From: Grendel Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 8 Sep 92 23:08:00 Subject: Traffic UpdReq > BTW, I'll be sending a disk your way in a week or two, with the text of > Achad's books, and maybe a couple of other things, including "The Book > of the Seniors" that you asked for. Would appreciate if you would upload > it to your local board. If you make sure these texts get on a BBS with V32 9600 bps connections (like Mysteria or Baphonet), I'll file request them for my BBS here in Seattle. As an alternative, you could send a copy to my PO Box like you did for your own material, but the first would be cheaper for yourself. I would really like to get this stuff on my BBS one way or another though. I'm the only BBS in the Western half of Washington with a large filebase of this sort of stuff. Wassail, Grendel 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Crat Area: Thelema To: Ian Kesser 10 Sep 92 09:10:02 Subject: Right & Wrong UpdReq IK>Prime: Do whatever you like, as long as you don't hurt anyone else. IK> Sub1: If someone interferes with your actions that followed the IK> Prime, then they are overstepping the bounds, and deserve what IK> happens to them (feel free to slam that mormon off your IK> doorstep, he made the choice to put himself at risk by coming IK> there. I would hold that the above corollary makes sense only if the word "hurt" means "affects someone in a way they choose not to be affected." Since this is not the normal definition of the word, we must disagree. Without addressing the primary hypothosis but instead the corollary, a person has the "right" to take umbrage, and therefore action, against anyone, or anything, which attempts to affect him/her. On a mundane level, you may decide that your will allows you to play loud music late at night near my home. You have not thereby "hurt" me, but have caused me inconvience and annoyance. My will then becomes to remove the source of my irritation, your music, by whatever means necessary, whether that be by appearing on your doorstep or invoking the police, or both. Though the Great Work obviously requires conflict, as a learning experience if nothing else, I do not think the GW should be approached with the Setian mindset that my good is superior to anyone elses and therefore I have the "right" to do as I please. (Though if I become General Motors, I may change my mind.) ___ X OLX 2.1 TD X Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Crat Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 10 Sep 92 09:10:04 Subject: Right & Wrong UpdReq JN>Your "logical" consequence of living in an inherently mysterious JN>universe -- i.e., nihilism -- really only shows the limits of logic, JN>particularly Aristotelian "either/or" logic. It implicitly assumes that JN>existence must follow the limited valuations of the logical process, JN>when in fact each element of existence has indenumerable possible JN>valuations -- even more when elements interact. Whoops. I seem to have made the error of approaching moral behavior intellectually with someone who believes that it cannot (and should not?) be intellectualized. Trying to follow your logic, the determination of what is "moral" must go beyond what can be intellectually "known" and determined. Does this then mean that I can only "know", and therefore act on, what is truely moral through my "will" as opposed to my intellect? For want of a better model, would a kabbalistic interpretation then be that one's true will, and therefore morality, exists above Hod, and possibly Geburah (as the source of Hod)? If so, where would you put "will" on the tree and how could one approach knowing it? ___ X OLX 2.1 TD X It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: L'Amour Dujour Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 9 Sep 92 19:34:00 Subject: Right & wrong 1/ UpdReq ..Gods created the form of Josh Norton ..To L'amour Dujour they cry out "Right & wrong 1/" JN> Yes, but there's people who argue, and people who make bald statements .. .. .. JN> so far really amount to nothing more than "It is so because I say it is JN> so." I saw. But you were having so much fun jumping up and down on it, I just left the matter "in the master's hands.." JN> Spending six years with a goddamn psychopath constantly trying to rope JN> me into his lunatic schemes was NO fun at all. As I said, he had no JN> appreciation of consequences as something that would actually affect JN> him (though he did understand cause and effect) so his ideas could be JN> bloody dangerous. I didn't mean in the sense of joining in. I was thinking that you should just show up at school each day with soda and popcorn... consider the experience a season's pass in subjective reality... with front row seats. JN> Looking back, I'm amazed that I did manage to resist him. To show how JN> persuasive he could be: In later years he once managed to talk his way JN> out of prison, convincing each of the guards at six different JN> lockpoints to unlock their gates and let him through, without ever JN> making anything like a threat. He waltzed out the front gate, stole a JN> car from the parking lot, and was a hundred