From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Julia Phillips 22 Jul 94 17:34:02 Subject: Salutation of the moon? UpdReq Thus said Julia Phillips to Josh Norton concerning Salutation of the moon?: JP> Hello Josh! Howdy! JP>> Logical enough :) So where would Sandalphon come in this JP>> scheme? JN> Sandalphon is the angel of planetary Earth, as I understand it. JP> Me too, but I wonder re the comment above.... are you JP> associating Malkuth with Earth, or looking at Earth and JP> Malkuth as two completely separate things. Hmmm. I tend to make a distinction between Earth-as-element, Earth-as- Malkuth and Earth-as-planet. The element and sephira are universals; if, e.g., you were living on Mars or Pluto, you would probably still find these to be more or less the same. The planet Earth, OTOH, is a unique individual among the Heavenly Brethren, with her own distinct character and goals. The association of her with the element and sephira seems to me to be more a function of the limited viewpoints of human beings than with anything intrinsic to her nature. Personally, I tend to see Earth-as-planet being more closely associated with Binah than with Malkuth. Particularly with Binah as the Mother, as the Great Sea, and as the transfinite substance out of which all finite events arise. These aspects are _much_ more suited to planet Earth than they are to Saturn. And Saturn seems to me to have as much in common with Malkuth as with Binah. Switching these two around on the Tree was actually proposed to me by the Enochian angels years ago. I thought their ideas on the matter were rather good, but was never able to figure out a way to institute the change in a workable manner. JP> Well, if we stick with the Greek, "meta" means "change; JP> transcending or going beyond"; and "tron" means "an JP> instrument". So, Metatron could be interpreted as "an JP> instrument to change and transcend". Meta-Tron = transcending Walt Disney sci-fi movies?? JP> "Sandal" is from Greek "Sandalon", meaning, "sandal" (wow!). Heehee. My Hebrew dictionary did the same thing, and I didn't buy it there, either. One of the reasons I speculated on origins in some other language. But I thought the idea that Christeos Pir threw out in re Metatron was as likely as anything else I've seen so far. ... (Void where prohibited by common sense) ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 22 Jul 94 17:47:04 Subject: public pgp key Rec'd UpdReq Thus said Tony Iannotti to All concerning public pgp key: TI> Sorry for the confusion. Here is my public key for those TI> who want or need it. 93! Gotcha, thanks! Now all I need to do is figure out something to say that needs to be kept secret.... Oh BTW, you might want to consider locating a copy of PGP version 2.6. This is a completely LEGAL freeware version distributed by MIT under an agreement with RSA. Aside from the legalities, v. 2.6 contains a "time bomb" so that any encrypted file created with it after 9/1/94 will be un-decryptable by earlier versions. (The idea is to get all those illegal copies off of people's machines and force them to get up to speed with the new version.) After 9/1, version 2.6 will still be able to decrypt earlier versions, so you could send mail out to people with 2.6 but wont be able to read their replies. ... If you can't say something nice, say something surreal. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Gnb 22 Jul 94 18:53:00 Subject: Albuquerque UpdReq GG> Sounds like it's a reworking (translation?) of the Sefer Yetzirah and GG> the 32 paths of wisdom. Westcott translated from a 17th centuy GG> Latin translation from Hebrew, as far as I know. the '32 Paths' GG> In any event, it is as likely that the material shares a common GG> source - and the Golden Dawn is far from the origin. Thanks for intercepting this post and giving your 2 cents worth. GG> * Origin: ELFOnline * Albuquerque, NM (93:9000/8) Hot dang! I used to live in Albuquerque. If you can post the phone# for the Albq. board I'd like to share it with a friend or 2 down there. Specifically 'Helstar'. If you can't place that name, but know Oz, she can. He traces back to Juniper Grove and Children of the Dawn. Should Oz's foundation ever get together that conference on death and dying, I definitely plan to visit NM for that! Merry met, Fir 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Paul Hume Area: Thelema To: Frater H.A.C.A. 23 Jul 94 09:46:40 Subject: Portal Signs Rec'd UpdReq Frater HACA - Don't look at me, I do them both (Rend and Close) for all purposes. Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: Julia Phillips 23 Jul 94 11:03:50 Subject: Re: SALUTATION OF THE MOON? UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Hey Julia! Hmm--I don't think we've mentioned the moon in a while. Should oughta change that subject line, perhaps! ;> > Well it *is* almost Happy Leo Day, you know ;-) Happy birthday to you, you belong in the zoo... . ;> > Sort of.... but I'm more of a one for teaching about principles > rather than traditions, as that way, people can identify what is a > useful technique irrespective of where it comes from. Then, if the > principles are understood, the tradition can be either used, amended > or ditched, depending upon its validity for that person. Do you add new people to your teaching groups, or has it been the same bunch for quite a while? I'm interested in how you approach all this initially, IOW. Kind of like 'Thelemic Philosophy 101' , then 'Beginning Rituals', then 'Advanced Techniques'? When teaching about principles, do you find that your guyz approach ritual on a more instinctive level, than if you sat down and studied/practiced a specific ritual? Also, do you suggest that everyone give the traditions 'a go' first, before deciding that it needs to be amended or trashed? Here's a *very* basic example: before I started Resh'ing, when I looked at Liber Resh, I 'decided' that I wasn't going to do it, that since I was heavily into practicing/layering/widening Suryanamaskar at the time, Resh would be superfluous. It wasn't till I started daily Resh that it dawned on me; although Liber Resh and Suryanamaskar both prescribe 'Salutations of the Sun,' they're 'about' completely different stuff. The practices complemented one another, and both added something 'necessary' for me, but I wouldn't have *really* realized that without the actual practice. >RD> changed so that it no longer seems to, and how it could still be >RD> relevant, is a *bitchin* mental exercise. > > But fun :) Bitchin means fun! I thought that was an old enough expression to translate. };D > Good point... I think music "speaks" directly to the magical soul > (for want of a better word :-}), so it bypasses the "correspondence > circuits", and gets right to the heart of it. I use music a lot in > ritual, and to me, it's one of the most powerful means of changing > consciousness. About two years ago, while immersed in psychotherapeutic journals and other pedantic research for an article I was doing, I stumbled across some research on the effects of musick on the limbic system--I'll be danged if I can remember anything specific though! The basic conclusion seemed to be pretty much what you've stated above, with the stamp of academic approval thereon. ;> Hmm, I'm going to have to rummage around and find that article's folder; since the bulk of the research dealt with altered states of consciousness, there's probably mucho good stuff in there that, at the time, was simply a lot of work. ;> You might be surprised how much of magical relevance is contained in the pages of the _Journal of Dissociative Disorders_, for example, hehehe! > Or, they are stripped of their superficial facades which restricted > them to a particular location/time :) I think at root, all mystical > truths are united; it's just that societies and cultures have > overlaid them with their own local stuff, which obscures them to > people outside that society or culture. The esoteric truth at the heart of the exoteric expression, so to speak? ;> Don't you think that sometimes there's a lot of power in the 'superficial facades' themselves, though? I do! > We do :-} Three of us share a love of classical music, two of us > love heavy rock etc., and another is into pop-type music :( Drums always seem to work. ;> Not long ago a group of us 'locals' were together and there was some dissent about several of the tapes we had there, but EVERYbody liked the drum tape! > Very likely: the person in question had not connected very well with > any of the planetary workings, to the extent that he was almost told > not to bother to come along for them. He made a tremendous effort to > get to the rituals (a really difficult journey, and a few hours > getting home afterwards), but we would have got more out of a wet > sponge standing in circle than we did from him. He's an intelligent > guy, but just couldn't get these together (and they were pretty > basic planetary workings). Aside: what do you think of D&P's _Planetary Magick_? I'm pretty crazy about the book myself, and I think the Rites as described in it would lend themselves very well to group ritual workings. Hmm, I tend to agree with the idea that one gets out whatever one puts in when it comes to ritual, but in this case, it sounds like the guy was putting a lot in, and not getting much out! Too 'ceremonial' for his tastes, do you think? > Go for it.... Wagner's not the only one who can write good, dramatic > ritual music . Speaking of which.... Siegfried's Funeral March is > pretty good for some ritual, if you like that sort of thing. I forgot to request the Requiem last time I was there. :/ You think it'd be appropriate right after spending 12 hours sitting in a field listening to Metallica, Candlebox, Suicidal Tendencies, and whoever it sitting in for Alice in Chains? > Depends on the tradition :) Some are ideal for exploring the > mystery, and not limiting in any way at all. OTOH, some of the > traditions haven't even twigged that there is a mystery, let alone > developed a traditional technique for seeking it out - LOL! Dont'cha just hate when that happens! };> >RD> ie, if I want to understand the >RD> universe, shouldn't I examine each aspect fresh and seek to >RD> understand it without learning someone else's conclusions, to >RD> arrive at a *real* understanding thereof? > > I thought that's