From: Christeos Pir Area: Base of Set To: Servant 3 Sep 92 19:06:00 Subject: Re: Is this the SET Echo? Sent UpdReq -=> Servant sent a message to rakshasa on 29 Aug 92 12:06:00 <=- -=> Re: Re: Is this the SET Echo? <=- THE XIANS TO THE LIONS!!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: VITRIOL Area: Base of Set To: Lost Soul 3 Sep 92 18:44:26 Subject: Yukio Mishima Sent UpdReq -=> Lost Soul sent a message to VITRIOL on 31 Aug 92 13:55:26 <=- -=> Re: Yukio Mishima <=- LS> But I *AM* my sysop :-) Then maybe your "handle" is more apt than you envisioned! Does this mean you don't get any thelemic echos? There's plenty of electronic-format texts on Thelema that you could f/req. If all else fails, I could send you a disk or two of stuff, assuming you can use 360s or 1.2s (ie, 5 1/4"). ... he would become wise. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: VITRIOL Area: Base of Set To: All 3 Sep 92 18:48:06 Subject: Corn dogs on the echo. Sent UpdReq Apparently, some things never change. ... The nakedness of woman is the work of God. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: Base of Set To: Ishmar VanHolden 5 Sep 92 11:41:44 Subject: Kingfisher Sent UpdReq No, dearest sweet, a Kingfisher is a bird that eats fish but is still not a sea-gull nor an albatross...... >ALBATROSS!<.... Get it on a stick! Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Star*fire Area: Base of Set To: Servant 1 Sep 92 20:15:14 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Servant to rakshasa <=- ra> If you look at most fag-bashers, you'll find that they are closet ra> homosexuals themselves; they merely externalize their self-hatred and ra> beat up people they perceive as "queers" or "lezzies." Se> Se> Interesting perspective there rakshasa... ra> IMHO, every person is born bisexual...they are conditioned ra> against accepting this part of their life by society. Bisexuals, I Se> Se> I have to disagree, there. I believe EVERYONE is born straight, and Se> then it is there decision on what to be and who to love, etc. I do Se> not agree with these pre-natal (is that the word? before birth) Se> homosexuality/bisexuality crud... First let me ask you this, are you an xtian? 2nd It has been proven in theory that homosexuality is in the brain, I've known I was gay like Rakshasa knew he was bi. Nothing wrong with either. You believe everyone is born "straight" what do you base your belief on. Star*fire ... Nobody notices when things go right. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Star*fire Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 1 Sep 92 20:18:30 Subject: Re: Is this the SET Echo? Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting rakshasa to Mystic <=- ra> I think of it as whipping a dead horse. ra> Xeper, Remanifest and good luck with your recovery! ra> Rakshasa (a recovering alcoholic) ra> aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* Ain't that the truth ... Programmers get overlaid! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ken Anderson Area: Base of Set To: Servant 2 Sep 92 20:54:60 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Servant to rakshasa <=- Se> No, no, my friend... you have gotten it all mixed up. I was just Se> curious as to why your were bisexual and why Ken Anderson was Se> homosexual... since I am a Christian, I have never actually be around Se> people who practice this lifestyle, so I was wondering why you chose Se> it... just curious... Why am I homosexual? Why are you straight? Again, it is one of the mysteries of the world, why some one is homo- sexual and why some aren't. Let my try to explain. I was born normaly, nothing traumatic, my mother didn't drop me on my head or nor did my father sit on me. I have a very rather butch(staright) sister and a married younger brother, both straight. My father has alcoholic tenedencies, he was abusive (verbaly) towards all three of us. I knew when I was younger and my friend rubbed his genitals against my leg in the locker room at school it turned me on. I could've been a woman in my previous life. I could be POSSESED by the demon of homosexuality.