From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 2 Oct 92 07:55:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Bl> Perhaps but not in that example. One doesn't sexually touch a Bl> menstrating woman because you might give her yeast infection. If I remember correctly, it wasn't meant in _just_ a sexual manner. I'll have to re-read Leviticus. I'll get back on this one. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 2 Oct 92 07:57:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Bl> did Ipsissimus Aquino rent it? And how did the Order get Bl> copies Bl> of the 1941 secret German magazine? It was secret even then The High Priest didn't have to rent it. The caretaker gave him the keys and allowed him to explore it at will. A portion of it is now a youth hostel. The archives of the A-SS are on microfilm at the National Archives. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 2 Oct 92 08:00:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Bl> find it amusing to see Satanists talking about high moral Bl> standards. I am not a Satanist. Bl> Tell me. If I pay the $$ to HQ, I will be able to see the Bl> entire Bl> document, but if I dont I cant? If you are a member of the Temple of Set, you may. If not, you may not. A letter saying that you are only joining because you wish to see the CT wouldnt get you in the door. We expect honesty. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 2 Oct 92 13:07:00 Subject: Re: Set questions Rec'd UpdReq ra> wherein he tried to summon the Cenobites of _Hellraiser._ He said he ra> got some interesting results (i.e. alterations in his consciousness). ra> I'm trying to talk him into writing them up--when he does I'll be ra> sure to send a copy of the Purgatory boys. (Keep Astral away from ra> the fishhooks when I do, though....) I'd be anxious to view that....I recently thought about crafting my own cardboard 'puzzle box' to use as a magical implement....I realize there are models that one can purchase, but I thought it would be interesting to make my own....It's funny you should mention the Cenobites.... BTW, I'm editing some things out of that Lycanthropy invocation I mentioned, so it should be up before too long if you're still interested in it....It's nothing extremely fancy, but I enjoyed it.... Xeper, /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 2 Oct 92 13:32:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Bl> What? Didn't you know that the Necronomicon was a phony Bl> grimoire? How could anyone get any real discovery from Bl> something fictional? The _Necronomicon_ may be fictional, but the atmosphere and emotion a 'Cthulian' working can create could be staggering....Whether we create our own texts or have them handed down to us from a mad Arab, makes little difference in subjective reality....The best 'grimoire' is engraved in our minds, and I for one have never considered the outcome of magic to be dependent on how well I could carbon-date my tome.... Bl> Perhaps to you it is but I would put it past Astral Invader Bl> to Bl> say "Oh, look at the pretty skinless baby!". I'll refrain from spewing forth my favorite 'Dead Baby' joke....}:) /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 2 Oct 92 13:49:00 Subject: Re: Necronomican UpdReq PR> Well, I personally believe that the book is a fiction book, that PR> it was just created.... However, just because it is a totally PR> fiction book, doesn't necessarily make me believe that it doesn't PR> work.... I mean, I believe that there are some copies of it PR> that are "cursed" (as in a bad spirit calls that copy - h o m e ). PR> But then again, _Little House On The Praire_ could have problems PR> attached to it too. It think it's an interesing book, and was the result of someone with an intense imagination and a passion for going overboard with things....}:) I don't however think there are volumes that are 'cursed'....I think people that refer to things as being 'cursed' are simply unaware of their own psychical manifestations that they alone are creating subconsciously....A 'curse' is merely a word, but it can be the triggering mechanism for an overactive mind....(In my opinion).... /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Blaise Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 2 Oct 92 06:49:56 Subject: Set questions Rec'd UpdReq Trying to grasp the mysteries of Set questions, Blaise inquired of rakshasa, ra> Bl) re. Karma and the Nixon Administration ra> Yes, I agree. But Ronald Reagan had his lackeys steal one ra> of Jimmy Carter's briefing books so as to give him an unfair ra> advantage during the debate. His Vice-Presidential candidate, ra> George Bush, set up the "October Surprise," or made a deal with ra> the Iranians; don't release the hostages until we win the ra> election and we'll give you weapons. His "Contragate" affair ra> was every bit as illegal and unethical as Nixon's Watergate ra> screwup. And yet Reagan, who in my humble opinion wasn't half ra> the president Nixon was, managed to escape all of these charges ra> relatively well. ra> How do you explain Karma here? Do you think Regan caught flack because of the both the Contra and the Iranian affairs? And look what he did for Iraq; supplying them military advice via the U.S. satellites. He got his there. He, because of that, had to face public humiliation and to apologize. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 2 Oct 92 18:15:00 Subject: Re: Necronomican UpdReq Simon was the alleged "editor" of the Avon version of the Necronomicon. (He made everything up, really). I was intrigued by your comment about evil spirits calling certain copies of certain books "home." Would you care to comment more on that? I would be interested in seeing any examples you may have of demonic infestation of a book, house, etc.. As far as the high school kids go: I haven't yet seen anything that made me suggest that adolescents are killing for Satan in any significant numbers--or in any numbers, period. I know the story of Shawn Sellars (sp.), the Oklahoma teenager who allegedly killed a few people for Satan, and of the teens in New York who reportedly tortured and murdered a person in a Satanic ritual. These people, in my humble opinion, are psychopaths; they chose Satanism as the way to express their psychosis. Were it not for stories of "devil worship," they would most likely have copied Jack the Ripper or some other such unpleasant character from history. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Reuben Radding 2 Oct 92 18:17:00 Subject: Re: C.O.S. questions UpdReq Thank you for your attention to my questions. A letter will be forthcoming--I shall most certainly avail myself of your knowledge regarding the Church of Satan. Xeper, Remanifest, Shemhamforash, etc. Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 2 Oct 92 18:31:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq BL) I have never heard that one conjures demons of whose existence one is not sure (not an exact quote here) Aleister Crowley alludes to this in _Magick in Theory and Practice_. What I am interested in are results. And I would not say that the demons do not "exist;" what I would question is whether they exist in the same sense that you exist or I exist or a rock exists. If they are archetypes or parts of the buried subconscious mind, they nevertheless behave as independent entities--for that reason they should be treated as such. Speculation about their nature is of necessity just that; if they are genuine entities or mental constructs is a question which we cannot answer at present. What we can know is that they are often effective tools to use in a conjuration. BL) With that attitude one could conjure up Bob. Or Santa Claus. First of all, Bob is real. Praise "Bob!" Secondly; indeed one could. I can imagine bringing up the spirit of jolly old St. Nicholas if I needed to perform a money spell, for example. I'd set up my ritual chamber with Christmas decorations and repeat certain invocations and wait for the presence of Santa. (Of course, knowing my lifestyle, I'd be likely to end up with a shovelful of coal on my altar, but that's another story). I think the above ritual could be very effective in getting me what I wanted. I've mentioned a friend's attempt to bring up the Cenobites of Hellraiser--anything that has emotional meaning to you can be the focus of a magic ritual. I'm not that interested in metaphysical speculation; what I care about is the result of a ritual, and how to repeat my success, not how that came about and how many angels can dance on the head of my wand. BL) I thought you would lie back and let the demons work for you. The amount of work (for me at least) required to bring up a demonic force (of whatever nature, objective or subjective) and to control it is such that I choose to call on this kind of magic only at last resort. Besides that, it tends to set up a chain reaction. That is; I want the girl so I call up a demon to make her fall in love with me; I can't afford to keep the girl in the style to which she's accustomed to I call up a demon to get me more money; I'm worried about our relationship so I cast another love spell; she leaves me for her old boyfriend and I cast a curse at him...etc...etc...etc... I prefer getting things the old fashioned way; by earning them (or stealing them if no one's looking...) Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: A.j. Drew 2 Oct 92 18:44:00 Subject: Re: Drugs and Spirituality UpdReq Hello, Mad Monk! First: I haven't found any good use for hallucinogenic drugs in my magical development. I have experimented a bit with LSD; I found it made it easier to slip into a meditative state but harder to concentrate. Since magical rituals require concentration at least as much as meditation, I would say for me LSD is going to remain that stuff that makes Grateful Dead shows so much fun...not a magical tool. The alterations in consciousness one can attain easily enough without the use of drugs. Why take the risks inherent on dropping strychnine-laced acid, poisonous mushrooms, or anything else when you can get the same effect with only a tiny bit more effort? The