From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: Keith Schurholz 29 Jul 94 18:27:10 Subject: Re: Archives & History UpdReq -=> Keith Schurholz sent a message to Ar Aakhu-t on 27 Jul 94 10:01:50 <=- -=> Re: Re: Archives & History <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. KS> Do y'all have the Memphis and Mizraim material? We have uncovered a KS> TON... Hey Keith... Is any of this stuff still in print, or is it all privately published? Mentioning M&M to most Blue Lodge masons around here, or even to the guys conducting the tours at the Washington Masonic Temple, results only in a cross-eyed "Huh???" Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir Fr. Vitriol Io, O.T.O. ... in order that I might search this river of Amrit, and sail thereon 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 28 Jul 94 15:12:00 Subject: public pgp key UpdReq > Oh BTW, you might want to consider locating a copy of PGP version 2.6. > This is a completely LEGAL freeware version distributed by MIT under an > agreement with RSA. Aside from the legalities, v. 2.6 contains a "time > bomb" so that any encrypted file created with it after 9/1/94 will be > un-decryptable by earlier versions. (The idea is to get all those > illegal copies off of people's machines and force them to get up to > speed with the new version.) After 9/1, version 2.6 will still be able > to decrypt earlier versions, so you could send mail out to people with > 2.6 but wont be able to read their replies. Actually, there is an undocumented command line flag in MIT's PGP 2.6 that allows you to go around there little tricks. Personally, I'm using PGP 2.6ui which is a version of 2.3 made to be compatible with 2.6 as well as 2.3 and prior versions. I have it (and other PGP and crypto stuff such as C programming libraries for PGP encryptian) on my BBS in the Cryptography area. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson Internet:mimir@io.com 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 28 Jul 94 15:17:02 Subject: More books... UpdReq I thought I would mention to you and others that I bought a copy of _Nightside of Eden_ today. Skoob has reissued _Cults of the Shadow_ (damn, and I was going to sell my first print copy too!) and _Nightside of Eden_. Moving Books is distributing it as is Weiser (I think). Wassail, Grendel Grettisson Internet:mimir@io.com 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 29 Jul 94 08:17:52 Subject: _New Aeon Magick_ UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. hi christeos! CP> Well, folks, Gerald's book is finally out, and CP> available at Borders, among i've been waiting and waiting! YEE-HA! (or something like that). i just got a copy last weekend, though i haven't had much time to do more than skim it so far. but i'm really happy it's out, and it looks good. :) CP> I see you got your name in the 'special thanks to' section, Kayla! it was quite a pleasant surprise! :) Love is the law, love under will. --k-- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Mike Ellis Area: Thelema To: All 29 Jul 94 15:20:52 Subject: Occult Resource Guide UpdReq Greetings to all, I am in the process of compiling the Nationwide Occult/Pagan Resource Guide. To be published sometime next year. If you or your group wish have information about you or any services, products, publications, ect. published in this guide, or if you are interested in being notified when the book is available for perchase (discounts multiple copys) just send the necessary information (Name of group or individual, address, phone number,pictures, discription of product, service or group, ect.) to: Occult Resource Guide 46691 Mission Blvd #300 Fremont, Ca 94539 This is being offered Free of charge, so spread the word! Thank you all, and Blessed Be! Mike Ellis ... "What?!? This isn't the Files section?!?" 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jaq Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 29 Jul 94 10:22:28 Subject: Re: More books... UpdReq CP> Just got a notice (no idea how they got my name) from someone called CP> Clerk-house Publishing: CP> CP> Gold Coins of the Master, by David Bersson (Frater Sphinx), and CP> all-new commentary of the Book of the Law, including CP> never-before released Obeah & Wanga wands, swords, and CP> rituals... plus a whole lot more. Limited Edition manuscript ... CP> $11 plus $3 s/h. David Bersson is to the best of my knowledge leader to Society Ordo Templi Orientis and its version of the A:.A:. . This is the group which lost in court in california the rights to call themselves OTO. It was lead by Marcelo Motta then. I checked them out and they seem to be MORE consistent with the original A:.A:. and OTO as established by Crowley. For instance I know that no money is involved(to the best of my knowledge). If any one wants their address leave me a message, I think the one I have is still current. Justin Harvey 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 29 Jul 94 00:27:00 Subject: public pgp key UpdReq > Now that I think of it, the docs did say the version _2.5_ had a few > bugs, and that 2.6 corrected them. Perhaps that's what you're thinking > of? No, the MIT 2.6 has a number of documented bugs which they SAY they will fix in the new version. Most people I know are just avoiding anything from MIT unless they need to use it for business. