From: Andrew Haigh Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 30 Oct 94 09:44:44 Subject: a place to start UpdReq MH> Careful, TMT. There is only One who sits at the MH> top of the Tree, and MH> He has been there since even before the dawn of the Aeon of Isis. MH> He is not human, in fact, some say He is a God. And His name is MH> Hermes the Thrice-Greatest, Tehuti, the Gate between the Gods and MH> Humanity. TMT> Where do you get this info. You tell me that no one TMT> can attain Ippisimus? What is your theory behind TMT> this, because I do not understand. If no one can TMT> attain this goal, then why is it even mentioned? Anyone and everyone can attain Ipssisimus. Anyone and everyone can reach the top of the tree as well if they so desire. And Michael, who said Ser Trismegistus was at the top of the tree? Last time I skipped through those slender branches the being I found there resembled Levi's depiction of Baphomet more than Toth. As for why Ipssisimus is mentioned, it is something that is beyond explanation in any verbal or textual terms, it is a gnosis/gnowledge of one's true divinity accompanied by the experience of being right out at the very limits of one's reality and self. For a graphic/symbolic/metaphoric representation of this look to the fractals based on sin(x) and cos(x), Humanity is the lake at the center of the set, and as one progresses outwards along any of the branches, one progresses up through the grades and up through the branches of the tree. Get a copy of Fractint if you own an IBM clone and go from there. Playing with that program will teach you as much as any initiatic tradition can. @:|---- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Andrew Haigh Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 31 Oct 94 11:03:52 Subject: a place to start UpdReq MH> In my imperfect understanding, no person who is currently embodied MH> can rise beyond the level 9 = 2, that is, the grade of Magus. It MH> might take death to get one beyond that level Then learn how to die. Become familiar with the dead spaces that surround the live spaces we inhabit. MH> This is only one theory, however. But Crowley and various initiates MH> of the G.'.D.'. Current all agree: no human in flesh can rise higher. Then learn how to divest yourself of flesh and rise beyond the limitations of the body. MH> And this message could conceivably be taken literally. Just because MH> the grade 10 = 1 exists, doesn't necessarily mean that it is open MH> to mortal man. Then learn of your inherent immortality. Everything is open to everyone who knows where and how to seek it. If it is impossible in your reality, change your reality to one where it is possible. MH> The Ipsissimus is the Gate, the Mirror of the Dao. Be the Gate, do not simply seek it. Be the Conduit. Gnosis of the Godhead is possible, and Ipsissimus is attainable, just hard to interpret into laryngeal/manual symbol system for communication to others. MH> And to speak to another post, this from one who considers this to MH> be a "Restriction" and therefore a sin under the Law of Thelema, MH> I ask this: is gravity a restriction? It's a law, it restricts MH> our ability to just jump up and fly, or hop around as if we were MH> on the Moon, and yet it is a reality. There are certain laws of MH> nature. Perhaps this is one of them. Gravity is neither a law or a restriction, it is a 4-d warping of a space/time continuum around a concentration of mass. Gravity is an effect of mass in space/time no more, no less. If it were something more than this then it would be a much stronger force and would restrict everything from leaving its environs. There are no laws that cannot be subverted in one way or another. @:|---- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Andrew Haigh Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 31 Oct 94 10:56:26 Subject: Covens UpdReq TMT> Yes, One should always keep a beginner's mind. The mind of a child is a wonderful thing, clear of conceptions and misconceptions, too bad we become so filled with neural garbage by the time we become adult. TMT> Guess I'm one up on myself, because I have come to understand this. TMT> By the way, I just went through a drastic personality TMT> shift a little over a week ago. Is this the TMT> experience that you speak of earlier? Certainly could be part of it. For me the experience has been akin to lifting a completed jigsaw puzzle off of the table, throwing it to the ground, and scattering the pices about. As the pieces are recovered and replaced into the image, one finds that, not only has one discovered new pieces which seem to fit better than the old ones did, but some of the old pieces don't fit at all. But the overall effect is one of increasing structure in the chaos of personality. AH> What does not kill me makes me stronger... TMT> Yeah, there it is. TMT> How long does this last? Lifetimes? It seems to me TMT> that you wouldn't have to be a mystic or magickian to TMT> do this, but perhaps I am wrong. Anyone can live along those lines, one need not be a lunatic such as I to do it. Who knows how long it will last though, I sometimes feel that I have been walking this path in one form or another for eternity, at other times it feels as though I was the last to board the bus, and everyone is having a great deal of fun laughing at my stupidity and ignorance. But no, one need not be mystic or mage to do this at all, it has gotten a lot of people through times of great hardship without their being focussed on anything magickal at all. @:|---- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Balanone 31 Oct 94 00:00:00 Subject: Synthesis and exposition UpdReq JN> What I'm interested in is what you, Michael Aquino, Magus of JN> the Aeon of Set and Ipsissimus of the Temple of Set, JN> perceive the situation is from your _own_ experience. One JN> would think that you have had experiences relevant to the JN> question, and have synthesized some sort of model of the JN> relationship between the Neter and its particularization in JN> yourself, so that you don't have to depend on other JN> people's ideas. B> Grin, Josh, your impatience is showing. You're asking someone who B> has spent a very large portion of his life exploring these questions, B> discussing them, refining them, and who has published the results of B> his explorations in some very marvelous documents within the Temple B> ^^^^^^ B> of Set, to