government's War on Drugs is another story, of course. You'll note that through this whole spiel I have said _I_ don't choose to use drugs for magickal purposes. If someone else does then more power to him/her. The War on Drugs is just a way of chipping away at our civil rights by setting up a new spectre to replace Communism--drug abuse. I think it's a crime that alcohol (a drug which is every bit as deadly as crack) and tobacco (enough said) can be purchased in every state, while a gentle and relatively harmless drug like marijuana can get a casual smoker sent to prison. I don't just believe drugs should be legal in religious ceremonies--I think they should be legalized, period. What I put in my body -- be it caffeine, alcohol, marijuana, or a penis -- is none of the government's business. Laws against drugs are, to me, on a par with the sodomy laws. They don't stop the behavior they set out to vanquish; they just turn a whole class of society into criminals. I'm a recovering alcoholic and don't choose to drink. I don't choose to make alcohol illegal--although I must say that, if it's logical to make crack cocaine and heroin illegal, it's at least as rational to illegalize alcohol and nicotine. The War on Drugs is a War on You. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 2 Oct 92 18:46:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Dear Astral: I'll get back to you as soon as I can with the Cenobite rituals. I'm going to Conclave with the Adept in question so maybe I'll get it from him then. And I'm looking forward to checking out your lycanthropy ritual. The moon will be full in about a week...heheheheheh Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 2 Oct 92 18:49:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Bl) He (Reagan) because of that had to feel public humiliation and to apologize... I doubt that was a very stern punishment. For one thing, I doubt Ronnie remembered what he was apologizing for twenty minutes after he got off camera. Secondly, I don't think his humiliation is anything like the humiliation suffered by Nixon--Reagan didn't become a laughingstock to much of the country, at least not until after he was out of office. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Blaise Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 2 Oct 92 17:45:18 Subject: Set questions UpdReq Trying to grasp the mysteries of Set questions, Blaise inquired of Deep Black, >Bl> find it amusing to see Satanists talking about high moral >Bl> standards. DB> I am not a Satanist. How are you different than a Satanist? From what I gather the Order of Set broke off from the Church of Satan and members now call themselves Setians to differ themselves with Satanist, but what other differences are there but what is listed in TOS.SET file? >Bl> Tell me. If I pay the $$ to HQ, I will be able to see the >Bl> entire >Bl> document, but if I dont I cant? DB> If you are a member of the Temple of Set, you may. DB> If not, you may not. A letter saying that you are only joining because DB> you wish to see the CT wouldn't get you in the door. We expect honesty. Will I have to go to California to be initiated to join? (Oh, by the way the money question was to see if the Temple was in it for the money as the Frosts were). 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Blaise Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 2 Oct 92 19:29:34 Subject: Set questions Rec'd UpdReq Trying to grasp the mysteries of Set questions, rakshasa inquired of Astral Invader, >ra> wherein he tried to summon the Cenobites of _Hellraiser._ He said he >ra> got some interesting results (i.e. alterations in his consciousness). >ra> I'm trying to talk him into writing them up--when he does I'll be >ra> sure to send a copy of the Purgatory boys. (Keep Astral away from >ra> the fishhooks when I do, though....) AI> I'd be anxious to view that.... Uh, oh to late! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rex Irae Area: Base of Set To: Grendel 2 Oct 92 01:04:12 Subject: caring less UpdReq -=- Grendel imparted this unto Deep Black -=- Gr> Then what is the point? I take it that the belief thereof isn't the most important thing, that the liberty of the mind is what is important. Of course, if this is the case, one needn't adopt Set as a patron force. _ _ / psychosis. Were it not for stories of "devil r> worship," they would most likely have copied Jack r> the Ripper or some other such unpleasant r> character from history. Everybody needs a hobby! };-) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Rakshasa 3 Oct 92 08:32:52 Subject: Re: Drugs and Spirituality Rec'd Sent UpdReq r> The War on Drugs is a War on You. Indeed! One of many, many actions/entities designed to maintain the status quo, primarily by discouraging/punishing individuality. Many others such as the IRS, draft registration, Sunday School, etc. come easily to mind.