From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 19 Sep 94 08:17:00 Subject: Chart Question UpdReq 93! CP> Thanks Kevin. Actually, the Camp Secretary is me. But what I originally CP> had in mind was a delineation of a certain chart (10/12/1875, 11:30 pm, CP> Leamington Spa, England) without mentioning to Jeanne whose it was. I Trust me, she'd have known. In fact, it was Jeanne who supplied me with the Leamington Spa lat/lon when I did an article on the same subject. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: To Meta Thereon 20 Sep 94 16:17:02 Subject: Solar enlightenment UpdReq Thus said To Meta Thereon to Josh Norton concerning Solar enlightenment: Hi! TMT> What do you mean when you use the term "solar TMT> enlightenment"? I am not familiar with this term, but the TMT> enlightenment I was speaking of was a more Buddha-like type. Western magickal traditions have a variety of "degrees of initiation", but only two or three of them are major. The others are variations or enhancements to the major ones. (Let me point out -- perhaps unnecessarily -- that I am speaking here of permanent _changes_in_consciousness_, not of organizationally-awarded "initiations".) The lowest major grade has been so thoroughly integrated into human development and culture that it isn't even considered an "initiation" any more, just a normal part of the developmental process. So we can skip that one. The second major grade is the solar initiation. It has a lot of different names: Solar consciousness, becoming an active soul, Knowledge & Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, Contact with the Augeodies (sp?) or Daimon, Christ-consciousness, Mediatorship, etc., etc. (I forget the Eastern equivalents, but no doubt somebody here knows.) These names are all for the same experience, but emphasizing differing aspects of it. The general characteristics of the stage are: -- Achievement of complete freedom from the effects of patterns of thought and emotion imprinted on us by our environment. Ability to separate the consciousness from the activity of the emotional and intellectual parts of the mind, and from the self-image, and to view these with relative "objectivity". -- Complete individualization. The awareness of being a true "self" with one's own innate nature and goals, and its own unique relationship to the rest of the universe, apart from one's previous conception of oneself. (The two following minor initiations provide the person with the details of that nature and relationship, and with an increasing ability to act out his nature in the world.) -- The first _direct_ contact with the divine, often in the form of a personification of some sort like the Holy Guardian Angel. Sometimes (but not always) it is accompanied by a sense of being a center of sun- like radiance within the world, and by an increase in the intensity of the aura that can be seen by those with the ability. In these cases the person is literally "illuminated" by the incoming divine power. (This differs from the higher "enlightenment" in that the illuminating power comes from an outside source.) -- The person also experiences a gradually increasing urge to pass on the received power into the world, and to perform creative acts that express the divine power. Other effects depend on the nature of the individual. In my experience, there isn't a great deal of difficulty in achieving this level. It just takes a certain amount of work. As long as you have a sincere desire for it, all you have to do is keep on invoking, and when you've invoked successfully, invoke some more. And keep a sharp eye out for opportunities to learn more. Eventually you'll get it. Or alternatively, an unending effort to consciously recognize and free yourself from conditioned behaviors, responses, and thought-patterns eventually has the same effect. Combine the two methods for best effect. The third major grade is equivalent to an Eastern-style "enlightenment", with some cultural differences. There isn't a great deal of documentation of this stage in Western culture, and much of what is there is hopelessly bound up in inappropriate symbologies, necessitated by the unfriendly attitude of the religious authorities. In Thelemic circles, the event is typically called "crossing the Abyss" -- a thoroughly deceptive label about which I occasionally rant -- or (uninformatively) "becoming a Master of the Temple". Modern magicians who have claimed this grade haven't done much better than their predecessors in describing it. There seems to have been a belief on their part in an unbridgable "gap" between the finite and the transcendental levels, and this preconception kept them from even trying to bridge it. Just goes to show how concepts limit perceptions, even in the best of us. I'm particularly annoyed with Crowley and Frater Achad for failing to see the clues in Thelemic symbology that show such a bridge is possible. Ooops -- I'm starting to editorialize again. Leave that for some other time. ... God help us, another Cthulhu convert! AAAIIIEEEAAAHHH! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Thereon Area: Thelema To: Grendel Grettisson 21 Sep 94 17:02:34 Subject: organization UpdReq Anyone involved with an organization w/ a few personal objections succumbs to the mind numbing preachings of that organization. Crowley did attempt to rectify this situation, but I do not think that he completely succeeded. There are a few Thelemites out there that are too busy supporting another's interpretation of Crowley's works to think for themselves. As for members of the Golden Dawn, how many of them do you see experimenting with the rituals and the teachings? Most of them appear to follow everything word for word, and if you don't, out you go! To paraphrase Carl Jung, every German during WWII was not a Nazi, but they could not help but get caught up in the mass hysteria propogated by those that they trusted. This can be seen in Christian churches, Secret Societies, and Football games. Perhaps I am judging Thelemites too harshly, but I have a fear that they preach more than interpret their sacred writings. If you have any different experience in a group you know of, then feel free to share. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Thereon Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 21 Sep 94 17:09:34 Subject: 777 UpdReq Commit the entirety of 777 to memory? AAAAAh!!!! There are some major correlations that it is good to know though, such as colors, stones, magickal names, and other handy items in ritual creation. By no means could I commit all of 777 to memory, that would take years!!! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Thereon Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 21 Sep 94 17:14:02 Subject: Solar enlightenment UpdReq Perhaps I did mean solar enlightenment after all. That is the path that I am currently after, but is there anything more that I should attempt to invoke instead of the HGA? I seem to get confused on the necessity to invoke or evoke things. It appears to be useless to me. Usually, if I wish for something, I get it. If you could explain the usefulness for evocation and invocation, I would greatly appreciate it. Also maybe some ideas on who or what to invoke would help. How would I know if I was successful in it anyway? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Randolph Clayton Area: Thelema To: Alex 12 Sep 94 03:23:06 Subject: Re: Thoth UpdReq I do wish my good Thelemite friends that you would learn the true spellings. In Egyptian/Tamerian Old Days.. Thoth was called TEHUTI. Isis was ASET or ISET Osiris was ASAR Anubis was ANPU Nephthys was NEBET HET Hathoor was HET HERET. I am lucky.. My patron BAST is BAST. :) RavenWind ... Yikes! My familiar is caught in the printer... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 21 Sep 94 07:25:00 Subject: Mezla Rec'd UpdReq F> What I meant to say is maybe the mystery issue is #9. TI> Dunno. I thought they got better about numbering as they went. TI> What's in it? Sometimes they have the year in copyright TI> mundanely, or the equinox/solstice and era nova noted on the TI> masthead. That could put it in sequence, if there. It's got the following in it: Intro to what the word Mezla means An Official Statement of the O.T.O. Concerning the Cult of Lam, The Dikpala of the Way of Silence A review of Grant's _Outside the Circles of Time_ Liber QNA = ANKh = Venus vel Nomen Dei sub figura CLI 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: JOSEPH MAX 15 Sep 94 13:53:12 Subject: RE: SECRET RITES OF THE O UpdReq JM> ....... or what we Chaos Magicians call the Invocation of JM> the Augoeides - Na> "We" Chaos magicians? JM> Well, yes. Myself, other Chaos Magicians I've worked with, Austin JM> Spare, Kenneth Grant, Peter Carroll, Frater U:.D:., etc. - the JM> editorial "we". I see. "We" as a very broad term then. JM> Quite likely other poeple following other paths have used the term as JM> well. I picked it up first from Carroll's _Liber Null_ but have found JM> references elsewhere. Perhaps from one of the many who were formulating Chaos magick long before Carroll came on the scene. JM> Were you questioning my identifying myself as a Chaote, my use of the JM> term Augoeides, or my use of the editorial "we"? The term "We" should not precede the term "Chaos magician" as it implies a consensus which does not exist, as well as negates a fundamental concept of Chaos magick. JM> Of course, Chaotes being what they are -- chaotic -- it's possible JM> that others use other terms or make up new ones. You can call it the JM> "H.G.A." or the "Augoeides" or "My invisible friend Fred" for that JM> matter, as long as _you_ know what you mean. Since I don't believe in such a thing, I don't call it anything. JM> ... Oh, I get it. You were kidding. Nope, I was annoyed. I can no longer refer to myself as a "Chaos magician" because numerous references to "we Chaos magicians" has made the term has become misleading (or at best, meaningless). Well, I suppose that happens to anything that's been processed and packaged for the public. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: Tim Maroney 15 Sep 94 13:49:12 Subject: Re: GD UpdReq TM> Though I have not yet read it, I would suggest that a lesser known TM> work by Dion Fortune entitled (if I recall correctly) "The Esoteric TM> Philosophy of Love and Marriage" might be a good place to start. Yeah, I had it but never read it. I didn't much care for her stuff (except for the fiction). TM> I also recall that Israel Regardie said in "My Rosicrucian Adventure" TM> that some minor scandal had revolved around Moina Mathers' introduction TM> to "the Kabbalah Unveiled", but on examination I could only find a TM> brief reference in passing to Mother, Father, and Child, the teaching TM> of certain Gnostic sects which apparently (based on a certain secret TM> work by AC) were in competition with the EGC. Other gnostic sects and certain secret work by AC? That sounds interesting, especially if they were in competition with the EGC (implying that they were appealing to the same audience). 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 15 Sep 94 13:50:36 Subject: Re: Liber al prophecy UpdReq JN>... JN> Other effects: the ending of the U.S.-Soviet polarity, and the two JN> sides' economic and military support of puppet regimes around the JN> world actually created an _increase_ in the amount of violence in many JN> parts of the world. JN>... JN> The U.S. was also "abased", in the sense of a loss of status. The JN> government's image as a superpower has been tarnished -- or shown to JN> have been largely an illusion in the first place. JN>... JN> So I would say that, in the interpretation taken here, the prophecy of JN> AL 3.46 was very well fulfilled. JN> Comments, anyone? Just a couple. You noted that back in the 80's, a number of people were commenting on the prophecy. I recall a few of them stating that "cower before me" meant that the 80's would be relatively peaceful (but, to be fair I don't recall many of them going into much detail). In regards your commentary: it looks to me like you've stuck the US in too prominant a position. Something more objective would be to count all the wars and lives lost during the 80's, and compare the figures to other decades. This assumes of course that the prophecy has something to do with wars. Motta interpreted it in terms of the court battle between the Society OTO and Caliphate OTO. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: To Meta Thereon 14 Sep 94 13:38:56 Subject: Re: Liber al prophecy UpdReq TMT> Now, since this TMT> prophecy was fulfilled, was this to relate to every 40s and 80s TMT> decades to come, or was it a short, shallow prophecy because the reign TMT> of Horus is going to be a short, shallow one? Are you referring to Horus in his warrior aspect only? One possibility is that Horus changes aspects fairly often over his 2000 year reign. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: To Meta Thereon 15 Sep 94 13:47:50 Subject: Re: Read this or die!!! UpdReq TMT> For all you incredibly serious cms out there, how about this for the TMT> LBRP TMT> Qabilistic Cross TMT> replace the words with TMT> ABC TMT> NBC TMT> CBS TMT> MTV TMT> Television rules!! Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Television? Ever heard of TOPY? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ned Area: Thelema To: JOSH NORTON 22 Sep 94 02:24:00 Subject: Liber al prophecy UpdReq Ne> Comment: Very nice and lucid though it disregards most of the world. JN>Mmm. I'd have to disagree, since the US/Soviet rivalry had its effect on JN>most regions of the world, through economic and military support. JN> Ne> dont think it could be applied as an overall worldwide spirit of the JN> Ne> eighties - but then the 80's, for me, were characterized by an exact JN> Ne> lack of any unifying spirit. JN>Hmmm....I'm not sure that the average peasant in, say, China, India, and JN>Uganda, found his condition any more abased during that period than in JN>the previous decades. Which point contradicts your earlier assertion of the "US/Soviet rivalry" 's universal influence. In any event the 1980's, while certainly as turbulent as any other time period, were not as clearly characterized by some over-arching theme as the 40's were by WWII. "Cower" and "abased" are fairly unequivocal terms whose contextual meaning one may expect to be plainly manifest, particularly if we take the first clause ("Warrior Lord of the Forties") as referring to WWII. If the cowering and abasement are supposed to be comparable, one shouldn't need to tease and filet current events to extract their essence. It does leave me wondering whether this might indicate that the verse isn't meant to be read prophetically. I did think your exposition was very good, lots better than similar broodings I've had limping ill-formed through my thoughts since the mid 80's. However, I still dont find the argument convincing. Ned. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: JOSEPH MAX Area: Thelema To: JOSH NORTON 19 Sep 94 08:57:00 Subject: Re: BOOK OF COMING FORTH UpdReq -=> Quoting Josh Norton to Joseph Max <=- JN> My thought is that any organization that is influenced by a JN> magickal current is inevitably going to suffer the agonies of schism. JN> And the stronger the current, the more often it happens. Consider the JN> multitude of children of the Golden Dawn that have come and gone, or JN> the several O.T.O.s and A.A.s. (I understand that even the Chaosists JN> (Chaoticists?) haven't managed to stay completely free of the JN> phenomenon -- didn't the IOT have some problems a short while ago?) "Chaosists" or "chaotes" are both correct and interchangable. There is some debate over whether it is proper to call oneself a "chaos magician" except at those times when one is actually perfoming a working -- it's complicated and I'll spare you all the details, unless someone wants to know more. As far as I'm concerned, a "Chaos Magic Order" is a contradiction in terms. The whole idea of chaos magic (IMNSHO) is that the practice of magic is not only a dynamic, ever-changing phenomenon, but is also a highly experimental, maleable and personal expression of art. JN> Reasonable enough, since the natural trend of any human organization JN> is towards structure, limitation, regulation, and definition; while JN> the natural trend of a magickal current is towards change. Sooner or JN> later the creative necessities of a current cease to be completely met JN> by its adherent organizations; it causes new groups to split off or JN> arise separately to meet those needs. The human conflicts involved are JN> just a reflection of this process. Perhaps the readers here might be entertained by a bit of history: The IOT (or as they have come to be known to their detractors, the "Idi-OTs") have been plagued with in-fighting, splits and schisms almost since their inception! One of the founding members, , resigned from the Order a few years after it's creation, citing a betrayal of it's original concept of a confedration of peers without a structured hierarchy. This left "Pope" Pete Carroll to try his best to come up with a way to reconcile that ideal with the concept of an organized magical "order". The result was the manifesto _Liber Pactionis_ (published as an addendum to _Liber Kaos_) and the formation of "The Magical Pact of the IOT". Carroll's idea was that The Pact was to be the "outer order" of the IOT, _not_ the IOT itself. Sort of the same idea as the inner and outer A:.A:. - one becomes a "member" of the Illuminates Of Thanateros by self-declaration and self-initiation (The Pact, of course, will not agree with that assessment - did you know they took out a commerical trademark on the eight-rayed star? Sort of like the Catholics trying to patent the calvery cross, eh?) As he concieved it, it wasn't such a bad idea -- several "checks and balances" were incorporated into the structure of The Pact to try to avoid the excesses and despotism inherent in any organization comprising "inner" and "outer" circles of membership. But of course, humans have a great talent for f**king up a good idea, and when the "upper echelons" staged a "coup" at an international meeting and attempted to enforce a strict heirarchy on the Temples, several of them (including the one I was once a member of) publicly denounced them and resigned. Carroll himself has since washed his hands of The Pact (whose hierarchy declaed him an "excommunicte" ). In fact, the Pact is distingushed more by the quality of it's _excommunicates_ than by it's active members! JN> About the only solution is to make the organization _completely_ JN> subordinate to the individual wills of the "units of action" (i.e. JN> human beings) who are the true effectuators of any magickal current. JN> Even then you can have problems, since any group produces collective JN> unconscious- level pressures on its members even when it has no JN> consciously defined organization or rules. The result of my