From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: Markie Chao 25 Apr 92 20:05:00 Subject: Re: Blood of Jesus UpdReq In a message to Ammond Shadowcraft <04-25-92 11:41> Markie Chao wrote: MC> Isn't anybody going to point out the blood sacrifice in all this MC> Jesus stuff to this guy? Not only blood sacrifice, but cannibalism. There are too many subjects to bring up. Perhaps we need to make a list. B^) I may have a start with a Biblical "Satanic Verses" I got from a friend on Usenet. Still, I don't have reliable ascii upload capability for a long series of replies. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: Markie Chao 25 Apr 92 20:06:00 Subject: Re: bible UpdReq In a message to Ammond Shadowcraft <04-25-92 11:42> Markie Chao wrote: MC> Hey! You're underestimating the best selling book in the publishing MC> world! Don't you know there is mega money in selling these things to MC> the ignorant fools who have to have several copies in their homes? Das right. De gotta'keep up wif de Joneses. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 25 Apr 92 20:09:00 Subject: Re: QUICKIE DEFINITIONS UpdReq In a message to Triple Six <04-24-92 09:52> Pale Rider wrote: PR> TS> The quote was referring to a sexual formula, not a human PR> sacrifice in PR> TS> the mundane sense of the word. Ever heard of the "little death?" PR> PR> Is this clearly stated in the book that it is a sexual formula, or PR> is this something that the followers of Crowley came up with in PR> their deep searches into Crowley's teachings? I don't know about Crowley, but Le Petite Mort is the French (?) term for orgasm. I've had many thousands along with my lovers. It gives new meaning to "I die a little every day." }B^) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 25 Apr 92 20:11:00 Subject: Re: satan UpdReq In a message to Frater Almost <04-24-92 16:58> Jeff Mccord wrote: JM> I am sorry that you had to see that. Jeff, I doubt you are sorry for us. Please don't be a hypocrite any more than you are already. Sold all you have to feed the poor?? Not likely. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 25 Apr 92 20:13:00 Subject: Re: satan UpdReq In a message to Ammond Shadowcraft <04-24-92 17:00> Jeff Mccord wrote: JM> I hope, for your sake, that God isn't true! Hypocrite! You care nothing for us. Sold your house, computer and car (whatever you have, all of it) to feed the poor yet?? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: Diane Vera 25 Apr 92 20:17:00 Subject: Re: satan Rec'd UpdReq In a message to Jeff Mccord <04-25-92 12:32> Diane Vera wrote: DV> Then could you please ask the "Holy Spirit" to teach you some DV> manners? Not damned likely! I say, I say, I decern a spirit of pride in that boy. Here let me lay my hands on ya' Jeff. We need to cast out that demon spirit of pride. you probably got it from reading this echo Jeff. That tell you anything Jeff?? }B^) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: Diane Vera 25 Apr 92 21:09:00 Subject: YHVH as Nature, joining with the mythical Jesus...Rec'd UpdReq > Date: 25-Apr-92 12:38 > From: Diane Vera > To: Balanone > Subj: Re: ToS and "Nature" > I don't see how that result logically follows at all. Moreover, > your statement contradicts the ToS "General Information and > Admissions Polices" document's statement that the goal of merging > one's consciousness with the universe is an "illusion". If union > with the Universe is an illusion for those who in fact seek it, how > can it be an actual result for those (such as Christians) who do > *not* seek it? I think that's a fair question. I'll give my perception and ideas on this issue. Life is chock-full of distinct and crucial inversions and reversals (mostly due to the abstractive powers of the human animal). Christians seek communion (the joining) with their Lord Jesus Christ, (preferably in heaven before all of the 144,000 condos in paradise are sold. B^) One needs only to read Revelations to see where Christian eschatology leads. What's all this stuff about singing at the Lamb's feet and tossing of crowns hither and thither? That's symbolic union. It's evident in reading Scripture that YHVH (letters symbolizing the creative principal) is the supreme God of nature (in the clouds, wind, fire and smoke.) So while writing mythically of being with YHVH as separate individuals (as Revelations intonates) we can interpret the mythic language as a poetic joining to Nature (because we know that Nature is either supreme to YHVH or YHVH is Nature). If Nature is not supreme to YHVH (which appears to be purely an abstraction representing some of the manifestations of Nature) then what is superior to YHVH? Nothing the Christian says (simply because once the question is even halfly answered the mind is released from the quest). That answer will not satisfy the thoughtful