From: Rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: The Sorcerer (Sysop) 4 Oct 92 02:34:50 Subject: Ayn Rand Sent UpdReq Ayn Rand is one of the founding mothers of libertarianism in this country--or at least a very strong influence on it. Her philosophy is militantly pro-capitalist and pro laissez-faire economics. Her ethcs are based on a code of Social Darwinism and her politics are virulently anti-communist and anti-market interference. I'd be interested in learning how to get on the Objectivism reading list...Rand is a big influence on my life and I think her political ideals are probably the best cure for what ails this country. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Rakshasa 4 Oct 92 08:26:54 Subject: Re: Zeena LaVey Rec'd Sent UpdReq R> I've often wondered what would happen if I did one of Crowley's R> Jugorum exercises (the one wherein you are to take R> on the personality of another individual) and R> became John Galt for a while. The results would R> be interesting, I think. John Galt's attitude would be deemed "insufferable arrogance" by the unwashed masses. At the very least you'd be fired from your job and shunned by "decent" society. At worst you'd be imprisoned and/or murdered. But hey, a little suffering's good for the soul, right??? };-) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Rakshasa 4 Oct 92 08:30:26 Subject: Re: Necronomicon Rec'd Sent UpdReq R> CN) Everybody needs a hobby. R> R> Indeed...I've just taken up cooking...maybe I R> can have you for dinner some night. R> R> Xeper and Remanifest R> Rakshasa R> aka Kevin T. "Hannibal Lecter, M.D." Filan I* Pack your lunch! };-) (Rumor has it that the sequel to "The Silence of the Lambs" features a love match between Hannibal and the young lady FBI agent. Seems too good to be true....) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Rakshasa 4 Oct 92 08:34:36 Subject: Re: Drugs and Spirituality Rec'd Sent UpdReq R> Of course, the Drug War isn't about logic; it's about images. Exactly! R> money," etc., etc.) What I find most depressing is R> that so few have realized this; the majority of R> Americans are eating up this "War on Drugs" R> horseshit lik it was cotton candy. They really R> believe their children are at great risk and that R> American society is on the verge of collapse as a R> result of drug abuse. Why hasn't anybody compared R> the War on Drugs statements (i.e. Andrew Young's R> "This is a war on drugs and in a war you have to The discontent you mention is one of a number of preliminary rumblings of Amerikan masses before the REAL eruption, which will occur after a sufficient number of people have lost jobs, homes, etc. to trigger real outrage. Anyone/anything that's different will be the target, and the fundies may yet have the Armageddon they so dearly desire. Reagan himself made comments about his conviction that we're living in the "End Times", and I'm convinced that he was just itching to rocket us all into the hereafter.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Oz Tech 4 Oct 92 08:41:24 Subject: RE: Seeking Music Info Rec'd Sent UpdReq OT> music. At the moment I use Prescott's _Walking in OT> Slow Circles_, Nocturnal OT> Emission's _Spiritflesh_, Conrad Schnitzler's OT> album of electronic weirdness on OT> Unitron Records, and selected cuts from Psychic OT> TV's _Descending_ and _Towards OT> Thee Infinite Beat_. Thanks! The only one of those I have is _Towards Thee Infinite Beat_. I'll check the others.... All the Beast, Nemo 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Oz Tech 4 Oct 92 08:44:08 Subject: RE: Re: RE: My _Abrasax_ column Rec'd Sent UpdReq OT> Distribution is restricted to Setians and the OT> occasional university scholar. OT> Sorry. I'll ask about a public edition but don't hold your breath. Thanks for trying! }:-) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 4 Oct 92 08:47:34 Subject: Re: Harassment Sent UpdReq CN> Can a person get printouts of callers? I CN> thought that CALLER ID was CN> being battled as an invasion of privacy, whether it be digital CN> readouts that show your caller's number on CN> your phone, or printouts. DB> It was here in Tulsa, but they have it. However, DB> you may press a key DB> after completing your dial that will disable the message packet from DB> the caller end. How is that done??? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Oz Tech 4 Oct 92 09:18:56 Subject: RE: Seeking Music Info Rec'd Sent UpdReq Oz Tech said this to Markie Chao: OT> No, I don't subscribe to "Black Flame"--it just OT> doesn't look right alongside OT> "Technology Review" and "Communications of the OT> ACM" in my magazine rack--but OT> that's interesting; I'll see what I can learn OT> about Storm Productions and OT> Cthulhu Records from one of my German contacts. Thanks much! Check out _The Fifth Path_, which has excellent reviews of new LHP musical items, as well as interviews with leading LHP musical groups. Send $5.00 for the current issue to: The Fifth Path, P.O. Box 1632, Carmichael, CA 95609-1632. Make money order payable to Robert Ward. You can also buy a four issue subscription for $20.00. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: The Sorcerer (Sysop) 4 Oct 92 09:28:00 Subject: Zeena T-Shirt Sent UpdReq Radio Werewolf sells a large, glossy poster of Zeena. Seems to me the price is about $20.00. Delivery can take a LONG time.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 4 Oct 92 16:39:38 Subject: Re: Zeena LaVey Sent UpdReq CN> John Galt's attitude would be deemed "insufferable CN> arrogance" by the unwashed masses. At the very CN> least you'd be fired from your job and shunned by CN> "decent" society. At worst you'd be imprisoned CN> and/or murdered. CN> CN> But hey, a little suffering's good for the soul, right??? };-) Sigh...I suspect you're right. What ever happened to the good old days of class-consciousness? And yes, the unwashed masses have a tendency to attack those attempting to rise above them with a virulence and hatred formerly reserved for witches and Communists (note the "fascist" label tossed at every Satanic organization today). I think it's unfortunate that "human" is considered a label you're born into, not something you have to earn. The only difference between my dog and many of the "humans" I've met is that my dog was far more loyal, trustworthy and safe around children. Of course, by showing this I've proven I'm an enemy of the "people" by those who are brainwashed into believing the egalitarian crap forcefed us in school and by television. I expect to get a few nasty responses on this attitude--but what the hell, I'm in a lousy mood right now and a little suffering will be good for my soul ;) ! Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 4 Oct 92 16:45:20 Subject: Re: Necronomicon Sent UpdReq CN> Pack your lunch! };-) (Rumor has it that the CN> sequel to "The Silence of the Lambs" features a CN> love match between Hannibal and the young lady FBI CN> agent. Seems too good to be true....) You're kidding?!!? They're going to make a sequel to one of my all-time favorite movies! Let's hope they don't fuck it up. This promises to be interesting. I've always thought Hannibal Lecter, M.D. to be a great Satanic character. As Thomas Harris portrays him in _Red Dragon_ and _The Silecne of the Lambs_ he is the one in control of events, even locked in a jail cell and kept under restraints. He's a good example for the rest of us to follow--except for his culinary habits, of course. (Although I don't know--those Jehovah's Witnesses I had yesterday were very tasty, especially with Hollandaise sauce and a nice Raspberry Souffle for dessert). Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 4 Oct 92 16:49:10 Subject: Re: Drugs and Spirituality Sent UpdReq R> Of course, the Drug War isn't about R> logic; it's about images. CN> CN> Exactly! I find that much of American political life has of late been reduced to the production of images. Very little of substance is offered or even debated--instead, politicians seem to work overtime to produce images of themselves as competent, attractive, etc... Of course, this is the inevitable result of egalitarianism; politics must be reduced to the lowest common denominator. As a generation weaned on television, facts are no longer as important as images. The Gulf War, which accomplished nothing of strategic importance yet was presented to us as Desert Storm--America Frees Kuwait (and makes the world safe for feudal monarchy), is a perfect example of this. So is the invasion of Panama (a direct result of the drug war propaganda--I'm liable to start thinking that we're getting softened up for military action in Central/South America if I'm not too careful here). CN> CN> The discontent you mention is one of a number of preliminary CN> rumblings of Amerikan masses before the REAL CN> eruption, which will occur after a sufficient CN> number of people have lost jobs, homes, etc. to CN> trigger real outrage. Anyone/anything that's CN> different will be the target, and the fundies may CN> yet have the Armageddon they so dearly desire. CN> Reagan himself made comments about his conviction CN> that we're living in the "End Times", and I'm CN> convinced that he was just itching to rocket us all CN> into the hereafter.... I think the Republican platform (with its attacks on gay rights, working women like Hillary Clinton, "quotas" or, in a more direct translation, "blacks in your neighborhood" and "anti-Christian values") is a good example of political types trying (unsuccessfully, I hope) to capitalize on the ill feelings among Americans. As you said, we're not at the crisis point yet. Wait until unemployment hits 15-20%--then we have every chance of seeing a Race War that will put Sarajevo to shame. I suspect that, as the problems grow, so will white supremacy movements. Already we're hearing thinly veiled cries for revolution coming from the ghettos of America--as whites feel increasingly threatened they will, I would guess, start banding together. Everybody who's different--be he gay or Jewish or Satanist or a combination of all the above like yours truly--will have to watch out. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Oz Tech Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 4 Oct 92 23:34:00 Subject: My _Abrasax_ Sent UpdReq CN> OT> Distribution is restricted to Setians and the CN> OT> occasional university scholar. CN> OT> Sorry. I'll ask about a public edition but don't hold your CN> breath. CN> CN> Thanks for trying! }:-) Note that I said _distribution_. If you know a Setian who owns one and thinks you have a good reason to look over his or her copy, you're in luck. }:-) Oz --- This copy of Freddie 1.1 is being evaluated. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Oz Tech Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 4 Oct 92 23:47:02 Subject: Seeking Music Info Sent UpdReq CN> Check out _The Fifth Path_, which has excellent reviews of new LHP CN> musical items, as well as interviews with leading LHP musical CN> groups. Will do, thanx. Oz ___ This copy of Freddie 1.1 is being evaluated. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 4 Oct 92 07:46:00 Subject: Re: Necronomican UpdReq ra> certain copies of certain books "home." Would you care to comment ra> more on that? I would be interested in seeing any examples you may ra> have of demonic infestation of a book, house, etc.. Sorry, I would not care to comment on this for a couple of reasons. One, being that it has already been talked about before in here. And two, the person involved is now a modem user....... Therefore, cannot talk about it, nor will reply to anyone that leaves me any messages concerning it..... ra> As far as the high school kids go: I haven't yet seen ra> anything that made me suggest that adolescents are killing for Satan ra> in any significant numbers--or in any numbers, period. I know the Organized Satanism, probably not..... Self-styled, yes.... And I do know of an accidence concerning this, but can't go into it... And I am talking about on the personal level to... However, I won't even reply... ra> story of Shawn Sellars (sp.), the Oklahoma teenager who allegedly ra> killed a few people for Satan, and of the teens in New York who As far as Shawn Sellers, I don't know if he is telling the truth or not. But there are victims of Satanic (not necessarily people that worship Satan) crimes, and a while back, I did provide an actual victim, and was even willing to provide a police report, if needed. But, I was never required to show a police report... So, I know for a fact, how real it is.... but I just don't think that people like Setians are doing it.... I think it has to do with alot of crazy high schools kids, like the ones that use Necronomicon as their Bible...... Well, this is the end of my opinions concerning the matter.... I am sorry that I won't reply to this topic any more..... Unless you were using a different handle, I don't think you were in the echo at the time... Sorry... But, I don't wish to go into it again, even for a Setian....... Maybe, if you happen to come down here to meet with the local Setians, and I get to see you, we could talk about it..... TTYL........ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Uranus 4 Oct 92 08:34:00 Subject: Re: Harassment UpdReq Ur> What's the key? If memory serves me, it is the * key. -=Sinistar=- know more of the actuall working of the one here in Tulsa. Perhaps it is different areas use a different disable. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: The Sorcerer (Sysop) 4 Oct 92 08:36:00 Subject: Re: Base of Set? UpdReq TS> What is the # for Purgatory? 918-835-2429 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Base of Set To: Servant 30 Sep 92 22:10:00 Subject: Gnostic gospels UpdReq > Gr> Not all societies shun Homosexuality. In fact, many have embraced it > Gr> as natural. I think you are showing your ignorance of history here, > Gr> Jeffy. > Well, Mr. "Grendel", as a student, I know that groups shun > homosexuality. Everyone, practically, in my school dispises (sp?) > homosex.... a fact. Gee, and I thought I was discussing societies around the world. Do you really think I care what a bunch of redneck Christians think? Wassail, Grendel 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Base of Set To: Reuben Radding 30 Sep 92 22:14:00 Subject: Base of Set? UpdReq > Membership in the Church Of Satan is still $100. > That's LIFE membership. No renewals needed. And look what valuable things you get for your $100!!! Wassail, Grendel 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 30 Sep 92 22:17:00 Subject: Set questions UpdReq > I'm not sure how to respond to your question. I would say that > those groups which seek "immortal incarnation on this earth" and > "development of the higher self at the expense of the Ruach" are > basically LHP groups. I don't believe for one minute that the Temple of > Set/Church of Satan/et al are the only groups treading the LHP. What I > define as RHP are groups, as I said, like Wicca (which seeks oneness > with Mother Earth), Christianity (dissolution in the "bosom of Abraham" > or in the "Body of Christ") or Buddhism (absorption into "Nirvana.") I have yet to see you substantiate these oneness claims. The only one that I know of as valid is the Buddhist one and there are all kinds of variations and nuances to that. -= Grendel =- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 30 Sep 92 22:19:00 Subject: Set questions UpdReq > Morality: RHP Morality is based on the subjugation of the self > to the Other. In other words, a RHP person sees it as his or her "duty" > to subliminate all "selfish" desires and work for the "betterment of > others." E