Temple's defection from the IOT was the creation of The AutonomatriX - Guild of Chaos Magic (A:.X). Though there are "temples" operating as localised gathering points, the concept is that every member is a self-contained "lodge" with a total membership of _one_. But in spite of this, unconscious pressure to conform, to establish "leaders" and "followers" still arises spontaneously. Because of this, I am at this point "on leave" from the A:.X, though I am considering becoming active again in a new temple. JM> I like Peter Carroll's comment: "I don't consider a work of invocation JM> a success unless I'm surprised by the result!" JN> Most of the time Pete's sloppy thinking annoys me, but he sure got JN> that right. What's the point of exploring if you only end up where JN> you've already been? I know what you mean. The guy can be maddeningly laconic at times. But he does come up with the occasional good quote... ... "Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue." ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: JOSEPH MAX Area: Thelema To: GRENDEL GRETTISSON 19 Sep 94 08:57:00 Subject: Re: 'ELLO UpdReq -=> Quoting Grendel Grettisson to Joseph Max <=- JM> This was the lesson I learned: There is absolute value in JM> the work itself, beyond the obvious results. A martial artist who JM> practices Tai Chi will become a far better martial artist for it, even JM> though the Tai Chi is not strictly a fighting style itself. A runner JM> who takes dance lessons will become a better runner. A magician who JM> learns a discipline will become a better magician. GG> In this, we find agreement. Grendel, I'm willing to bet there's a lot more that we agree upon than we disagree upon! ... Reality crept in and I nailed it for trespassing! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: JOSEPH MAX Area: Thelema To: MICHAEL AQUINO 19 Sep 94 08:57:00 Subject: RE: BOOK OF COMING FORTH UpdReq -=> Quoting Michael Aquino to Joseph Max <=- JM> As I said before, there were more than enough _practical_ reasons for JM> Dr. A to go ahead with the split from CoS -- I know Anton personally, JM> having been the technician who installed his electronic music studio at JM> the Black House and spent a number of evenings in conversation with the JM> man. He's not a bad fellow, actually, but I can see how up against JM> another Mage with an equally high-intensity ego there would be sparks JM> a-flying... MA> In fact there was no ego-conflict between Anton and myself either MA> before or after his decision to sell the Church of Satan's Priesthood MA> and other degrees in 1975. The LaVeys and I were as close as family, as MA> correspondence from that time easily proves. Our 1975 estrangement was MA> purely and simply an issue of ethics, on a very specific and instant MA> issue. I have absolutely no reason to doubt your word on this, therefore I stand corrected on this point. And had I been in your position I can't see myself doing anything other than what you did - I think you demonstrated great personal integrity in doing so. A pity that it came to that, as I found both Anton and Karla to be quite cordial people. (Zeena, on the other hand, is another matter...) MA> Should the _Book of Coming Forth by Night_ have been a "surprise" [to MA> be authentic]? Well, it *was* a surprise as such, but it also coalesced MA> information that, in other forms and contexts, I [and other Satanists] MA> had known previously. [You could say the same of the _Book of the Law_, MA> which restated many themes and interests from Crowley's earlier MA> writings.] Depends on one's definition of "authentic". Which brings up an interesting question, if I may ask: Taking Crowley and Liber AL as an example, those familiar with the Book know that Crowley claims to have recieved it during a trance working as a "voice" identifying itself as Aiwass, a "superhuman" intellignce. Over the years Crowley offered many, and sometimes conflicting commentaries on Liber AL and on Aiwass. Usually it was declared that Aiwass was Crowley's own Holy Guardian Angel. Crowley never seems to have quite made up his mind if the H.G.A. was either an "independent" intelligence seperate from a human being's own spirit, or an embodiment of a human's own "Divine Genius", an expression of one's own spirit and/or Higher Self. As such, any manifestations of this "entity" are in the strictest sense an illusion, a "trick of the mind" that gives the impression that one is interacting with a seperate entity. In your opinion, where does the manifestation of Set as you experienced him fit in? Do you hold one or the other of these interpretation, or another interpretation entirely? I'm curious about your own experience of the reception of TBOCFBN, more than any "offical" Setian policy on