From: Lost Soul Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 12 Aug 92 09:31:14 Subject: Gnostic gospels UpdReq On Wednesday August 12 1992, Thus spake Pale Rider unto Star*fire: PR> How in the world can anyone be turned on by someone with PR> sex organs the same as their own? This is beyond me.... PR> Do you not have goodlooking girls where you live or what? PR> When you see a hot babe of the opposite sex, doesn't it turn PR> you on at all? So, different people's brains work in different ways. Is there something inherently WRONG about it or something? Just because they don't fit into your little picture of what a correct lifestyle should be doesn't mean that they are evil. You need to expand your horizons and realize that other people are NOT you. They don't have to see the world the same as you, or even follow your same beliefs or moral code. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: All 12 Aug 92 16:29:00 Subject: This echo UpdReq I'd like to make a proposal: In order to return this echo to it's original intellectual and enjoyable atmosphere, how many people would be willing to discontinue their arguments with the christian infestation here?.... Certainly I don't mean ignore them completely, but would it not be in OUR best interests to discontinue replying to those persons whose sole intention is to stir shit or cause unnessecary mud slinging contests?... I personally think it's a grand ole idea in that it will give this place the enema it so desperately needs, and will also force these people to consider whether or not they enjoy talking to the walls.... Aye?... /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Lost Soul 13 Aug 92 00:20:00 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels UpdReq LS> So, different people's brains work in different ways. Is there LS> something inherently WRONG about it or something? Just because they LS> don't fit into your little picture of what a correct lifestyle should LS> be doesn't mean that they are evil. You need to expand your horizons LS> and realize that other people are NOT you. They don't have to see LS> the world the same as you, or even follow your same beliefs or moral LS> code. Yes, there is something inherently wrong.... And even if I wasn't a Christian, I would still be against it. I mean, if we were meant to be homosexuals, everyone would be gynanders...... I think that is the word for an animal that has both male and female sex organs and cannot reproduce.......... I mean, the male and female bodies were made for reproduction and sex. If males were meant to screw males, then males should be able to get pregnant too. But this is not the case, because the same sex was never meant to lay with the same sex. It only takes common intelligence, it only takes a kindergardener to realize that man was not meant to lay with man, but man with woman..... I'm outta here... Bye..... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Phule 4 Aug 92 00:12:00 Subject: Zenarchy UpdReq > Hail Eris !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Have you read Zenarchy? or Zen without Zen Masters? nope - and also i haven't been able to find it at the only english-language bookstore in this city. HELP! can you tell me more about it - authors, topic, etc? Xeper & Fnord, Dave 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: The Sinistar 4 Aug 92 00:28:00 Subject: Setianism / Chaoism? UpdReq Hail Eris, > You show your ignorance about my religion in the fact that you assume > I worship A Christian or Hebrew Satan. I do not. But Setians do, or should, accept the notion of there being an actual entity who responds to the name "SET"... right? As I gathered from Diane Vera's column posted here some weeks ago, it is not required of lower-rank members of the Temple of Set to actually believe in a personified version of Set; this is, however, required for the priesthood. Am i correct in my assumptions so far? > You also assume I'm looking for some kind of temporary power. I am > not. I strive to improve my Self. That's also a definition of the "Left-Hand Path", right? I see my own version of Magic(k) in the same way. Not "temporary power", but to improve my _self_. Or _selves_? Would not SELVES be more appropriate...? Of course, this may just be playing with fancy words now, but i consider it important to play/work with my multiple selves, or aspects of my Self (as one could also put it). Any Comments? What's the Temple of Set's view on Chaos Magic, btw? In a discussion on a text from Pete Carroll, Balanone said that some Setian views agree with the Chaoist principles. Would you agree, and to what extent? (Yep, i am very intersted...) All Hail Discordia, T.Hyde 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Gwenny the Pooh 4 Aug 92 11:25:00 Subject: Looking for truth UpdReq > Be> sounds like preaching. GOOD maybe you need some. If you never been > Be> SAVED by the God Almighty. You're missing freedom. Freedom of mind > Be> and body and soul. And I hope that HE speaks through this message to > Be> you. > FREEDOM???? it's amazing how many people seem to preach freedom from inside a cage... cu, t/hyde 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 4 Aug 92 11:55:00 Subject: Gnostic Gospels..... UpdReq > JB> jesus was bisexual. > you. If you know anything about the Bible, I am sure that you > understand that Jesus is the Word of God, and Jesus is the > Word made flesh, and that the Word of God is also the Bible. fundie crap. the bible was written by a lot of very different authors over a very long period of time, with all sorts of politics and other weirdness on their minds... but PLEASE let's not get into yet another bible discussion on this echo here. > This is what the Word of God says, that's