what I said :) All apologies. :> > What is interesting is that one of the members of our magical Lodge > in London suddenly started drawing pictures of the angels. They were > "automatic" drawings really, and *very* striking. The sort of thing > that once seen, never forgotten. Anyway, a few months later we were > having dinner with friends in Wales, who are connected magically to > us via Madeline Montalban. Lo and behold, on the wall in the dining > room was a duplicate of one of the angels our member had drawn! Talk > about a shock :) :) :) > > Anyway, it transpired that the drawing was an original, one of a set > commissioned by Madeline of the all the angels used in her system of > magic. The magical current obviously runs very strongly in this > system :) That kind of thing always trips me out! Have you gotten used to it by now? At any rate, whatta 2kewl story. :> > I actually get on really well with Scorpios... always have. My > brother is Scorpio with knobs on, and my boss is Scorpio with extra > Scorpio. His son, who I work with from time to time (he's a graphic > designer) is also Scorpio, so I'm surrounded by them. My Virgo daughter *only* likes her Scorpio relatives--weird, huh? Reminds me, I recall your mentioning the Myth of the Tidy Virgo here a while back, and boy, is it ever a myth in Tami's case! She's a slob par excellance! Where does this 'neat and orderly' stuff come from anyway? Tam acts--even looks--like a Scorpio. I guess I should oughta do a chart for her, I *really* need the practice. :/ > Hey, you might be interested in this.... when I was visiting a > sacred sanctuary dedicated to Aborigines in the Dandenong Ranges in > Victoria over Christmas, I went in to one of the shrines, and had a > real image of a scorpion. I looked down at the foot of the statue, > and there was a little scorpion guardian. He was quite happy, and a > nice little creature, but definitely on guard. Most excellent guardian, I'd say. ;> Who/what was the statue of? Scorpion-goddesses are big favorites of mine too. > BTW, Web of Wyrd is actually finished, though I only have 40 copies > printed so far. Hopefully this week will see the rest printed, so > you should get yours before too long. The Sexism thread has come out > really well (I think, anyway :) I'm looking forward to it! :> Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 19 Jul 94 15:44:36 Subject: RE: Re: Archives & History Rec'd UpdReq Na> I've a question along other lines than the HBL stuff. Is there Na> any evidence that Jean Bricaud consecrated Papus as a Gnostic Na> Bishop in 1913 (or any other time)? My info indicates that this Na> is disputed and I'm working on several Gnostic lineages (the Na> Vilatte successions hinge on this). TI> I know of none, only of the dispute. I think I read about it in an TI> article entitled Wandering Bishops, but I am afraid it might have TI> been in that Man, Myth & Magic series. Not very scholarly. If not TI> there, then in Gnosis. Thanks anyway. I've run the Wandering Bishops and Bishops at Large books through interlibrary loan. I don't know how well the system works in Canada, but hopefully I'll have some luck (I found some incredible books using it in the States, including a signed copy of one of Achad's books). Man, I miss my library. Had to sell my books when I got laid-off a few years ago. Anyways, I've been reading up on the history of the Catholic Church, specifically in regards to the 1870 declaration of Papal Infallibility which caused the Gnostic revolt in the first place. Really fascinating stuff. BTW, do you know when Achad joined the Catholic Church in his attempt (?) to get them to accept the Law of Thelema? I think it wasn't too long before his did his nude romp around the airport, but I'm not sure. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: Julia Phillips 19 Jul 94 16:10:34 Subject: Re: Salutation of the moon? UpdReq JP> Are there *any* Greek references to angels? I thought the concept of JP> Angels was mainly Semitic, although beings with wings are (of course) JP> really widespread. I thought it was mainly a Persian influence along the lines of the supernatural armies of Ahriman and Ormazd. They certainly had a big influence on the early Jewish religions (re the Dead Sea Scrolls). Might be interesting to look into the roots of the Book of Enoch. Of course, the Jewish mainstream denounced Qabalism on the grounds that it's of Gnostic derivation (back in 1400's I think). ... Jesus Saves Souls...and redeems them for valuable coupons! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Frater H.A.C.A. Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 24 Jul 94 12:49:20 Subject: Portal Signs Sent UpdReq Hi Paul, 93] PH> Frater HACA - PH> Don't look at me, I do them both (Rend and Close) for all purposes. PH> Paul Originally I thought about doing that also but Duquette's "magick of Thelema" (pages 74 and 75) made me think otherwise. Some of my Thelemic GD material says to do rending for invoking spirit and closing for banishing spirit. This seems to make the most sense to me symbolically. Anyway thanks for the input! Frater H.A.C.A. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718