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson Internet:mimir@io.com 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 29 Jul 94 00:28:02 Subject: Bornless in the abrameli UpdReq > Thanks, Grendel had clued me into the name, but I did not know that he > had written other books. Do you have a list or a sample? William Bloom mentions in his own book that he had made his career in England as a novelist previous to his magical exercise. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson Internet:mimir@io.com 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 29 Jul 94 00:29:02 Subject: Bloom UpdReq > I got a copy of the earlier edition in '76 when I was in London, and > had not thought of getting the newer edition, though thanks for the > info. > Is there anything added to it, other than the new preface or frorward > where he explains his earlier use of the pseudonym? I think he mentions he did some better explanations of what happened with his commentary that was lacking in the first edition. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson Internet:mimir@io.com 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 22 Jul 94 18:51:48 Subject: Leos?!? UpdReq Hello Christeos! 18 Jul 94 12:16, Christeos Pir wrote to Julia Phillips: JP>> you know you were a Water Snake in the Chinese system? CP> Yup. Does it seem to have any relevance for you? I'm curious about this, as I only discovered it a few years ago, and it filled in some interesting things about my character. I know next to nothing of Chinese astrology, so I'm interested in whether other westerners find any relevance in the interpretation. JP>> "if you annoy this person, you might as well leave the JP>> incarnation as soon as possible, and get the next five or JP>> six out of the way as well. They have a very long memory and JP>> never forget or forgive." &etc CP> I don't really do that, though Alma does. I didn't think I did, but apparently it is an aspect of my character :-} Not so much for myself, but for those who are important to me. I shrug off stuff directed against me, but can go ballistic if it's against someone I care about, or who I'm responsible for. JP>> So we have a small celebration planned maybe? My birthday's JP>> the 3rd. Just in case you were planning on buying any large JP>> expensive presents CP> Nothing like a subtle hint. (And that was: _nothing_ like one!) CP> Well, what's the point in being subtle? You might miss it - LOL! CP> We're holding the Camp meeting here, for the Feast of the Beast CP> & Bride... I guess that's us! We're too broke to really CP> celebrate, tho. Some things are free ;-) B*B Julia ... Friends, Ferrets, countrymen, lend me your ears ___ TagDude 0.86 [Unregistered] 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 22 Jul 94 18:58:06 Subject: Thanks! UpdReq Hello Christeos! 20 Jul 94 18:47, Christeos Pir wrote to Julia Phillips: CP> Got the tape today -- haven't had a chance to listen all the way CP> through yet, but many thanks!!! Glad it arrived safely. I'll be interested in what you think of it. CP> Hmm... looks like I'll have to send that gold after all! (Yeah, CP> right.) All gold gratefully received :) B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 22 Jul 94 18:59:46 Subject: Salutation of the moon? UpdReq Hello Christeos! 20 Jul 94 21:17, Christeos Pir wrote to Julia Phillips: -=>> Julia Phillips sent a message to Christeos Pir on 17 Jul 94 -=>> 19:43:48 <=- Enoch & Metatron JP>> association of Metatron and Enoch having looked up the face JP>> of God.... is this what you mean, or something else? CP> No, I read somewhere that Enoch, after being taken up to Heaven CP> -since he ascended, he didn't die* - he was transformed into the CP> Angel Metatron. Let's see... Hmmmm.....excellent stuff deleted. Much to ponder here, thanks CP :) CP> The wise and virtuous Enoch also ascended to Heaven, CP> whence he CP> became God's chief counsellor, henceforth known as CP> 'Metatron'. CP> God set his own crown upon Enoch's head, and gave him CP> seventy- CP> two wings as well as multitudinous eyes. His flesh was CP> trans- CP> formed into flame, his sinews into fire, his bones into CP> embers, CP> his eyes into torches, his hair into rays of light, and CP> he was CP> surrounded by storm, whirlwind, thinder and lightning. Erm.... I've *seen* Metatron like this... ooooer :) In fact, something very like this is the way I usually experience Metatron. Hmmmmmm B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Kayla Block 29 Jul 94 23:03:54 Subject: Eric Ericson UpdReq Hello Kayla! 