what some humans wrote after they thought they'd seen god. might happen to anyone on a good peyote trip, i guess. c-ya, t/hyde 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 4 Aug 92 12:15:00 Subject: homosexuality... Any Comments? UpdReq > "If a man lies with a man as one lies with > a woman, both of them have done what is > detestable. They must be put to death; their > blood will be on their own heads." (Lev. 20:13) so God is in favor of the death penalty for homosexuality? well, it's what the book says... so you gotta believe it or go to hell, if you're a true believer (and, not wishing to insult your severity (sic) of faith, i would assume you are, indeed, a true believer.). that mean you want death penalty for anal sex? "now where's that gun i got last year, i gotta spread the will of god around those pansies... blast them, it's teh lords surpreme will anyway. i am a martyr... right?" -NOT right.- "but it said so in the bible.... i have to kill them to do the lords will" just how would you counter a fanatic like that? he'd keep quoting the bible at you, "proving" that murder is perfectly okay and God's will. what would you answer him? "i know it the bible's meaning is different than what you think it is" is basically what you'd probably have to tell him; he wouldn't (of course) believe you and you'd be quoting the bible at each other for the next few months. each of you would, of course, be perfectly sure he's right... and that is what's been going on in here for the past few months as well: quoting a book to people who have a different opinion. when people keep quoting a book at each other (and both sides "know" they are right), the outcome is going to be a lengthy and boring discussion with no point at all. and no convertees either, on neither side. pale... isn't it more important what YOU think about homosexuality that what your preachers tell you to think? or what you think "the bible says"? I feel it is VERY important to examine one's beliefs, to maybe meditate on the subject or maybe try it oneself and meet people concerned and then: find out WHY one has a certain opinion on that subject... and then, decide if that opinion's still adequate for You, for Your Self or Selves. Gnothi Sauton, Know Yourself. So forget all the bible/you parents/your friends/your preachers say about homosexuality. try to become neutral, non-"knowing" on the subject. forget all of the ugly words for homosexuality and all of the labels you put on homosexuality in your own mind (like "disgusting", "perverted" etcetera...). Don't tell me you've done that, it's a lengthy process to rid oneself of preconceived opinions (but one does get better with practice, as i found out). any of you Setians still reading this message, by the way? what is the Setian view of such "Self-liberating" (as i call them) experiments? i am improvising my own (with some help from Chaos Magic books); is there literature on the subject you'd recommend?) when you've "blanked" your mind of all unjust and preconceived opinions and "knowledge" on the subject, take a good look at anti-homosexual legislature. talk to gay people and accept them as human beings and equals (NOT SINNERS TO BE RESCUED FROM THE FIERY PITS of something). talk to a gay group and see how they relate to each other, see them as equals (no preaching, no condescension). talk to aids victims (no condenscension, no preaching, no "it's god's will"ing). Experiment on your own (very probable) latent homosexual capabilities lying dormant within yourself, and your (probable) fear of it; masturbate with the image of a man seducing you in mind, for example; try to find out why you are afraid (if you are) of your/other peoples' homosexuality. then take another look at what you believed before you started your own learning process ( i would strongly recommend a diary for that purpose) - and why you believed it, and what you believe now after the "experiment". or working? i think you'd find out a lot about yourself if you dared try it, but i think you won't, and for all the wrong reasons. Bye and Xeper, T/Hyde 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Beernut 4 Aug 92 12:17:00 Subject: Frc UpdReq > I can't place the wit and charm > I can't place the wit and charm > /Beernut/ > Reply, If you dare, hehehe you're a nut. buzz off. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Beernut 4 Aug 92 12:23:00 Subject: Worried UpdReq > I was worried what you where going to say I WAS WORRIED ABOUT WHAT > YOUR GOING TO SAY. why? afraid of the voodoo chicken-brain spell? enochian body odour ritual? or rather, the self-inflicted foot-in-mouth curse... inflicted BY YOU on YOURSELF...? > I don't have time to read your litature. why keep whining around in this echo, then? first, you start messages with a lot of fecal language in them all over the board, than you say you're not interested enough to inform yourself about who you're talking to. doesn't that strike you as somehow inappropriate? cu t/hyde 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Frater Almost 4 Aug 92 12:32:00 Subject: Looking for truth UpdReq > Hey. We don't preach to you guys so why can't you all leave our > echoes alone? We don't want to hear it. We have fantastic sex > lives, incredible adventures, neat friends, awesome album > collections, and gnichy pets. We don't need your fundie-bullshit > brain-washed mentality muttering up the works. I once heard an Xtian > (...) that was one of the best messages i've seen in the past few months. i agree fully (only i don't have pets). thanks for that message, it gave a lot of sunshine to an otherwise rainy day :-) (no really, i liked it) cu t/hyde 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Beernut 4 Aug 92 12:35:00 Subject: Looking for truth UpdReq > (..............). And I hope that HE speaks through this message to > you. > God loves you, too > Beernut/ thank god there's such a thing as a "del" key. or, even better: a twit filter.... guess i'll have to get Gold-Ed, that nifty program allows an automatic twit list filter. please stop preaching. t/hyde 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tom Hupfer Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 3 Aug 92 17:56:26 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels UpdReq PR> Jesus was totally clean,[...] Clothes-peg at night, nipped off or dried up? sorry - couldn't resist... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lewis Cypher Area: Base of Set To: Nrrys 12 Aug 92 17:56:00 Subject: RE: Re: correspondence with UpdReq In a message to Frc written on Wednesday, August 5, 1992 at 19:46:04, Nrrys writes: Nrr> FR>the aspirants lack of insight or curiousity that acts as a barrier Nrr> FR>between themself and the "secrets". Nrr> My experience with magick in general has been that most "secrets" are in Nrr> the fledgling magickian's inability to perceive the truth. Those magical Nrr> orders that believe otherwise appear to be "dead-ends" to me... Nrr> May you never thirst! Nrr> NRRYS In my experience, secret material has a function of building power by the process of observing Taboo. Taboo is a technique found in many many magic systems. For example: Think about avoiding fish as a food, as many priests of ancient Egypt did. Now fish was common, and everytime you see it, and not eat it, you reaffirm your magic persona, and make a 'specialness' about your life. This 'specialness' builds great power over time. It is an ovoidance, but also an affermation. Taboo is an easy way tp get a new magician to build specialness in their life. However, too much Taboo leads to obsession, and difficult hurdles later in the magic carrear. See my point? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lewis Cypher Area: Base of Set To: All 12 Aug 92 18:09:02 Subject: Fools and Their Supporters UpdReq You are all being used, I want you to know. This guy you know as Pale Rider is also on another BBS I call. The sub was called 'Magic.' Within one e week, all but a very few messages on that sub were by,to, or about this guy and his christian beliefs. Now I arrive here, and see he is doing the same thing, and you all have fallen for it. 90% of the posts here, from 1-100, are by, for, or about this guy and his christian beliefs. He won't go away, as long as you keep playing his sucker game, and your sub has now become a christian conversation sub. In addition, he is using your names as a refference on those other subs. How long will you alow this guy to destroy your conversation? You need to reel in those hair triggers, and boycott this boy. He is not going away, abuse is just another nail in his cross, so to speak, and he has you all on his trotline, wiggling to his bait. Stop being a 'fish.' In service to you all, I bid you, Hail Satan! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 11 Aug 92 08:11:36 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels UpdReq quoting CHARLES NEMO To: JEFF MCCORD ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ CN}>I don't "believe" in anything. Disbelief is one of the CN}>first tenets of magickal practice. Go ahead -- cite your CN}>"proof" of jesus' existence. Even if he did exist, what CN}>proves all the myths that surround his existence? Have you CN}>got photos? i thought you were going to refrain from debating the unarmed? now if he does have photo's, that would be interesting 93 jonathon * SLMR 2.1a * Coming soon to an echo near you: The Turtle Shell 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Base of Set To: Gwenny the Pooh 7 Aug 92 12:31:06 Subject: Re: Yukio Mishima Sent UpdReq -=> Gwenny the Pooh sent a message to Vitriol on 02 Aug 92 22:11:00 <=- -=> Yukio Mishima <=- GtP> Hadn't even heard of it...what is it's title? "Mishima", for some strange reason. GtP> Please indulge a new baby pagan....what the heck is 93....69 I GtP> understand Shorthand for "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" and "Love is the law, love under will." ... RAAS CHRISTEOS PIR FIFALZ MANIN. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Layman F'ei Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 7 Aug 92 12:33:08 Subject: Re: Looking for truth Sent UpdReq -=> Jeff Mccord sent a message to Frc on 06 Aug 92 11:05:00 <=- -=> Re: Looking for truth <=- FUCK OFF AND DIE, TWERP. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pat McGroin Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 7 Aug 92 18:24:54 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels Sent UpdReq -=> Jeff Mccord sent a message to Jonathon Blake on 06 Aug 92 11:09:00 <=- -=> Re: Gnostic gospels <=- JM> THAT IS THE MOST STUPIDEST QUOTE I HAVE EVER HEARD! Don't you JM> EVER say that Jesus was a bisexual... I do not care if you personally JM> do not believe it. What has happened to everyone? Jesus defiantly JM> said that homosexuals would not make it into the Kingdom. Why would JM> Jesus then be bisexual? THINK ABOUT IT!! DUH DUH DUH! Little child, EVERYONE knows that Jesus liked to slurp the occasional schlong. It's true! Just picture it: that golden halo going up and down as he tries to deepthroat Peter's root down into his adam's apple... Remember, Peter denied him three times before his cock crowed! Don't like it? Offended? Now you know how we feel having to listen to your pathetic peurile regurgitation. Go away until you've learned to think for yourself. Take that other infantile dribbler, Barfbag, Beernut, whatever he calls himself, with you. Either that, or have the balls to post your address, so we can tell your mommy you're playing with her computer again. We'll even throw in some good death-worship literature and devilled baby recipes! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Star*fire Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 13 Aug 92 21:06:00 Subject: Re: Gnostic gospels Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Pale Rider to Star*fire <=- St> go to heaven. I'm GAY and proud of it. PR> PR> How in the world can anyone be turned on by someone with PR> sex organs the same as their own? This is beyond me.... PR> Do you not have goodlooking girls where you live or what? PR> When you see a hot babe of the opposite sex, doesn't it turn PR> you on at all? Girls just don't turn me on. Stop being so bigoted any way, I'm still a human being eveing though I prefer men as my lovers than women. Try it sometime, I was born with it, it's natural though you may not see it that way. I do have many women that are nice looking, but they just don't turn me on. Ok. Homosexuality is one of the biggest mysteries of the universe. It's just meant to be. St> Just you haunting this echo along with Pale Rider says your really St> not St> satisfied with your religon and it sound like you find Satanism, St> Setianism St> exciting. PR> PR> Do you truly believe this type of stuff, or is this just ranting PR> and raving to try to irritate Jeff and I? If you truly believe this PR> type of stuff, you are dead wrong....... I finally witnessed a PR> miracle this weekend at my church, that changed the lives of half of PR> the teen group. I got to witness more power than any "cone of power" PR> has to offer......... The day has finally come that I had been PR> praying for, for the last several years. For the first time, there PR> is a radical core-group (half of the teens) that are ready to change PR> the church around...... This is the reason that I could never PR> become a part of Satanism and the Occult...... If you truly PR> believed the above, you are truly dreaming....... PR> I don't know about Jeff, but there is no way possible that any PR> other religion can offer me more power than I have now....... So you witniessed what you believe as a miracle. I too, when a xtian have witnessed many miracles and I'm glad for you, really I am. I don`t like seeing "self styled" satanists who really aren't satanists do criminal things towards other people. I like people and have no desire to hurt them unless they do something really awful towards me. Minor irritations I take with a grain of salt. As for you and your cohort wanting the exciting world of the occult, I was just going by what I was "told" when a xtian. OK I stand corrected. You have mellowed from the first time I read your messages to now. As for your friend the Conqueror see my next message. But make sure you educate your people with our beliefs. You know enough if you wish to discuss this by phone feel free to to call me at 516-329-3826 by Star*fire 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Star*fire Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 13 Aug 92 21:19:54 Subject: Re: SATAN???? Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Pale Rider to Diane Vera <=- PR> PR> Dear Diane, PR> I was reading some of the recent messages and saw a message between PR> Star*fire and you concerning this message. So, I decided to go back PR> and read the original message. PR> PR> This person is not really an immature Christian, because I know him PR> very well. PR> PR> One reason that he wrote such a controversial message, was to PR> provoke people to write him messages, I think. PR> PR> But, the biggest reason that he is so hostile to those in Satanism PR> and the Occult is because he has been a victim of self-styled PR> Satanists. He has been physically hurt by them a few years past. He PR> still has scars from it. So, he has good reason to be hostile... You PR> have to understand that the reason that so many Christians are so PR> negative to the point of hatred towards Satanists and Occultists is PR> because, many Christians have access to people that have been victims PR> of ritualistic crimes. If Satanists and Occultists want Christians PR> to have a different attitude towards them, they need to put an PR> end to self-styled Satanists, etc..... PR> I know that The Conqueror has been a victim, because I saw his PR> glassy eyes the night after it happened. He hit me because I wanted PR> to see, what they did to him, and he didn't want me to see it, at PR> the time..... The Conqueror is hostile cause he has to live with PR> this type of stuff each day. He is hostile cause he has been PR> experiencing threats again recently....... Probably by the same PR> people, cause he hasn't been able to think of anyone that he has PR> made mad in the last year. Point well taken. Ok so he was messed up by weirdos and has a to summon the strength to overcome what has been put on him. It will take time and support. Understandable and If I wrote the message with any cruel remarks I take them back. Not fully understanding his m.o. behind it all. You do sound like a caring friend, that I don't think anyone in this echo will argue against. Those people want control, not satanism. Controling people are sick and he should go to the police instead of giving into his fear and humiliation. A hard path to tread yes, but he'd feel better once he took back the power over himself that he gave to them or was taken from him by them. (tongue twister) But then think again, some people were abused by those who claimed to be xtians also. People who would literly pound it into their kids and make them feel guilty for living. We're talking about people not religions. Star*fire 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718