(your terms) or its in the genes. There really is no explanition, I AM all that I AM. Ken 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Triple Six 31 Aug 92 16:21:00 Subject: What? UpdReq hi, >>> and the same for Lwob Citsalp, Keeper of the Seal. TH> (...) i've never heard of lwob citsalp... T6> You've never heard of _plastic bowls_? oops. i found out already.... and used the origin in some echoes here in austria. (the netmails asking "which magic system was that" were quite funny, i thought) cu t/h 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Triple Six 31 Aug 92 16:20:00 Subject: Tech problems (again!) UpdReq hi 666!, nice to read from you again. > The rest of us here in Tulsa are alive and kickin'. I think it's just > a matter of time before Lady Byron and Balanone reappear as well. good - i enjoy reading both their messages very much. (i got your message with a LOT of delay this time, though) cu t/h 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Phule 31 Aug 92 16:17:02 Subject: Zenarchy UpdReq > I got mine from Loompanics. > Zen w/o Zen masters is by Camden Benares > Zenarchy is by Kerry W. Thornly > I can probably find the publishers address if you need it. thanks - i'd really appreciate it. i tried to have it ordered from here, but no banana... a lot of my (mag and non-mag) friends have heard about htat catalogue but no one has seen it yet - it's talked about alsmost in the same whispering, mystical tones as the necronomicon :-) cu t/h 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 31 Aug 92 16:13:02 Subject: Gnostic gospels UpdReq > No, I believe what the BIBLE says - the WORD of GOD. Homosexuality > is a SIN. stick it in your ass, jeff. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: The Sinistar 31 Aug 92 16:12:04 Subject: The moderator speaks... UpdReq > This echo is for the discussion of anything related to the Left-Hand > Path/Darker side of Magick. Satanism, Setianism, Chaos, LeVayism, > O.T.S., Radio Werewolf, Temple of the Vampyre, H.P. Lovecraft, etc. uh, what's radio werewolf? i mean i was involved in a pirate radio around here for a while, but this sounds even more exciting... > (...) but I WILL NOT stand for any Christian "brainwashing" crap in > here. We don't care to hear it. > Anyone have any comments? yes - F I N A L L Y. THANKS, CONGRATS. cu t/h 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Whoever is interested... 31 Aug 92 16:12:04 Subject: Templeton Hyde UpdReq Pale> were you the one from CoS (BoS)......... just in case anyone's intersted, i am not afffiliated with any group right now. i have, however, applied to the IOT for novice-ship. the non-dogmatic, personalized view of magic fits my own way best; and i am definitely more interested in LHP or Satanist material than "white" techniques. the few IOT (or ex-R.IOT) magicians i know are the most sane and nicest magicians i have met so far in europe. still, as far as i have seen (read) in here, the ToS seems to hold similar views to the IOT as far as the approach to magic is concerned (whatever you think feels right - do it!) Any comments? cu t/h 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: The Sinistar 31 Aug 92 16:10:06 Subject: Setianism / Chaoism? UpdReq hi, thanks for your reply; i have in the meantime downloaded a lot of material from most of the mailboxes in this echo and am now trying to get an more detailed & clear picture of the Temple. > The Temple has no offical statement or policy regarding Chaos magick. > Each initiate is welcome to study whatever they feel will further > their Xeper. i like that policy... cu t/hyde 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: all 31 Aug 92 16:09:06 Subject: The Satanic Bible UpdReq > _The_Satanic_Bible_). this book keeps getting mentioned all over the echo, but i have been unable to find it here... the only semi-esoteric bookstore here carries stuff like joseph murphy's books (urgh), things like "how to become happy by bying expensive crystals" etc; and the other bookstores have - at best - german versions of the necronomicon (which i have already) and some Bardon stuff (which is not for me). could anyone please tell me if it's possible to mail-order The Satanic Bible? cu t/h 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: all 31 Aug 92 16:09:08 Subject: The Satanist's Politicks? UpdReq hi, DV> And why _shouldn't_ a newcomer to the tiny above-ground Satanist DV> subculture try to be friendly with both groups (especially if said DV> newcomer, unlike myself, _doesn't_ have strong disagreements with DV> LaVey's political views)? being friendly with several magickal organisations? - i see no problem there, esp. since i am myself a "newbie" in magick. and 'friendly' with bith the IOT and the ToS, for example. i would, however, not apply to more that one organisation for membership; if i deemed another group to be better for my Xeper than my current group i'd have to leave my current order/group