From: Frater Almost Area: Thelema To: Steven Craig 2 Jul 92 03:53:56 Subject: Heavy Metal Sent UpdReq The New Black Sabbath album :"DEHUMANIZER" is as Thelemic as Metal can get. It also has songs in the vein of computers and magick merging so it really floats my boat. But, then again, if Ronnie James Dio made a tape of nothing more than his belches and beer farts, I'd buy it in a heart-beat....... Devotion, you might say. :) Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rapier Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 30 Jun 92 06:30:04 Subject: Re: Lucifer myths UpdReq MH> The prohibitions against magick in both the Semitic and Arya- MH> Hindu holy books are more than certainly a rebellion against MH> the female ex-power elite. Since magick, a gift of the Goddess, MH> was considered a Female preserve, it was strictly verboten. MH> The importance of "seed" and the portrayal of females as MH> passive, non-creative "vessels" for the all-creative masculine MH> was also a rebellion against the old Matriarchy. By portraying I would tend to agree with you but being a novice my knowledge and grasp of the ceremony is fuzzy at best. Still, in perusing Crowley's "Gnostic Mass" and the "Sacred Grimoir" it seemed like the female (often labelled a "Virgin" altough how thats possible in modern times is beyond me :) ) seems to take a pronounced secondary role to the priest...and if that is case then that likely holds true about the whole thread behind the ritual. Funny, I've heard some severe bad-mouthing of Crowley; insinuations he was pretty sexist....Do you know of any other references to Thel/GD that I might take a look at? ... ------>|* RAPIER! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steven Craig Area: Thelema To: Karl Lembke 1 Jul 92 00:30:58 Subject: Re: Lucifer myths UpdReq I disagree that "our longing for Eden is the spiritual equivilant of a return to nursery school". For one thing, Adam and Eve were not in the animal state before they partook of the fruit. They were, in a sense, in a higher state; one in which they were in constant communication with God. The eating of the fruit weakened that link, but more importantly, put the couple into the universe of duality. The analogy of the Great Work as a return to Eden, to me, is not a longing for the Secure Past, but rather a desire to reach a state unbound by duality. Someone who starts at Malkuth and climbs their way up the Tree of Life is better off than someone who started at the top, in the sense that the former will have obtained a great deal of experience in hir travels. Incidentally, some people have theorized that the reason Adam & Eve got kicked out of Eden was not merely a result of eating the fruit. Rather, God confronted Adam with the deed, and his response was "it was her fault!" It was his failure to accept responsibility, and his haste in passing the buck, that got them kicked out of Eden. 93 93/93, Steve 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steven Craig Area: Thelema To: Frater Q.A.A. 1 Jul 92 00:46:08 Subject: Re: Wm. Blake UpdReq Regarding Liber LXV & earthquakes, I pay very little attention to other people's prophecies. If Weird Omens start showing up in my life, I will certainly take heed, but neither in that case nor in the case of other people's thoughts will I go out of my way to prove or disprove what has been said. This is particularly the case, in my opinion, regarding Liber LXV, a piece which is not meant to be a prophetic diatribe, but rather a description of a certain facet of one's magickal evolution- the dialogue with Adonai/HGA is a very personal thing, and I don't see much correlation between in and Prophetic World Events. 93 93/93, Steve 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steven Craig Area: Thelema To: Frater Q.A.A. 1 Jul 92 00:56:54 Subject: Re: MUSCIAN EH? UpdReq Magickally-influenced music is definitely neat stuff. Half of the fun of bands like Coil & PTV is the interesting tidbits in the liner notes, describing how and why the various pieces are put together. BTW, are you an active musician, or just an avid listener? My current project, as I've mentioned, is a pretty straightforward rock band, but once I get some extra cash + buy a mixer, I really want to start doing some tape-manipulation type stuff on my own; I have lots of ideas already (including the integration of magickal themes), and I'm sure it will be a lot of fun. 93 93/93, Steve 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Karl Lembke Area: Thelema To: David Cherubim 29 Jun 92 06:29:00 Subject: Thirteen UpdReq KL> I am looking for material on the significance, KL> magical and otherwise, of KL> the number 13. I have some references, and some KL> ideas, but I'd appreciate KL> hearing about anything anyone else has to offer. DC> HOOR-PAAR-KRAAT (!?) ??? Elaborate please? ___ X SLMR 1.0 X In a perfect world, people would live in a perfect world. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Karl Lembke Area: Thelema To: Merle Corey 29 Jun 92 06:29:10 Subject: Just another run by UpdReq MC> FA> How many Thelemites does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Three. One to change the bulb, and one as a blind to mislead the uninitiated. ___ X SLMR 1.0 X In a perfect world, people would live in a perfect world. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Hypsoleticus Area: Thelema To: Frater Q.A.A. 2 Jul 92 01:51:10 Subject: Muscian Eh? UpdReq In 1984 I heard, on the radio, a piece called "Chapter Two", from an album called The Book Of The Law. It was put out by a band called THE HERETICS OF NEW YORK. Needless to say, it was the text put to some very appropriate music. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 30 Jun 92 19:08:02 Subject: Re: Eight Cabala 1/ UpdReq >While still in base-10, Frater Achad's "rewrite" of the >Tree challenges the terrible ordeal concept of the Abyss, >which he suggests is itself an Osirian concept. >If Josh Norton is catching this discussion, maybe he can add some throw >weight to this question (the relevance of the Abyss model). >It figured in some of his published work. Always glad to put in my $.05 worth, Paul! (And as usual, I'm probably going to give you more than you wanted. Be ye forewarned! ) Better save this offline and read it at your leisure. I expect you'll want to think about it before replying. I don't recall anything in Achad's three books that dealt specifically with this question, but the black hole I use for my memory may have eaten that particular fact. As far as I know, it didn't show up in explicit form until I took over his work, though there are some hints in that direction from some Achadian work done in the early 70's. (Three messages I sent to Michelle Hass this week have a relevance to this subject, but for some reason the BBS stuffed them into the "Tarot" section instead of here. You might take a look there in case I miss something in reiterating it here, as I undoubtedly will. It also has a slightly different viewpoint, which may serve to enhance your picture of what I am saying here. I forget what the subject was. Maybe "care bears".) OK. Here goes: In the expanded Achadian system circa 1992, neither the Abyss nor the "false sephira" Da'ath has any place in the "natural" order of the magickal universe. Both are entirely hallucinatory, and their appearance of reality is due to the nature of the Ruach and that creature of the Ruach, the _individualized_ Self, soul, or genius. The so-called soul is not an atomic entity. That is, it is not an essentially indivisible being, even though that is what "individual" means. Rather, it is a construct composed of many parts, built out of the matter of the planes of the Ruach, and brought to life by a mysterious "something" (which is NOT individualized, but IS aware) emanating from the highest three sephiroth. The sense of individuality, of a self-aware being posessing distinct character and somehow separate from the rest of creation, is a second-order effect arising from the intense interaction of these component parts and the nature of the matter used in its creation. (This view is represented in Achad's Tree by the path of Shin connecting Kether and Tiphereth. In the Tarot card for the path, we see three coffins (= matter) floating _on top of_ water (water = path of Mem, connecting Tiphereth and Yesod) out of which three human corpses are awakened in the LVX sign (= Tiphereth) in response to the sound of an angel's trumpet (= the vibratory energy of the divine creative impulse, emanating from Kether). Thus the human soul is created in Tiphereth through the action of the divine impulse on the material of that plane.) So the soul does have an internal structure, which is dependent upon the nature of the material out of which it is made. That is the first point to remember. The six sephiroth that make up the Ruach (Yesod through Chesed) have one characteristic in common. The soul can project its awareness into any of these planes (and ONLY into these planes) without changing the basic nature of its internal structure. It can not project into Malkuth and remain self-aware, because the reflexivity of self-awareness is impossible on that level. It can not project itself into Binah and maintain its sense of individuality because the exclusionary nature of its basic structure can not exist at that level. (This is a confusing matter in itself, which I won't go into in detail here.) The soul normally projects itself into the lower planes by creating reflections of itself (actually, of its idea of itself) on those planes, and then using its awareness to enliven them. (Again, the nature of the reflection is partially determined by the nature of the matter it is built in, and is therefore not a precise copy of the soul. It repeats on a smaller scale the process that originally brought the soul into being.) The soul normally projects itself into Geburah and Chesed by building the matter of those planes into its original structure and using its normal "senses" to perceive there. The process we call initiation, in which an external source provides a "boost" up to a higher level, enables it to first reach and attach itself to the matter there. Eventually the soul finds that while it can still reach higher levels with an external boost, it can't remain on those levels, can't remember clearly what it experienced, can't get back to them on its own once the boost-energy is used up, and can't build the material of those levels into itself. When it tries to do so, it finds that it can't even "touch" any material there. There is the _subjective_ appearance of an empty gap, which we have taken to calling the Abyss. This gap isn't really there; there is just as much matter there as at any lower point in the Tree. The problem is that the material at that level becomes so much finer that it can no longer support the sort of individualized structure that is the soul. An analogous physical problem would be trying to construct a ferris wheel out of quarks, without first using those quarks to build atoms. The existence of the ferris wheel depends on qualities that simply don't exist in the material you are trying to use, and any structure you do manage to build will fall apart as soon as you stop applying an external force. "Crossing the Abyss" -- the term Crowley popularized -- is really an impossibility. Even as the hallucination that it is, the Abyss has only one edge. There is NO point further up the Tree at which an individualized self-awareness again becomes possible. (The fact that Crowley used this term for years and never once indicated that it was a misnomer makes me wonder if he ever really got beyond the edge. I get the feeling that he used it for the same reason that any priest or carnival huckster uses flowery language -- it impresses the yokels.) However, as I said towards the beginning of this message, the structure that is the soul is "enlivened", held