From: Steven Craig Area: Thelema To: Kreizenski 16 Jul 92 02:42:26 Subject: Re: Thoughts : Part 1 UpdReq > I think that the SOME of the older conceptions of DIVINITY had a lot > more truth in them than the current ones. Can you elaborate on this? > Unlike a lot of people, I don't define the Gods as super-sentient > beings. I've recieved a LOT of flack for even considering the > opposite. My conception of the Gods lies more in line with the ant > to human thing. A God's consciousness is so far beyond our own, > that as far as we are concerned, they aren't conscious..... I don't see much difference between "super-sentient beings" and your ant-to-human metaphor; both put the gods in the role of entities of an order of power vastly greater than our own. In my eyes, you or I are just as much of "gods" as Aphrodite or Cthulu, or greed or patriotism for that matter. I see a "god" as a symbol for some area of experience; Aphrodite embodies all qualities of romance, sexual attraction, etc., while you are the god of all Joey-esque attributes. Obviously, one has a broader base of appeal, and has therefore had a larger following throughout history. The success of the cult of a "god" lies in how universal its appeal- the most enduring gods are those which represent experiences we all can identify with and seek after. The power of a god, however, lies in the individual. A magickian firmly convinced of the divinity of the soda bottle on my desk could have an experience every bit as potent as one giving worship to GREAT ALLAH LORD MASTER JEHOVAH BIGBOSS THE MIGHTY(c). In fact, I am stronly of the opinion that the most powerful gods are those unique to the individual. A universal godform may be generally recognized by all, but only through the process of self-understanding can a given person penetrate to the heart of what is truly divine to them. 93 93/93, Steve 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: PLS Area: Thelema To: Anthra Andromda 12 Jul 92 01:24:00 Subject: Software testers UpdReq I'm interested, and have considerable experience in beta testing software. Give me a way, outside of this echo, to get in touch with you. ... Waiting for somedough 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Steven Craig 15 Jul 92 12:57:02 Subject: Re: Eight Cabala UpdReq > Despite warnings to the contrary, I wonder if you could >tell me where I could lay my hands on the paper >"Generating the Abyss Experience", or better yet describe >the technique here... I am strongly of the mindset that a >magickian should explore as many states of conciousness as >possible, even if some of them are not espescially >pleasant. The "Abyss" technique is part of a larger system of magick that creates an astral temple out of the Angelic Tablets. You have to build the temple first, and it involves a LOT of work. Several weeks at a minimum, preferably several months. The Abyss stuff only works in the context of a well-built Angelic temple. Useless otherwise. However, if you are willing to go through all the effort, I can give you a list of the papers you will need. They're all available from Black Moon Publishing, whose current address I posted a few days ago in the "Nightside" section of the net. I don't have the identifying numbers for the papers offhand. If you don't feel like buying the hardcopies, they'll probably be available on HaditNet in a couple of months. I'll just paste some stuff in here..... "Enochian Temples" Published as a chapbook by Black Moon Publishing. The chapbook gives instructions for constructing the basic temple, plus an example consecrating ceremony with an explanation of its symbolism, and several "channeled" dictations explaining the symbolism of the temple and its corresponding initiations. This can be a very powerful magickal system, but it is too much work for most people to want to do. "The Lower Temple" Provides instructions for constructing altars for the temple out of the so-called "servient" squares of an Angelic Tablet, plus two "channeled" dictations explaining the symbolism of the corresponding initiations. "Invoking the Cacodemons" "Channeled" instructions on how to make use of the cacodemons (corresponding roughly to elementals) whose names can be derived from the Angelic Tablets. "Generating the "Abyss" Experience with the Temple" How to destroy your mental and physical health in one easy lesson. By all means read this, but please don't try it! Immediately after trying this, I came down with a terrible case of mononucleosis and was unable to do anything for the next two months. "A Ritual for the Consecration of the Temple of the Fire Tablet" This is a fancier version of the example consecration in Enochian Temples. It makes heavy use of Thelemic symbolism, and has a more detailed series of visualizations to go with the words and gestures. Like the original example, this one is a lot of hard work, and I don't know anyone (save myself) who has as yet used it. "The Aeonic Perspective of the Enochian Temples" Mostly ranting, but contains some practical tips on using the Temple in individual work, and some hints on how the Temple provides gates into the interstellar magickal realms. * SLMR 2.1a * How do I get OFF this planet?? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Gerald Del Campo 15 Jul 92 12:09:04 Subject: Re: POLITICAL stupidity UpdReq >As crazy as it might all seem, I have seriously thought about creating >"propositions" and laws which would echo Thelemic >principles. From what I understand it is only a matter of >gathering enough signatures to get it on the ballot. The >only thing stoping me is the fact that most people I know >(yes, even Thelemites) don't even register to vote. This >bothers me because with all the "fighting for freedom" we >hear in Thelemic groups is nothing but a symbolic gesture >to stroke ones ego while drinking beer with some one who is >eqasily impressed by "valor". There is no link. Well, despite all my suggestions, I don't really have much confidence in the elective process myself. After seeing the government from inside for ten years, it became apparent to me that the actions of government have very little relation to either legality or "the will of the people". Most of the real power is held in places where its users are almost totally immune from accountability. Elective procedures won't touch them. * SLMR 2.1a * Tagline confiscated by the Drug Enforcement Admin. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: Thelema To: Steven Craig 16 Jul 92 19:13:32 Subject: Re: Black Rituals UpdReq In a message dated 14 Jul 92 11:55:04, Steven Craig wrote: SC> "The rituals of the old time are black"- I never thought this should SC> be looked at as a specific reference to styles of magick. Rather, I SC> interpret "rituals" in such a context as the behavior-patterns we each SC> have ingrained into us- the daily rut the "robot" within us executes SC> without thinking. Look at each "ritual"- everything you do- and throw SC> out those behaviors which are useless or counterproductive. That which SC> remains, which is useful, should be looked at in a new light, and given SC> new significance. Something I had never thought about before. These discussions would certainly be more effective if we could come to some sort of agreement on the definition of terms. i.e. define "ritual" "evocation" invocation" "elixir"...etc. Perhaps we should use this medium to get people's opinions and ideas as to what these things represent to them? Perhaps we could start "stirring it up" so to speak ;) SC> In regards to developing a system of magick entirely divorced from SC> GD/OTO/Masonic influences, the biggest problem that I see is that the SC> average magickian has invested a good deal of time in learning to SC> intuitively grok the symbol-set of those traditions, and it might be SC> more trouble than it would be worth to throw it out and start anew. I'm afraid you have me there. I have toyed with the idea, and actually wrote some stuff; and no matter how hard I try I end up resorting to the same 'ol symbol structure. I guess the symbols are a part of the race consciousness and therefor unescapable unless we start the whole evolutionary process from scratch. But on the other hand; shouldn't the whole concept of ceremonial magick be capable of evolving from the current symbol set? SC> Of course, it _is_ worthwhile to scrutinize every element of the rituals SC> you do, trying to figure out why it is there. Self-analysis, of course. But what of rituals which are not created by yourself, such as initiation rituals? By trying to figure out why certain things are there, wouldn't one be more likely to discover something about the personality or mind of the ritual's creator than something about themselves? SC> On the other hand, it also is a neat excercise to keep the basic SC> vocabulary, but drastically alter the style of the magick done. I have SC> not messed with this idea overly much, outside of occassionally using SC> music and dance as a catalyst for raising energy, integrating my usual SC> symbols into the proceedings (i.e. a hermetic mosh pit, throwing up SC> chaos-stars at the quarters...) Hehe. Magical mosh pits...what a concept! :) I like Metallica for my rites. SC> Care to share your findings concerning stretching the boundaries of how SC> to do ritual? HHHmmmm. When I was toying with the concept, I wrote initiation rituals. I altered the myth slightly so as to have a completely different premise, dialogue, historical background, and word. Unfortunetly, as far as the words go, they are only translations from one language into another, so they still retain the same "feel". I have been unsuccessful in escaping the accepted archetypes we use presently. Any ideas or thoughts on how this could be done? Love is the Law. Gerald ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: Thelema To: Neuro Sonic 16 Jul 92 19:30:32 Subject: Re: POLITICAL stupidity UpdReq In a message dated 14 Jul 92 21:25:36, Neuro Sonic wrote: >I've been interested in writing some amendments which echo Thelemic >POV's NS> Let me know too! I Do Vote! Although this term it looks like S. NS> Craig's vote is the most attractive Right on! At least you care more than most people I know. Your vote is your voice. SC>Write in for CTHULHU! Better than Bush! NS> "Why choose the _lesser_ evil? Amen! Love is the Law. Gerald ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718