From: Paul Hume Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 11 Jan 94 22:37:56 Subject: Re: WHY? UpdReq Rose - Uncle Al is pretty much alone in making muladhara the chakra associated with sexual energy. Dion Fortune suggested (and it may be accurate) a Freudian reason: undeveloped aspects of infantile sexuality, associating doo-doo with his wee-wee (to use technical terms). This leads to some odd sounding directions - as in Liber Reguli, where we are instructed to touch the muladhara chakra when I suspect (and perform the gesture as if) we are supposed to touch the genitals (ie. Svaddisthana). Unless it ties into some identity appurtenant to the XIo secret (g). Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Liliani Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 8 Jan 94 13:28:14 Subject: Re: MAGICK & HEALTH UpdReq RD> now! I should also say that the people local to me have RD> been very encouraging and helpful to me with this RD> schtuff, rather than negative--my worrying was sparked RD> by a single remark from someone who no doubt hasn't met Well, you seem to have been trying to make sure you were doing the right thing, which is not by any means bad. I am glad you have supportive and helpful people around. > times due to my diabetes and other problems. But I HAVE found the very > act of discipline to be a benefit in controlling those same problems. RD> RD> I hope it won't sound condescending to say I'm truly glad to make your RD> acquaintance! Although I had previously known that there are people with RD> physical illnesses and health problems who were RD> successfully progressing, it's been VERY recently that RD> I've actually had a chance to talk to anyone else in Like the women who are in Thelema, there are more aorund than some people think! *8) RD> that situation. I suspected that I might be able to RD> benefit from these sorts of practices--actually, I RD> know I can and do, to varying extents, but was RD> probably feeling a little 'unworthy' at the time. :/ Well, we all do have doubts from time to time, at least most of us do and anybody who doesn't probably should. But doubts should not stop someone. They may make legitimate concerns obvious so they can be dealt with. Before going on to better things. RD> RD> Hmmm...maybe I should add another "Duuuuh" in here. RD> This is true; people age and even the healthiest can RD> expect changes. Yes, choosing not to reach for my full RD> potential--whatever it may be--would be foolish and RD> self-destructive. Thank you for your inspirational RD> words! RD> Too many young people forget they will grow old. It is natural. Mortality is a fact of the physical self. But the spiritual self can deal with it. And togethr the two casn do more about some physical problems, once they are confronted, than most people would ever think. So keep on working. It is worth it. ttyl 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Fir 8 Jan 94 14:43:04 Subject: Re: lbrp UpdReq Thus said Fir to Josh Norton concerning Re: lbrp: JN> the more attention you put on > making money, the less attention (and time) you have left over for > working on initiation and other sorts of magick. Fi> Ain't that the truth! Fi> I recall a post of yours to Mark a while back about 'taking time to Fi> think your weird thoughts' ;-) Indeed. It's hard to push back the boundaries of existence when you have to spend eight hours a day focused on mundane demands. For someone like me, whose natural urge is towards the extremes of being, the contrast sometimes becomes almost unbearable. ... Famous Last Words #19: Honey, these biscuits are tough. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 10 Jan 94 02:00:12 Subject: Star Ruby UpdReq 93 TC, TC> Re: Star Ruby (again). What, pray tell, are the N.O.X. TC> signs? I'm nearly TC> certain I've seen them somewhere, but I can't seem to find where now. you can find a description of the NOX signs in 'Liber Reguli' which is in Gems from the Equinox. TC> N.O.X. signs or no. I do TC> rather agree that it has a more "martial" feel; the TC> "flinging" of pentagrams TC> is certainly more aggressive than merely tracing them. And "roaring" the i agree with you on the 'flinging' bit. you might want to try an LBRP with 'flinging' rather than 'tracing'. i have experimented a bit with this, and it seems to perk up the LBRP a bit. let me know how it goes if you try it out. TC> And perhaps it was just expectations, but it seemed to TC> be a better "banishing" TC> than the LBRP for me; probably because of the for general, 'clear-the-air' banishing, i tend to think that nothing beats the star ruby. i'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the