From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 13 Oct 94 11:13:02 Subject: chaos magick practice UpdReq Thus said Joseph Max to Josh Norton concerning Re: chaos magick practice: JN> In re Enochian, I agree that all that stuff isn't necessary for the JN> invocation side of the equation; the calls and names alone are JN> sufficient in most cases to produce a response. But on the other side JN> of the equation -- making sense of the response -- a mental armory JN> full of symbols and myths is absolutely essential. JM> I believe that the tail ends up wagging the dog. The Enochian entities JM> will end up communicating with the seeker in whatever symbols the JM> seeker understands. If the seeker has a large vocabulary of mythology, JM> they'll use that; otherwise the communication will end up being very JM> direct, intutive and non-verbal. Who is to say which one is mo' betta? JM> For one who likes to write about and share the experience through JM> writing, the mythological background provides a common vocabulary to JM> communicate your experience with others. One without the vocabulary JM> can't do that as easily, but may have a more "personal" experience. JM> Again, who's to say one or the other is better? Hmmm. I'm having a hard time formulating what I want to say about this... [ruminates for a while...ruminates for a while more...] I guess my own past prevents me from being entirely objective about this matter. I've been having "magickal" experiences all my life, so my perspective is going to be a bit different from someone who was solidly tied into concensus reality and then had to break out of it. Concensus reality never fit me very well. My problem has always been one of making some sort of connection between the world-as-I-perceive-it and the world-as-others-perceive-it. When you've never been able to make the assumption that your experience is shared by others, finding a "language" that is at least potentially common to you both (and is sufficiently complex to be useful) takes on a larger importance. The inadequacies of various candidate languages also become more prominent, and the value of wholly personal, un-shareable experiences is substantially diminished. So far, the linked "languages" of astrology, myth, and image are the only ones I have found that I am utterly certain are common to every human being. Thus they are the ones I use. I know perfectly well that much of what I say is going to be incomprehensible in the short term to a large portion of the population; but since the language is based on the commonalities of our being, it provides a means by which they can work backwards from my words to the equivalent reality in themselves. This is something that intellectually-created symbol-systems do not provide. In connection with the Enochian entities, my experience has been that when they try to tell you something which is totally outside your current experience and thought, the absence of appropriate symbols in the mind makes it VERY difficult to get anything at all through to the consciousness. The part that exists on the intuitive, non-verbal level doesn't seem to register clearly until it does connect to some symbolic anchor. In one case, it took them over a year to pound the appropriate symbols into my consciousness -- after which the huge mass of non-verbal stuff fell into place within a few days. JN> This was primarily a response to the results-oriented terminology of JN> your previous messages, and to your apparent insistence that changes JN> in inner states are unimportant unless they produce observable changes JN> in behavior. JM> Forgive my overexhuberence on the subject, but I'm run into _so_ many JM> space-case magickal "mystics" who have gone through umpteen JM> "vision-quests" and/or "magickal initiations" that seem to have JM> produced nothing in their lives except increased discombobulation and JM> withdrawal from consesual reality. I don't call that increased JM> awareness. I think a person who has undergone a _meaningful_ initiation JM> will incorporate it into their everyday lives and express it _somehow_ JM> - which in itself _is_ an alteration of behavior. While I won't say that it applies to all the cases you've seen, I'd suggest that perhaps your observations of these people have covered too short a period of time. The first or second effect of any initiation is to produce a disruption of the normal thought-processes and perceptions. And in major initiations, these disruptions will occur many times before the person becomes stabilized in a new state that encompasses both his old and new experiences. If you take a look at these same people a few years down the road, you might find that they have incorporated it. (Incidentally, this happens to _any_ complex system when you introduce a new element; doesn't matter whether it's a person, a power-grid, a phone network, an ecology, institution, or culture. ) ... Just think--how would Bugs Bunny have handled this? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Zeekram Area: Thelema To: Starchild 13 Oct 94 17:37:00 Subject: Questions? UpdReq *** Quoting Starchild to All dated 10-10-94 *** > Hello All! > > Anyone have a root land/language/interpretation for the (apparent) > Names "Azarak" and/or "Zomelak?" > > Appreciate the help! > > BB > Ed > > *!