From: Olorin Area: Thelema To: Vere Chappell 4 Jun 92 22:31:00 Subject: POLITICAL stupidity UpdReq VC> Somewhere else: "The lesser of two evils is still evil". VC>People who think voting makes a difference have succumbed to the VC>brainwashing which begins in grade school about our "great system of VC>government". As people who say it doesn't have convinced themselves that it doesn't work with little or no investment in the system, What would you propose as a system of government that must keep some sort of order among such diverse groups? Most of whom want to kill each other? The economic argument is stale and inacurrate. Political power isa for those who bither to take it an not just complain about it. It is easy to bitch but when was the last time YOU ran for office? VC>Still, better to make some choice than to let them run all over you VC>saying, "nobody voted, so nobody cares!" Point is if you don't vote you are denying your own protest. VC>P.S. Consumer "voting" is best - use your purchase power to change the VC>world. Corporations have the real power in this country (and many others). They are not that is as inaccurate and juvenile an opinion as saying governments are the "real" power, all that is very unstudied and childish. However I give you your space to be so. Economics is not as powerful as religious bigotry or other bigotry..it is the interaction of the various powers that leads one to believe one is more influential than another. Pax Celtoi i await theflames.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: Thelema To: Mike Pfeiffer 10 Jun 92 20:00:14 Subject: Re: POLITICAL CORRECTNESS UpdReq In a message dated 08 Jun 92 20:40:03, Mike Pfeiffer wrote: MP> My solution? In order of preference: MP> 1) Anarchist Utopia where everyone is cool to everyone else when at all MP> possible, and never needlessly cruel. I like it ;) MP> 2) A totalitarian police state run by my benevolent self. Well...at least you are honest. MP> 3) Thermonuclear obliteration of all life on the planet MP> except for my slaves, er dupes, er close personal friends... In this case, I'd better get on yer good side, ey? ;) MP> I think evolution will out, but if we do this right we could MP> shave a good fifty million years off the learning curve. There will MP> come a point in each of us when death is preferable to slavery. Let MP> us hope we do simultaneously and in vast numbers... In order to accomplish this change in consciousness simultaneously, where slavery is worse than death; it will mean that we will have to feel some personal loss when some one other than ourselves is enslaved. I don't think it will happen in our life time...people are very selfish when it comes to comforts...why rock the boat? Love is the Law. Gerald ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: Thelema To: Mike Pfeiffer 10 Jun 92 20:08:14 Subject: Re: DMT UpdReq In a message dated 08 Jun 92 20:46:49, Mike Pfeiffer wrote: MP> Betel. Grows in India & Pakistan. tastes like shit & not MP> really psychedelic. Almost as bad as Kava Kava but at least the MP> dosage is smaller. There must be some unwritten Universal Law which states that all really cool natural drugs must taste like doggie doo doo :/ MP> Yes, I think you can learn to do it without drugs. Yogis have MP> a higher concentration of certain psychedelics (10 methoxy harmalan, MP> I think) in their pineal glands than control groups, as I recall. MP> All this is probably tied in with sex and pleasure and MP> programming and ... information ... That's why ideas get shit on, my MP> man - they change consciousness. You see a pretty woman, light on MP> your retina, which squirts hormones that make your dick hard. MP> Information transcends neurochemistry... My Biology teacher never quite put it like that ;) MP> As for Perot: the drug camps are already operating in MP> Maryland, It was Perot's money they were thinking about using, and MP> it may be written down or not. Some I heard over alternative media MP> airwaves (KPFK - Pacifica public radio), and some I got from Tom MP> Tetzlaff, and he only ever says true things... Interesting...deserves to be checked out. Are you saying that the Bush administration is using Perot's money to do the drug camp deal? I know someone who got 1 year for each hit of acid he was busted with: over 400 hits. This, of course, is the result of Bush's "no tolerance" policies, and will be appealed. Say hello to Tom for me. Tell him to hurry up and get is ass up here...wher nature still meaans somethig >:-) Love is the Law. Gerald ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Jones Area: Thelema To: Gerald Del Campo 10 Jun 92 18:13:14 Subject: Re: POLITICAL CORRECTNESS UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Regarding your query on the German quotation, it's from Bertolt Brecht. Love is the law, love under will. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Coyote 130 Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 10 Jun 92 08:37:20 Subject: Lucifer myths UpdReq hmm.. That smacks ov Edgar Cayce, or Ruth Montgomery... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Coyote 130 Area: Thelema To: Azoth 10 Jun 92 08:52:36 Subject: Re: Creation/Destruction UpdReq ummm... As an exercise, why don't you re-read what you wrote, only supplanting 'creation' with 'destruction', and vice versa? A> While I tend to agree with your observations A> generally, I will suggest an A> alternative reading of the phenomena which prompt A> your conclusion. As an A> arrant unbeliever of the Actuality of destruction A> (at least that which is A> achievable by the pitiful inhabitants of our beloved A> ball of dung) I note A> that most destruction, so-called, seems rather to A> consist of incompetent A> and failed creation, of arrogant and belligerent attempts to out-create A> someone else's creative effort, or mistaken and ignorant attempts to A> 'assist' the 'natural order of things'. At the risk of proliferating A> platitudes, I will suggest that ONLY creation is possible, and the A> resultant apparancy of 'destruction' will typically A> be best observed only A> by those whose values fail to concur. True A> destruction, I suspect, is the A> natural result of _cessation_ of creation, and may well be considered A> qualitatively superior, if only because of its rarity. A> Love is the law, love under will. A> ___ A> X BABBLE v1.0 X There is no law beyond. Do what thou wilt. A> A> --- Maximus 2.00 A> * Origin: Cat House - Washington D.C. (703) 525-1731 (1:109/155) l-ov-E c130 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steven Craig Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 10 Jun 92 14:36:40 Subject: Re: Creation/Destruction UpdReq JN> Hmm. OK, I can buy that. Which automatically puts me in the wrong in JN> part of my previous arguments. (Steve, are you reading this??) When JN> destruction involves the removal of the cause of an JN> unnatural condition, JN> and allows the restoration of a "natural" balance, then "pure" JN> destruction is acceptable and useful. Ex: Destroying a building and Hoho! I stand victorious! :-) Seriously, this is precisely what I've been trying to express all along, and Kreizenski has my thanks for wording it in a manner which settles the matter. JN> But for the life of me, I can't think of an example on the JN> social/psychological levels were pure destruction JN> would be appropriate. I think the idea is all the more useful in such areas. Destruction of societal taboos and learned superstitions is a must at some stage in the game, although you are perfectly correct that pure destruction isn't _always_ the best technique... I am fond of something Nietzsche remarked, to the effect that one should be careful when casting out one's demons, for fear of throwing away the best parts. However, while integrating conflicting elements into the whole is often a good idea, there are some things that ought to simply be sent off to file 13. For instance, I was rabidly anti-Christian for quite some time after becoming a pagan, and later a magickian. Over time, I discovered the Gnostics, the grail myths, etc., and decided maybe there was something appealing there after all. However, I also decided that the Pauline prejudices, repressed morality, ignorant literalism, etc. did not need to be integrated- I've done my best to get rid of them altogether. 