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Rakshasa 3 Oct 92 08:37:12 Subject: Coenobite Rituals Rec'd Sent UpdReq r> Dear Astral: r> r> I'll get back to you as soon as I can with r> the Cenobite rituals. I'm going to Conclave with r> the Adept in question so maybe I'll get it from r> him then. I would very much like to see these. Have you seen any issues of "Dread" (the Clive Barker fanzine) or of Coenobium, another nicely developing zine? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 3 Oct 92 12:47:26 Subject: Re: Zeena LaVey Rec'd Sent UpdReq Ayn Rand was a great (albeit unacknowledged) influence on Anton LaVey--his Nine Satanic Statements come almost verbatim from Rand. I haven't read Ayn Rand lately myself--it's tough to get the time to commit yourself to a 1,000 page novel. I count her as one of my major influences towards Setianism and LHP magic. I've often wondered what would happen if I did one of Crowley's Jugorum exercises (the one wherein you are to take on the personality of another individual) and became John Galt for a while. The results would be interesting, I think. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: The Sorcerer (Sysop) 3 Oct 92 12:51:26 Subject: Re: Base of Set? Sent UpdReq Basically First Degree membership in the Temple of Set entails committment to a pretty serious amount of study, along with a promise not to allow your materials to be photocopied (we've had some nasty experiences with people getting hold of our stuff, then misquoting it to prove we're "Nazis," "fascists," "child molesters," etc.) and a promise that, as a Setian, you will present yourself to the world in a positve light. You aren't required to believe in Set as an objective entity or to accept all of Michael Aquino's political beliefs or give up your firstborn child or anything like that. If you're interested, you can write to Temple of Set, P.O. Box 470307, San Francisco CA 94147 and they'll send you an introductory letter which will better explain the rights and responsibilities accorded to you as a Setian. If you find yourself in disagreement with the principles espoused in that letter (and cannot get an explanation for them which proves satisfactory to you) then I would recommend you save your money and time and pursue other avenues. If, on the other hand, you find yourself in basic agreement with the arguments as presented, you might want to consider investing in a membership. I recommend it highly, but of course I'm biased. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 3 Oct 92 12:57:54 Subject: Re: Necronomican Rec'd Sent UpdReq CN) Everybody needs a hobby. Indeed...I've just taken up cooking...maybe I can have you for dinner some night. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Kevin T. "Hannibal Lecter, M.D." Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 3 Oct 92 12:59:14 Subject: Re: Drugs and Spirituality Rec'd Sent UpdReq CN> Indeed! One of many, many actions/entities CN> designed to maintain the status quo, primarily by CN> discouraging/punishing individuality. Many others CN> such as the IRS, draft registration, Sunday School, CN> etc. come easily to mind.... I find it interesting that the drug war has been going on for some time now--and there's little to show for it. I used to work in a law office--my boss owned a fleet of trucks as well. We had to send the D.O.T. pisstest results on all our drivers, as does every other fleet owner/operator. Yet, to the best of my knowledge, this has not resulted in any noticeable decline in the amount of accidents involving tractor-trailers. Of course, the Drug War isn't about logic; it's about images. (Children being tempted by pushers who hang out in schoolyards, black men raping your wife and taking your stereo to buy crack, rich Hispanics moving into your neighborhood as a result of "drug money," etc., etc.) What I find most depressing is that so few have realized this; the majority of Americans are eating up this "War on Drugs" horseshit lik it was cotton candy. They really believe their children are at great risk and that American society is on the verge of collapse as a result of drug abuse. Why hasn't anybody compared the War on Drugs statements (i.e. Andrew Young's "This is a war on drugs and in a war you have to suspend some civil liberties") with the statements made forty years ago when we were busy fighting the "Bolsheviks" at our doorstep? Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Oz Tech Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 28 Sep 92 19:28:58 Subject: RE: Seeking Music Info Rec'd UpdReq Thanks. One of the odd things in my tape collection is a prerecorded tape by Vangelis I found in a discount bin. The title is _Dragon_ and the cover art consists of a painting of Cthulhu rising out of the ocean as in _The Call of Cthulhu_. The title piece, _Dragon_, is pounding electronic jazz, which is not quite appropriate for Lovecraftian Workings but interesting anyhow (like Zappa's _Jazz from Hell_). Sometimes I wonder about Vangelis; I think he also played on the album _666_ many years ago, long before the era of "New Age" music. At the moment I use Prescott's _Walking in Slow Circles_, Nocturnal Emission's _Spiritflesh_, Conrad Schnitzler's album of electronic weirdness on