inner initiation' process! SUCK, BTW.> ;> RD> RD> Love is the law, love under will. Heh... what really sucks is when you realize that once you have finished with one trip through the cycle, it starts all over again, just a little more chaotic and powerful. It seems as though there are cycles and sub-cycles and sub-sub-cycles where these steps are repeated and recursed through over and over and over again. But then again, it is the trip, not the destination, the doing rather than the getting, the surfing not the wave, that is important. But if I had to do it all over again, I more than likely would. @:|---- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Andrew Haigh Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 9 Nov 94 13:08:40 Subject: Initiation UpdReq TMT> An odd thing occured to me today. I looked into the mirror and TMT> realized that the person looking back was not me. Yes, light speed is fast, but not infinitely so. The reflection one sees in the mirror is no more than the image of a being slightly further along the time axis than you are. TMT> This may seem to be a simple realization, but it is TMT> very powerful when it hits one the right way. I TMT> found that my reflection offered up no information as TMT> to my personality, my likes, my dislikes, or my TMT> beliefs. It seems odd to me that so many people can TMT> judge others and say they know others by just looking TMT> at them in a club or on TV. I know that this is a They are not looking at the image of the person, rather they are getting a feeling from the vibratory patterns emitted by the person they are reading. It is a matter of tuning in the right signals the right way. TMT> basic idea, but what I am afraid others do not TMT> understand, is that I felt this completely when TMT> before, I just gave it a passing thought. Somehow, TMT> this idea has become a part of me, and I do not know TMT> from whence it came. Any ideas? ESP can be quite unnerving to most people as they lack the paradigmatic support needed to allow themselves to believe that they are actually sensing true information and not just going mad. TMT> It seems that the energies that I absorbed in my recent initiation have TMT> expanded themselves and are more diverse than I first Good, then there is a better chance of you integrating those energies into your being and not revert to your old behavioural patterns. TMT> thought. This thought struck me as hard if not more TMT> so as when I looked at a group of my peers and saw TMT> them all as nothing more than hairless apes TMT> journeying in and out of classes in a futile hope to TMT> make something of themselves, but luckily this was a TMT> more positive affirmation. Sometimes the robot can be a tad scary. When one realizes that most people simply fill their survival imperatives and not give any thought to the immmensity of existance. But it seems that the tide is slowly turning, one sees more and more people turning on to their higher selves all the time. TMT> I have arisen from an ambiguous and confusing state TMT> of mind to a more centered,peaceful, and happy ideal TMT> of humanity and those influences surrounding me. I TMT> sit and laugh to myself sometimes for no reason. I TMT> enjoy the very thrill of existence, its wonderful TMT> surprises and pains titillate me in a way that sends TMT> shivers of joy throughout my being. Who knew that TMT> life could be this grand? And more importantly Why did they keep it secret for so long? TMT> If all initiations are such as this, then how can I TMT> stop advancing myself? I now feel that I can hold at TMT> least the title of Zelator without a fear of TMT> preaching falsehoods to those that ask. You can't stop the process, just be warned that there will be times when you feel as though you are diving into every hell you can conceive of. Just take a page from the hitchiker's Guide, and Don't Panic! :) Everything eventually comes out for the best so long as you keep you'r aim true. @:|---- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: JOSEPH MAX Area: Thelema To: KAYLA BLOCK 8 Nov 94 08:52:00 Subject: RE: THELEMIC MEANINGS UpdReq -=> Quoting Kayla Block to Joseph Max <=- KB> 93 joseph! JM> KAYLA! Where ya been, girlfriend! I was just thinking about you the other JM> day, and was about to post a message to see if anyone had heard from ya KB> i've been prowling the internet quite a bit, and starting to explore KB> the possibilities of cyber-ritual. haven't been too active as far as KB> posting anywhere goes.been more in lurk mode for some reason. still KB> trying to make a trip north to go house-hunting. we'll have to hook KB> up when i'm there. :-) Cool! What's your Internet address? And if you're into cyber-ritual, you should be on the TIAMAT mailing list, because that's exactly what it's about! Just send a message to: tiamat-l@netcom.com consisting of one line, as follows: subscribe IOW, but your net address after the word "subscribe" - you know how it works, right? You can reach me at max@tatertot.com until 11/20, then after that at max@atticus.com or hamlet@atticus.com. Send me your net address and I'll send you my new voice number and snail mail address. Yes, let's definitely hook up this time. Hee hee and 93! - J:.M:.555 ... "What?!? This isn't the Files section?!?" ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: JOSEPH MAX Area: Thelema To: ROSE DAWN 8 Nov 94 08:52:00 Subject: RE: THE ABYSS UpdReq -=> Quoting Rose Dawn to Josh Norton <=- > Every initiation begins when the individual is exposed to magickal > energies descending from a level at which he is not yet capable of > operating consciously. After the energy comes into the person, the > process of integrating it and moving the consciousness upwards > typically involves four stages: > > -- A "blind" stage, in which nothing much seems to be happening. The > person may experience an elevated state for a while, or he may not. > > -- A "death" or "dissolution" stage, in which the energy acts to break > up his perceptions, mentation, and conceptions. > > -- A "solar" stage, in which things start to come together again in a > new way that allows the consciousness to remain stable at a higher > level. This is the stage of the "Aha!" experience, where new insights > tumble into the mind one after the other. > > -- An "aftermath" stage, in which the person uses the insights gained > to reorganize his general knowledge and activities. RD> Just wanted to say thanks for the above...probably the clearest and RD> most accurate description I've read of the 'inner initiation' process! I agree, and also applaud and thank you, Josh - I'm keeping this one to go into the files. RD> ;> ...and suck _badly_, with braces. They don't call it "The Long Dark Night Of The Soul" for nothing. But in retrospect, it was worth it. I'm lucky no one was around to see me at certain points along the way through said Abyss, or I'd have been taken away for electro-shock treatments and lobotomy drugs... "...they're coming to take me away... ho ho... hee hee... ha ha..." RD> Love is the law, love under will. RD> -!- Courtesy of Silver Xpress RD> ! Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-line/ (619) 447-5010 (1:202/311) RD> @PATH: 202/311 1000/1 9600/0 ... Everyone knows the way; however, few indeed, walk it... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Andrew Haigh 11 Nov 94 03:08:58 Subject: Initiation UpdReq AH> And more importantly Why did they keep it secret for so long? AH> Perhaps my biggest question in this vein is how can so many people ignore spirituality and magick when it is so simple? Read the fantasy books and you see incredible misconceptions about the difficulty of magick and its aims. Of course this is only to entertain the reader, but I personally found _Moonchild_ more entertaining than most novels on the market. AH> Sometimes the robot can be a tad scary. When one realizes that AH> most people simply fill their survival imperatives and not give AH> any thought to the immmensity of existance. But it seems that AH> the tide is slowly turning, one sees more and more people AH> turning on to their higher selves all the time. True, very true. The Magickal Revival that Grant wrote about is definately occuring even as we speak. Have you read Hecate's Garden by any chance, I hear that it's about the works of his Typhonian Lodge, and the thought just hit me that he may have used his lodge to spur people into magickal realizations. Just a thought. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 11 Nov 94 03:15:06 Subject: Friends? UpdReq MH> I had a very strong conviction that I was a person who was close to MH> Aleister Crowley in a previous life. This conviction really wound up MH> becoming an obsession in every sense of the word, including the MH> magickal/supernatural sense. I had to say "that's nice...a neat MH> possibility but one can never be sure" then gently set it aside, if I MH> was to keep my sanity intact. Looks as though we might have a bit in common in that aspect. It's tempting to make yourself believe it. My problem was that my fiancee was doing what she could to support this opinion. As you said earlier, Doubt is a wonderful thing. Have you ever had a past life reading done on you? I am curious as to how those things work out. I plan to have one done soon for free, just to experiment and see if future lives can be accessed also. I think that if I did manifest a life of an early Thelemite, I would probably still shrug. Who says that one didn't convince oneself. Even so, unless you willed your possessions to your present life, it wouldn't rightly matter would it. Ask the Tibetans how to do that one. PAX 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Aquino Area: Thelema To: Ned 9 Nov 94 10:16:00 Subject: Re: Synthesis UpdReq Ned> MA>[I think this is enough to make the point about Hegel's relevance to Ned> the MA>"generalization/particularization" concept. ..] Ned> Ned> Yes it does illustrate H's general relevance quite nicely. Thank you. Ned> Which bits do the Setians subscribe to? I don't think that most Setians would "subscribe" to Hegel, nor exclusively or principally to any of the other philosophers whose study we recommend. Each philosopher develops, and tries to explain, a kind of "intellectual lens" through which to peer to make existence, consciousness, the self and the not-self somewhat intelligible. Hegel took the notion of a single, universal intelligence (="God") to a kind of mechanistic, theoretically-predictable height, and per my earlier post I would commend Hegel to someone who seeks evidence of "God" in the march of events. But certainly there are lacunae in the Hegelian approach, as Nietzsche delighted in pointing out. So we would not say "believe H" or "disbelieve H", but simply "consider H" in the construction of your own "lens". To try to understand the universe without Hegel is simply that much more unstructured a process. In fact you could make a case for saying that Hegel's "Dialectic Idealism" embraces even Hegel's own refutation, leading to a more accurate synthesis of ideas, etc. Rare is the philosopher who provides in his own philosophy such a neat formula for its own obsolescence & transcendence! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Aquino Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 9 Nov 94 10:17:56 Subject: Re: Initiation UpdReq TMT> An odd thing occured to me today. I looked into the mirror and TMT> realized that the person looking back was not me. This may seem to be TMT> a simple realization, but it is very powerful when it hits one the TMT> right way. I found that my reflection offered up no information as to TMT> my personality, my likes, my dislikes, or my beliefs. It seems odd to TMT> me that so many people can judge others and say they know others by TMT> just looking at them in a club or on TV. I Sounds as though you've been reading Sartre's _Nausea_. If you haven't, take it out for a spin! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Walter Five Area: Thelema To: All 11 Nov 94 15:37:10 Subject: Natural laws? UpdReq From: walter5@brewich.com (Walter Five) Newsgroups: pod.thelema Subject: Natural laws? Paul.Hume@f3.n1000.z31.fidonet.org (Paul Hume) writes: > Michelle - > AH> There are no laws that cannot be subverted in one way or > AH> another. > > MH> Well then, can "Do What Thou Wilt" be subverted? > > Depends how you defined subversion, I suspect (g). We have all probably been > unlucky enough to run into the "Thelemite" who invokes "do what thou wilt..." > to justify outrageous impositions on the Wills of others, ranging from theft > assaults ("sexual" or otherwise). And the no less insidious wanna-guru-bees w > instruct that only by suppressing your perception of Will can allow you to gr > into a big strong magician (the "do what *I* will shall be the whole of the > Law" specimens). Ahhh! I see you've *met* his Immenseness, the Daemon Magus! (Hee!-Hee!) > > And of course, "the slaves shall serve" justifies anything you DO get away > with. As long as you don't get caught! Blessed Beast! Walter Five ------------------ walter5@brewich.com (Walter Five) Origin: The Brewers' Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350 3 lines 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 11 Nov 94 11:54:04 Subject: The Abyss UpdReq RD> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. RD> RD> Howdy Josh! RD> Hi! > Every initiation begins when the individual is exposed to magickal > energies descending from a level at which he is not yet capable of > operating consciously. After the energy comes into the person, the > process of integrating it and moving the consciousness upwards > typically involves four stages: RD> RD> Just wanted to say thanks for the above...probably the RD> clearest and most accurate description I've read of the RD> 'inner initiation' process! Yer welcome. RD> ;> No shit! I usually think of it as a time of "miserable exaltation". ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 11 Nov 94 00:00:06 Subject: Synthesis and exposit UpdReq MA> But for you to go out of your way to snipe at the Temple of Set, which is not MA> interested in you & has not bothered you, Quite true, you didn't ask for it within a mundane context. In a magickal context you did, and do, ask for it. In both the literal and colloquial senses of that term. MA> simply telegraphs - accurately or MA> not - that you crave some kind of validation from it, and MA> failing that want to MA> get it out of the way (the rock on your highway) so that the absence of MA> validation won't be around to irritate you. Unnecessary. Magickally, conflict is as much a connection as acknowledgement would be. The attention is focused for a time, and energy flows until an equilibrium is reached. What happens after that concerns the current, not me. ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tim Maroney Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 10 Nov 94 10:11:52 Subject: Re: 10 = 1 discussion UpdReq > I regret that so much gray area surrounds my magickal work. The lack > of someone that can tell me "Yeah, that's right," or "Here's what > you're doing wrong" frustrates me at times. While this is an authentic feeling, you should realize that it is the antithesis of a Thelemic attitude. The essence of Thelema is to open oneself to the sources of spiritual sustenance within oneself and to be guided by that "inner spur toward virtue" of which Rabelais wrote. To the extent that you seek external guidance you have not yet become a Thelemite. No one else can create this transformation in you. At best they can train you in some skills which in a few cases have been useful to people who decided to turn inwards in their search for guidance. However, most people who acquire these skills never use them to become true Thelemites, and many people are Thelemites in the absence of such skills, because they have learned to put their trust in themselves rather than in any external agency. You are the only light that can illuminate these gray areas. Tim Maroney 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tim Maroney Area: Thelema To: Andrew Haigh 10 Nov 94 10:25:56 Subject: Re: 10 = 1 discussion UpdReq How abnout "Is there an Abyss?" It seems to me that many Thelemites are adopting a very limited skepticism in which a few transient points are open to question, but the entire edifice is not. To someone like myself with a psychological education it seems quite bizarre to assert that the Tree of Life is the ultimate model of the human psyche. What experiments have been done to test it? Personal spiritual experience, as always, proves nothing of a transpersonal nature, because different people interpreting their spiritual experience according to some system which they have adopted usually report results consistent with that model. Using such a methodology I would have to assume that the Christian sin-and-redemption model is correct, and the goyim qabala model is correct, and the Jain view of the universe as a vast human body is correct, and so forth; but they contradict each other at every point and I wind up having learned exactly nothing. One of the main flaws of Crowleyan Thelema as currently constituted is that it does not look at itself the same way that it looks at other