difference in the feel between the SR and LBRP. 93, --kayla 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 10 Jan 94 02:06:18 Subject: Star Ruby UpdReq 93 TC, TC> whole active/passive, Sephiroth/Paths, Serpent/Dove thang, to wit: TC> The SR was definitely more "active", more "magickal", TC> had more "oomph!" to it. TC> The LBRP was more "defensive", "passive", "mystical", etc. hmmm..this seems like a reply to my last post to you, (which you could not have received yet, cuz i just typed it!) wow, you must be psychic! };-> i like your description of how the differences feel to you. interesting way of framing it1 TC> What (if any) visualizations accompany this? And TC> of Things (trying hard not to get ahead of the TC> game...sigh), to try the Golden TC> Dawn system of Telesmatic Image building in this TC> respect. I.e., Regardie gives i have some issues with the GD system of telesmatic image building. though even aside from those issues, that system was based on using hebrew letters. how would you go about applying it to greek words? (i suppose you could transliterate from greek to hebrew.) IMNSHO, i think it's best to allow the images to take on their own forms without trying to impose a form onto them. with time, they do seem to develop their own 'personality' and 'looks'. this also relates to my general issue with using telesmatic images. i think that the visualizations are more powerful and meaningful when allowed to develop on their own. when i was learning the LBRP, the only thing that i used to 'ground' my images in was the flashing colors for the archangels. i think that it's too constrictive to impose a specific image onto them. when you were doing the LBRP previously, what did your archangels look like? TC> The best I've been able to do so far was a "dream" in TC> which a figure appeared, TC> female, with brilliant emerald skin, and copper hair. TC> Despite the fact these TC> are not normally traits I look for in females, :), the figure was quite whaddya mean? your not into green skin and copper hair?!! ;> TC> beautiful. Anyway, point being, I immediately thought, TC> "Green/Netzach/Copper/ TC> Venus/Beauty". sounds like all of this cabala stuff has definitely seeped its way into your subconcious! :) TC> No Greek Goddesses? And I brought my toga and everything. :) :) :) well, there's always a toga party going on somewhere....... 93, --kayla 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 10 Jan 94 02:40:04 Subject: MAGICK & HEALTH I-A UpdReq 93 rose dawn, RD> Hmmm, I'm afraid all this personal self-disclosure stuff might be boring RD> or embarrassing, but I felt the same way about the RD> blabbing about my concerns in this area, that I've RD> come into contact with people who have disabilities and RD> are able to progress in magick and spiritual practices RD> very well in spite of that. I vaguely knew that such RD> people existed, but hadn't really 'met' any of them, RD> so who knows, maybe it'll even be a good thing--there RD> could be someone else in a similar position lurking RD> around. ;> which is one reason why i think it's a good idea that you posted it! RD> certain areas and less so in others, etc. No, my progress has never been RD> completely negated. Physically, when I've been cutting RD> back, it takes a little while to get back to the ease RD> and flexibility I have when I'm working at 100%, but RD> it's just a matter of re-acclimating, not re-learning or anything; and you may find that you have a similar experience with magick, but then again, magick might even be a bit *easier* to get back into than yoga. RD> apply the same techniques successfully, ie, slam full- RD> strength at something for a shorter period, and take a RD> break from it, or find something similar but less RD> complicated to concentrate on until I'm able to go all sounds like a reasonable approach. RD> out again. That's the theory...I'll have to keep you RD> posted on how it translates into practice. ;> please do! RD> some reason, I feel a certain amount of shame about my physical RD> condition. Intellectually, I know that's really RD> stupid, but there it is. I have a feeling that this RD> might be much more of a problem than the inherent feelings have their own inner logic that often doesn't follow the same logic that our reason does. it is weird coming up against differences of 'opionion' (?) between how we think we *should* be feeling and how we are actually feeling. when i notice it happening in myself, i usually feel like i'm being a baby. :\ but, somehow when someone told me that 'feelings have their own logic', it made me feel a bit less like i was being childish or stupid. somehow, it seemed like acknowledging