individual. Now for the curious inversion part of this reply. All throughout the history of WoMankind we see that humans have the power of deceiving themselves to attain some perceived beneficial end. We look the other way when it's in our best interest to. We choose the lesser of the evils when we know we shouldn't choose at all. (And even though we *choose* to play the game of religion, that game requires us to *forget* we are playing a game.) Imagine yourself in the Dark Ages. A man or woman alone, unprotected from the elements, crime and where even something as simple as a toothache could resolve into many weeks of terrifying pain. THAT'S NATURE. And it's horrible to consider a world where sex easily resolves into the death of the mother as well as the child. All those centuries of pain, suffering and death brought forward to us many of the inverted customs and attitudes toward sex, death and life in general that our culture holds as traditional and true today. But Nature could not be escaped. Thus religions developed to change our *perception* of Nature so that we willfull (through the power of the Gift/Curse) *deceived* ourselves (being unable to escape) and joined with Nature as symbolized in the mythic abstractions of Jesus/Allah/Chishna. Contrast this self-deception with the acceptance promoted by the Jains and we get a good picture of what is going on. In my opinion these inverted customs and attitudes springing from well-meant self-deception are what contorts our expanding, changing culture today. We simply don't need them. Thus I agree with the Temple on these grounds. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Diane Vera Area: Base of Set To: Frater Almost 28 Apr 92 18:31:10 Subject: Re: satan Rec'd Sent UpdReq On April 27, you wrote to Astral Invader "Re: satan": . FA > Just out of curiosuity, do you ever hit on Nuns at amusement parks ior is that just me... "Oooo! Baby! Look at the legs on that penquin! Whew! Hey corgeous, Christ won't mind a little hanky-panky!" It tends to get me thrown out of most places but I do it anyway! ;-) Pax. 93 .So, you get off on being rebuffed? You sound like what we in the S/M scene would call a smart-ass masochist. I think you should get into the scene and get your jollies CONSENSUALLY. I think you need a good spanking.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: Diane Vera 27 Apr 92 08:34:00 Subject: The Setian Edge... UpdReq > Date: 26-Apr-92 17:16 > From: Diane Vera > To: Bobby Meizer > Subj: Arrogant know-it-alls >> On April 25, you wrote to Astral Invader "RE: Re: What is > Satanism?": >> BM > Actually there IS a Setian stereotype (though of course > like all stereotypes it provides an incomplete picture), one > of an arrogant, know-it-all elitist who considers all > disagreement as a personal attack. Unfortunately, a few > Setians I've interacted with did their best to exemplify this > stereotype. >> As someone who has previously commented on this stereotype, I'd like > to add some further observations. It's my impression that Setians > tend to be in some ways more arrogant, but in other ways *less* > arrogant, than other types of occultists. It depends on whom > they're talking to. I ran into this early on and I must admit that at first I was put-off by it. But as time went on and I developed a real friendship with Oz Tech I came to understand why I was feeling the way I was. I had several private run ins with Ipsissimus Aquino, but came to understand that his attitude was a result of his long years of military and magickal experience (where performance is *awarded* with titles and recognition). In essence the problem was mine. I suspect that most of those who respond negatively to the attitude may be suffering some problem with authority. Why? Because interfacing with the Temple is not required by non-Setians. If they don't like the "edge" they get from Setians they sure as hell don't have to deal with Setians. But trying to socially castrate the Temple solely because the members wear their titles and recognitions well, seems at best, an irrational reaction to titles and recognitions. However I will readily agree that it takes time and experience to learn to wear those titles and recognitions well. > I think people in general, of whatever persuasion, tend to be > arrogant when talking to people whose viewpoint they fundamentally > don't understand, and tend to take personally any strong > disagreement expressed in terms they don't understand. That's only one possibility. > I likewise note the extreme difficulty some individuals are having > coping with the "Freethinkers don't censor" debate over in > NIGHT_SIDE. (Incidentally, I happen *not* to be in full > agreement with you and Tim on this issue, about which I have mixed > feelings. Yet I note that, as usual, your opponents seem to be > freaking out.) There's been nothing here on the CAVE from NIGHTSIDE for a few months. I thought they died off. Or did another NIGHTSIDE arise and take its place?? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: All 27 Apr 92 13:36:00 Subject: Corrupt the data... UpdReq Today, the 27th of April 1992, I had an interesting but disturbing experience. Being at the mall I dropped by COST CUTTERS (family hair salon) to get a quick trim of what little hair I have left. As I walked up to the counter three CC employees had surrounded their brand-new computerized cash register. I could see that these people had little training for this device. This caused me to wait until they arrived at a consensus decision on some minor problem. Looking at me one of the employees asked me to fill out a small form with my name and address. Naturally I refused to fill out the form. This seemed to surprise the employees just a little. Another employee asked another how to enter my business into the computer without the requested form. They didn't know. Another employee told me that 'we are on the computer now. The last four digits of your phone number is the log number on the receipt.' I refused by replying that I didn't need to be in their data base and would take my business elsewhere. Off I went to lunch. After lunch I thought about clarifying the issue just for the record. Trotting down to the store I walked up to a woman (an assistant manager) and asked her if she wanted a second chance at getting my business. I hadn't seen her before but she apparently had heard something from the other employees. She replied that she had no way to enter my business into the computer with out my name and phone number. "Look," I said, "I don't want to be in your data base, I don't want to be in anyone else's database either. Now I want a haircut and you want my money. What's it gonna' be?" "Sorry I can't." "Whose the manager here?" "I'm one of them." "Where's the other?" "She's not here. But let me call someone and get some help." After making two calls she found out that she could put any name and number she wanted into the computer. With that I became Bob with a number that wasn't my own and got my haircut from a very appreciative woman who seemed to like my idea of not being in the database. Upon leaving I was offered the receipt. "Does it have a name on it? "Yeah, Bob." "That isn't my name." and I walked off. There are over 1700 federal and state agencies which collect information of citizens. I can't even guess how many thousands of private organizations collect data on customers. With all this there is almost no way to evaluate and correct information in these many thousands of databases all around the world. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: All 27 Apr 92 13:37:00 Subject: Corrupt the databases... UpdReq Think of all the junk mail every citizen gets? How many forests are destroyed because of junk mail? Too many I would guess. So I get to recycle all this junk mail (which costs me money just to take it to the people who will handle it because not many will). To remedy this I propose that we handle the situation a little differently. When a business just isn't flexible enough to handle the refusenick, then a different tack is called for. Lie. It's fun. I suddenly become Harvard T. Hillbert (the English spelling with two ls), whose address just happens to be a local recycling business. The challenge is to remember who you are for 30 or so minutes and not loose your cool. There are also many hundreds of business which collect social security numbers (against some state and federal laws). In Colorado there is now an option (it was mandatory before) to put your SSN on your drivers license. I refused that too. But where state or federal agencies are NOT concerned, then lie. My SSN suddenly becomes 815-33-0000 and my phone number 666-0000. Sooner or latter the collecting agencies will have a significant unknown percentage of their databases corrupted and will spend thousands of bucks either recycling junk mail for us or getting it back from the Postal Service. Either way, we win. Trees are saved, though some fuel is expended, but the collectors of data will eventually get the message that their moving targets don't want to be identified. Enjoy being someone else for once! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Jonathon 27 Apr 92 11:08:00 Subject: Re: QUICKIE DEFINITIONS UpdReq Jo> well, he has to find something to try to wash that Jo> blood Jo> away with All he's doing is smearing it....}:) Xeper, /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Jonathon 27 Apr 92 11:17:00 Subject: Re: QUICKIE DEFINITIONS UpdReq Jo> don't you think you ought to read this book before you Jo> start misconstruing what it says? NO, NO!!..It's much easier and cheaper to misinterpret text when you've never looked at it before!!..