21 Jul 94 06:16, Kayla Block wrote to Julia Phillips: JP>> the identity of author Eric Ericson. A resounding..... JP>> another go now :) Anyone know? KB> the psychologist? Dunno :) I only know him as the author of a couple (at least) of novels, which are decidedly Thelemic in flavour. I've always assumed Eric Ericson to be a pseudonym, but not based on anything other than my intuition :) B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 29 Jul 94 23:08:30 Subject: Salutation of the moon? UpdReq Hello Josh! 22 Jul 94 17:34, Josh Norton wrote to Julia Phillips: JN> Personally, I tend to see Earth-as-planet being more closely JN> associated with Binah than with Malkuth. Particularly with Binah JN> as the Mother, as the Great Sea, and as the transfinite substance JN> out of which all finite events arise. These aspects are _much_ JN> more suited to planet Earth than they are to Saturn. And Saturn JN> seems to me to have as much in common with Malkuth as with Binah. Interesting switch.... one of the reasons that Saturn *does* make sense to me as an attribution of Binah though, is that whilst most of the metaphysics of these systems were being established, Saturn was furthest of the planets known to exist. So, it would (I speculate ) have been seen as the gateway to the super-celestial, or supernal realm. The association of Saturn/Binah seems to make sense in that context, though this could simply be an overlay which I have come to accept. Some of the associations I have are the limitations imposed by Saturn and Binah, the form/structure, life evolving from the sea/life evolving via the gateway of Binah, the gateway (life/death). Just a few rambling thoughts, but I will ponder on the other association, and see what springs out at me. JN> Switching these two around on the Tree was actually proposed to JN> me by the Enochian angels years ago. I thought their ideas on the JN> matter were rather good, but was never able to figure out a way JN> to institute the change in a workable manner. Well, who are we mortals to argue with the angels? Though I must admit that I have had some, um, interesting debates with Metatron ;-) JP>> Well, if we stick with the Greek, "meta" means "change; JP>> transcending or going beyond"; and "tron" means "an JP>> instrument". So, Metatron could be interpreted as "an JP>> instrument to change and transcend". JN> Meta-Tron = transcending Walt Disney sci-fi movies?? I've never seen it, but I do get the joke :) JP>> "Sandal" is from Greek "Sandalon", meaning, "sandal" (wow!). JN> Heehee. My Hebrew dictionary did the same thing, and I didn't buy JN> it there, either. One of the reasons I speculated on origins in JN> some other language. I suppose it's possible to justify the sandal analogy, but then, it's possible to justify just about anything anywhere with enough ingenuity :) :) B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Navitae 29 Jul 94 23:22:16 Subject: Salutation of the moon? UpdReq Hello Navitae! 19 Jul 94 16:10, Navitae wrote to Julia Phillips: JP>> Are there *any* Greek references to angels? I thought the JP>> concept of Angels was mainly Semitic, although beings with JP>> wings are (of course) really widespread. N> I thought it was mainly a Persian influence along the lines of N> the supernatural armies of Ahriman and Ormazd. They certainly N> had a big influence on the early Jewish religions (re the Dead N> Sea Scrolls). And the Greeks, after Alexander (if not before). Hmmm... are angels purely Semitic (via Persia), I wonder? I can't think of any other culture which has them ... unless creatures like the Harpies and other winged non-human entities could be angel-like. Any thoughts? N> Might be interesting to look into the roots of the Book of Enoch. Does seem to come up time and again, that one. N> Of course, the Jewish mainstream denounced Qabalism on the N> grounds that it's of Gnostic derivation (back in 1400's I think). Of course! It's all dangerously metaphysical, after all ;-) N> ... Jesus Saves Souls...and redeems them for valuable coupons! B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 29 Jul 94 23:30:04 Subject: SALUTATION OF THE MOON? UpdReq Hello Rose! 23 Jul 94 11:03, Rose Dawn wrote to Julia Phillips: RD> Hmm--I don't think we've mentioned the moon in a while. Should RD> oughta change that subject line, perhaps! ;> Okay.... how about HAPPY LEO DAY! RD> Happy birthday to you, you belong in the zoo... . ;> You're not the first to mention it.... ;-) >> Sort of.... but I'm more of a one for teaching about >> principles rather than traditions, as that way, people can >> identify what is a useful technique irrespective of where it >> comes from. Then, if the principles are understood, the >> tradition can be either used, amended or ditched, depending >> upon its validity for that person. RD> Do you add new people to your teaching groups, or has it been the RD> same bunch for quite a while? Different approaches at different times, basically. The London group descended upon us virtually in a heap, with only a couple joining later. Most of the real magical teaching I've done was with that group, and they are still going today. Rufus