From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 22 Sep 94 18:14:24 Subject: Liber al prophecy UpdReq -=> Josh Norton sent a message to Christeos Pir on 18 Sep 94 12:10:00 <=- -=> Re: Liber al prophecy <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. JN> As the Christians learned -- and the Nostradamans SHOULD have learned, JN> a prophecy that's too far out from real-time isn't worth a great deal. JN> Think how many different versions of the "beast with ten horns" have JN> been offered since Revelations was written. And yet, more has been built upon Revelations than you can shake a shepherd's crook at... Furthermore, the Gods have their own timetables. ("He's not a TAME lion...") JN> Once you lose that contextual connection, everyone starts interpreting JN> it in terms of events during their own lifetime, or in terms of events JN> they know only through the lies we call "history". The range of JN> possible meanings opens up beyond the point where meaningful selection JN> can take place. First of all, it seems to me that particular verse is open to such a broad range of interpretations already. More than needing to come within someone's particular lifetime, I think the test of a correct interpretation is that people say, "Hey! That makes sense!" JN> In re "bow down" -- that's one of the meanings of "abase". Maybe JN> that's where you got it. Well, there's a difference between abased as "bowing down" and abased as in "grovelling." I think. Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... so do my words devour the spirit of man. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 22 Sep 94 14:10:34 Subject: Liber al prophecy UpdReq Hello Josh! 14 Sep 94 16:18, Josh Norton wrote to All: JN> The first sentence of that verse reads: JN> "I am the warrior Lord of the Forties: the Eighties cower before JN> me, & are abased." JN> If I remember correctly, Crowley took this line as prophecy of JN> great wars in the 1940's and 1980's, and later took the JN> occurrance of WWII as a fulfillment of the prophecy. There was JN> also some connection made -- perhaps not by Crowley -- between JN> Horus and the development of nuclear weapons. Yep, well be that as it may, anyone living in Britain during the 1980s was under *no* illusion that "I am the Warrior Lord.... the Eighties cower before me and are abased", was a direct reference to Margaret Thatcher, and proof of Uncle Al's prescience. JN> Now I'd like to reconsider the prophetic angle for a moment, with JN> particular attention to the phrase "cower before me". I rest my case. JN> Comments, anyone? Really interesting stuff.... what struck me as I read it (albeit very quickly) is that it had a decidedly USA slant. Being one of those arrogant Poms , I generally interpret Crowley within a British context - probably quite erroneously, but there you go. Soooooo.... does Liber AL have a global message, or is it more localised? I dunno... just some thoughts which occurred to me as I read your comments. B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: P.R. 22 Sep 94 19:08:46 Subject: Web of Wyrd UpdReq Hello P.R.! 12 Sep 94 18:08, P.R. wrote to Julia Phillips: PR> I just got my copy on the mail today. Thank you very much Glad it arrived safely :) B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Grendel Grettisson 22 Sep 94 19:11:06 Subject: Web of Wyrd UpdReq Hello Grendel! 19 Sep 94 23:50, Grendel Grettisson wrote to P.R.: GG> To Julia Phillips: >> I just got my copy on the mail today. Thank you very much GG> She isn't online here anymore. Her node got cut off. But just when you thought the echo was safe from her, hehehehehehehe.... she came back..... Sounds painful, having my node cut off.... B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Thereon Area: Thelema To: Zeekram 22 Sep 94 17:21:12 Subject: Really cool things UpdReq Anyway, if this was to me. Line noise sucks. To meta thereon. A portal that opened and let beetles through that looked quite vile. A fuzzy white thing hovering over my head wherever I went Choronzon in the corner of my room A tall man(bald?) in the other corner who didn't want to be seen, and I finally chased away only to have him return the next time. These are all things that I have had visit me when I was preparing for Liber Samekh. I have also noticed a large number of things in my room whenever I read Crowley aloud(fiction). They seem to be quite interested in what he has to say about certain drug fiends. Any like experiences? Any idea what these are? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Thereon Area: Thelema To: Fir 22 Sep 94 17:25:34 Subject: Mathers' Rite of Isis UpdReq I saw a publication (limited) in Bloomington IN a while back, that I believe contained that rite. I can't remember the name though. It was oversized and was 20+ dollars. If it comes to me, Ill tell you more. