From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Frater Almost 3 Aug 93 00:28:08 Subject: Unicursal Hexagram UpdReq 93 frater almost, i was wondering if you have noticed that the attributions given for the unicursal hexagram differ depending on where you are looking at them. i can't remember where it is, specifically, but i believe that israel regardie gives 2 different attributions in the golden dawn books (llewellyn vs. new falcon editions). wish i could remember where i discovered this at more specifically. 93, ----kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Todd Sahba 2 Aug 93 10:38:02 Subject: Re: multiple truths UpdReq Thus said Todd Sahba to Josh Norton concerning Re: multiple truths: TS> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law JN>(still in rant mode...) JN>Arrrrgggghhh! --- POLITICS! I have sympathy for your straying child; if JN>I was ever stupid enough to join an order, I'd probably end up acting JN>just the way he is. What the hell does making friends and influencing JN>people have to do with initiation? Not a damn thing. What does someone JN>else's social approval of me say about my qualifications for initiation? JN>Again, not a damn thing. It's just a way of reaffirming herd-identity. TS> Like any ritual that involves more than one person organization is TS> needed or it don't happen. This is true of *any* group activity. TS> This means finding other people willing to take part, setting dates, TS> etc. Hmm. Having "come of age", magickally speaking, in the ambiance of the hyper-anarchistic bate cabal, I feel that the importance of organization is highly overrated. The cabal's best rituals always happened almost by accident, and they managed to get along quite well without any official organization at all. A lot of what SEEMS superficially to be necessary in organizations turns out, on closer examination, to be a testosterone-induced compulsion to play King of the Mountain; totally unnecessary to accomplish the stated purpose of the group, and often contradictory to the stated goals. We have endless examples from recent history to show that even supposedly self-insightful "high" initiates still succumb to this biologically- based compulsion in their relations to others. Few have consciously attempted to circumvent it, and few still have succeeded. (Perhaps another part of the problem is the nature of magickal practice, which is inherently ego-inflating.) TS> All of those involved in an initiation, not just the initiate, are TS> taking a very serious step when they perform a degree ritual. I for TS> one would never do so without being very comfortable about the proposed TS> initiate. If I don't know them personaly, and with a new person this TS> is often true, the word of a brother or sister I know could be TS> sufficient. In other words a sponser. This all may sound like "making TS> friends and influencing people" to you, but the alternative is to say TS> that I *must* take part in an initiation whether I'm comfortable or TS> not. It sounds to me that you are affirming my contention. That is, you are saying that your _personal_ perception of your "comfort" with the candidate -- whether he exhibits the appropriate behaviors for admission into your particular herd -- is a valid criteria for initiation. This whole attitude is just sublimated Naked Ape behavior -- if a stranger exhibits the learned social cues of the group, he is "one of us" and is welcomed into the pack. If he doesn't, then he's a No-Good Shit and should be cast into the outer darkness with the rest of the Unworthy. ... "God created white elephants. And boredom did indeed cease from that moment on." -- Nietzsche ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Captain Rock 3 Aug 93 12:58:04 Subject: Re: the g.d. UpdReq Thus said Captain Rock to Christeos Pir concerning Re: the g.d.: CR> Is that so? Allow me to quote from Liber LXI, The History Lection: CR> 14. He discovered that S.R.M.D., though a scholar of some CR> ability and a magician of remarkable powers, had never attained CR> complete initiation: and further had fallen from his original CR> place, he having imprudently attracted to himself forces of evil CR> too great and terrible for him to withstand. CR> The claim of the Order that the true adepts were in charge of CR> it was definitely disproved. Don't you find it odd how every magician who refused to accept Crowley's spiritual superiority ended up being branded a "failed" initiate? ... Jesus Saves .. Moses Invests .. Cthulhu Forecloses. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Frater Almost 3 Aug 93 13:10:06 Subject: Re: multiple truths UpdReq Thus said Frater Almost to Josh Norton concerning Re: multiple truths: FA> 93 Josh. FA> FA> Actually, you fail to understand the situation altogether. Sigh. You are quite correct. I was venting my own anger and frustration with a nearly-universal human trait, not complaining about the OTO as such. Don't know why I bother. Aside from the beneficial cathartic effects, it's proven as futile as scolding a cow for eating grass. The response is always "Isn't that what I'm supposed to do?" Eat your grass, o cows. It's what you're supposed to do. FA> FA> BTW, was PVN ever in O.T.O? (Caliphate which, BTW, is the FA> _only_ *real* O.T.O.) ;) Pax. 93 I believe he mentions being in the Caliphate in his manifesto for the Cthonic-Auranian OTO. Or am I confusing him with someone else? ... A bean supper will be held in the church basement. Music will follow. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718