has a couple of them in his group, plus a couple of them work in Gerald Suster's group, a couple are on their own, and there are overlaps, when they all get together. The Open Group in Sydney drove me nuts, because people who were not really committed, just sort of interested, were in the majority, and it became very superficial. Although there was a core group of about 15 regulars, there was another 5-10 who dropped in and out, so we could never really do anything long-term, or very deep. When I terminated the Open Group, we invited the most committed to continue with us if they wanted, and all of them did. We initiated some of them, and then eventually made the group totally closed, for initiates only. We haven't taken any new members for the last couple of years, and I'm not planning on taking any on. RD> I'm interested in how you approach RD> all this initially, IOW. Kind of like 'Thelemic Philosophy 101' RD> , then 'Beginning Rituals', then RD> 'Advanced Techniques'? Not that structured :) I believe a magical training should be gained mainly in practice, fleshed out by theory. In my idiosyncratic universe, real magical experiences count for more than other people's experiences which can be read about in books. I don't knock the value of books, but I think the actual experience teaches far more. RD> When teaching about principles, do you RD> find that your guyz approach ritual on a more instinctive level, RD> than if you sat down and studied/practiced a specific ritual? Depends on the person, really. I've never taught ceremonial magic in Sydney, only a few months of Hermetics to some of the people in our coven, before coming to the conclusion that it was not their path, and wasn't ever going to be :-} So, in Sydney, I'd say yes, more instinctive. However, the London group is another matter entirely, and every one of them would describe themselves as ceremonial magicians, as well as witches, and are very ritually competent. I still make sure that members of our coven are able to perform a creditable lesser banishing ritual, even if they have no interest in ceremonial magic per se, because I hate sloppy ritual . RD> Also, do you suggest that everyone give the traditions 'a go' RD> first, before deciding that it needs to be amended or trashed? RD> Not really....although I suppose in a sense yes, because I suggest that people learn one set of ritual habits first, and then play around with them later. I don't specify the tradition though, just introduce them to what I can. So, when I first teach people about casting circle, I teach them one method, but describe a number of others, and suggest they try them out, and see what works for them. We have a kind of standard for our ritual work, so generally, people follow that, at least to begin with. RD> Here's a *very* basic example: before I started Resh'ing, classic example :) Some years ago, Rufus wanted to remove one of the levels of Hermetics, but I dug my heels in. He said it wasn't necessary, but I felt it only "wasn't necessary" because it had been assimilated, if you see what I mean. IOW, if it was removed, the system would suffer, even though, once that level had been passed, it seemed unnecessary. (Phew!) >> Good point... I think music "speaks" directly to the magical >> soul (for want of a better word :-}), so it bypasses the >> "correspondence circuits", and gets right to the heart of it. >> I use music a lot in ritual, and to me, it's one of the most >> powerful means of changing consciousness. RD> About two years ago, while immersed in psychotherapeutic journals RD> and other pedantic research for an article I was doing, I RD> stumbled across some research on the effects of musick on the RD> limbic system--I'll be danged if I can remember anything specific RD> though! The basic conclusion seemed to be pretty much what you've RD> stated above, with the stamp of academic approval thereon. ;> Always nice to have academic approval :) I'll be interested in hearing more about the article if you find it. >> Or, they are stripped of their superficial facades which >> restricted them to a particular location/time :) I think at >> root, all mystical truths are united; it's just that societies >> and cultures have overlaid them with their own local stuff, >> which obscures them to people outside that society or culture. RD> The esoteric truth at the heart of the exoteric expression, so to RD> speak? ;> Don't you think that sometimes there's a lot of power RD> in the 'superficial facades' themselves, though? I do! Me too, but as I said, the overlays obscure the mysteries to people who are outside of the society or culture who initiated the overlay. It makes perfect sense, and is very powerful, to those who understand and appreciate it, but can just confuse the outsiders. >> We do :-} Three of us share a love of classical music, two of >> us love heavy rock etc., and another is into pop-type music :( RD> Drums always seem to work. ;> Not long ago a group of us RD> 'locals' were together and there was some dissent