From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Keith S Schurholz 6 Nov 94 12:55:36 Subject: Re: C.F. Russell and Michael Bertiaux UpdReq KSS> Hiya Tony I. Yes there is a slew (sp.?) of new material re: KSS> both C.F. and Krum-Heller. I am on the verge of getting two Hi again! The Caliph is here in town on business, and we were discussing K-H and FRA. Did you know that we have gotten in touch with Parzival? We had a chance to interview him at his home, and find out a lot about how K-H left things, both OTO and FRA. Is your source of Mass information the same, or from the other Gnostic Bishops? Jes' curious. Things might dovetail in interesting ways...... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tah-Holk `Na-Ha Area: Thelema To: All 5 Nov 94 11:51:20 Subject: Going to NY? UpdReq I wish to travel from Colorado Springs, CO (or within 100 miles) to Rochester, NY (or within 100 miles) between now and Dec. 21. I will pay for one half of the gas and share the driving. Thanx ... (Blink)(Blink) Simulated ANSI Graphics (Blink)(Blink) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Brian Dare Area: Thelema To: All 5 Nov 94 00:00:04 Subject: LBRP and Breathing UpdReq Anybody out there practicing breathing syncronized with the drawing of lines in the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. Several texts, the most recent I can recall being _New Aeon Magick : Thelema Without Tears_ by Gerald De Campo, reccommend breathing in while drawing upward strokes, out while drawing downward strokes, and holding the breath on the horizontal stroke. I am interested in comments on this, or related variations. In LVX, BD ___ X SLMR 2.1a X I crashed my Windows - used the Necronom Icon! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 4 Nov 94 20:21:02 Subject: grades UpdReq Thus said To Meta Therion to Josh Norton concerning the abyss: Hi! I'm going to split your message under different titles for convenience's sake. TMT> How do you know when you have been TMT> initiated into a new understanding without actually going TMT> through the organizational structure? TMT> I ask this because I feel as though I am jumping around TMT> left and right without knowing where I am. How can I be TMT> the best Neophyte, Adeptus, Magister without knowing that I TMT> am one? My usual answer is that you're never certain when you reached a particular "grade" until you're a grade or two beyond it. (There is an exception to this.) And in any case, conscious realization of a grade's significance is usually the _last_ thing that happens; most of the processing and adaptation takes place on an unconscious or semi- conscious level. Get used to living with the abiguity; it's healthy. Worrying about your grade is a time- and energy-wasting occupation. Just keep constantly looking for things that will take you beyond where you _seem_ to be at a given moment, keep yourself open for flashes of inspiration and insight, and deal with the opportunities and problems that present themselves to you. Absorb as much of the available literature as your time and finances allow. There's not a great deal of the basics that isn't published somewhere these days. And DON'T obsess about whether you're "getting somewhere"; the real changes happen in little increments, not in big jumps. Understand that all any organization can do in the way of initiations is give you exposure to particular magickal energies. They can't really help you to absorb, incorporate, and adapt yourself to those energies, which is the important part of it all. The rest of what they give you is intellectual filler, designed to ensure that you have at least some information on which to build your conscious conceptions when the time comes. They can't guarantee that their info will be useful in your particular case. If you've really got the desire for initiation, eventually you'll attract some interested parties on the magickal side of things, who will be able to do much more for you than any manifest organization. ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 5 Nov 94 11:59:04 Subject: The abyss UpdReq Thus said To Meta Therion to Josh Norton concerning the abyss: TMT> I was wondering if you could speak a short time about your TMT> journey through the abyss? I find it disenchanting that TMT> there seems no way to tell where one is according to the TMT> Tree of Life, without _intense_ study or link with a TMT> magickal group. Given the other questions in your message, I don't really think you have to worry about this for a while yet. I'm not really sure whether you really need a description of the abyss experience, or a more generalized description of the various levels of initiation. This being the case, I'll focus on the process, and spare the oldtimers another of my novel- length lectures on abstruse metaphysics. The events called "crossing the abyss" are an apotheosis of one stage in a process that occurs at every level of initiation. It is different in degree, but not in kind, from things everyone experiences many times. People often mistake one of these earlier occurrences for the real thing. It's not the process that distinguishes the abyss experience, but what comes after; the latter is unmistakable once it happens. Every initiation begins when the individual is exposed to magickal energies descending from a level at which he is not yet capable of operating consciously. After the energy comes into the person, the process of integrating it and moving the consciousness upwards typically involves four stages: -- A "blind" stage, in which nothing much seems to be happening. The person may experience an elevated state for a while, or he may not. -- A "death" or "dissolution" stage, in which the energy acts to break up his perceptions, mentation, and conceptions. -- A "solar" stage, in which things start to come together again in a new way that allows the consciousness to remain stable at a higher level. This is the stage of the "Aha!" experience, where new insights tumble into the mind one after the other. -- An "aftermath" stage, in which the person uses the insights gained to reorganize his general knowledge and activities. The death stage can vary widely in its intensity, depending on the strength of the incoming energy, the readiness of the person, and the amount of resistance he offers to the disruptions. It can range any where from a mild sense of uneasiness up to something resembling a full- blown schizophrenic episode. One's level of initiation doesn't seem to have any significant effect on its intensity. Where the abyss experience differs from earlier death stages is in the fact that after the incoming energy causes its disruption, it is not followed by an insightful solar stage. Instead, the person falls back down to his previous stable level, without much seeming to have been gained. He might get what seems to be a new insight, but on examination it will turn out to be simply an extension of something previously learned. These unfruitful disruptions happen over and over again. No matter how hard you push, you never seem to get anywhere. You get to feeling that you are wandering in a cold, dry, featureless wasteland of the spirit, with no way out. The need for something to come in and slake your spiritual thirst gets to be excruciating at times. In between these bouts, you continue to operate as an adept, but without much enthusiasm; just because there isn't anything else you can do but keep on. This wasteland period can last for quite a long time. In my own case, I bounced up and down this way for close to nine years. The reason for this long dry period is because the individualized self is simply incapable of absorbing and integrating energies from the Supernals. The self is finite, while these powers are transcendental; it cannot hold them any more than you can hold the Atlantic Ocean in a teacup. The powers come in, work some disruption, and then leak away again. The trick to solving the impasse is simple, but goes against every innate tendency of the individualized self. It is accustomed to absorbing things into itself; at this point is has to give up its central, dominant position in the person's nature, and allow itself to be absorbed into the transcendental powers. The individualized self isn't destroyed, as some people say, but definitely becomes no more than a vehicle for something that has nothing of selfness about it. But that's a another story. ... How many Romulans does it take to change a light bulb? ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 5 Nov 94 18:09:02 Subject: a place to start 1/ UpdReq MH> Nice to hear from you again, Josh, or should I say, Supremely Honored Josh. Just "Josh", please. Start taking me seriously and you'll be in REAL trouble. Half-serious is about right. ...But beware, o beamish boy! If your snark be a boojum... ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Ned 5 Nov 94 14:10:04 Subject: mikey's dodging UpdReq Hi Ned! Sorry I can't answer your netmail privately. I don't have outgoing netmail privledges on the BBS I'm using. But to answer your question, yep, he sure is. ...There was this duck, see, and he walked into a bar... ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 6 Nov 94 00:00:06 Subject: Synthesis and exposit UpdReq Hello Michael. See my most recent message to Zepher under subj: the book of coming forth, for arguments relevant to most of your post. No point in repeating it all here. MA> Instead of just grumping about it, or me, why not do something yourself that MA> you consider better. Actually, I have been doing so all along -- and publishing it, as well. Want the whole list? ;-> MA> You will be happier, you won't feel that you have to MA> orbit around the Temple of Set so much, and if you succeed in your efforts, MA> you can benefit any number of other people. (laughing) IOW, "get a life!" Got one, thanks. And it hardly "orbits" around you and ToS. Take a look over in the Enochian echo for some examples of my practical work; the theoretical stuff is usually too long to put on the net in one piece. Judging from the response, people are finding it useful, regardless of what they might think about my claims to particular grades. As far as my personal work goes, I'd be just as happy to leave you alone. This whole thing is rather irrelevant to it, and these periodic fits of antagonism are a damned nuisance; especially when, as now, they come in the middle of a long-term magickal project. Unfortunately, the magickal "current" of which this fellow is an expression reacts to you and your organization as if they were a big boulder sitting right where it wants to put a highway. It insists on dragging out the pickaxe and taking a few swings now and then. MA> So rather than destroying MA> Carthage, just build a nice, new city for yourself down the coast. Heehee. Already done. If you've got a fast modem, try calling up Baphonet or Arena of Anon, and downloading a couple of my recent papers: Comselha: An Enochian Macrocosmic Ritual Circle City: The magickal record of the first _Comselha_ working. An older record, titled _The_Book_of_the_Seniors_, might be of more interest to you. I admit to curiousity as to how you might react to it. Modem Magick in CA might have them too -- I don't know what all got sent there. ...Where's that confounded bridge? ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718