Unitron Records, and selected cuts from Psychic TV's _Descending_ and _Towards Thee Infinite Beat_. Oz 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Oz Tech Area: Base of Set To: Markie Chao 28 Sep 92 19:32:48 Subject: RE: Seeking Music Info UpdReq No, I don't subscribe to "Black Flame"--it just doesn't look right alongside "Technology Review" and "Communications of the ACM" in my magazine rack--but that's interesting; I'll see what I can learn about Storm Productions and Cthulhu Records from one of my German contacts. Thanks much! Oz 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Oz Tech Area: Base of Set To: Lewis Cypher 28 Sep 92 19:35:44 Subject: Touched by... UpdReq Come with me, to the sands beneath the starry night and cast your gaze upon the polar star, a dragon's pearl and axis of the sky. There are the powers of Darkness, dubbed immortal: suns may rise and set, but these undying ones, to which the devil-led Yezidi turn to pray-- these, to untutored eye, spurn the horizon, signifying night eternal in the lore of Hell. The Void shall find its tongue within your soul, and you shall know: you are alone, there is no god, yet you become, and I shall be as well. Lockyer knew. He marked the northern pole there in the floor plan of my Karnak shrine. Go to the desert: I shall vivisect your soul. Sail angry seas. Or climb, as Perdurabo did, among the crags, where far from blessed flock, mint jelly and the barbecue a proud and canny goat is said to bound. But go! And walk in places where no path is found. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Oz Tech Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 28 Sep 92 23:49:16 Subject: RE: Re: RE: My _Abrasax_ column Rec'd UpdReq Charles, Unfortunately the ToS can't sell it to you. Part of the book is an archive of all the media material ever published about the Church of Satan. To sell it commercially would require getting permission to reprint from dozens of publications--everyone from _Time_ to _Famous Monsters of Filmland_. As it stands, the book is available under the copyright law definition of "fair use", being produced "on a non-profit basis for religious and educational purposes only. It is not for sale to the general public." Distribution is restricted to Setians and the occasional university scholar. Sorry. I'll ask about a public edition but don't hold your breath. Oz 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lewis Cypher Area: Base of Set To: Oz Tech 29 Sep 92 10:46:20 Subject: RE: Touched by... Rec'd UpdReq In a message to Lewis Cypher written on Monday, September 28, 1992 at 19:35:45, Oz Tech writes: OT> Come with me, to the sands beneath the starry night OT> and cast your gaze upon the polar star, OT> a dragon's pearl and axis of the sky. LC> Very nice wordsmithing there. After reading it, I had the feeling of simultanious empowerment/abandonment-the Touch of the Dark One. Thankyou for the gift. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: VITRIOL Area: Base of Set To: The Cultist 2 Oct 92 18:29:06 Subject: Re: Zeena LaVey Sent UpdReq -=> The Cultist sent a message to Elminster on 26 Sep 92 12:17:03 <=- -=> Re: Re: Zeena LaVey <=- TC> Yes, I have a big color picture of her from a seminar I once attended. TC> She is my first and only love. Anyone know where I can get more info TC> on her? * Tiger Beat Magazine? I don't think Duran Duran is around anymore. ... Tilly Lally, the Siptipidist, Aradobo, the Dean of Morocco, 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Base of Set To: Elminster 2 Oct 92 18:37:26 Subject: Re: Is this the SET Echo Sent UpdReq -=> Elminster sent a message to Servant on 29 Sep 92 21:03:08 <=- -=> Re: Re: Is this the SET Echo <=- El> Hardly. I can demonstrate this by taking a .357 with hollow point El> bullets and blowing your brains out the back of your head onto a wall. El> While I have no desire to kill you, the point is clear. What, and deprive some poor lion of his dinner? ... And builds a Hell in Heaven's despite 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: VITRIOL Area: Base of Set To: A.j. Drew 2 Oct 92 18:45:06 Subject: Drugs and Spirituality Sent UpdReq -=> A.j. Drew sent a message to All on 27 Sep 92 11:53:57 <=- -=> Re: Drugs and Spirituality <=- AD> Since things are getting a bit slow around here, I propose we open a AD> new topic. What's the general consensus on the use of psyco-reactive AD> agents for spiritual purposes? How do people feel about the Federal AD> Government's insistance that the use of controlled substances is not AD> protected under the Constitutional right to freedom of religion, even AD> though it did make way for the cerimonial use of alcohol during the AD> prohobition? I presume you are aware that that same government monitors BBS networks, and that this is not a "secure" medium? ... Thel enter'd in & saw the secrets of the land unknown; 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Servant Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 3 Oct 92 08:38:00 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels Rec'd UpdReq