explain it all to you in the network equivalent of sound bites. Sorry for the delay...my first version of this reply got trashed through a stupid mistake, and then some magickal work sent my energies in a different direction. Work before fun. Note the accented word above. This has been my problem with the Temple of Set all along. First, that its members are so often insufferably smug about their supposed personal and moral/philosophical/spiritual superiority, and second, that they are not willing to expose the details of their philosophy and practice to discussion in the "common market" of public discussion, where the ideas would live or die on their own merit. If either of these things were not the case, I wouldn't keep needling you at intervals. You could shut up and keep both your philosophy and your opinion of yourselves to yourselves, and quite rightly say that the details of the system are private. Or, you could continue bragging and reveal those details, so that others would have some foundation for determining whether your opinion is justified or is simply a lot of hot air. But Michael chooses not to follow either of these courses. He gives us "hints" by referring to other philosophies he says are "similar" to his. But similarity is not identity, especially when he's converting from academic philosophy into an initiatory system. E.g., I could say with equal validity that my own views are "similar" to the neoplatonists, but reading neoplatonist writings will tell you almost nothing about my own work. At no time in all the talk has he given us any real idea of what _he_ has done with these things. We really have no basis for deciding whether he HAS done anything, or is just spouting other people's words. It seems to me that people ought to demand that any self-proclaimed (is there any other kind?) Magister, Magus, or Ipsissimus at least demonstrate that he is capable of original work in both the theoretical _and_ the practical side of magick. If Michael isn't willing to do so, then neither should he be waving those grades in people's faces. But since he does wave them -- and on talks shows, no less! -- neither he nor you should be upset if the occasional impolite soul treats him with something less than the awe and respect you think he deserves. B> Any attempt to do so, within the size constraints of a network B> message, in language you would understand (devoid of the Setian B> symbolism / jargon / shorthand we've developed to condense meanings B> into shorter statements), would be useless; the response would be so B> general as to be misleading and unsatisfactory. I've given you the solution to this many times already. Just publish one of those already-existent books (now available only to Setians) in which he explains it all. The public can then use that as a basis for discussion. B> You therefore have a choice. You can complain about not getting your B> sound bites, or you can take the time to explore the meaning of the B> very clear expositions you've already rejected. One path gives you the B> puffed-up feeling (you've "shown up" the Magus of the Aeon); the other B> leads to Initiation. (loud guffaws) For the other folks reading this, the fellow saying this is the same one who once accused me of advocating using human babies as a food source, and other vile practices. I guess I should be thankful that he's only doing his Chevy Chase impersonation today -- "I'm an Initiate, and you're not!" Apparently what's "clear" to you isn't clear to anybody else; I've received five netmail messages so far concurring with the opinion that Michael's replies were deliberate dodges and obfuscations of the issue. Given that I rarely receive any mail at all about echo discussions, this counts as a virtual avalanche of support. One wonders how many other people felt the same but weren't inclined to say so. If ego-boosts were the reason I keep needling you folks, I would have switched targets a long time ago; the gods know there are enough easier ones around. And you've given enough vituperation in return to shred anyone who thought their "self" was important. No, that's not the reason at all. And just to make things clear, I don't believe that Michael is the Magus of a "New Aeon"; I doubt whether he is a Magus in any sense. Neither do I believe that he has touched the core of the Set current, but just one of its outer layers; and he and the ToS have screwed up even that, through their idiotic insistence on Set's isolation and the existence of an untouchable "self" at the core of being. ...and in conclusion, I say again that Carthage must be destroyed. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 31 Oct 94 20:04:34 Subject: a place to start UpdReq Thank you for your insight. I can not argue with you about whether one can attain 10=1, but I can hope that it is a possibility. I am the sort that must keep working until I advance to the pinnacle. If I must die, then so be it. Is not a journey through the abyss a death? As far as my progress goes, I have no idea where I stand. I am not following any traditional pattern, but I seem to be well advanced. I know that I am on the path of my True Will, but am not certain how I know this or what exactly it is. My belief is that you will not truly know until you succeed. This keeps you from setting your sights towards the future instead of the present. If you look too far into the future, you will fail at your current goals and therefore fail at those lofty ones in the sky. The Abyss? I don't know. I may have entered it/crossed it/died already, but I don't even allow myself to think those thoughts seriously because I have no proof of such an occurance. I may have summoned my HGA, but I didn't get a handy little book from him. I did however loose an odd parasite that was consuming my energy source(fear?). If that was a gift from the HGA then I thank it, else it beats me. I had many people to try to get rid of it for me, but until I followed Crowley's map of _John ST. John_ it never went away. If you want the truth, I think that it is a safe assumption to put me in Malkuth, if something strange occurs and I should be higher up, then perhaps I will know. Good luck to you on your magickal works, and always remember that just because someone writes something down, even Crowley, doesn't mean that it is true. as they say, Caveat Emptor! Peace/Love 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718