the process of Knowledge and Conversation. MA> Giving it the most skeptical and secular interpretation, one might MA> describe the _Book of Coming Forth by Night_ as "an evaluation of the MA> current situation and a prescription for a constructive solution to MA> it" - and, to the extent that the solution was a good one, why should MA> we who founded the Temple of Set have delayed? We tested the concept, MA> and it worked - very well. As I said, TBOCFBN was quite a good political manifesto. And the success of ToS and the respect it's accorded in the occult community is indicative of the strength of the concept. MA> What *was* delayed was extensive reflection on the magical & MA> philosophical issues raised and treated in the _Book of Coming Forth by MA> Night_. Over the successive years I and others have written many MA> commentaries concerning the document as a whole and various individual MA> statements within it. This too has been an interesting exploration, MA> revealing subtle shades of meaning not originally apparent. One of the differences I've noticed in comparing it to Liber AL is that TBOCFBN is far more "prose" like and less "poetic". It is also remarkably free of the "obscure" kind of passages that are so common in Liber AL. Much of the critique I've seen bandied about on the nets seems centered on this. I suppose there are many out there who prefer their Holy Writ to be more umbrageous - it does make for more interesting cocktail party debates... ... "That's SULTAN Vile Betrayer to you!!!" - Iago ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Aquino Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 20 Sep 94 07:23:00 Subject: Re: _The Book of Coming Forth by Night_UpdReq JM> Though the tendency toward discretion on the part of yourself and ToS in JM> disseminating your philosophy is understandable, have you considered JM> making your other writings more available to the general, non-ToS JM> public? This goes back to our 1966-75 Church of Satan experience, when we found the tail to be wagging the dog, i.e. the priorities & activities of the Church revolving around the media and public opinion rather than actual magical, religious, and philosophical principles of Satanism. To be sure, we had "made our own bed" in that regard. It was just that in 1975, when we founded the Temple of Set, we took a deep breath and did some re-evaluating of priorities. We considered that magical information in bits and pieces can be at least confusing and at most dangerous. So we decided that the Temple of Set would try to present its ideas in a structured, graduated environment after the fashion of the ancient mystery schools. [One of our models, which we still like, was the education/initiation of the ancient Egyptian Her-Bak in the two books of that name by Isha Schwaller de Lubicz.] In my own case I am also - believe it or not - a rather private person by disposition. I enjoy sharing ideas with intelligent friends, but I feel no need to court public advertisement. This is why the Temple of Set was virtually unmentioned in the media until the craziness of the "Satanic crime" fad of the mid-80s; we routinely turned down all but a very few media inquiries. Obviously in the 80s we had to "get out there and explain/defend ourselves". You can't just sit around in the Shire smoking pipeweed when there are Orcs all over the place! Now that the ruckus has largely calmed down, we are gradually resuming our earlier posture. Interviews are again mostly turned down. We do respond with written statements where we think necessary, and will defend ourselves against misrepresentation also where necessary. But we try to keep foremost in mind the actual reasons why we founded the Temple in the first place - to keep the dog wagging the tail this time, as it were. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Fir 22 Sep 94 09:21:04 Subject: Mezla UpdReq I guess we can get at least one date clue out of it: F> A review of Grant's _Outside the Circles of Time_ That came out in 1980, and the last Mezla I have at hand is Vol 1, #11, dated Spring Equinox LXXIV, so I would assume that the mystery Mezla must be later than that one. F> Liber QNA = ANKh = Venus vel Nomen Dei sub figura CLI That's a nice piece. The Achad one? I am surprised they got it to fit. How many pages is it? Do they mention previous editions? (Level Press?) Thanks! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Navitae 22 Sep 94 09:13:20 Subject: Re: Liber al prophecy UpdReq N> This assumes of course that the prophecy has something to do with N> wars. Motta interpreted it in terms of the court battle between N> the Society OTO and Caliphate OTO. "The Mother of all Court Battles?" Henryyyy!! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718