From: Neuro Sonic Area: Thelema To: All Thelema Public Affairs 3 Aug 92 15:49:48 Subject: Psalm 69 UpdReq Attention all....... Expect even a greater influx of young and curious cyber seekers, and general Chaos between the media brokers. Well maybe not that bad, but let it be known..... ___M I N I S T R Y______ 's new album is called Psalm 69. Written in the ancient greek, of Book of Lies. Unfortunately it doesn't really have anything to say Thelemic, but the local College Radio Stations are revitalizing interest in Crowley once again, due to interviews with the band member Alain Jourgensen, of Chicago. The only reference I recall from the one listening was the end sample "The way to Succeed , and the Way to suck eggs." Perhaps there is more to it. the music is way cool if you like industrial thrash. I recognized the lettering for what it was, myself only after a friend accused it of being from "Crowley's Book Of The Dead", It all fell inot place then, but I'm not sure where they got this book of the dead crap. I suspect it was from a misinformed D.J. Oh Well. Neuro Sonic Love is the Law. Love under Will. The Law is for All. "Connect the Goddamn Dots!" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: L'Amour Dujour 3 Aug 92 08:03:04 Subject: Re: Salt Lake City, etc UpdReq -=> L'amour Dujour sent a message to Grendel on 08-02-92 12:58 <=- -=> Salt Lake City, etc <=- LD> I have no idea as to what they are like now, but I have a few close LD> friends who (quote unquote) "were SEVERELY UN-IMPRESSED" by the camp LD> there. This being about 5 years back, though, so..... Hmm... I recently talked with someone who said the Boston area OTO had the same rep. "Bitchy" and "infighting" are two of the terms that cme up, I believe. Naturally, I told him that the William Blake Camp would be NOTHING like the others! (Hey -- "WBC" -- Where have I heard those initials before?) ;-) * BWave/QWK v0.96 * Sonno Joi! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Karl Lembke Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 3 Aug 92 08:03:42 Subject: The subject is Care Bear UpdReq JN>>I find it difficult to believe that there is a part of the brain labeled JN>>'Language', like there is 'Hand' or 'Foot'. I think that language is a JN>>natural function of the mind's Qualitative and Quantitative abilities, JN>>and easily accessed as such. I just can't see the Language function JN>>being a completely separate tool... JN>It's obviously not entirely separate, since most people "hear" words JN>when they think, and spend an awful lot of time talking to themselves JN>inside their heads. But it IS localized in an identifiable area of the JN>brain, which, if damaged, always results in some loss of language-using JN>ability. JN>If you're really interested in this subject, you might want to look at JN>the huge amount of literature on how babies learn to speak. Among other JN>things, it shows that before they learn to speak, babies make the sounds JN>used in every human language, and many sounds not currently used JN>in any language. They only narrow it down to the sounds of a particular JN>language in response to feedback from their parents. The literature also JN>shows that the human brain has a built-in, "hardwired" procedure for JN>learning language which is extremely sophisticated. I recall seeing a short short in Scientific American about a fellow at Harvard who had come up with a computer model which was able to parse sentences in many different languages. That is, it was able to accept all the different grammatical features different languages had come up with. As I recall, there were about two dozen different switches, each of which could have two or three values, and the settings each switch had determined the grammatical features. I keep meaning to write him and see if he's published details yet. ___ X SLMR 1.0 X Hail to the Sun God! He is the Fun God! Ra! Ra! Ra! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Karl Lembke Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 3 Aug 92 08:03:44 Subject: Adoration UpdReq JN>VI>Tu-a Ra, neb neteru, i-tha em Ra Hoor Khuit! JN> >Nuk bak het'ch, xa-a em hert nek. JN> >Nuk u-a em ennu xabs ammu xu. JN> >Se xu-k xu-a, JN> >Neferi-k ba-a, JN> >Neteri-k ka-a, JN> >Ari-k maa-xeru xabs-a! JN>Nice, but how about a translation? A pharaoh who lived in Khartoum, Hired servents to build a nice room. They fetched lots of stone, And some tools to hone, And built a pyramidal tomb. **Note: I refuse to vouch for the accuracy of this translation!!! <___> --(___)-- < > ___ X SLMR 1.0 X Never sweat petty things or pet sweaty things... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 3 Aug 92 11:30:04 Subject: Re: POLITICAL stupidity UpdReq VI> -=> Josh Norton sent a message to Soo Wiles on 07-26-92 13:08 <=- > -=> Re: POLITICAL stupidity <=- VI>JN> Information on the UK comes largely from re-runs of Benny >Hill and Dr. Who, so it doesn't mean a hell of a lot. VI>Waitaminit, what happened to The Young Ones? That one is almost never seen out here in the Bible Belt. But we do get "Fawlty Towers" and "Are You Being Served?". * SLMR 2.1a * I think we're all bozos on this bus. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Zildar 2 Aug 92 12:15:06 Subject: Tex 2/ UpdReq ZI>Forgive me. I am just learning to use slmr. Is this better? Well, somewhere between this and whole-hog quotes would be best. Note that down at the bottom of your SLMR reply screen a bunch of helpful editing keys are mentioned. Pressing "F1" will get you a list of even more. The ones you need are F7 (mark start of section), F8 (mark end of section) and Alt-G (delete section). That will let you chop out portions of the original message that are irrelevant to your reply. * SLMR 2.1a * Moderation causes "Excess Deficiency" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 2 Aug 92 12:23:08 Subject: Re: Enochian LBRP UpdReq VI>You may have something there: if this Earth is their domain, they >idea of being told to clear a space may seem unnatural to them. >Perhaps Their view of this Earth (Heisenberg strikes again!) is more >Chaotic than previously realized... meaning that they may view it as >being meant to be full of swirlings of undifferentiated energy. Thus, >trying to Banish a space within it (which I see as filtering or >polarizing the energy in the space defined) may seem unnatural. Then >again, maybe I'm talking out my... I get the feeling it is more as if they don't recognize the existence of boundaries as such. "These Calls touch all parts of the World", as they said to Dee. Being already hooked into everything, it must seem sort of stupid -- from their point of view -- to try and detach one portion of the world from the rest of it. And if I recall correctly, Dee thought that banishings were completely unnecessary when dealing with the angels. * SLMR 2.1a * Did you expect to find words of wisdom here? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: L'Amour Dujour 3 Aug 92 12:11:04 Subject: ATTITUDE & Etc. UpdReq LD> NOTE: I am NOT advocating that all Thelemites should act any > certain way. I am advocating the idea that Thelemites should be > aware that their actions determine a lot of the views of people. > Thelema has gotten enough bad press (bad as in Charley Manson). Just curious, but what's Charley got to do with Thelema. He's testified many times that it was the BIBLE that was the source of all his ideas. * SLMR 2.1a * Tagline confiscated by the Drug Enforcement Admin. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: L'Amour Dujour 3 Aug 92 12:19:06 Subject: The subject is Bear Care UpdReq LD>JN\>Personally, I think the language abilities evolved long before we had >JN\>any appreciation of their importance, simply because the ARE so highly >JN\>evolved. I suspect they may even pre-date the appearance of the >JN\>neocortex, since that part of the brain is still generalized and poorly >JN\>used. LD>[VRrrrrrr....] Hold on a minute, let me wipe the tire tracks off my >forehead here.... LD>Now, did someone catch the license plate of that Thelemite? What I meant was that, as parts of the nervous system evolve, they tend to incorporate "hardwired" patterns for learning how to use them. The older (evolutionarily speaking) the part of the brain is, the more such patterns it possesses, and the less conscious effort is needed to learn to use it. In the oldest parts, like the olfactory areas, the functioning becomes almost entirely unconscious. The visual and auditory portions of the brain, as well as the language-use parts, all have such patterns. The neocortex DOESN'T have such built-in training aids, so I speculate that it is younger than the parts that do have them. * SLMR 2.1a * Tagline confiscated by the Drug Enforcement Admin. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 3 Aug 92 12:46:08 Subject: Re: Da Bears UpdReq VI>acheivements, and never their failures -- thereby forestalling my >intentions on mentioning that the captivity of the Hebrews is nowhere >to be found in Egyptian history! Just curious -- how does he explain the lack of documentation of Jesus in Roman records, when the Romans were such obsessive record-keepers? VI>It does occur to me that the question is not whether the Achadian >Tree is more correct than the traditional of Crowley systems, but >only which one works for whom. The "reality", or whatever you choose >to call it, is beyond such schema. Maybe the real "upside down" tree >is the idea that the Abyss is the gap between ourselves and the >"real" world -placing each of us in our own Malkuth! I've never really contended that Achad's version was the "True" Tree, despite HIS contention that it was. My own idea of the relationship between the G.D. Tree and Achad's is that the