From: To Meta Thereon Area: Thelema To: Navitae 5 Oct 94 14:50:36 Subject: Re: organization UpdReq N> I suspect that A.C. didn't mind if Thelema broke into sects, or N> at least diversified. There is a point in the A.'.A.'., for N> example, when one can start ones own Thelemic organization or N> lineage. N> Sure, when views become impenetrable there are problems. Do you N> see a lot of that happening? Yes, actually I do see quite a bit of impenetrable views. Haven't you spoken with Grendel? Anyway, there does appear to be a large group of eclectics out there and they do seem to be growing, but there still exists people that feel they must go straight by the books when it concerns GD material. Wiccans in this area also appear to be set in stone as to how they do their magick. As far as sects go, I feel that Crowley probably wished to avoid this because then you get a large group of people that think alike, and no one with alternative thoughts to provoke conversation. As long as there are groups that have no one within them interpreting material differently, these groups will remain stagnant and eventually atrophy because of lack of stimulation. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Thereon Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 5 Oct 94 15:05:26 Subject: Re: CHAOS MAGICK? UpdReq So what does Chaos magick have to do with pulling from the Necronomicon. I noticed that Carroll has an invocation of Azatoth(sp) in one of his books and was wondering if he just decided to latch on to the Necro deities or if he had an alterior motive in this. Also, is Phil Hine's _Pseudonomicon_ in print? It seems that it should be, but none of the local book stores can get it in. Perhaps it isn't on Weiser? Any idea of where to purchase/order it from. Speaking of Chaos magick, what about Grant. I have heard his name pulled into that area on many occasions, but from the little I have read of his, it seems that his views are far from those of Carroll. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Ar Aakhu-t 4 Oct 94 22:28:00 Subject: Leon's Tarot Lecture UpdReq 93, AA> since (at the risk of sounding obnoxious) I was already AA> familiar with most of what he covered, save for a few details. Then you can mosey on over to the Thoth Tarot echo and answer my recent question there :) AA> I've heard an awful lot of good about him- haven't made AA> the time commitment to any of his classes yet. He's not doing much public these days. He is one of my favorite people in the Seattle area. 93 93/93, Fir ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 30 days. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: Thelema To: To Meta Thereon 5 Oct 94 00:38:00 Subject: Eyebrows UpdReq > By the way, one of my friends got his legs broken while performing the > lycanthropy ritual. Is this normal? He said he drew in too much > negative energy and a car purposefully swerved to hit him. If that's > what your rituals do then, nevermind. More likely he was looking the wrong way. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson Internet:mimir@io.com 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Fir 5 Oct 94 02:53:00 Subject: Leon's Tarot Lecture UpdReq 93- FF> AA> familiar with most of what he covered, save for a few FF> details. FF> FF> Then you can mosey on over to the Thoth Tarot echo and answer FF> my recent question there :) Arggh! I guess I had it coming... you have to admit, though, that Leon has a WHOLE lot more to say about the Tarot than he had time for in that brief talk- I mean, he basically zipped through all the cards as fast as you could, and barely made it through at the end of the time. What he covered were the barest essentials, an introduction more than anything, and much the same as anyone could hope to do. I imagine he has some wilder stories about the peculiar spins of many individual parts- he let a few by, I'd love to hear more. But as I said, his real tarot class is a major undertaking- 15 months, isn't it? Hasn't been the right thing for me yet. Were your Outer Groves with him on any particular focus? 93/93 ,-----. . . / H \ -Ar Aakhu-t | H | bb125@scn.org | H | \ ===^=== / `._____,' ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 31 days. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Navitae 5 Oct 94 03:16:00 Subject: Chaos Magick UpdReq 93- NN> My primary frustration with this is that I was working on a NN> Chaos NN> magick concept independently and found a bunch of other people NN> were starting to use the same term. When I checked them out, I NN> found we had entirely different ideas of the Work. So far, no NN> problem. But then they packaged it, and it became organized, NN> rigidified and not especially chaotic in any meaningful sense. I'm interested in more about your way (or non-way?) of doing things. Specifically, what you might have to say about the nature of the "Chaos Magick concept" you mention. In understanding what other people mean when they say 'Chaos', there are two references I can think of offhand to the word: Michael Moorcock's Elric series, which enjoyed a flush of popularity in the late seventies when it was included in the bibliography of a D&D manual. These science fiction novels were set in a cosmogony of a cosmic balance between chaos and law, and whose character played out dramas having to do with the nature of each in excess, and the transitions that followed between the principles. Magic was held to be essentially linked with chaos. You might smile at referencing a sci-fi novel as having a serious impact on magical philosophy or practice, but I think you can't ignore the number of people now involved in magick of some kind who were introduced to the concept of chaos this way- even more, perhaps, to the use of the term in charting a character's ethical politics (or whatever) in D&D. If you're going to talk about what people mean when they say 'chaos magick' these days, I think you can't ignore it. Whether the concepts are worth anything or not, I wonder how much influence they've had on various 'chaos magicians' yo hear of. The other reference I know of is the field of 'Chaos Theory' which became very popular in physics in the last ten years. This is what I hear people reference when they explain to me what they mean by the word chaos, but they usually have such a hard time getting any further than trying to express 'what chaos is' that I never get to hear what they have to say about how these theories apply to magick. The most interesting thing I've heard on the subject was by a guy- sorry, I don't recall his name, my dad has his book, I'll have to ask him the title. At any rate, he was calling it 'boundary theory' or '____ theory' or something... basically that where the interesting stuff happens is not in pure Chaos or in pure order, but in the boundary between them, the twilight area where structures appear and melt and form interesting events. This to me fits in very well with what I hear Crowley expressing in THelemic ideas, of a spot at the border of the union of opposites and such, as exressed for instance in Liber Tzaddi where he speaks of being 'between an abyss of height and an abyss of depth'. This suggest to me really exciting ideas about Nuit & Hadit and such poalrities and their relation to pattern and chaos polarities. So that's what I think of as a chaos - magick connection. I don't think of myself as a chaos magician, myself. But I'm really interested to hear what you might have to say about your own ideas on the subject. 93/93 /\ . . \./ \,/ -AR AAKHU-T X >< X /'\ /`\ bb125@scn.org \/ ... 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