You characterize all pagan religions as RHP but the above statement holds true for very few religions. Wassail, Grendel 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 30 Sep 92 22:24:00 Subject: Set questions UpdReq > One of the differences I see between the LHP and RHP is that most RHP > groups feel the need to "merge" with the "Godhead" (or whatever...) > This has been discussed at some length. And it was never successfully concluded the first time around. The Setians made a lot of claims about the RHP and Neo-Pagans and had a hard time substantiating them. One of your own magi is the founder of a Neo-Pagan organization yet you would say that that organization is a RHP one due to the fact that it is Neo-Pagan. You are being very simplistic in your definitions of RHP vs. LHP and your catagorization of groups into one or the other. Things aren't as clear cut as you would make them out to be. > One of the biggest differences I see (magically), is that the LHP > magicians > recognize that sometimes "interfering" with another "against their Will" > is necessary. Like a Working designed to harm or kill them magically, > for instance. Most RHP magicians feel ANY Working that interferes with > anothers > Will is destined to boomerang (times three, or some similar arbitrary > number). Almost like the Eastern Traditions concept of Karma. This seems to hold true for much of modern Wicca but modern Wicca is not the same as "RHP magicians" (whatever they are exactly). Wassail, Grendel P.S. Yes, I am harping on this but it because I want people to get down to brass tacks and DEFINE EXACT TERMS and then give some evidence, even if personal, to back up the claims. There is an alarming tendency to confuse Christian magicians with Wiccans with Asatru with other forms of paganism. You (or one of the others...) mention the Germanic code of Honor and such and ignore the fact that Germanic pagans currently incorporate all of this in their religion but are, by the the definitions being used here, apparantly RHP regardless of that. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Blaise Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 3 Oct 92 20:26:34 Subject: The Magician's Work UpdReq Trying to grasp the mysteries of Necronomican, Blaise inquired of rakshasa, ra> Look at it this way: I can perform a money ritual and win ra> a bit of cash in the lottery. Lacking control of my spending ra> habits, I will likely run through it and soon be as broke as I ra> was before. Or I can discover why I'm always short of money, ra> work to correct that problem, and wind up with more money than I ra> had before--and know how to use it. That's the difference ra> between sorcery and self-improvement. It's the old "give a man a ra> fish or teach him to fish" deal. The magician's work is toward self-improvement then rather than self-gain? What with what you just said and what I just read concerning the Temple's stance on divining using the Tarot I see there is little difference in core philosophy between ToS and BOTA. You are a true LHP order! Two more questions before I ask whoever I should ask to join to join. What is the Black Flame? I am familiar with the White Light/Fire/Flame and the Kundalini Fire but have never encountered in any ancient text the words "black flame" before. Could you, instead, be referring to the Black Stone? Also, do you have any inner school knowledge about the Three Grails? Both in Celtic and Norse mythology the Grails hold the Elixir of Life. Since I also found the grails referring to a vessel containing revitalizing liquid in Eastern Indian mythology, the Grail stories are VERY old and definitely part of the original Aryan religion. The reason I have decided to go ahead and join, even though I don't join groups generally, is that I perceive people of like minds as well as I have something to give the Order that I hope will be explored in the analytical, unsuperstitious and complete manner that I want this knowledge to be explored. I don't really believe I will learn that much more than I have learned from other Orders since you do not explore the Hermetic sciences so therefore, though having a goal of everlasting life on earth, you have not the foggiest idea how to accomplish this goal. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Servant Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 4 Oct 92 14:58:00 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels UpdReq Greetings. 1 Corinthians 6:9 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the Kingdom of God. DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexual immoral not the idolators nor adulteres not male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor theives nor the greedy nor drunkards..." If this was the case, as you seem to believe that Paul's words mean nothing, then I guess you have to be saying that the drunkards, the adulterers, thieves, and murderers will make it to Heaven, then... correct? I don't think so. The Word of God is written by man, Kevin. The Word of God was INSPIRED by God to the man. Paul is correct in everything he says, according to the Will of God. Other authors in the Bible were inspired by God. Paul was a great man. You do not like him because he looks down on something you like (I am not saying you are a homosexual, I do not know); I think a lot of people give "excuses" about homos. a sin because they think Paul was a hater - he was NOT. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Servant Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 4 Oct 92 15:02:00 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels UpdReq ra> homosexual ones. Love seems to be the key here. If you love, then ra> God will forgive you; that's what I was trying to say. How can you say that? That is like me saying if I go and kill someone because they hurt someone I loved, then God will forgive me. Murder is a sin. Homosexuality is a sin. These are sins in God's eyes. HE DOES NOT MEASURE SIN... a sin is a sin to him. To me, a lot of people, especially young Christians, think that "Aw.. if I go out and screw someone, God will forgive me..." That is not TRUE repentance. God will not forgive you when you think that. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Blaise Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 4 Oct 92 14:07:36 Subject: Set questions UpdReq Trying to grasp the mysteries of Set questions, Blaise inquired of Deep Black, >Bl> DB> I am not a Satanist. >Bl> How are you different than a Satanist? DB> It really has, in my view, very little in common with the COS. You make Satanism sound like a denomination of the LHP religion and that only members of the Church of Satan can rightfully call themselves a Satanist. That, to me, is like saying only the Disciples of Christ can only rightfully be called Christians; Or that only fans of the local piano player from Dallas named Bhudda should rightfully be called Bhuddists. Did not Ipsissimus Aquino pray to Satan before receiving the Crystal Tablet? Wasn't only after he received the Message that he started calling the One he was seeking Set? DB> The only real basis for rejection is joining for frivolous reasons or membership in another organization with principles contrary to the Temple. "....Principals contrary to the Temple". Hmmm. As I see it, the principals of the Temple are very similar to the principals of all other major religions and occult organizations including Christianity. The goals however are very different from many other occult and religious organizations. By principals, if I understand the term, the CoS is referring to their high ethical standards of conduct and devotion to the God Within. Both are true of Christianity. Where they differ is TO WHAT the God Within refers. In Christianity, the God Within is a part of That Which is Not You; that part being called the Holy Spirit (aka the giver of the Mind of Christ, another That Which is Not You entity which resides Within). In Setianism, the God Within is apart of That Which is You. The goal of the Setian and Jehovah's Witness is everlasting life on earth and that of the non-Jehovah's Witness Christian and most other occult orders is everlasting life in a non-ter- restrial plane. The alternate goal of ALL faiths and orders is Godhood. But, here again, how this is can be achieved is what makes the different religions and organizations unique in their methods and teaching. DB> For instance, Fundamentalist Christians need not apply! }:D Aww. Cant you give Big Daddy and honorary membership? Just think of what he would do with a copy of the Crystal Tablet. >Bl> (Oh, by the way the money question was to see if the Temple >Bl> was in it for the money as the Frosts were). DB> Yeah, Gavin and Yov-./ DB> (whatever)......are fixtures in the small print ads, DB> huh? As a matter of fact: Trying to grasp the mysteries of The Frosts, where are they, Blaise inquired of Cat's Paw, >BB> Hey, does anyone know what happen to Gavin and Yvonne >BB> Frost? I >BB> used to belong to their School of Wicca sometime back >BB> until I >BB> learned that they weren't considered acceptable amongst >BB> their >BB> peers. Now it appears that they have disappeared. >BB> >BB> If anyone would tell me what happened I would >BB> appreciate it, CP> I can't tell you what happened, but I was reading Ellery Queen CP> today and found this- CP> WITCHCRAFT Occult Miracle Power Secrets CP> Gavin and Yvonne Frost. Now accepting stu- CP> dents. 1502-AN, New Bern, NC 28563 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 4 Oct 92 16:50:00 Subject: Re: The Magician's Work UpdReq Bl) What is the Black Flame? The Black Flame is the individual intelligence as distinguished from the objective universe. I don't know what the alchemical symbol for the individual intelligence is, if indeed there is one. And re. your comment on hermetics; you're right--I at least haven't the foggiest idea of what alchemy is all about. Perhaps you could post a few basic pointers so I could learn to grasp this fascinating and complex branch of the occult. I would question whether the hermetic sciences (by this I assume you mean the work of Franz Bardon) are the _only_ path to immortality on earth. I think within a few years medical science will have a good chunk of that problem taken care of. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Servant 4 Oct 92 16:57:00 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels UpdReq First--I can think of at least one thief who wound up inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven, the one who was crucified with Jesus. And I thought that any who asked forgiveness could be forgiven. I don't condone the behavior of murderers and thieves because they hurt other people. I'm not sure how exactly homosexuals hurt other people. I actually do think Paul was a hater--I detect serious degrees of bitterness, hatred and pettiness in many of his Letters. And I didn't say his words meant nothing. As I have said before, I consider the Bible a collection of books by men, about a man. The man who stands out most in the book, in my opinion, is Jesus Christ. He is a man who preaches love, who suffers the children to come unto him, who heals a Centurion's child because of his compassion. I don't recall Jesus telling anybody they couldn't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven--except the Pharisees, whom he despised for their self-righteousness and hypocrisy. Paul stands out for me as a far-seeing but ultimately flawed man, one who saw God face to face, and unable to handle the brilliance of God's love, fell back into the prejudices and flaws of his earlier upbringing. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 4 Oct 92 17:11:00 Subject: Re: Necronomican UpdReq Your reluctance to talk about this topic is accepted; however, I might point out that this attitude is often taken by those claiming "Satanic crimes" or "demonic possession." When asked for facts or substantiation, they become silent, claim amnesia, or imply that the questioner is part of the "Forces of Satan." I understand you not wanting to refer to another person. Hopefully you will understand my reluctance to believe any such claim without proof. I at least would be interested in seeing the police report you alluded to. Perhaps when I looked at that I could have a better idea of what kind of "Satanic teenagers" we are talking about. And no, Setians don't do rituals of that sort--I'm glad you made that point and that you understand that. I would say, though, that many of the anti-Satanic hysteria-mongers, when confronted by people of the Temple of Set, will say "Well, your organization doesn't do it, but..." If you wish to send a copy of the police report to me, I will look at it and let you know my feelings on the subject. I'm a paralegal with a background in criminal defense work, so I know how to read a police report (including how to read a police report between the lines, an often invaluable service). My address is: Kevin Filan 16 Hinds Street Montrose, PA 18801 or I can be reached at CompuServe 71162,2247. Hopefully I'm not pushing you into discussing a topic which makes you uncomfortable--if so just ignore me and I shall do you the same service. I look forward to hearing from you. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Grendel 4 Oct 92 17:27:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Gr) I have yet to see you substantiate any of these oneness claims... I agree--so, in the time honored tradition of ducking the tough questions, let me change the subject and try to give you ANOTHER difference between RHP and LHP groups. As a Setian, I feel no obligation to help my "fellow man" or to live an "altruistic" morality. I don't feel that, should I hurt somebody who gets in my way, that a "threefold law" will zap me, or that "bolts from the blue" will punish me for my sins. (I'm not sure whether you, as Astaru, believe in the "threefold law" or not--as I said, I'm not really sure what you believe). My morality is based on codes of heroism--I avoid hurting innocent people, lying, cheating, and stealing because it's behavior unbecoming a heroic being, not because I feel I owe the innocent something. The reasoning is different, the end results are the same. I have met admirable and, in my opinion, heroic Christians, Wiccans, Jews, Moslems, and Setians. I think I'm learning one thing here--it's very difficult to try to define your religion by way of separation. Perhaps I'd be better served by explaining what the Temple of Set _is_ rather than what it _is not_. As I have said before, I use the word "LHP" in practice to mean groups influenced more by Chaos Magick and Satanism and "RHP" to mean everybody else. It's not intended as a precise description--to try to give it greater precision is, I think, to waste your time. At least that's what I've concluded. I'd be interested in your opinions on this subject. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* p.s. What does "Wassail" mean? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Grendel 4 Oct 92 17:28:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq See my previous reply...I'm sure I haven't answered your questions satisfactorily but I'm doing my best here. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 4 Oct 92 19:32:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq ra> I'll get back to you as soon as I can with the Cenobite ra> rituals. I'm going to Conclave with the Adept in question so maybe ra> I'll get it from him then. Sounds great.... Xeper, /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 4 Oct 92 19:38:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq DB> I didn't know that! Where can you find them? Not around here unfortunately....I know you can order them....but from where, I don't know.... DB> So did the rest of us! Glad you liked it.... Now if you'll excuse me....I have to go shave my feet....