together by, and gets its capability for awareness from a mysterious "something". This "something" originated in the supernals, and therefore has the potential ability to operate on those levels as the soul can not. Thus the problem of getting into the supernals is one of learning how to separate this "something" from the structure we perceive as the soul, and to allow it to act on its own in its own natural levels. As I said to Michelle, this task involves a mind-wrenching sort of reflexivity, since it is the soul that has to initiate the effort, and not the "something". It is as if a box had learn how to open itself. I can't give much practical advice on this task, since I'm still at an interim stage and therefor lack a clear view. I can say that one of the first steps is to condition yourself to an awareness that what you think of as yourself is not a unity but a multiplicity, and that this multiplicity acts as a container for the "something" that has to be released. Once this awareness is perceived as a fact, at least for short intervals, then other developments can arise. One thing I can say for certain from my experience so far: Crowley's ideas about the self being "devoured by Choronzon" or otherwise destroyed are absolute nonsense. There is absolutely no need for the soul-structure to be injured in any way during the process of separation. Nor will it dissolve once the separation is complete. The process is not at all terrifying or otherwise painful. If anyone claims otherwise, I will suspect he is either talking about things he hasn't experienced, a fraud, or a complete incompetent. >>> Continued to next message * SLMR 2.1a * Never trust an occipian. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 30 Jun 92 19:08:04 Subject: Re: Eight Cabala 2/ UpdReq >>> Continued from previous message The "something" is endlessly protean. It is well within its capabilities to leave a little bit of its energy to maintain the soul-structure while most of its attention is elsewhere. It is able to merge itself -- temporarily or permanently -- with other bits of "something", or to borrow from a general pool of "something" to enhance itself as necessary. It can participate in an awareness larger than human, or in several of them at the same time. And once the soul-structure becomes accustomed to it, it is perfectly capable of doing all these things while simultaneously acting as an individualized person. There, Paul, is that enough? * SLMR 2.1a * Never trust an occipian. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Azoth 30 Jun 92 19:28:06 Subject: Re: Eight Cabala UpdReq >PH> While still in base-10, Frater Achad's "rewrite" of the >PH> Tree challenges the terrible ordeal concept of the Abyss, >PH> which he suggests is itself an Osirian concept. >I still don't quite know what to make of Achad's Tree, and I'm even >willing, on alternate Tuesdays, to consider that his Key to Al may >be off track. Sure, but what do I know from Nuthin? Judgement >withheld, due to lack of comprehension.... >PH> If Josh Norton is catching this discussion, maybe he can add some throw >PH> weight to this question (the relevance of the Abyss model). >PH> It figured in some of his published work. >I've got a number of his documents, mostly relating to the Temple system, >particularly the one on 'Generating the Abyss Experience.' Fascinating >work; sorta like an Enochian Rinzai hammer.... Ia, Ben! Care to comment? For the "official" (guffaw!) Achadian position on the Abyss, see my reply to Paul under this same date and subject. As for the technique described in 'Generating the Abyss Experience', I haven't used it in years. Scares the SHIT out of me, and makes me sick as a dog for days after. It literally drains the life-energy out of you. Why anyone would want to deliberately create a condition of self-dispersion is beyond me, especially as it isn't necessary. I almost didn't release the paper, and wouldn't have if the other folks involved hadn't insisted. I still don't know their full reasons for wanting it known. Perhaps they are hoping that some of the worst incompetents will eliminate themselves before they can cause trouble for anyone else. Evolution in action. * SLMR 2.1a * Jesus saves...Passes to Moses...He shoots... He Scores!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 30 Jun 92 19:35:08 Subject: Re: Lucifer myths UpdReq > JN> Individuals can combine to produce an entity with its own > JN> individuality. I've been a temporary part of such entities on many > JN> occasions -- though all the other participants were (I think) not > JN> incarnate at the time. I don't see any reason why such an entity > JN> couldn't reach a scope where the term "god" would be applicable to it. >Which brings up the flipside: was "god" the correct term for me to >have used in the first place? Hmmm... Well, in my vocabulary "god" is an extremely loose term for entities with a scope of action and/or perception significantly beyond what individual humans can accomplish alone. "Angels" are entities with a scope similar to that of a non-incarnate human, but lacking incarnate experience. >Maybe. I'd rather not get into defining that particular term (can you >say "quicksand"?), but I think that it's close enough. Perhaps all >"gods", as being "below" Kether, are synergistic entities of that >sort. I am certain a lot of them are. All of them? I dunno. >It's always dangerous to generalize. A-MEN! * SLMR 2.1a * Follow a Paranoid 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Neuro Sonic 30 Jun 92 19:39:10 Subject: Re: Lucifer myths UpdReq >Does the name Nazi Germany or Roman Catholic Church ring a bell.... >^ >JN> I don't see any reason why such a state of collective >JN> manifestation couldn't reach a godlike potential. (or >JN> somethin' along those lines.) >-Neuro That seems like a non-sequitur. Would you care to elaborate? -Josh * SLMR 2.1a * How do I get OFF this planet?? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718