* GoldED 2.40 > * Origin: Avalon: San Antonio's Pagan BBS (210) 308-9579 (1:387/57) > Well, Zomelak looks familier.... Could it be Zeekramise? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: To Meta Thereon 13 Oct 94 13:05:06 Subject: Re: organization UpdReq On 10-05-94 To Meta Thereon wrote to Navitae... TM> As far as sects go, I feel that Crowley probably wished to avoid this because TM> then you get a large group of people that think alike, and TM> no one with alternative thoughts to provoke conversation. TM> As long as there are groups that have no one within them TM> interpreting material differently, these groups will remain TM> stagnant and eventually atrophy because of lack of TM> stimulation. Crowley did a lot of what he did to prevent the New Current from becoming codified into an orthodox religion, with him as the Messiah. Of course, he did a lot of other things to paradoxically encourage Crowley-olatry, but Crowley, at his best, didn't want to be worshipped nor start a new religion. Take a good look at "Magick Without Tears," letter 31, pages 218-219. And also bear in mind this little scrap of doggerel he wrote... "There met one eve in a sylvan glade A horrible man and a beautiful maid. 'Where are you going so meek and holy?' 'I'm going to Temple to worship Crowley.' 'Crowley is god then? How did you know?' 'Why it's Captain Fuller that told us so.' 'And how do you know that Fuller was right?' 'I'm afraid you're a wicked man; good night!' While this sort of thing is styled success, I shall not count failure bitterness." I suspect that Uncle Al would be far happier with people working on their own, living their own lives and treading their own magickal path, than forever creating organizations around truths that should be passed on from one mouth to one ear. I've done the Magickal Order trip, and I've been a Solitary, and frankly Solitary feels best for me. The dangers of group politics outweigh any advantage of pooling energy. 93, --.\\<-H-- ... OFFLINE 1.35 * There is joy in the setting-out... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Randolph Clayton 13 Oct 94 13:19:08 Subject: Re: Sekhmet UpdReq TM> Thank you for the information on Sekhet. I have also found out from TM> other references that Sekhet/Sekhmet was often associated with TM> Hathor in a dualistic TM> relationship, RC> I have always linked Sekhmet to other Dark Goddesses such as Cerridwyn, RC> Badb, Morgana, Kali-Ma, and Hecate. I don't know, but as far as my own work with Lady Sekhmet, I see Her as being the feminine aspect of Heru Ra Ha, the female aspect of the Lord of the Aeon. If Heru Ra Ha is (as is spoken of many times in Thelemic literature) an androgynous being, a female aspect is not unheard of. And in Egyptian mythology Sekhmet was the sister/wife of Hoor sa Ast, Horus the son of Isis. (As opposed to Her-Ur, the original Hawk-headed Lord of the pre-dynastic Egyptian tribes) Both Hoor and Sekhmet are deities of "force and fire." They are both avenger deities...Sekhmet having to be restrained from destroying the universe after Set killed Asar. And on a less objective basis...this is the way that She feels to me. Hoor and Sekhmet are one Deity-energy. And that means Hoor-par kraat is Their Child. 0 = 2, 1 = 3. Energy manifests in dualities when it emerges from Source, and each side of the duality is triune in nature. But then again...wot do I know??? 93, --.\\<-H-- ... OFFLINE 1.35 * There is joy in the journey... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 13 Oct 94 00:25:00 Subject: Academia & Philosophy UpdReq 93- MA> My favorite is the conventional academic stance that MA> "philosophy began with MA> the Greeks". If you wander into the professor's office with MA> some examples of MA> ancient Egyptian speculative thought, he looks at you as though MA> you have just MA> dragged a UFO tailfin from Roswell into his office. Or such was MA> my experience MA> as an undergrad 64-68. Agreed- an education in how fundamentalism occurs even outside what's commonly considered 'religion'- especially disturbing for the young undergrad with lofty ideals about openminded thought. Me too. On the other hand, I was fortunate enough to get into a religious studies program with a really terrific Eastern Religion section- quite an immersion into the major Eastern traditions, with plenty of appreciation for gnosis as the heart of it all. I wasn't inclined to 'convert', but I did feel like I'd experimentally jumped into new worldviews and idea structures for months at a time. Really a good experience, I'd say. Funny how much easier it is for people to tolerate things when they have that foreign air of exoticism- just try talking about tantric practices in Western mysticism- then you're bordering on the 'occult'. But from what I hear, it's the same everywhere- I'm told that the average Indian reacts at the mention of 'tantra' the way the average american reacts to 'satanism'. Who knows? 93/93 /\ . . \./ \,/ -AR AAKHU-T X >< X /'\ /`\ bb125@scn.org \/ 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718