From: Paul Hume Area: Thelema To: Merle Corey 12 Aug 92 08:38:24 Subject: Re: Crowley's Age UpdReq Merle - If you just remember that his birthday is 12 Oct. 1875, you don't have to extrapolate, just do addition (g). Paul 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 12 Aug 92 08:12:02 Subject: Re: Frater Achad UpdReq 93, Josh! JN| As I write this (Sunday 8/09) I've only got about 20 pages left to do on JN| _Revival_. (The BBS has been down for the last day and a half, so I . . . . . . . . . JN| Compared to _Anatomy_, its really a jumble. But interesting, JN| nonetheless. I found _QBL_ & _Anatomy_ in a new (relatively) inexpensive paperback edition; they ought to be here in a few weeks. I've so far been unable to find _Revival_, so am much looking forward to seeing your electronic copy; mostly, I'll admit, to check out those Grant ripoffs you mentioned! 93 93/93 ___ X JABBER v1.2 X There is no law beyond. Do what thou wilt. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Merle Corey 12 Aug 92 08:12:14 Subject: Re: Crowley's Age UpdReq -=> Merle Corey sent a message to Josh Norton on 08-11-92 19:46 <=- -=> Crowley's Age <=- MC> Thought I'd let you know. In 1904, AC should be about All you had to do was ask... Born Oct 12, 1875 (Crowleymas Day ). * BWave/QWK v0.96 * There is no law beyond "Do it, then wilt." 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Ian Kesser 12 Aug 92 08:12:16 Subject: Re: Latin Translation UpdReq -=> Ian Kesser sent a message to Vitriol on 08-09-92 02:33 <=- -=> Latin Translation <=- IK> Welpers, KLK is Dog... (Pronounced Kelek)... ShBO is Seven (Pronounced Seven dogs? Sounds more like an Aztec name! IK> It's 442, but it doesn't show up in Sephir Sephiroth, so I wonder.. Hmm... I've driven a 442, but it was definately no dog! ;-) Thanks for the try, anyway. Problem is, a lot of times the older stuff has words and inscriptions that the authors themselves copied without double checking, since they often had no idea what it meant. * BWave/QWK v0.96 * RAAS CHRISTEOS PIR FIFALZ MANIN. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Gerald Del Campo 12 Aug 92 08:12:18 Subject: Re: New Falcon Pub. Show UpdReq -=> Gerald Del Campo sent a message to Vitriol on 08-08-92 16:16 <=- -=> Re: New Falcon Pub. Show <=- GDC> For starters, if you need any of these I know where they 93, bro. Thanks, I have all those in one format or another. HEY: I was down to Rosey Cross (the store I mentioned before) yesterday, and they had two copies of the James. If you want one, I suggest either Fed-Ex me a money order or cashier's check, or call them and see if they'll ship you one: Rosey Cross 3061 M St. NW Washington, DC 20007 202/333-7420 * BWave/QWK v0.96 * SAPERE AUDERE VILE TACERE 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 13 Aug 92 08:13:20 Subject: Re: Enochian Temples UpdReq -=> Josh Norton sent a message to Vitriol on 08-09-92 11:15 <=- -=> Enochian Temples <=- JN> One thing that you should understand is that my interpretations of JN> INRI/IRNI are not intended in any way to be consistent with Thelemic Yes, I understood that already. JN> We were interested, rather, in exposing a pattern of thought and JN> behavior that has appeared consistently in human affairs in EVERY JN> "Aeon" for which we have records. The story of Gilgamesh -- the oldest Oh, you're channelling Joseph Campbell! JN> Now, having such deep roots, the formula has a tremendous amount of JN> magickal power. And that power is not going to be diminished because JN> of a change in "Aeons". It will simply change its superficial JN> expression to adapt to local conditions, and then change local JN> conditions to conform to itself. My understanding of the theories on the accretion (if you will) of human brains and consciousness, is that the previous layer is not erased, but built upon; I also understand this is Achad's view on Aeons? In which case, certainly the older, reptilian stuff (which IMO a lot of so-called darkside stuff is working on) is going to still be working, and probably working better than the newer layers, having been there longer. It's just a question of getting those higher layers out of the way. JN> Each Aeon is more compatible with one letter of the formula than ..Interesting. Makes sense. JN> As for the attributes of the Gods used in the formula, in every case I JN> tried to use the attributes as they were presented in the earliest JN> records I could find documented. Horus and Set in those records have a JN> much more "earthy" and animal nature than they do in later times. In JN> fact, reading those myths I was struck by the similarities in behavior JN> between the gods, and the basic primate behaviors described by Robert JN> Ardry (?) in his books "The Naked Ape", etc., again connecting with JN> the socio-sexual roots of IRNI. (BTW, I don't agree with everything Robert Ardrey wrote, either!) ;-) To my mind, we must take into account the minds and worldview of the transcribers of such stories. If, as I've seen asserted most everywhere, inspired writings are channelled throught the minds of those who receive it, and therefor some of their personality will color that message, then surely the messages of 5,000 - 10,000 years ago will reflect the p.o.v of the people of that time. In which case, the Aeon, or level of develpment of the race at a given time, will indeed have an effect on their formulae, and their myths. To say that today's Eris is quite dissimilar to the Eris of Classical Greece does not invalidate the present