religions. Other holy books are human revelations which are to be picked and sifted through for gems of authentic insight, but Liber AL =is= The Word of The Praeterhuman Intelligence Which Hath Been Plathed Over Thith Aeon. Other models of the psyche are interesting models for study, but the Tree of Life =is= an authentic reflection of psychological fact which could only be damaged by modification. And so on. Apply the Thelemic model of other religions to Thelema itself and you wind up with a very different way of looking at things. Tim Maroney 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Keith S Schurholz Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 11 Nov 94 21:39:06 Subject: Re: C.F. Russell and Michael Bertiaux UpdReq TI> Hi again! The Caliph is here in town on business, and we were discussing TI> K-H and FRA. Did you know that we have gotten in touch with Parzival? We TI> had a chance to interview him at his home, and find out a lot about how TI> K-H left things, both OTO and FRA. Is your source of Mass information TI> the same, or from the other Gnostic Bishops? Jes' curious. Things might TI> dovetail in interesting ways...... 93 Yeah, I know about the meeting - more can be said about it later. . . No, my source for the data is not the same, but it was confirmed as authentic by P. K-H. Re:Russell, his poetry, IMNSO, Rocks HARD! Will send some when all is available. The Occult Digest, produced by Norman Kaseberg and Friends circa 1972 has some of this material. . . Hope all is well with you. Things here at our Pangenetor lodge goin' great! 93:93/93 Keith S Schurholz 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Keith S Schurholz Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 11 Nov 94 22:15:22 Subject: Re: Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn UpdReq 93 I tried to post a comment on the "Thelemic G.D." on the Golden Dawn conference, and either the computer malfunctioned or the person running the conference erased it. I think that the G.D., at least for thelemites, is anarchonistic. Crowley clearly states that hedestroyed the G.D. and replaced it with the A.A. I don't think that his job of rewriting the G.D. material into the A.A. material was wrong, or misguided - infact I think it is such a vast improvement on the original G.D. material, both in scope and content, that the G.D. was in fact superceded. I can see that non-thelemic magicians might still want to be involved in the G.D., but why should thelemites? I think that people calling themselves "Thelemic G.D." might have found that the G.D. material is easier than the A.A. material - no doubt there, but it is SUPPOSED TO BE!!! This was one of Crowley's big problems with the G.D. to begin with. The people involved are probably not to hip on a lot of Crowley material, but have over loaded on the Israel Regardie material, an all too common, and lamentable situation. I don't think Crowley would be too happy with this new G.D. situation, and would instead suggest the A.A. to real aspirants. I only say this because I've read his material bashing the lameness of the G.D. I'll change my mind if someone, maybe one of the many great adepts who are on this conference, can provide me with an explanation. 93:93/93 Keith S Schurholz 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Frater H.A.C.A. Area: Thelema To: Keith S Schurholz 12 Nov 94 12:03:22 Subject: Re: Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn UpdReq Greetings, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. KSS> The people involved are probably not to hip on a lot of KSS> Crowley material, but have over loaded on the Israel Regardie KSS> material, an all too common, and lamentable situation. KSS> I don't think Crowley would be too happy with this new G.D. KSS> situation, and would instead suggest the A.A. to real KSS> aspirants. KSS> I only say this because I've read his material bashing the KSS> lameness of the G.D. I'll change my mind if someone, maybe one KSS> of the many great adepts who are on this conference, can KSS> provide me with an explanation. I'm certainly not a great adept but I did respond to your post on the TGD echo about a week ago. When you say "the people involved are probably not to hip....." Do you realize that you are also critisizing a lot of O.T.O. members? A very large percentage of TGD members are also active initiates of the O.T.O. I have no idea what Crowley would "say" about it and I really don't care. He's dead. Why are you so bitter anyway? Why are you drawing these crazy assumptions without any info? Love is the law, love under will. Frater H.A.C.A. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Frater H.A.C.A. Area: Thelema To: All 12 Nov 94 18:00:38 Subject: Thelemic Insanity UpdReq Greetings in Thelema: Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. I've seen this time and time again but it still boggles my mind. AS a member of the Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn, I have had to defend many attacks against the order within the year or so that I have been moderating the TGD echo. Why is this? How could other Thelemites possibly attack a group of individuals who are trying to promote Thelema and ceremonial magick. It just seems so oxymoronic to me. I respect ANY Order or group of individuals who are trying to promote Thelema. I have great respect for the O.T.O. (I'm an associate), the C.O.T., the T.O.T. and anyone who is trying to promote Thelema. Is it me or is something wrong with this picture? We already have enough trouble with the "outside" world. Do we really need to fight amongst ourselves? I'd love to hear anyone's views on this. Love is the law, love under will. Fraternally, Frater H.A.C.A. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718