miles away before anyone hahahahahahaaaa. That's great. What a bunch of idiots. Of course he didn't make a threat, it would have put their senses on alert. He played an inconspicuous figure, and got away with it. You get them thinking about these litte things, and not thinking about what they're (not) doing. I do the same thing from time to time, but not on that kind of scale.... hehehahehehahaa. That's still funny. You really should go talk to the film industry. They could get a good flick out of someone like him .. get Christian Slater to play the part, and I'd go see it. JN> But in a long-term view I guess it was actually a beneficial JN> experience. Made me completely immune to advertising spiels, for one JN> thing, and instantly suspicious of anyone who talks a good line of JN> chatter -- like priests and politicians. Same here, but reverse. I'm naturally paranoid, and being good at making people pay attention to anything BUT what I wanted them to not see helped me stay cued to when people were doing it to me. Well, I set my off-line reader to not let me save a reply if it has more than 50% quoted in it. So I'm adding these two lines to bring it over... (BTW: Could we make that idea mandatory for those people quote the entire message, including the sign-off? I'm sick and tired of seeing the ORIGIN line in the quotation. For that matter, I'm tired of reading every message several times. Once when it's posted, and five or six times when it's quoted in FULL so that someone can make a two line comment. GRRRRR. ) JN> No thanks, I'll just hop over to the Muslim Paradise instead. Love JN> those houris! ... Thank You for calling Paradise. Dial 1 for Zeus, 2 for Thor, 3 for .. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: L'Amour Dujour Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 9 Sep 92 19:37:02 Subject: Right & wrong 2/ UpdReq ..Gods created the form of Josh Norton ..To L'amour Dujour they cry out "Right & wrong 2/" LD>Ah, yes, a great book. Wow, Josh, you're losing credibility. You're >beginning to name books that I've read! JN> And this makes me LESS credible??? (Faints strains of "The World JN> Turned Upside Down" come over the Muzak.) Well, up until lately, you've always been throwing ideas, comments, and suggestions way over my head. Lately, not only can I understand most of your replies, but I've read the books. ..... ....You're just not a mystery figure anymore. JN> Heh. I'm a compulsive reader -- about 150 books per year. Beats BLEH. I LOVE to read. Used to read 2 or 3 books in a sitting, but lately I'm so tired I just sleep when I have the time. "Oh how I long for the days when...." ... Love is the Law, Love of the Taglines by Will. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Karl Lembke 9 Sep 92 09:09:02 Subject: Traffic UpdReq -=> Karl Lembke sent a message to Vitriol on 09-07-92 09:07 <=- -=> Re: Traffic <=- KL> Well, I mean a process that takes the raw soul and polishes KL> it, preparatory to returning to the source. ??? Sounds like digging a hole and cleaning the dirt before putting it back in the ground. KL> Why, I don't know. I guess I'll find out when I get there. There's nowhere to go; it's all Here! ... Drive your cart & your plow over the bones of the dead. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Thelema To: Sean Mccullough 11 Sep 92 09:11:42 Subject: Crowley'S Age UpdReq quoting SEAN MCCULLOUGH To: VITRIOL ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ SM}> Some more thinking about the P_News situation.....P_News is a FIDOnet SM}>Backbone Echo Conference, formed so as to be an "affinity group" for SM}>Leftist individuals and ideas. twould be interesting but if it were any other net but fite-net SM}>Needless to say, this doesn't go over very well with the Communists and the SM}>Socialists on that Echo (P_News) either; they keep quoting obsolete SM}>European "anarchistic" sophists to "prove" that some form of authority is a SM}>necessity. maybe i ought to find a bbs with it this could be fun SM}>the theory and virtues of Absolute Anarchistic FREEDOM in that Conference. SM}>As far as I know, I'm the only one who has yet attempted to relate SM}>Anarchism to Thelema there. Even Crowley himself had troubles with the SM}>total radicalism presented by the irremovable fact that "the Law is for SM}>All"; to which AIWASS was heard to answer: "I see thee hate the hand & the SM}>pen, but I am stronger". i just assumed that anybody who fully adopted the law of thelema would automatically advocate anarchism as the only moral, ethical form of government. is that assumption that much out of klink? Xeper Jonathon * SLMR 2.1a * Deadlines amuse me. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tau Ursa Area: Thelema To: All 11 Sep 92 19:07:18 Subject: POINTS OF LIGHT Sent UpdReq * Original Area: LOCAL * Original To : All (1:278/666) The latest issue of our monthly newsletter "POINTS OF LIGHT" is safely tucked in the Baphonet File Area #44 under the file name...PT507.DOC. READ IT.....(divine command). or be turned into a tootsie roll. 93 TAU URSA ...TEMPLE OF THE ETERNAL LIGHT 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718