view of Her. Heisenberg strikes again! JN> Osiris is a relative latecomer to [...] JN> The aspects of Horus used in Thelema seem to be from a later ..I was in the middle of a lengthy reply to this part of your message when I was called away to dinner last night. On re-reading it this morning, I saw that it was full of then-again-on-the-other- hands, usually a pretty good indication that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. So, I'm printing off your message, and putting it in my copy of Enochian Temples. If, at some later time, an intelligent reply demands that I write it, I'l send it to you. JN> I thought I had made it clear somewhere in the papers that the JN> Gods/Goddesses I was using were the early Egyptian quadruplicity who JN> were the Children of Seb and Nut, and not their later elaborations. JN> But perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Weeeell... to be frank... JN> As for understanding the formula, the best way to go about it is to JN> consider the Fixed astrological signs [...] I got that, too. But why the fixation with the fixed signs. Why not the Cardinals -- because of the present age being associated with a fixed sign? Re: works in progress: I'd be glad to pass them on when you're done with them. I've seen a number of positive responses to Temples, et al. JN> I hate to sound nit-picking without an ulterior motive, but the JN> astrological character of Uranus is NOT "force and fire". Rather, it JN> is "energy and vibration", usually in a context of information JN> transmittal. Excuse me, different associations for the phrase. I was thinking of the "force and fire" of electricity, but didn't say so. Mea culpa. (And as a lineman for a power company, I can attest to both! ) * BWave/QWK v0.96 * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 13 Aug 92 08:13:22 Subject: Re: The subject is Bear UpdReq -=> Josh Norton sent a message to L'amour Dujour on 08-10-92 17:59 <=- -=> The subject is Bear Brai <=- JN> *Evil chuckle* The trick to sounding learned is to use the Magickal JN> Virtue of Silence, and never, ever, get stuck in a conversation on a JN> subject of which you are totally ignorant. That way people only see JN> your erudite side, and never notice what an asshole you are the rest of JN> the time! Oh, great! NOW you tell me! JN> The person either gets JN> stuck in endless repetition of old stuff (like some professors and JN> professional magick "teachers" I've met) or has to give up and go on to JN> something else, despite knowing that the area hasn't been mined out. Or has to make the lines of communication open for new messages from Them. (No, not those giant ants.) * BWave/QWK v0.96 * ABRAHADABRA 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Paul Hume Area: Thelema To: Grendel 13 Aug 92 13:51:42 Subject: Re: Seattle Oto UpdReq Grendel - My understanding is that the latter phenomenon (revocation of charters) was the direct outcome of the first (people fucking with fees). No question, it is never any fun when a group has to clean house. How pleasant for the rest of Neopaganism that only the OTO ever has to go through such things. Not. Paul 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ian Kesser Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 13 Aug 92 06:52:00 Subject: Enochian Temples UpdReq Quoth Josh Norton: JN> I can't see a strong connection between Horus as presented in JN> Thelemic works and Uranus as I know him. Maybe, as with the Horus of Thelema and the Horus of IRNI, Uranus-as-influence (planet) is somewhat different from Uranus-as-Deity. Remember, the Movements of Uranus and the name for the planet came not from the Astrological community, as did all planets up until Saturn, but from the Astronomical community. They were more concerned with mainting the greco-roman flavour of the Planetary names than with matching the appropriate Deity to the at-that-point sketchily known Astrological influences. Just a thought, Ian MMST 2.09 UnRegistered - Your Will? Just do it! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ian Kesser Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 13 Aug 92 06:57:00 Subject: The Subject Is Bear Brai UpdReq Quoth Josh Norton: JN> else, despite knowing that the area hasn't been mined out. To go JN> any further, one needs to have other persons whose ideas are close JN> enough to your own to make conversation meaningful, and different JN> enough to make it productive. BINGO! I don't know if it was "as good for him as it was for me", but if not for my continual dialogues with Steve Craig as we were coming into knowledge of the various systems, I'd have a *lot* more problems than I do now. That is, for me, the highlight of these Echos... there are enough people out there with differing viewpoints and knowledge-levels that one can be teaching in one message, learning in the next, and debating (which is both teaching AND learning, if done right) in the one following that. Unfortunately, I know next to nothing on the Achadian system, but once I've had a chance to study what was sent out, I'll get back to you with some initial thoughts. With Love, Ian MMST 2.09 UnRegistered - No, you *can't* steal it! It's MINE! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 14 Aug 92 10:09:20 Subject: Re: Tree of Life Sent UpdReq -=In a missive of 06 Aug 92 08:06:06, Vitriol said to Tony Iannotti=- (regarding Re: Tree of Life) V> Does this mean no one's sent BaphoNet a copy? V> Let me know if you need 'em. Though at ATT's going rates, I think V> I'll send you a disk instead of spending 30 - 40 minutes on LD. That's right, I'm left out in the cold on these files. :-( Disk would be great! BaphoNet BBS Network PO Box 614 Van Brunt, NY 11215 Thanks! ... God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 14 Aug 92 10:10:30 Subject: Re: Liber 231 Sent UpdReq -=In a missive of 07 Aug 92 08:07:04, Vitriol said to Tony Iannotti=- (regarding Re: Liber 231) V> BTW, did you ever get that book list I sent? Yes, I'm sorry to take so long to get around to it. This weekend, and remind me again if I don't. 93! ... Drop your CARRIER...we've got your modem surrounded. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Nachash 14 Aug 92 10:13:32 Subject: Re: Tree of Life Sent UpdReq -=In a missive of 13 Aug 92 02:58:55, Nachash said to Tony Iannotti=- (regarding Re: Tree of Life) TI> And I would be very pleased to get and offer them. Thanks! N> N> Let me know if you have not got them yet and I will attach them next N> mail transfer. 93! No show yet, so yes please? Thanks! Also, we had a disk crash here that set me back to 7/11 a couple of weeks ago, so I lost your message about the new areas. I'd like to see them again? 93! ... Who am I, and what shall be the sign... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Azoth 14 Aug 92 10:14:36 Subject: Re: Frater Achad Rec'd Sent UpdReq -=In a missive of 12 Aug 92 08:12:02, Azoth said to Josh Norton=- (regarding Re: Frater Achad) A> I found _QBL_ & _Anatomy_ in a new (relatively) inexpensive paperback A> edition; they ought to be here in a few weeks. I've so far been unable A> to find _Revival_, so am much looking forward to seeing your electronic Wow! What publisher? That is good news indeed! ... When I want your opinion, I'll read your entrails..... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: Thelema To: Grendel 14 Aug 92 19:18:04 Subject: Wiccans everywhere! Sent UpdReq Aha. Okay. My bad. So you were a Wiccan.... So was I....... I left it for THELEMA. Much more emphasis on the individual than on the circle. Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: Thelema To: Gerald Del Campo 14 Aug 92 19:19:20 Subject: Re: Warrior Attitude Sent UpdReq Exactly. I do have strong feelings for the 93rd year of this aeon and next year as well. I wonder what'll happen. :) Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tau Ursa Area: Thelema To: Frater Almost 14 Aug 92 23:37:52 Subject: Re: Warrior Attitude Sent UpdReq In the 93rd year of this Aeon... I will rise up and conquor my enemas eh! enemies ... No I like enemas better... Get out of the shit you worthy warrior... 93 Tau 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: L'Amour Dujour Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 13 Aug 92 22:48:10 Subject: The subject is Bear Blue UpdReq JN\>As for the writings -- I do get feedback, on almost every aspect EXCEPT JN\>Achadian stuff. I figure I get five letters per thousand readers, JN\>which is about 2.5 times better than average. Well, are you Net-Mail accessable? It's a little bit easier of a medium for me, and a bit quicker too. JN\>The problem is, even a genius (which I'm not, by a long shot) can't work JN\>forever in a vacuum. Eventually the mind exhausts the possibilities it JN\>can come up with on its own. The person either gets stuck in JN\>endless repetition of old stuff (like some professors and professional JN\>magick "teachers" I've met) or has to give up and go on to something JN\>else, despite knowing that the area hasn't been mined out. To go any JN\>further, one needs to have other persons whose ideas are close enough JN\>to your own to make conversation meaningful, and different enough to JN\>make it productive. Ye, Gods, don't I know it. That is the entire reason why I am changing 4+ years of solitaire to start working in groups. I will always be solitaire, and do most of my work on my own, but I want to throw some new ideas into the pot, I need some freedom from stagnation. It gets to the point that your ideas are PERFECT, but only because they are only applied to you- and you alone. So they fit into your own subjective understanding perfectly. Allowing no room for growth or breath of understanding. The road to Tiphareth, as I understand it. * OLX 2.2 * 101 Symbols of God on the wall, take one down, pass it.. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Frater Almost 13 Aug 92 08:13:04 Subject: Re: Warrior Attitude UpdReq -=> Frater Almost sent a message to Gerald Del Campo on 08-12-92 02:46 <=- -=> Warrior Attitude <=- FA> I am now studying a mixture of Marshall arts with a few I like the 100 watt head with master volume, pushing a 4x12 bottom with JBL E112s, myself. * BWave/QWK v0.96 * When's this stuff wear off, anyway? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Jonathon Blake 13 Aug 92 08:13:16 Subject: Invitation UpdReq VI}>possibility of us coming to New Orleans sometime in the next year, VI}>and had asked whether any of the Lodge's ceremonies were open to well, i'm in atlanta, and seeing as you'll have to pass through atlanta on your way to nola, you would be welcome at our wednesday magickal rituals -!- which have both enochian & voudoun overtones to them << this is eulis lodge oto i'm talking about >> 93 jonathon Thanks, Jon. We'll certainly keep your invitation in mind, though at this point we're looking at taking the train. But a stopover might be possible. 418! * BWave/QWK v0.96 * RAAS CHRISTEOS PIR FIFALZ MANIN. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718