ra> those answers. Well, then, I suggest we let God be the judge--and ra> follow Jesus Christ's commandment to "Love One Another." True. BUT, God also says that homosexuality is a sin... thus is the reason I stated that before - I follow my Lord's Commandments. I do NOT hate homosexuals - I hate homosexuality... understand? I love the person, but I do not love the "sin" (if you will)... Just Like if I smoked - God does not hate me, he hates that I smoke... which to me would be destroying the temple of God since YOU are the temple, and smoking can hurt you. Understand? =) In NO WAY does God hate homosexuals, he hates the sin. That is why it is WRONG for FAG BASHERS or whatever you call em' to make fun of homosexuals. ra> the Christian paradigm. I won't even take it personal if you tell me ra> I'm a sinner; according to your laws, I am. Like you said, let God be the judge of that! It is not the time nor the place nor my intentions to judge people... unless I feel obligated to. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Servant Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 3 Oct 92 08:40:00 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels Rec'd UpdReq ra> that, then you are walking in Christ's footsteps, and He will forgive ra> you for any stumbling as a result of your weakness or human frailty. What do you mean "he will forgive you for any stumbling..." If you LOVE your neighbor, that (to me) does not mean "Okay, God said, LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR, now I can become a homosexual..." Is that what you mean?? ra> thoughts--I'm far from an expert on Christianity and feel like I'm ra> treading in some deep and unfamiliar water here. That is one thing about Christianity, my friend. Once you are in its waters, you are always welcome! =) God Bless! Jeff 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Sinistar Area: Base of Set To: Tony Iannotti 3 Oct 92 08:55:00 Subject: Re: Hello? Rec'd UpdReq TI> Yep, that way things fomr you get into pods same night, and things TI> from them get to you same night too. I do the same with them, and at TI> 14,400, it's not too outrageously expensive. 93, X&R! It's great, isn't it? -=Sinistar=- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Blaise Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 2 Oct 92 21:15:12 Subject: C.O.S. questions Rec'd UpdReq Trying to grasp the mysteries of C.O.S. questions, Reuben Radding inquired of rakshasa, ra> Xeper, Remanifest, Shemhamforash, etc. ra> Rakshasa ra> aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* Tetragramaton, Agla, in hoc signo vinces, sempter fideles, per astra ad astrum, corpus stelecti, coitus interuptus Blaise 0* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Blaise Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 3 Oct 92 09:40:44 Subject: Necronomican Rec'd UpdReq But what is the file name? Also I can see from your echoes that you perceive ceremonial magick as a method of psychological exploration. The thought never struck me that it could be used as a tool to explore the self. Thank you for that understanding. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 3 Oct 92 16:31:00 Subject: Re: Harassment (800 #) Rec'd UpdReq Bob Larsen could get a listing of people calling an 800 number because 800 numbers aren't free--Bob's picking up the tab. As a result he gets the listing of who called--that is, whose calls he's paying for. If somebody really did call in with a serious death threat, all he would have to do would be to take down the time/date of the call, then report it to the proper authorities when the bill came. The fact that he apparently hasn't suggests to me that Mr. Larsen has a martyr complex and is claiming "mine enemies attack me" for the purpose of getting attention (and more money). Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Servant 3 Oct 92 16:38:00 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels UpdReq Se) God also says that homosexuality is a sin. Could you give me some Biblical quotes on that, Jeff? I'm aware that in the Old Testament it says "If a man shall lay with another man let them both be put to death." However, it says a lot of things in the Old Testament which we don't pay much attention to anymore; doesn't Christ's new Covenant succeed the old one, which was based upon law. The Apostle Paul also has some comments, in Galatians or Colossians, regarding sexual immorality. However, Paul is not God. In your religion Christ is seen as the son of God--Paul is seen as a man. He may be a brilliant man (certainly he was a mind on a par with Augustine of Hippo) but he is a man nonetheless, and thereby subject to error. Origen, another early Christian, castrated himself to follow literally the injunction "If your eye offend thee, cut it out." We don't do that today. The words of Paul are the words of a Jewish noble responding in shock and disgust to a different culture; they are not the words of Christ. We've got to consider this--according to the Gospels, Jesus Christ personally had the below to say about