that the feelings were okay, even though my intellect thought that i shouldn't be feeling them, seemed to help me a bit with this sort of thing. RD> self-centeredness now, as it's very true that each individual has his/her RD> own areas of strength and weakness, and being human, RD> we're all subject to periods where we're working at RD> much less than 100%, but I hadn't thought of it in i don't think it's self-centeredness, really. maybe just a question of looking at it from different angles. it's always easier to see things from an 'outside' perspective. RD> when working alone as accurately as possible, then RD> maybe try something simple with one other person who RD> knows what's going on with me, and see if those steps RD> both work out OK, then possibly move on to a larger sounds like a good idea. let me know how it goes. 93, --kayla 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 10 Jan 94 02:55:26 Subject: MAGICK & HEALTH II UpdReq 93 rose dawn, RD> health, it's easier to deal with everyday stresses and complications, RD> which may be no *less* severe than the complications I RD> run into when my health takes a dive, but in the RD> latter case, because there's a *physical* 'reason' why stress tends to be 'cumulative', so people's coping mechanisms do fine with the everyday stresses, with maybe even a bit more heaped on top. but, when you add in more stress on top of that, coping tends to become more difficult. RD> I'm having difficulties, I tend to magnify them, while RD> when there's no 'physical' cause for scatter- RD> brainedness, tiredness, mood swings, etc., I can RD> accept them and either work around, or work through, that's an interesting observation. maybe it's because of the 'meaning' of the tiredness, mood swings, etc.? RD> feeling that I'm associating my own physical RD> 'weaknesses' with weakness of character or spirit, when RD> they're entirely different things. I know that I would not be judgmental RD> or down on someone else in my situation, and wouldn't RD> offer help or encouragement to someone else with RD> resentment, possibly looking at it from that it always amazes me how much harsher people are on themselves, than they are on others. when i was working in a weight loss clinic, i heard alot of people really beating themselves up over their eating habits from the previous week. if i offered them any understanding, or empathy, they would often argue against it. at some point, it struck me that if they were encouraged to examine how they would deal with a friend going through the same sorts of problems, they might 'speak' a bit more kindly to themselves. lo and behold, it usually worked! it was very striking to me, and something that i try to keep in mind in dealing with my own problems and faults. RD> view. I just hate feeling like a wimp, know what I RD> mean? Or a cry-baby. I think cutting loose enough to go RD> ahead and be wimpy and whiney for a little while RD> has been a good experience for me--the world didn't RD> end, and I'm still in the ring. ;> sometimes, the only way out is through. ;> RD> I will! I'm too stubborn and onery to give up. ;> i knew that! };-> 93, --kayla 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julian Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 8 Jan 94 14:23:00 Subject: Re: Contest Entry ;> UpdReq RD->Hiya Julian! Howdy Rose. :) RD-> > Well, since I'm new to the echo and shoveling through an immense QWK RD-> > packet (should be called a SLW packet), the polite thing to do would RD-> > seem to be to describe myself (since everyone else has). 5'9", 30, RD->Hmmm, no, no, no, you're not supposed to do that! ;> The contest rules RD->specifically stated that we were supposed to describe other post'ers that w RD->don't know, based on the impression received from reading their posts. RD->Sheesh, you went and gave the game away before we had a chance to play. And RD->wouldn't you know it, even though we haven't traded that many posts, once RD->again, the (blurry) mental flic I had doesn't match up! (sound of much inventive self-directed profanity) Sorry about that...I blew the game and I don't get to play. I feel pretty idiotic. Oh, well, that's nothing new. So what was your picture prior to my faux pas? I'm always curious about that sort of thing. -- Julian (Internet: flint@eskimo.com) * OLX 2.1 TD * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Melissa Bech Area: Thelema To: Kayla Block 9 Jan 94 20:07:00 Subject: Chaos UpdReq -=> Quoting Kayla Block to Melissa Bech <=- KB> heehee, i believe that i do know of which 'tall friend' you speak. KB> please give him my regards and tell him that i have been planning on KB> dropping something in the mail to him. if you'd like to pass a KB> message along to him, tell him the LA 'gang' says 'hello'! i am Will do. KB> i keep going to other places instead. looks like it may have been put KB> off again for a trip to new orleans, maybe.) Having lived in both towns, I'd pick Seattle. I'm told they're both Scorpio cities, but in NOLA, the closest thing to a Mountain they have is those little hills they build up to put freeway overpasses on... but, it's very jazzy to visit! ... Catch the Blue Wave! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Melissa Bech Area: Thelema To: Kayla Block 9 Jan 94 20:07:00 Subject: MAGICK & HEALTH UpdReq -=> Quoting Kayla Block to Melissa Bech <=- KB> as far as i know, temporal lobe epilepsy wouldn't be differentiated KB> from right to left, since the temporal lobe is in the middle. i also KB> don't think it would make any difference whether it was congenital or KB> trauma-induced, the symptoms should be similar. Thanks for the book title. I was thinking of your basic left-brain, right-brain kinds of divisions, but word has it that those theories have been altered since I last read about them in 1983 or so! I was hoping for "left" being an indicator of true genius and genuine mysticism, since the left temporal lobe is where my most interesting EEG patterns occur, (but, being a Leo, I am inclined to think of myself as being on the leading edge, anyhow!). ... Catch the Blue Wave! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julian Area: Thelema To: Kayla Block 10 Jan 94 00:39:00 Subject: Hi! UpdReq KB-> J> I bought a book on Thelema, _The Magick of Thelema_ by Lon Milo KB->overall, i think it's a nice introduction to thelemic ritual and philosophy KB->i was a bit disappointed, though, that lon didn't get more into his KB->owninterpretations of the rituals. i'd be curious what you think of some o KB->the ideas expressed in there. let me know. :) I'm really looking forward to reading it and having a few ideas of my own to toss around here (and have examined by those like yourself who are actually doing Thelemic work). I don't know if I'd ever take up CM but one cannot know this until one knows what it's about. It certainly has an inherent appeal to me. KB->talk to you soon! Always a pleasure through whatever medium. Thanks for the perspective on the book! :) -- Julian (Internet: flint@eskimo.com) * OLX 2.1 TD * Ok, drop your carrier! We have your surrounded! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ish ha-Aysh Area: Thelema To: Brother Podex 11 Jan 94 17:34:50 Subject: Cincinatti UpdReq L> Thelemites around here. Contact Star in the Circle L> BBS and you can get hooked into whatever. BP> BP> can someone post that number? 513-251-6508. However, many people in this town don't like it misspelled. It's Cincinnati. Of course, since you are writing to Liliani it is forgiven. Some of her misspelling probably rubbed off on you. The above is especially for her benefit, and I am about to forward the message to her in private mail, just in case she doesn't notice it here :-) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 11 Jan 94 15:35:12 Subject: Re: SCHTUFF UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Hiya Larry! > First: Resh, and asana/pranayama. I'm going to begin Resh next > week. I'm > sticking to my established schedule, and don't wish to jump ahead. > I can wait 5 more days, honest. I can. I can. I can. :) Hmm...the established schedule I heard (saw?) you mention before was vis Kraig's _Modern Magick_. Are you supposed to do a bunch of other things before starting any regular daily practices? I know I'm boring everyone to death with my Resh-rush, but I just love it so. :> It's weird, because that was one of the first things I started doing regularly, and I was winging it for a long time, yet still really caught the feeling. I've learned a lot more since then, and it keeps getting better...now I'm trying to get all four stations in every day, at the spot-on proper time without fail. ;> Are you going to start asana and pranayama around the same time? Suryanamaskar really 'goes with' Resh, possibly why I like it so much. > This also relates to comments Christeos Pir and Kayla have made; I > tend to > agree, even from my limited knowledge, that the "esoteric"/"gnostic" > schools/ > religions are simply different angles of the same papaya; the goal > being the > formulation of the Solar body, etc.; and, as Christeos said, when it > comes > right down to it, all the methods/exterior forms of Unity have an > inner form that is, well, One. (Apologies if this sounds banal.) I don't know why it is, I just CAN'T make your quoted text line up neatly. :/ Sometimes the similarities are pretty obvious, other times there with a little looking, but sometimes I'm afeered I just can't see any at all. ;> But yup, much as it would probably pain mystics and fundies of certain faiths to admit, I think those on the two extreme ends of the spectrum bear more similarity to one another, than to the vast middle ground of the specific religion. I'm scatterbrained--I know, what else is new?