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Fir 22 Sep 94 03:12:50 Subject: Qabalistic Cross UpdReq 93! F> "Exalt ye the Lord our God, and worship at his footstool; for he F> is holy," Excuse my ignorance but what does this have to do with F> attributes in the Qabbalistic Cross? (realizing this is Navatae's F> statement and not yours) That was my entire point! It has _nothing_ to do with the Qabalistic Cross! 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: Thelema To: To Meta Thereon 22 Sep 94 00:41:00 Subject: organization UpdReq TM> Anyone involved with an organization w/ a few personal TM> objections succumbs to the mind numbing preachings of that TM> organization. This is bullshit. Why does every organization that exists supposadely have "mind numbing preachings?" TM> games. Perhaps I am judging Thelemites too harshly, but I have TM> a fear that they preach more than interpret their sacred TM> writings. If you have any different experience in a group you TM> know of, then feel free to share. Who's talking about Thelema? I thought we were talking about organizations? I'm not a Thelemite. I'm an Asatruar. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 22 Sep 94 02:59:02 Subject: "diary of a net fiend" Rec'd UpdReq > Say, don't you have a copy of the Enochian TT font? I do... Wassail, Grendel Grettisson Internet:mimir@io.com 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Mars Gunn Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 22 Sep 94 14:21:00 Subject: Book of coming forth UpdReq You, Mr. Norton, have articulated my thoughts and feelings concerning the Setians in an extremely intelligent, fair-minded way! Bravo! To me, it's obviuos that they are stuck in an adolescent reaction to Christianity. They seem to be totally unaware of this and just want to "win" their battle with Christianity and anyone that they don't "like." They hide their emotional immaturity behind a wall of intellectual foo-foo and an air of ominous (and secret) doings. They're the worst kind of cowards- the kind that think they're actually NOT afraid. Thanks again, Josh for your brilliant breakdown ! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Mars Gunn Area: Thelema To: To Meta Thereon 22 Sep 94 14:23:00 Subject: RTOD#2 UpdReq Are you trying to be funny? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Mars Gunn Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 22 Sep 94 14:33:02 Subject: Liber al prophecy UpdReq Maybe... It does seem you have several good points but I also sense a desire to really make Liber AL "fit." I'm not a Thelemite, so I don't accept Liber AL to the extent you probably do. Is it possible that this prophecy simply didn't happen. There's never been (as far as I know) a 100% correct version of prophecy (thankfully). Plus, many things go on behind the scenes that just aren't known. Maybe we came closer to a war than we know (?). Also, as an aside, Reagan seems to have broken the "Curse of Tecumseh." Chief Tecumseh supposedly put a curse on the presidency after a broken treaty (c.1840) Every president elected since 1840 on a date ending in zero has died in office. Then Ronnie got shot and didn't (unfortunately) die thus breaking the curse! Maybe he did the same with Liber AL ... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Andrew Haigh Area: Thelema To: Fir 22 Sep 94 05:59:50 Subject: Egyptian Book of the Dead UpdReq Na> Ah, the earth element. Wouldn't salt be more appropriate? CP> Nah... it's already salty. F> Depends what the guy's been eating. I've a theory that diet F> affects the flavor. It does. Coffee makes one bitter, Red meat as well, while veggies will make one sweet. @~ 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Andrew Haigh Area: Thelema To: Navitae 22 Sep 94 16:04:18 Subject: RE: SECRET RITES OF THE O UpdReq N> Nope, I was annoyed. I can no longer refer to myself as a "Chaos N> magician" because numerous references to "we Chaos magicians" has N> made the term has become misleading (or at best, meaningless). I know the feeling. I work with Chaos theory quite often and have had a great deal of success with it, but it rankles me to hear people refering to `Chaos Magick' and then talking about Spare, Carrol, et. al. Personally I think that their work, although interesting to look at, holds no real value as far as my work is concerned. I have gained more through playing with fractals (Fractint) and harmonics (any guitar) than I ever have through what is commonly refered to as `Chaos Magick'. If the works in question had any sort of fractal geometry and chaos mathmatics in them then i would concur that what is being practiced is Chaos magick, but if the focus is more on sigils and other such devices then it smacks more of goetia than chaos. @~ 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718