93 93/93, Steve 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steven Craig Area: Thelema To: Kreizenski 10 Jun 92 14:51:16 Subject: Re: POLITICAL CORRECTNES UpdReq K> And I truly fail to understand why people get so darn mad over K> NoGaysInCabinet... hell, I think we'd best start with getting a Gay K> Mayor or three somewhere! Reminds me of beginning jujus starting with K> Crowley stuff...... "NoGaysInCabinet" bothers me for the same reason that "NoOrientalsInCabinet" or "NoQuakersInCabinet" bothers me, regardless of whether or not precedent has been set by lower political eschelons. (and besides, I learned Qabalah out of 777... :-) ) K> Steve, it's the mandate for doing business in a world where you are K> trying to sell yourself. The people doing the buying can dress as they K> wish, but the people out in the field trying to sell the company must K> present a good image. K> Would you have the Pres. show up in Moscow for a meeting wearing long K> hair and sneakers, because that's how he's comfortable??? Good for him, You're missing my point- Perot may be a corporate genius, but the president IS NOT A CORPORATE EXECUTIVE. Nowhere did I deny that maintaining an image is important in politics. My complaint is that I do not think corporate management psychology will apply well at all in running a country. 93 93/93, Steve 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steven Craig Area: Thelema To: David Hartis 11 Jun 92 03:40:40 Subject: Dmt UpdReq DH> can only remember maybe one. Maybe because it wasn't that lucid and DH> didn't last that long.Hmmmm....I'm unsure but DH> isn't L-triptophane a non DH> over the counter medicine? Unfortunately, triptophane was made completely illegal a few years back; I was aware it had mildly euphoric properties, but had not heard of its uses in lucid dreaming until the subject was brought up here on the net. Drat. I've had a couple of lucid dreams, but its been a couple of years since my last experience in that area; its probably about time to re-read Stephen LaBerge's book, to refresh myself and get properly enthused about the whole thing again. Most of the lucid dreams I've had have only lasted a couple of seconds; I become so shocked that I'm dreaming that I soon snap out of it. On only one occassion have I had a fully lucid dream give me time enough to excercise any control (which consisted of delightfully conjuring forth naked women etc. etc.) I've had experiences on a couple of other occassions, however, where I've been in control of the events of a dream, without realizing I'm dreaming. I recall one instance where I dreamt I was at a party, engaged in conversation with an interesting lady. I got up to fool with the VCR, and when I returned, she had moved to another sofa. I calmly recited a brief incantation under my breath to get her to sit next to me again, and sure enough, she did. This impressed the hell out of me, since I was unaware I was in the dream state. 93 93/93, Steve 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steven Craig Area: Thelema To: Gerald Del Campo 11 Jun 92 03:52:02 Subject: Re: DMT UpdReq GDC> If this is true about the receptor sites, then it should be GDC> possible to stimulate those sites without the GDC> use of drugs, no? Wouldn't THAT piss off the GDC> "just say no" regime ;) Lately, I've been working with various non-chemical methods of conciousness expansion, such as dream machines and the use of sound to produce altered states of conciousness (this doesn't mean I'm adverse to the intelligent application of chemicals, but rather I wish to touch as many bases as possible). I recently received a tape consisting largely of sub-sonics and pulses designed to produce alpha activity in the brain. Laying down and listening to the thing produces some remarkable effects, espescially when used in conjunction with a dream machine. The alpha-enhancer stuff leaves me feeling tremendously buzzed, while some of the subsonics have weirder effects still; the first time I listened to one of the excercises, I felt the need to turn it off because it was weirding me out too badly. The next time, it was not unpleasant, but I blacked out for at least ten minutes; I remember the excercise starting, and the next thing I know, the tape had flipped and started playing music. Fascinating stuff... 93 93/93, Steve 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kreizenski Area: Thelema To: Steven Craig 11 Jun 92 19:32:00 Subject: Re: POLITICAL CORRECTNES UpdReq SC)> You're missing my point- Perot may be a corporate genius, but the preside SC)>IS NOT A CORPORATE EXECUTIVE. Nowhere did I deny that SC)>maintaining an image is important in politics. My SC)>complaint is that I do not think corporate management SC)>psychology will apply well at all in running a country. Yeah, but name one president we've had recently that didn't make a couple billions in the corporate world before going political? Usually as lawyers, the straightnecks of the straightnecks! * OLX 2.2 * Destruction breathes the lies, and this is what's alive.. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718