}:) Xeper, /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 4 Oct 92 20:13:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Bl> Satanist, but what other differences are there but what is Bl> listed in TOS.SET file? An entirely different set of reading material, different internal structure, basic concepts, goals, etc....The Satanist and Setian and two entirely differently birds....Although you might find many Setians who refer to both terms when describing themselves....largely because 'Satanism proper' may have been a very important factor on their road to the Temple....In fact, in many cases it remains an integral part of one's growth.... Xeper, /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 4 Oct 92 20:14:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Bl> Uh, oh to late! Nothing escapes my eye!!..BWAHAHAHAHA!!.. /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Blaise Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 4 Oct 92 20:53:16 Subject: Set questions UpdReq Trying to grasp the mysteries of Set questions, Blaise inquired of Astral Invader, >Bl> Satanist, but what other differences are there but what is >Bl> listed in TOS.SET file? AI> An entirely different set of reading material, different internal AI> structure, basic concepts, goals, etc....The Satanist and Setian AI> and two entirely differently birds....Although you might find AI> many Setians who refer to both terms when describing AI> themselves....largely because 'Satanism proper' may have been a AI> very important factor on their road to the Temple....In fact, in AI> many cases it remains an integral part of one's growth.... By "Satanism" do you mean what the CoS believes as contrary to what the Setian believes? If so then I didn't make myself clear. To me a Satanist is a person who studies, works with and perhaps worships the Prince of Darkness. Both the CoS and ToS would belong to that category. I understand that the official stance of the Temple is to refer to the initiates as Setians but was it not Satan the Ipsissimus Aquino evoked who gave him the Crystal Tablet? If Set was not Satan Aquino got the wrong guy, didn't he? Just because He wants to be known by another name doesn't change His nature. You see, both you and the Order see the term Satanist as a Christian would the term Fundamentalist. I see the term as generic of all persons who call upon the Prince of Darkness even though their beliefs may vary. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Blaise Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 4 Oct 92 21:28:28 Subject: Set questions UpdReq Trying to grasp the mysteries of Set questions, Blaise inquired of Astral Invader, >Bl> Uh, oh to late! AI> Nothing escapes my eye!!..BWAHAHAHAHA!!.. Eye? One eye?? Dear. A cyclops. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Blaise Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 4 Oct 92 21:41:24 Subject: Set questions UpdReq Trying to grasp the mysteries of Set questions, Deep Black inquired of Astral Invader, >DB> I didn't know that! Where can you find them? AI> Not around here unfortunately....I know you can order them....but AI> from where, I don't know.... Cant you order them from the Peace of Mind? Lewis Meyers might be a little faster though. I would try him first. What are we talking about? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 5 Oct 92 02:03:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Bl> change His nature. You see, both you and the Order see the Bl> term Bl> Satanist as a Christian would the term Fundamentalist. I see Bl> term as generic of all persons who call upon the Prince of Bl> the Bl> term as generic of all persons who call upon the Prince of Bl> Darkness even though their beliefs may vary. Bl> Bl> I think you've raised an important point here. Indeed I would say that both Satanists (LaVey Satanists) and Setians are Satanists in that we choose to explore the darker side of reality. LaVey Satanists would (I believe) claim they are the only "true" Satanists and we are poseurs--many of us would claim the same thing about them. It's sort of on a level with Big Daddy's arguments about who's a Christian on Cult-Info, in my humble opinion. Setians and Satanists are considerably different, however. I think a good analogy would be the difference between a Roman Catholic High Mass and a Fundamentalist Snake Handling Ceremony. Both would fit under the definition of "Christianity" but other than that they wouldn't have much in common. Similarly, we and LaVey's boys may both be "Satanists" but I think there are more differences between us than similarities. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Graham Jenkins Area: Base of Set To: The Sinistar 27 Sep 92 06:25:00 Subject: Hello? UpdReq > Hello out there? Hello in there. > I haven't seen a message in here from a BBS besides Purgatory since > August 30th. DataServe Systems BBS is still alive! > Is the connection still good everywhere? Yep! > -=Sinistar=- Graham 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718