homosexuality: Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Servant 3 Oct 92 16:46:00 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels UpdReq Se) If you love your neighbor that does not mean (to me), "O.K., God said love your neighbor, therefore I can become a homosexual." What it means to me is that, should I feel love for someone, and should I wish to express that love, I am not concerned about things like gender. What I was getting at was that, in my opinion, Christ is probably far more concerned about shallow, loveless heterosexual relationships than he is about committed, loving homosexual ones. Love seems to be the key here. If you love, then God will forgive you; that's what I was trying to say. Sex at its best is a way of expressing love; at its worst it drags the human down into the realm of the purely animal. I would suspect the "immorality" which Paul found so disgusting was the immorality of sex for mere pleasure, with no concern for one's partner and no emotional attachment. That type of sexual behavior cheapens everybody involved. (As a non-Christian, I have no qualms about sex for pleasure--it sure feels a lot better than a sharp pencil in the eye. I do have qualms about using others by taking advantage of their emotional vulnerability, or about a mindset which looks at other people as bodies, without considering the unique psyche). Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 3 Oct 92 16:47:00 Subject: Re: C.O.S. questions UpdReq Bl) Tetragrammaton, Agla, In Hoc Signo Vinces, etc... Well, you sure said it all, except for one thing... Where's the PRAISE "BOB"!!!!!!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 3 Oct 92 16:52:00 Subject: Re: Necronomican UpdReq I'm not sure of the file name. A Priest of Set and I have been corresponding on the topic of Ceremonial Magic for self-investigation. When we discover our strengths and weaknesses, and work to augment our strengths and conquer our weaknesses, the need for sorcery becomes minimal at best. Look at it this way: I can perform a money ritual and win a bit of cash in the lottery. Lacking control of my spending habits, I will likely run through it and soon be as broke as I was before. Or I can discover why I'm always short of money, work to correct that problem, and wind up with more money than I had before--and know how to use it. That's the difference between sorcery and self-improvement. It's the old "give a man a fish or teach him to fish" deal. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 3 Oct 92 21:27:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Bl> DB> I am not a Satanist. Bl> How are you different than a Satanist? From what I gather Bl> the Order of Set broke off from the Church of Satan and Bl> members now call themselves Setians to differ themselves with Bl> Satanist, but what other differences are there but what is Bl> listed in TOS.SET file? I can, of course, only say for myself at my present level of understanding. I recognize the fact that many Setians do indeed consider themselves Satanists. Many years ago I did consider my self one (sort of; in retro- spect it was more youthful rebellion. However, I do recognize its value in the use of LBM and also (for those who find it necessary) as a "hammer", if you will to break up accretions acumulated in growing up in certain circumstances. I also want to add that the membership of certain ex-members of the Church of Satan formed _a different entity_ in the Temple of Set. It really has, in my view, very little in common with the COS. Bl> Will I have to go to California to be initiated to join? Oh no! The First Degree is yours when you are accepted into the Temple. You include the money order in letter of application, or you may write them first and wait until they notify that you are acceptable and then sent in the money order. In any event, it is returned expediently if it is sent with your application. The only real basis for rejection is joining for frivilous reasons or membership in another organization with principles contrary to the Temple. For instance, Fundamentalist Christians need not apply! }:D Bl> (Oh, by the way the money question was to see if the Temple Bl> was in it for the money as the Frosts were). Yeah, Gavin and Yov-./ (whatever)......are fixtures in the small print ads, huh? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 3 Oct 92 21:33:00 Subject: Re: Canton, Ohio Rec'd UpdReq CN> Agreed. The only reason I rarely call is that (as far as I know) CN> Tulsa is still not PC Pursuitable.... I don't know if it is or not. (-=Sinistar=- Do you know?) Since I get everything local, I only visit other boards rarely. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: The Sorcerer (Sysop) 3 Oct 92 21:44:00 Subject: Re: Homosexuals in your scho UpdReq TS> single one of your high school comrades? No. Even if they said that TS> they despise homosexuality, chances are they don't. Chances are they are scared of parts of their own sexuality. (put it a paper bag, PUT IT IN A PAPER BAG!!!) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 3 Oct 92 21:55:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Bl> I heard about Left-hand path magicians was that they like to Bl> conjure demons That is painting with a pretty wide brush! Bl> ceremonial magick of any form. Do Setians ever work with the Bl> Goetia or Enochian Tablets as Crowley did? And how about Bl> grimoires like the 6 & 7 Books of Moses, 8, 9 and 10th Books Bl> of Moses, The Greater Key of Solomon, Grimorum Verum to name Bl> just a few; do you work with those? Bl> Setians are free to incorporate whatever seems to Work for them. I see Enochian being used more than anything else as far as "classical" grimories. Even at this, the system as developed by Dee and Kelly (or later permutations of same) is not adhered to. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Blaise 3 Oct 92 22:02:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq Bl> What? Didn't you know that the Necronomicon was a phony Bl> grimoire? How could anyone get any real discovery from Bl> something fictional? I wont answer for him, but we are all aware that its claims to pedigree are most likely untrue. I can say the same thing about a paradigm I hold in high esteem; the Carlos Castaneda series, for instance. I find it extremely valid for my purposes (for the most part anyway.) Magic is far more dependent on the operator than anything he/she may use as trappings. Bl> I don't understand how you would arrive at these conclusions Bl> though what I perceive is a conjuration. I arrived at those Bl> same conclusions through analysing what "patriotism" is for Bl> example logically. Both are equally valid. No value judgement implied or considered. Ritual is done for two reasons. To change something or to understand something. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Reuben Radding 3 Oct 92 22:20:00 Subject: Re: C.O.S. questions UpdReq RR> you by Setians, who wouldn't know. My views of the Temple have been RR> guided by past and present members, as well as my own judgment of the RR> info provided. Won't you do yourself the same service with regard to RR> the RR> COS? Perhaps you will. As far as the court records; that is a matter of public record, not disinformation from the Temple of Set. Things, at least to me, don't look too good for Anton and the COS as the entity is has been all these years. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: A.j. Drew 3 Oct 92 22:26:00 Subject: Re: Drugs and Spirituality UpdReq AD> How do people feel about the Federal AD> Government's insistance that the use of controlled substances is not AD> protected under the Constitutional right to freedom of religion, even AD> though it did make way for the cerimonial use of alcohol during the AD> prohobition? I feel that came about because of the "war on drugs" and to forbid Native Americans from the practices of the peyoteros is a gross violation of their civil rights. But hey; its the government! Its not a good idea, its just the law! }:D 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 3 Oct 92 22:28:00 Subject: Re: Set questions UpdReq AI> realize there are models that one can purchase, but I thought it I didn't know that! Where can you find them? AI> BTW, I'm editing some things out of that Lycanthropy invocation I AI> mentioned, so it should be up before too long if you're still AI> interested in it....It's nothing extremely fancy, but I enjoyed AI> it.... So did the rest of us! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 3 Oct 92 22:41:00 Subject: Re: Harassment Rec'd UpdReq CN> Can a person get printouts of callers? I thought that CALLER ID was CN> being battled as an invasion of privacy, whether it be digital CN> readouts that show your caller's number on your phone, or printouts. It was here in Tulsa, but they have it. However, you may press a key after completing your dial that will disable the message packet from the caller end. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Sinistar Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 3 Oct 92 23:52:00 Subject: Re: Canton, Ohio Rec'd UpdReq In a message to Charles Nemo <10-03-92 21:33> Deep Black wrote: DB> DB> CN> Agreed. The only reason I rarely call is that (as far as I DB> know) DB> CN> Tulsa is still not PC Pursuitable.... DB> DB> I don't know if it is or not. (-=Sinistar=- Do you know?) DB> Since I get everything local, I only visit other boards rarely. DB> Nope. Tulsa is not PC Pursuitable.. -=Sinistar=- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Uranus Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 4 Oct 92 00:35:00 Subject: Re: Harassment UpdReq DB> CN> Can a person get printouts of callers? I thought that CALLER ID DB> CN> was DB> CN> being battled as an invasion of privacy, whether it be digital DB> CN> readouts that show your caller's number on your phone, or DB> CN> printouts. DB> It was here in Tulsa, but they have it. However, you may press a key DB> after completing your dial that will disable the message packet from DB> the caller end. What's the key? The Inquisitor Uranus 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718