--LIFE IS GOOD. Forgive me if I don't make anything resembling sense, I'm too busy doing the chaos dance! Wheee! > basically took > the "degenerate, un-redeemable savages" point of view, I would tend > to think > that he didn't have *all* the stereotypes; rather the opposite, I'd > think. Oh, I didn't mean to imply that he did--otherwise he would never have looked as deeply as he did into esoteric Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim--LOL, *Egyptian*!-- spiritual and occult systems. It's hard to slough off a lifetime's worth of ingrained attitudes, I think AC had a few traditional British Empire ideas that hung around, but I don't think they interfered with his understanding and extrapolating of all that degenerate savage wisdom by any means! Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 11 Jan 94 15:37:46 Subject: Re: AMENABLE UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. >RD@> I'd like to talk more about _pratyabijna_ and K&C of HGA at some point >RD@> with you, if you're amenable. > > Can't resist-- > > Amen, Rose, let's hear it. Uh--I thought I already gave my views on the matter. What do *you* think, Larry? Is pratyabijna identical to the state that lies beyond the achievement of K&C of one's HGA? Similar to? Nothing like? C'mon, be amenable. ;> Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 11 Jan 94 00:17:46 Subject: Re: AEONICS UpdReq 93 rose dawn, RD> right about kundalini yoga too, if I'm following--it's in looking back over my post, i realize that i wasn't all that specific, but that's in part because i didn't want to get into details of it here. but, you probably were following my thought processes on it. ;> RD> ago. One of the most "Thelemic" men I've ever met in RD> my life has absolutely no interest whatsoever in RD> magick, the occult, spirituality of any type, and yet RD> absolutelty typifies Do what thou wilt shall be the i've known quite a few 'non-thelemite' 'thelemites', too. RD> Now I'm starting to wonder about the dogmatic, exoteric b.s. that makes RD> up so many religions--whether it's (a) an accurate RD> assessment of the religion and what's important to the RD> practitioners thereof; (b) gets added on by people who don't grasp the RD> esoteric aspects and misunderstand stuff; or (c) is RD> stuck in there on purpose to give "the many" something RD> to do while "the few and secret" are interpreting the or even d) that religions are meant as (a) but are misinterpreted by us 'weirdos' as having some deeper meaning. ;> RD> mystics, their dogmaticists, and a whole large area in RD> between. Come to think of it, I'd say not only do the RD> 'gnostic' types have a lot in common with one another, RD> the 'fundie' types do as well, unfortunately. even 'fundie thelemites'! };-> 93, --kayla 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 11 Jan 94 00:25:42 Subject: Re: RE:THELEMA UpdReq 93 rose dawn, RD> tickled me! Generally, I really like having 'guidance' from someone who RD> appreciates spontaneity, experimentation, and RD> diversity, rather than concentrating on i-dotting and RD> t-crossing, but there are definitely times when I want it's just that when i'm having serious difficulty structuring myself, i tend to long for someone to structure things for me. fortunately, or unfortunately, (i'm not sure which), i'm not the type of person who is too comfortable with having a 'guru' telling me what sort of curiculuum i should be following. RD> familiarity of flavor to some things I'd practiced RD> previously. But then I've been on a Resh-rush lately, a 'resh-rush'---LOL, that's a good one! i had a few really awesome experiences with resh shortly after i first learned it. had a few full on experiences of really feeling the god-forms in an intense way. that can still happen now and then, but not as often since i don't do resh as regularly as i used to. RD> Hmmm, I'm still a pre-schooler as far as real western C.M. practices go. RD> I think I probably 'unconsciously consciously' RD> incorporate kundalini energy into my practices! i think that once you get some facility with moving energy around, then one can't help but to move it around. (yikes! 