about several RD> of the tapes we had there, but EVERYbody liked the drum tape! Yep :) Rufus was a percussion teacher, so we used a *lot* of drumming in our ritual, and it sure is one of those things that works really well. But, I must admit it irritates the hell out of me having a pseudo-shaman in a ritual, who thinks s/he is an ace drummer, and they can't even keep a simple beat :( RD> Aside: what do you think of D&P's _Planetary Magick_? I'm pretty RD> crazy about the book myself, and I think the Rites as described RD> in it would lend themselves very well to group ritual workings. Erm.... I've never actually read it :-} Most of our rituals come from the Hermetic system, or out of my head :) RD> Hmm, I tend to agree with the idea that one gets out whatever one RD> puts in when it comes to ritual, but in this case, it sounds like RD> the guy was putting a lot in, and not getting much out! Too RD> 'ceremonial' for his tastes, do you think? Could be... he was also going through a passive phase, which didn't help. He put in a lot of effort to get to the ritual, just nothing once he was there. >> Go for it.... Wagner's not the only one who can write good, >> dramatic ritual music . Speaking of which.... Siegfried's >> Funeral March is pretty good for some ritual, if you like that >> sort of thing. RD> I forgot to request the Requiem last time I was there. :/ You RD> think it'd be appropriate right after spending 12 hours sitting RD> in a field listening to Metallica, Candlebox, Suicidal RD> Tendencies, and whoever it sitting in for Alice in Chains? too old for this shit...LOL!> Never too old :) Go for it :) >> Talk about a shock :) :) :) Anyway, it transpired that the >> drawing was an original, one of a set commissioned by Madeline >> of the all the angels used in her system of magic. The magical >> current obviously runs very strongly in this system :) RD> That kind of thing always trips me out! Have you gotten used to RD> it by now? At any rate, whatta 2kewl story. :> I don't think I'll ever get used to it :) Another good one... after I moved to Sydney, but Rufus was still in Wales, I bought John Crowley's "Aegypt" to read. I was blown away by it, and thought Rufus would like it, so posted it over to Wales. (Scene shifts to Wales). Rufus just finishes an Enochian working, asking Nalvage for a sign that he is on the right track. Knock knock at the door, and it is the postman with my copy of Aegypt. Rufus almost faints with surprise when he reads the introduction . Loved that one :) :) :) RD> Saggitarians--heh!> Reminds me, I recall your mentioning the Myth RD> of the Tidy Virgo here a while back, and boy, is it ever a myth RD> in Tami's case! She's a slob par excellance! Where does this RD> 'neat and orderly' stuff come from anyway? Beats me... I've never met a neat Virgo yet. Picky, yes, but neat? Nope. RD> Tam acts--even RD> looks--like a Scorpio. I guess I should oughta do a chart RD> for her, I *really* need the practice. :/ Probably got heaps of Scorpio in her chart :) >> the foot of the statue, and there was a little scorpion >> guardian. He was quite happy, and a nice little creature, but >> definitely on guard. RD> Most excellent guardian, I'd say. ;> Who/what was the statue RD> of? Scorpion-goddesses are big favorites of mine too. Most of the statues depict Aboriginals and native animals/plants in a symbiotic relationship. Some of them, the people are quite literally growing from the land, and it's an awesome place. B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Gnb 30 Jul 94 00:00:48 Subject: Salutation of the moon? UpdReq Hello Gnb! 25 Jul 94 02:25, Gnb wrote to JULIA PHILLIPS: JN>> I dunno. If someone could cite a Greek reference to these JN>> angels predating the Zohar, I'd be convinced. G> There are Hebrew references much earlier - though I don't know of G> any Greek ones. Me neither :) Not sure if you saw the start of this thread, but if not, I was pondering why Metatron and Sandalphon have (apparently) Greek names, whilst all the other angels follow the "...ael" Hebrew style of name. If you have any thoughts, do throw them in :) B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 30 Jul 94 00:03:54 Subject: ... UpdReq Hello Christeos! 24 Jul 94 22:50, Christeos Pir wrote to Julia Phillips: CP> Thought you might be interested in this... check out the guest CP> list, and the musical performers: I got a copy in the mail, though gods knows how they thought I'd get there :) Should be an interesting event, from the looks of it. We get nothing like that here in Oz, mores the pity. Thanks for posting it up... I appreciate the thought :) B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 24 Jul 94 20:02:20 Subject: Re: Archives & History UpdReq Na> On it's way (it's only about 100K so far). It's undergoing some Na> major renovation right now though as I'm heavily into expanding TI> I got it in four pieces. Do you think you could send it to TI> tony@prenhall.com instead? That way you won't have to encode it in any TI> way. Sure. I'll try to get it up soon. Hmmm, I'll have to do a unix convert thing on it, hopefully it won't choke. Na> digitized copies of Baphomet Breeze? I have only one and Bro. H. TI> Sure, I have three or four early ones, I think. I'll check. Thanx. Na> told me there is some good Gnostic succession stuff in there (a Na> subject that few seem to want to talk about...I wonder why?) TI> Probably for the same reason Crowley gave for people saying that TI> it's dangerous to talk about Pluto. No evidence yet! ;-) Aha! ... Dodger, Blitzen, Creamer, Runny, Pokey, See? I know em all!! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 24 Jul 94 20:10:44 Subject: RE: Re: Archives & History UpdReq -=> Quoting Navitae to Tony Iannotti <=- Na> found some incredible books using it in the States, including a Na> signed copy of one of Achad's books). TI> That's amazing. Lucky thing it was still in circulation! Na> Man, I miss my library. Na> Had to sell my books when I got laid-off a few years ago. TI> That's too bad. Did you sell them to Weisers? or to individuals? It was kinda weird. I was living in Maine and selling them to a local bookstore, then Glen (from Weisers) was wandering in there and buying them. I finally wandered over to York Beach to sell him my more esoteric stuff and found out he'd been buying up the rest of my books as a lot were out of print. The bookstore owner was cleaning up and not telling either of us. Na> Anyways, I've been reading up on the history of the Catholic Na> Church, specifically in regards to the 1870 declaration of Papal Na> Infallibility which caused the Gnostic revolt in the first place. TI> Right! I keep forgetting how much history is Reactive rather than TI> Proactive. The next day after the Church delaration, France declared war on Germany, pulled the troops out of Italy and the Italian army was free to stomp on the Vatican (and they imprisioned the Pope there, sort of an extended house-arrest). So, were the French reacting to the Pope's delcaration or was it just a really strange coincidence? Na> Really fascinating stuff. BTW, do you know when Achad joined the Na> Catholic Church in his attempt (?) to get them to accept the Law Na> of Thelema? I think it wasn't too long before his did his nude Na> romp around the airport, but I'm not sure. TI> I'll have to look it up, but my recollection is that the walk-about TI> occured right upon de-planing from Rome. Yeah, that's what I read but I don't got no dates. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Andrew Haigh Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 30 Jul 94 11:03:12 Subject: Archives & History UpdReq CP> Well, I've been reading "Holy Blood Holy Grail." Does that count? CP> Actually, it's pretty funny... so full of swiss cheese masquerading as CP> reporting, that it makes von Daaniken seem like the CP> Encylopaedia Britannica! For a better attempt at reconciling the Templars with the Masons pick up `Born in Blood' by J. Robinson. He goes into the history of the Lodge and tries to draw a connection between the Templars and Freemasonry. IMHO he does a far better job at it than HBHG. CP> I _have_ been thinking about joining a Blue Lodge, tho... Lotta money CP> to do both, however, especially when I get up a few degrees in the OTO. Hmm... it really shouldn't cost all that much. Initiation fees around here for the Masons runs to @300$Cdn with yearly dues of 75$. I'm sure that the first few degrees in the OTO are rather affordable as well (I'll have to check, it has been a while since I last looked at that information). I had thought that it was rather expensive to go the Masonic route at one point, but I have since been in contact with a few Masons who have informed me of my error. Now all I need to do is find an extra 300$ :) CP> Love is the law, love under will. 93 93/93 @:|---- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: Keith Schurholz 26 Jul 94 18:09:16 Subject: Re: RE: ARCHIVES & HISTOR UpdReq KS> Tau A has written some good historical material on Doinel and the EGC. Who's Tau A? I'm trying to track some info on Doinel and would appreciate hearing more about any sources you know of. KS> We have some translated material by Bricaud from the Martinists in KS> ICES. Who's "we"? Again, any info on this as well would be appreciated. KS> They also have great material by Jarker on Martinism- he was far KS> more into this than I had thought. Evidently, Papus made him the head KS> of Martinism in England and he presided over a group there... there is KS> some outlines of their ritual material that is pretty good. KS> Also, you should check out the new Reuss material from that slime, KS> P.R.Konig. It includes a ggod Questions and responses piece. Has anyone KS> translated this yet? I am working on it now.. Frustrating message. Lots of intriguing tid-bits, could you expand on this some? (Who was Jarker, what great material are you referring to, what's the Reuss material that Konig (is this Koenig?) came up with?) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718