first. [one possible exception might be POEE, but that's another story... :-) ] as for LaVey's politcal views - which precisely are his political views? i asked a german CoS member about that and he just answered "the political views any satanist should have". wow, great - satanism precludes an individualist political standpoint? some of the german occultists i've chatted with were quite far gone on the social/darwinistic side, which is the ultra-right-winger's choice here in europe. like virulently opposing any social security, "you can't make it on your own, you don't deserve to live". is that what LaVey thinks any satanist should believe; or is it (shudder) what the big satanist groups really do believe, or was that just some deceited german satanists? things like racial superiority and other crap have crept up occasionally as well during these chats... but then, i have seen discussions in here where things like racial/gender equality were seen as important. could you please tell me more about the ToS's politicks, and about the views of the other more importanbt satanist groups? cu t/h 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Markie Chao 31 Aug 92 16:08:08 Subject: Wiccans/Satanists UpdReq > M> Can anyone tell me why Wiccan folks (in general) are not real fond of > M> Satanists? M> theologically) > I think, judging from my own early experiences with Wiccans, that > many of them believe the same nasty stuff that the xtians believe > about Satanism. quoting from scott cunningham's Book Of Shadows ("SS_BOS.*" on several BBS's) ---------------------------------------------------------------- WORDS TO THE WISE .... O daughters and sons of the Earth, adore the Goddess and God and be blessed with the fullness of life. (......) Run the rites with love and joy, and the Goddess and God will bless you with all thet you need. But those who practise dark magicks shall know Their greatest wrath. Remember that you are of the Wicca. No more do you trod the ways of doubt. (...) -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Those who practise dark magicks shall know Their greatest wrath" sounds like a pretty strong negative attitude to me. I do not know any Wiccans around here (boring austria), but i was told scott cunningham is supposed to be a figure of some authority in the wiccan community... cu t/h 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 31 Aug 92 16:08:10 Subject: Wiccan Ways... UpdReq hi, > Personally, I like some of what I see in Wicca; but most of > it seems to me to be hippie-fantasy-unicorn-crystal polishing crap. that was my impression after having read a lot of "wiccan" poems and songs that sound like pseudopagan versions of Xtian Hymns... and the rituals, which mainly seem to include running around in circles for a while and then slobbing out on honeycakes and mead. if one chooses to believe that, it probably makes one happy... i might quote an IOT writer here, who wrote about how one of his friends had started his Chaos Magick experiments by taking on the belief system of a radical born-again xtian for a while... he wrote (quoted from memory) "that friend of mine is still a born-again xtian, but he does seem happier"... that (to me) means if one wants to believe in wicca and start running in happy little circles widdershins or deosil, that's fine... but a) i don't see any benefit in it for me and b) it seems to be "merely" a fairly nice replacement for hanging around in a church and doing the happy rituals there... which is what one gets from somne xtian sects as well, i guess. > Unfortunately, I think many Wiccans want the benefits of Christianity > (that is, that good feeling that there's Someone Out There looking > out for them) without the Rules which Christians have to follow. but - i figure - with their own set of rules? > As a result, they've created an eviscerated Christianity which lacks > even the shreds of logic which the original religion had and which > serves only to give granola-chompers an excuse to run about naked > through the woods. that was exactly the impression i had about a lot of these 'nature-religion' groups. scott cunningham's preachings, for example, make me want to be sich mostly... or to parody them viciously. "oh children of the god and goddess, praise nature" and all that. yuck. > If I pissed you off...just doing my job. :-) > Rakshasa cu t/h 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: all 31 Aug 92 16:07:10 Subject: Discordian Opening Ritual UpdReq here's a nice (though slightly silly, but who cares) ritual which i thouroughly enjoy every time i do it... --------------------------------------------------------- (by Prince Prance; taken from: Phil Hine, "Condensed Chaos", Phoenix Publications/Chaos International) 1. Clap x 5 2. The Erisian Cross: "Light in my head Fire in my genitals Strength at my Right side Laughter at my Left side Love in my heart." 