'scuse my grammar breakdown! ) RD> new stuff. I've been having some WEIRD experiences RD> around kundalini energy lately myself... anything you would care to talk about? (either here or in the tantra sub). i'd be interested in hearing what sort of experiences you've been having that you would classify as *weird*! RD> I think my setup here is that I can receive netmail RD> but not send it, or something like that, if you wanted RD> to go into detail more privately, or will be looking yes, i probably would feel a bit more comfortable taking it to netmail. though, i'm not too sure how much more i want to say about it quite yet. i will keep you posted though. :) 93, --kayla 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 11 Jan 94 00:37:34 Subject: Re: CONTEST ENTRY ;> UpdReq 93 rose dawn! > okay, i'm standing in a black marble temple space, with a strobe > light flashing. 4 foot flourescent black lights are everywhere, and RD> So ka...?!? LOL. Maybe you should back off on the RD> spontaneous experimental just just a *teeny* bit...? the strobe light and black light parts are actually something that i've experimented with, a bit. haven't quite figured out what sort of ritual use to put black light to, yet, but strobe is really good for inducing altered states via moving around. }:> RD> than ritual jewelry, and my yogini's bun has come RD> loose. There's a fire blazing and I'm 'flinging' Sri RD> Yantras around with wild abandon. If I say anything RD> else, you'll know all my secrets, so I'll stop there. sounds cool! but, how do you fling sri yantras around? (i know what the sri yantra looks like, but wouldn't have imagined flinging it, or any other yantras around. tell me more!) 93, --kayla 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 11 Jan 94 00:45:02 Subject: Re: MAGICK & HEALTH UpdReq 93 rose dawn, RD> stress...it's simple enough, but fairly paradoxical! RD> We B Kool--other than sleeping more than usual, I'm RD> doing pretty damned good. :> that's good to hear! 93, --kayla 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Jeffrey B. O'Shea 11 Jan 94 01:35:08 Subject: Greek Kabalah Rec'd UpdReq 93 jeffrey, JBO> Chaos International magazine once and they had an ad JBO> for "Liber MCCLXIV - The Greek Kabbalah", and the JBO> adress was listed under the OTO. I think it was safe JBO> to assume this was probably Grant's version. It was an JBO> adress in london, but I cant seem to find the magazne. JBO> Have you (OR ANYBODY) heard of this book, and/or its the book that you are referring to is an excellent reference book. it doesn't have anything to do with grant, though. it was compiled by kierin berry in new zealand, using crowley's notes on greek cabala, as well as some of his own researches. unfortunately, i don't know what the policy is for distribution of the book. i will find out for you, though if you don't hear back from me on it, ask me again. (BTW, i doubt that the OTO would be distributing this book, but, i may be wrong. i think kierin has actually given up on trying to control distribution of the book, though.) 93, --kayla 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Kayla Block 11 Jan 94 02:35:00 Subject: Astral tests UpdReq 93- KB> hmm..actually based on your reply, i have no idea whether you KB> missed my point or misinterpreted me, or understood what i was KB> trying to say. IOW, i'm not too sure how your post relates to KB> what i was saying. perhaps if you tell me a bit more.... Think I missed the point- certainly lost the thread by now (hazards of butting in :') I'll shut up and listen. 93/93 ar aakhu-t ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 42 days. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Kayla Block 11 Jan 94 02:38:00 Subject: LBRP and similar rituals... :'> UpdReq 93- KB> AA> In the Ruby, you are invoking all four elements KB> AA> in balanced polarities, using the Thelemic god- KB> AA> polarities of Nuit-Hadit (Earth-Fire, the heaviest and etc. etc KB> hmm...i think that you just give me a few clues for a KB> connection between this ritual and something else, that i've KB> been looking for, but had not found. i can talk to you more KB> about it later if you'd like. Great! I'd love to hear what you come up with. 93 93/93 ,-----. . . / H \ -Ar Aakhu-t | H | horizon@fry.halcyon.com | H | \ ===^=== / `._____,' ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 42 days. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Kayla Block 11 Jan 94 02:55:00 Subject: LBRP and similar rituals... :'> UpdReq 93- KB> you seem to be saying that there is some sexual aspect to the KB> NOX signs. i was wondering if you could elaborate on this. i Sure- this is just my own opinion, and let me give the standard disclaimer on making comments involving the names Nuit & Hadit: these are my interpretations of Crowley's interpretations; NOT intended as discussion of Liber Al itself (etc., etc., whew!) The two polarities in the Star Ruby are Nuit/Hadit and Therion/Babalon, which form a cross across the middle. Nuit & Hadit correspond to the Puella and Puer signs. Boy and girl in this case suggest to me the idea of sexual identity but as yet still latent, like a teenager in heat but still virgin. They embody the gender polarity but are not (yet) in union with each other. In a similar way, Nuit & Hadit suggest an infinite polarity to me. Therion & Babalon correspond to man/woman, who are polar counterparts, but in union with each other. When giving the NOX signs, it occurred to me one time that I was, as the magician giving the signs, embodying those latent and manifest sexual archetypes. Thus when giving the Puella sign I am playing the part of the young girl feeling sexual longing for the divine, Pan, but still virgin. When giving the Puer sign I am playing the part of the boy singing his sexual longing for the divine, Pan, but still vitgin. (Pan can be all things to all- each NOX sign approaches the divine in the manner appropriate to them.) (BTW- my favorite archetypal Puer is Billy Idol, obnoxious and all, who would have really embodied it if he'd gotten himself killed in that bike crash- as it is, he's gotta either grow up or remain a childish adult) But I digress. The same with Vir, only now the Man is in union with the divine (now formulated as his female lover). The butting motion makes me think of the magician's body acting the part of a giant phallus, reaching orgasm at the climax of that sign. Again the same for Mulier- the outspread arms describe a giant yoni- and now, since in the East as Vir you've 'given forth' into the divine, by balance now in the west you receive the divine seed by taking the form of Mulier. And Aha! That divine seed takes hold of life with both hands, and now you are Isis rejoicing, suckling the divine child. Finally as you begin to evoke the guardians of the quareters, you take the form of that child. So Puella/Puer set up the sexual tension, but like horny teenagers not yet satisified, it remains a latent tension, which is then mconsummated in Vir & Mulier. The divine seed taken in by Mulier becomes the divine child. That's just an idea I had on the spur of the moment one day while doing the Ruby in the backyard after a nice barbeque. It really gives a powerful oomph to the ritual, visualizing the sexual energies like that. It has worked for me for-- mmm, 4 or 5 years now, very well, no complaints. /\ . . \./ \,/ AR AAKHU-T X >< X /'\ /`\ horizon@fry.halcyon.com \/ ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 42 days. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 11 Jan 94 03:04:00 Subject: LBRP UpdReq 93- CP> One of the things I have experimented with in practicing this CP> stuff, CP> was the difference between banishing earth, banishing all four CP> elements and invoking all four. For a while I was doing one etc Interesting! I'm glad to hear your findings in deliberately comparing the various forms. CP> BTW, as for the money, I thought it likely that of the various CP> influential factors, and your hypothesis might in fact be CP> pointing one CP> out, the strongest is that most people who are "into" CP> magick/occult/CM/ CP> spiritual development/etc. are more interested in that than CP> they are in CP> owning a Mercedes and a split-level rambler in the 'burbs (he CP> typed CP> from the basement of his suburban townhouse ). IOW, their CP> personalities are such that their interests usually lie in CP> other areas CP> than in being a big wheel in the corporate juggernaut; most of CP> us are CP> content to simply be cogs in order to pursue what's to us more CP> important. Agreed, and the fact that most ways of acheiving these things involve more slavery than most of us are willing to accept. I suspect this is more common than real disinterest- most would enjoy the toys, though ZI suppose being fixated on them helps some people get them. CP> Actually, upon reflection I think you'll find that the older CP> (as in 30 CP> and up) magicians you know are probably fairly comfortable, CP> falling in CP> the median for their age-group; the younger ones (18-30) have CP> less CP> money because they're in school or just out of it, and less CP> concerned CP> with it -- they too will most likely fall in the mean for CP> their CP> age-group, taking into consideration the personality-type CP> thing I CP> mentioned. (Sorry if I misuse those statistical terms... not True enough. I'd hope it would fall into those fairly normal (in the healthy sense) averages. There's no reason it shouldn't. Perhaps I'm projecting my personal concerns on others :'> /\ . . .