G.D. version is superior for representing the subjective experience of moving between various levels (i.e., "What would I be experiencing at this point in the planes?") Achad's Tree, on the other hand, is superior for looking at the magickal universe as an "objective" manifestation -- that is, considering the event (including the individual's participation) as something occurring "outside" the observer. A person could use both Trees without running into any unresolvable conflicts. And, as you said, the "real" universe is not containable within any schema. VI>Heh. And they call it snail mail -- so why'd it get here the same day >as this message? Dunno. Though I have noticed that long-distance mail is often as quick as local. I have a theory that out-of-town mail is sorted down to the street level when it first gets to the main distribution center for the sender's area, so it doesn't have to be sorted again before it is delivered. Local mail gets sorted only by zipcode at the sender's PO, and has to be sorted again by street at the receiver's end. * SLMR 2.1a * Jesus saves...Passes to Moses...He shoots... He Scores!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 3 Aug 92 12:50:10 Subject: Enochian Temples & Achad UpdReq VI>Care Frater: VI>In reading through this material I find that the illustrations would >indeed be helpful. If you can send either GIFs or hardcopy, I can >make them available to the those who want copies. I'd better send you a photocopy. My scanner never has worked right, mostly due to lousy software. And the original diagrams were done with a version of AutoCad that won't work on my current machine. Trying to redraw those 3-D drawings with CorelDraw -- my only graphics program at present -- would be a real pain. VI>Thanks again again for the files! My pleasure. * SLMR 2.1a * I left my heart in Chichen Itza. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Jonathon Blake 3 Aug 92 12:59:12 Subject: Tree of Life UpdReq JB> Titles, please > anything freqable? if so from where & what's the magick > word? > 93 > jonathon Too many titles to list -- I don't want to clutter up the net with self-advertising. Though you might still find descriptions of some of them over in the "Nightside" area-- I put them up a couple of weeks ago. Vitriol says he's uploaded them to the DC_MAGICK local board (which I assume is The Cathouse), and copies were also sent to the new Mumbo Jumbo Kathedral board in New Orleans, and another board whose name I don't know in Seattle. Look for them under my mundane name, Benjamin Rowe. Hardcopies are available from the Black Moon Archives. (I'd send you a list as private mail, but our BBS won't send NETmail outside the local area. Sorry!) * SLMR 2.1a * How do I get OFF this planet?? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Nachash 3 Aug 92 13:47:14 Subject: Thelemic Literature UpdReq NA>I know that there is quite a bit of unpublished Achad >material floating around and I would like to track some of >it down. So would I. Have you by chance heard of an Achad work titled "The Alpha and Omega of Initiation"? It's mentioned as a footnote in "The Anatomy of the Body of God", but I've never seen anything else about it. Incidentally, I have been in process of typing his "Egyptian Revival" and "Body of God" into my computer, and will be glad to send you a copy whenever I manage to finish it. Though I think "Body of God" loses something without those wonderful illustrations! NA>I think BlackMoon has a unpublished Maatian >invocation in the archives..... Nope. All they have is his one-page manifesto declaring the Aeon of Maat. * SLMR 2.1a * Five tons of flax! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Azoth 3 Aug 92 13:16:16 Subject: Frater Achad UpdReq AZ>I'll check more closely and let you know, but I think you've hit about >everything I have. The ones I need and don't have are _QBL_ and _Anatomy_, >but I've heard that they're soon to be reprinted in paperback by a small >press, possibly the same one that's reprinting some of Gerald Massey's >hard-to-find work. I've seen reference to, but have never seen, one from >Achad called _The_Eqyptian_Revival_. Sounds interesting... _The_Egyptian_Revival_ is a must-read! Much more important than QBL, from a Thelemic standpoint, and for the stuff on his own version of the Tree of Life. Be sure to note the ideas Kenneth Grant stole for his own works. I have maybe a quarter of it on disk, and am working in odd moments to add to the disk file. The same for _Anatomy_. Will be sending them around when completed. * SLMR 2.1a * Follow a Paranoid 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Anthra Andromda Area: Thelema To: Zildar 3 Aug 92 06:05:00 Subject: Sword UpdReq > Consider instead of the sword, the staff, or rod. This staff Ahhh...but the Lad would'na be properly armed without his sword. The rod and the sword represent different principles. 