3. Trace Spiral Pentagrams* at the 4 quarters & zenith 4. Face East: "Blessed Apostle Hung Mung1, great Sage of Cathay, Balance the Hodge and Podge and grant us equilibrium." 5. Face South: "Blessed Apostle Van Van Mojo2, Doctor of Hoodoo and Vexes, Give us the Voodoo Power and confuse our enemies." 6. Face West: "Blessed Apostle Sri Syadasti3, patron of psychedelia, Teach us the relative truth and blow our minds." 7. Face North: "Blessed Apostle Zarathud4, hard-nosed hermit, Grant us the Erisian doubt, and the constancy of Chaos." 8. Look up (or down): "Blessed Apostle Malaclypse5, Elder Saint of Discordia, Grant us illumination and protect us from stupidity." 9. Look all over the place: "Great Goddess Discordia, Holy Mother Eris, Joy of the Universe, Laughter of Space, Grant us Life, Light, Love and Liberty and make the bloody magick work!" 10. "Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!" Notes: * The spiral pentagram is made up by curves and seems to have been developed (or whatever) by Phil Hine. Simply take the 5 points and trace curves (facing outward) between them; forming "petals". i find it quite a bit more difficult to visualize than the normal pentagram; Eris doesn't seem to particularly care which i use... The spiral pentagram can be very pretty if you have it spinnning (tunnels etc); to get rid of it afterwards i stop the spinning and do a normal pentagram over it. but then, i don't use the spiral pentagrams too often... 1. Hung Mung is the Discordian link to the Chinese Mysteries and it is none other than he who devised the Sacred Chao. He is patron of the season of Chaos. 2. Dr. Van Van Mojo is a fellow of the intergalactic Haitian Guerillas for World Peace and is Patron of the Season of Discord. 3. Sri Syadasti is the Apostle of Psychedelia and the Patron of the Season of Confusion. 4. Zarathud, a Hermit of medieval Europe, has been dubbed "Offender of the Faith". He is Patron of the Season of Bureaucracy. 5. Malaclypse the Elder is alledged to have been an anciant wiseman who carried a sign bearing the legend "DUMB" through the alleys of Rome, Baghdad, Jerusalem, and some other places. He is the Patron of the Season of Aftermath. ------------------------------ (did i get too far off-topic? anyone have a comment to the ritual?) cu t/h 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: all 31 Aug 92 16:25:14 Subject: ahem... UpdReq sorry for the inflation of messages in here - i just found out that all my messages from the last few weeks have been going into my "boss" node's BADECHO. the reason was my change of address (isn't it NICE to have a "666" in you origin?) bye t/h 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Bill Hartwell Area: Base of Set To: Servant 4 Sep 92 09:04:08 Subject: Sin..... UpdReq -=> Quoting Servant to Rakshasa <=- ra> I guess I would shoot that one at you...is sexual orienttaion ra> without sexual practice necessarily sinful? Se> But, if your sexual orientation was homosexual, wouldn't you practice Se> it? I guess, IF THERE EVER WAS A CASE, if they did not practice Se> homosexuality but had thoughts about men, it wouldn't be a sin. Your Se> thought life can not sin - it is YOUR actions that sin - of course your Se> ACTIONS are brought upon by your thoughts - are they not? Except......according to THEIR BIBLE, Jesus said that the thought is the same as the act. (Paraphrased from memory) Whoever is angry with his brother has committed murder in his heart. Whoever looks upon a woman with lust has committed adultery in his heart. (paraphrase ends) Taken to its logical conclusion, being homosexual, even if you practice lifelong celibacy, is a sin, simply because you lust after men (which, according to the logic of the above paraphrase, is the same as actually having sex with them). Come to think of it, taken to its logical conclusion, the above paraphrase would condemn EVERYONE, even them, to Hell, because strong emotions are a natural part of life, and their "savior" has condemned strong feelings as the moral equivalent of the acts that may come from them. ... All stressed out, and no one to choke. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718