___/__\___. Ar Aakhu-t `./ \,' / ,><. \ horizon@fry.halcyon.com /' `\ ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 42 days. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Melissa Bech 11 Jan 94 03:10:00 Subject: Howdy UpdReq 93- MB> Yup. It was me. I'll call again, but, I also found the MB> location MB> of the Gnostic Mass advertised in the Yule edition of MB> Magickal Times, Got your msg- I'll give you a call. BTW- the Mass changes location each month, usually- the next Mass won't be at the Masonic temple, but in Capitol Hill. I'll give you the address when we talk, or call (206) 233-8853 for the info. Boy, I hope a bunch of people don't show up at the Masonic Temple looking for the Mass this month! MB> which I just picked up yesterday. Your article was swell, MB> by the MB> way. I'm adding the James Wasserman material to the reading MB> list! Thanks! I really think his book on the Magical Diary is an excellent guide. I especially appreciate his attitude, not of the 'expert authority' (read:self-important), but rather as someone who's had the experience and is sharing it. It's very straight and honest and open. The book on Occult Art is just beautiful. It's not often that such a book is edited by someone with real spiritual experience. 93 93/93 ,-----. . . / H \ -Ar Aakhu-t | H | horizon@fry.halcyon.com | H | \ ===^=== / `._____,' ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 42 days. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Kayla Block 11 Jan 94 03:19:00 Subject: I forget whatt he subject was... UpdReq 93- KB> yes, i know that my attitudes about how to do things has KB> definitely developed from my initiators attitudes, etc. Upon realizing this, it has also motivated me to get my shit together and act right! Having such an effect on someone makes me want to do the best for them that I possibly can. Rather than being a source of superiority or elitism, I find it frankly humbling (in the good sense of the word), especially in initiation itself. KB> i'm sure that comes out of the way that you have framed the KB> process. if you were looking at it as an 'adverserial' sort of KB> thing, then they would end up feeling grilled, etc. I think soem people associate 'authority' with sternness, so when they assume that role, that's the way they do it. I find that it actually interferes to do it that way, though. Authority does not imply intimidation (rather, intimidation tends to suggest weakness). As we are so often shown by the efforts of our elder brothers and sisters, Authority really is service. KB> this is what i was trying to say, about the way that you frame KB> the process, and people's feelings about that process. Yeah! KB> i would like to see that. perhaps you could mail me a copy? i KB> think from this discussion, i'm getting some ideas about KB> something that i might write up about the entire sponsorship KB> process. A brother came up with an excellent catch phrase: "Judge not, save to choose your own." I like that. KB> okay, day time is probably easier for me too. Let's talk! /\ . . \./ \,/ AR AAKHU-T X >< X /'\ /`\ horizon@fry.halcyon.com \/ ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 42 days. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Richard W. Handel 11 Jan 94 03:24:00 Subject: Help in NY UpdReq 93- RW> Hey, I can help you with that! I live on Long Island. The RW> closest BBS I know of is the BaphoNet-in-Jersey BBS at RW> 201-434-3694. It's not a local call for long island, but it RW> isn't too bad. Thanks! 93 93/93 ,-----. . . / H \ -Ar Aakhu-t | H | horizon@fry.halcyon.com | H | \ ===^=== / `._____,' ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 42 days. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Jeffrey B. O'Shea 11 Jan 94 03:29:00 Subject: Greek Kabalah Rec'd UpdReq 93- JB> DOES ANYONE OUTTHERE KNOW OF ANY PUBLISHED WORKS ON GREEK JB> KABBALAH AND GEMATRIA? The only thing I've seen is a well-edited version of Liber (whatever it is), a concordance of Greek words by numerical value, which I think is based on Crowley's work, done by Keiren Barry of New Zealand. He's included an excellent essay on the digamma and other wacky greek letters. The copy I saw was velo-bound, probably homemade. Not sure if he ever really published it per se- I wonder if it is online anywhere? I'd love to give him all credit (and royalties) deserved for his work, but I really don't know if he's made it available much. 93/93 -ar aakhu-t ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 42 days. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718