'Sides I'm sure he already has his symbolic Fire, and he does need Air. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amergin O'kai Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 4 Aug 92 17:02:00 Subject: files Rec'd UpdReq Greetings from Fennas Istarion! Yes I was referring to the Thelemic material. While the stuff is available on other boards, unfortunately none of them are local. The whole Equinox electro-library was on Westwind prior to its self-Alexandrianation. We can do 1.2 and 1.4 meg disks on my fiancees system if need be, and then effect a local media transfer. Alternataively, can the Equinox files be f-req'ed? 93! AOK 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Crat Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 4 Aug 92 08:04:00 Subject: Re: Da Bears UpdReq JN>VI>JN> Frater Achad's version of the Tree of Life is very suggestive of[...] JN><*SIGH*> It would be nice to have someone around who's thought about it JN>enough to argue with. I've been wondering for more than a decade whether JN>I'm the only person in the world who takes his Tree seriously. Despite JN>all the articles I've written, I've never gotten even one piece of JN>feedback on their Achadian aspects. Could you give some references one could look up on the Achadian Tree? How does it compare to the tree used by GD and the Crowlean changes? Is it closer to the early Judaic trees? I've seen the term here before, but never any real information on it. ___ X OLX 2.1 TD X Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Grendel 5 Aug 92 12:32:08 Subject: Enochian Temples & Achad UpdReq GR> The original message here was from Vitriol but I wanted to mention that I >have received your disk and am in the process of putting >the files up on my BBS. I had to reformat them (I hope you >don't mind) as many of the lines were about 85 or more >characters long and most screens are only 80 wide. Sorry about that! I use a Windows word-processor with Adobe Type Manager, and even when I format stuff in a fixed-pitch font like Courier, it's hard to control line length exactly. Next time I'll make the margins wider! GR>I like the Gematria program. It is NEAT!! Thanks. Enjoy, and pass it around. * SLMR 2.1a * Facts? Don't bother me with facts! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Eric 5 Aug 92 21:51:16 Subject: Re: THE SUBJECT IS CARE UpdReq ER> In reading some of these comments I felt that I'd like to make some >for myself. I've often thought of the 'mundane' aspects of human >action . I believe that human beings indeed posses a mental >capacity for language use that is deeply inbred. >.... ER> Now, I'm talking about the basics of language . I'm not saying there > is a section of the human brain devoted saying 'condominium'. Everyone will >admit that say..sexual thoughs..are an inbred and definite >part of a ( normal) man's brain . But to argue this point >with the notion 'aw come on, how can > man have a natural tendency to write love letters and buy >roses' is ridiculous. What we have is the elaborate >results of such abilities . I'm not entirely sure what your point is out of all this, so I can't argue to it. (Though is appears that you are supporting my contention.) But a few comments seem in order. First, the degree to which onomatapoeia is present varies greatly between languages, and is rarely consistent from language to language. For instance, the French "haute" doesn't have the same "squeaky" sound as English "high", though they mean the same thing. And I don't know any American frogs that go "brekekek! koax! koax!", though Greek frogs apparently do so. One cannot argue a built-in preference for specific sounds from something so inconsistent. The varieties of sexual behavior are another subject entirely, and one on which our cultural prejudices have prevented much real research. As Heinlein once said, "EVERYBODY lies about sex." Though it seems to me that maybe human sexual expression, unlike human language abilities, has become LESS specific as the race has evolved. Possibly because the mating process is at least partially a conscious, voluntary endeavor, and we've been selecting partners based on conscious criteria that have little to do with survival necessities. * SLMR 2.1a * Did you expect to find words of wisdom here? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Karl Lembke 5 Aug 92 21:40:18 Subject: The subject is Care Bear UpdReq KL>I recall seeing a short short in Scientific American about a fellow >at Harvard who had come up with a computer model which was able to >parse sentences in many different languages. That is, it was able to >accept all the different grammatical features different languages >had come up with. As I recall, there were about two dozen different >switches, each of which could have two or three values, and the >settings each switch had determined the grammatical features. > I keep meaning to write him and see if he's published details yet. As I recall the article (very poorly, that is) and a PBS TV show on the same subject, his parser was very good with Romance languages and others (like Japanese) with a subject-object-modifier structure, and rather less so on others like some Amerindian languages in which different structures are used. And even within the Romance languages it worked best for "formal" forms, less well for informal or slang usage. The adaptability of human language usage just isn't present. Being able to separate a language into its structural components is a long, long way from actually using the language. As even Marvin Minsky admits, one can program a computer to produce billions of grammatically-correct sentences without ever producing one that actually has meaning. Despite Marvin's starry-eyed ravings, I don't think we'll see a computer that can really use language for a long time yet. * SLMR 2.1a * Facts? Don't bother me with facts! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Karl Lembke 5 Aug 92 21:53:20 Subject: Adoration UpdReq KL>A pharaoh who lived in Khartoum, >Hired servents to build a nice room. >They fetched lots of stone, >And some tools to hone, >And built a pyramidal tomb. Maybe we should start a Thelemic limerick contest. Anybody game? * SLMR 2.1a * I think we're all bozos on this bus. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nachash Area: Thelema To: Azoth 6 Aug 92 04:11:30 Subject: Re: Frater Achad UpdReq Azoth, 93. Az> Check done; nothing more. Thanks for looking. Az> I'll put out an all points for those! Was _Revival_ reprinted by Az> Weiser too? The original printing was like 1923, and I think maybe that Az> one may be troublesome to find. };-] I am almost positive that it was. Tony would know for sure. Just checked in the bibliography of _Modern Magick_ and it lists a 1969 Weiser edition. Az> brought to my attention a marvelous spell in _Aradia_ for acquiring Az> books at an affordable price; ends like 'Thou shalt buy what thou Az> wilt...' At first trial, and with minor Thelemic alterations, I glommed Az> onto a reasonable 1904 edition of the _Sword_of_Song_! Alright, dude, you gotta send a copy of that one this away! ;) I bet that it is the same spell Tony uses in amassing his collection? N> Hecate... Az> Yes, I'd love to have them! Leave me your address in the private area and I'll get a disk out to you. Is there anything else I have on-line that you want me to throw in? Az> Therion's Vision&Voice (based Az> on prior work by Heidreck, and footnoting restored by Bro. Vitriol, of Az> course) if you have a need. Please do! Thank you for the offer. Az> my post re the iron phurbu? Atlanta Cutlery's got some interesting Az> obsidian daggers, too, from Mexico... I think I missed that message. I need to send Atlanta C. as change of address! Thanks for the info. 93 93/93 NChSh 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Amergin O'kai 6 Aug 92 09:56:38 Subject: Re: files Sent UpdReq -=In a missive of 04 Aug 92 17:02:00, Amergin O'kai said to Tony Iannotti=- (regarding Re: files) AO> Yes I was referring to the Thelemic material. While the stuff AO> is available on other boards, unfortunately none of them are local. AO> The whole Equinox electro-library was on Westwind prior to its AO> self-Alexandrianation. We can do 1.2 and 1.4 meg disks on my fiancees AO> system if need be, and then effect a local media transfer. AO> Alternataively, can the Equinox files be f-req'ed? Either of those disk formats is fine, and yes, almost all files here are freq'able. Freq FILES for a list. 93! ... And Gd said, "I'll buy a vowel." 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nachash Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 6 Aug 92 13:00:14 Subject: Re: Thelemic Literature UpdReq JN> So would I. Have you by chance heard of an Achad work titled "The JN> Alpha and Omega of Initiation"? It's mentioned as a footnote in "The JN> Anatomy of the Body of God", but I've never seen anything else about JN> it. I recall hearing of this work but have no idea of where to find it. Even though it is listed it may have not been actually published. Thanks for mentioning it though, I can add that title to my list! ;) JN> Incidentally, I have been in process of typing his "Egyptian JN> Revival" and "Body of God" into my computer, and will be glad to send JN> you a copy whenever I manage to finish it. Though I think "Body of JN> God" loses something without those wonderful illustrations! Please do! Wow, that is excellent news... My next project after finishing _Crystal Vision_ was going to be _QBL_. How far along are you with the typing? As to the illustrations, maybe we could find someone with both the books and a scanner who would volunteer to assist.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718