From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Gnb 22 Jul 94 19:15:14 Subject: Re: ARCHIVES & HISTORY UpdReq > Fi>Excuse if this sounds like a silly question. I've a book of > >*>hers titled _Numbers & Letters or the Thirty-Two Paths of Wisdom_ > >*>and a GD trained friend of mine says the material is very similar > > GNB>Yeah, nearly everyone these days borrows pretty heavily from the > *>GD. Perhaps I should put it into time context. The book is copyrighted 1908 and the author was born in 1838. Bueno Bye . Fir 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Navitae 23 Jul 94 01:11:16 Subject: Re: ARCHIVES & HISTORY UpdReq >Fi> I'm interested in whether Maria de Naglowska's (one of Randolph's > I'm not sure about the status of those books. I remember reading Did you write a tantrik banishing ritual that was published in Mezlim? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 23 Jul 94 01:18:40 Subject: Re: RE: ARCHIVES & HISTORY UpdReq >Na> I've a question along other lines than the HBL stuff. Is there >Na> any evidense that Jean Bricaud consecrated Papus as a Gnostic >Na> Bishop in 1913 (or any other time)? My info indicates that this >Na> is disputed and I'm working on several Gnostic lineages (the >Na> Vilatte successions hinge on this). > > I know of none, only of the dispute. I think I read about it in an > article entitled Wandering Bishops, but I am afraid it might have been > in that Man, Myth & Magic series. Not very scholarly. If not > there, then in Gnosis Wandering Bishops was an article in Gnosis No. 12, Summer 1989. At a quick glance all I see about Bricaud and Papus is the following: "By the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, at least one major public gnostic church, the Eglise Gnostique Universalle, was moderately active in France, led by such distinguished esotericists as Jules Doinel, Jean Bricaud, and eventually the leader of the revived Martinist Order, known as Papus (Dr. G. Encausse). The revival of a Catholic Gnostic (or Gnostic Catholic) public movement was thus accomplished." 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 16 Jul 94 08:31:34 Subject: Re: Archives & History UpdReq TI> Maybe you should pass it around for comment, then. I know all the TI> Bills would love to see it. ;-) I did pass it around. The only people who commented were Michael B. (gave me some info, as I've noted) and Don Kraig (said he liked it). I don't remember all the people who got copies but certainly B.H. and P.S. did. Oh yeah, I did send a copy to an SOTO "friend" who called me lots of nasty names and forbade me to distribute it (he often did that sort of thing). Na> people in the know who could do a good job of clearing up my Na> errors. I'm reluctant to release it because a: someone will Na> steal it (don't laugh, a bunch of my writings were published a Na> few years back without my knowledge or consent) and b: I don't Na> want to piss off people (ie you and Bill H.) for erroneous and/or Na> inflammatory information. TI> A good reason to let him see it first. If he has objections of TI> substance, all well and good, if not, you know ahead of time. No objections, no comments at all. This was a few years ago though, and I've recently been asking him lots of annoying questions through e-mail. He has his own history thing going in the TLC as well and maybe he wants to do something with that. He's certainly better qualified than me. Na> If you're interested, I can send you a copy (internet e-mail?), Na> I still don't want it distributed though. TI> Fine. I'd be very interested, and will certainly not distribute it TI> without your express consent. I have a couple of internet addresses, TI> at work: tony@prenhall.com, and at home on Baphonet: tony@cjbbs.com. TI> The work address is right on the Internet, but the home address goes TI> thruog a Fido gateway. If it's over a couple hundred K, send it to TI> the work address, otherwise I'll probably have to stitch it back TI> together. ;-) Thanks! On it's way (it's only about 100K so far). It's undergoing some major renovation right now though as I'm heavily into expanding it (especially the Masonic and Gnostic stuff) so it's growing pretty fast and what you get is likely to be far done. I've also got to finish going through the Confessions and liberating any interesting details I find there. Oh yeah, do you have any digitized copies of Baphomet Breeze? I have only one and Bro. H. told me there is some good Gnostic succession stuff in there (a subject that few seem to want to talk about...I wonder why?) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Navitae Area: Thelema To: Gnb 17 Jul 94 16:12:36 Subject: Re: Archives & History UpdReq Na> Yeah, nearly everyone these days borrows pretty heavily from the Na> GD. Gn> Sounds like it's a reworking (translation?) of the Sefer Yetzirah and Gn> the 32 paths of wisdom. Westcott translated from a 17th centuy Latin Gn> translation from Hebrew, as far as I know. the '32 Paths' aren't Gn> actually part of Sefer Yetzirah - but were included in the Latin and Gn> then propagated through the retranslations. Gn> In any event, it is as likely that the material shares a common Gn> source - and the Golden Dawn is far from the origin. I was making a general observation, not meant to apply in this particular case. However, a lot of stuff these days has it's roots in the GD, though the GD has roots in older stuff. In other words; people may not be bothering to go back to the sources and instead they simply stop with the GD (technically, the GD is not the origin, but in a pragmatic sense it plays that role). ... The more it stays the same, the less it changes. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718