}:) Xeper, /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Bobby Meizer 27 Apr 92 11:57:00 Subject: Re: RE: Re: What is Satanism? UpdReq BM> Actually there IS a Setian stereotype (though of course like all BM> stereotypes BM> it provides an incomplete picture), one of an arrogant, know-it-all BM> elitist BM> who considers all disagreement as a personal attack. Unfortunately, a BM> few BM> Setians I've interacted with did their best to exemplify this BM> stereotype. Thank you!!..and all along I thought you didn't like us....(Big Kiss!!).... My suggestion is that if you find conversing with Setians so troubling, you refrain from doing so....Perhaps your therapist or similiar professional could better assist you in this dilemma....Do you experience violent emotion when you talk to us?...Do the veins on the side of you neck bulge with hatred as you grit your teeth into a fine powder?...Do you find yourself picking up sharp weaponry only to catch yourself before you begin hacking away at the monitor?... At any rate, unless your message was simply an attempt to stir the shit for no particular reason, I don't exactly see it as a step in the right direction.... later, /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Triple Six Area: Base of Set To: Frc 27 Apr 92 14:51:56 Subject: Blood-sucking? UpdReq In a message to Azrael <25 Apr 92 07:37> Frc wrote: Fr> BTW, you remind me of the DJ on Northern Exposure a great deal! You watch Northern Exposure too!?! I really dig that show for some reason. X&R! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Jonathon 27 Apr 92 16:01:00 Subject: Re: Christian Crime UpdReq Jo> but Allah claimed that he was god Jo> Mohammed used the ot prophecy to prove such Is Allah found in the Bible? No, I don't think so, unless you want to add to the Bible, which in that case would mean that you might want to be on the lookout for lightning. Jo> having slammed half a dozen different sects, all of Jo> whom Jo> claim a historical exegesis for their interpretations Jo> of Jo> the bible, and claim to go strictly by the the word of Jo> god, Jo> the holy bible, what makes you think that your cult is Jo> the Jo> cult to follow? Even a FOOL can look through the Nazarene manual and constitution, and find very little that he doesn't agree with as a Christian. Such as drinking, movies, smoking, etc..... The only point that Nazarenes differ from the other Protestant denominations is the second state of grace, which I didn't really know about until yesterday. And as far as the second state of grace goes, I have already experienced it, and didn't even realize that there was a special name for it. And example is just like I have stated before about desiring pre-marital sex, and after you get saved, God might take that desire away to have sex outside of marriages. Since, I have already experienced it, I, of course, agree with it. The only reason that certain denominations will have a few problems in interpretation is because they are not COMMITTED enough to God to try to live a holy life. Jo> furthermore, if you had read your bible, you would know Jo> that Jo> jesus is supposed to come back again & again. I don't understand how you mean this, if you do, in fact, mean this as in Jesus is going to come back again (like reincarnation or something as another prophet), before the second coming at the beginning most likely, or the middle or the end of the Tribulation, then you are truly misled, and need to do just a little bit more of research on Bible prophecy. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Jonathon 27 Apr 92 16:05:00 Subject: Re: QUICKIE DEFINITIONS UpdReq Jo> don't you think you ought to read this book before you Jo> start misconstruing what it says? Only if you are going to buy it for me. If it is out of context, then please give me the complete context, and just don't say that it has to do with symbolism. If non-Christian groups gave away their materials like Christian groups do, then Christians wouldn't have to worry about taken things out of context! You can get free Bibles from the Gideons, but there is no such place that gives away books concerning the Occultic and Satanic subjects. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Jonathon Blake 27 Apr 92 16:09:00 Subject: Re: satan UpdReq JB> do you mean according to the way that you interpret it, JB> or somebody, like say the Holy Roman Catholic Church JB> does? I mean interpret it correctly, and not twisting it to what you want it to say! JB> PR>are going to get posts on supposed contradicts. If you JB> JB> things that you have yet to address. Ok, show me a TRUE contradiction, and not that garbage that is slight differences between the gospels. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Ammond Shadowcraft 27 Apr 92 16:19:00 Subject: Re: QUICKIE DEFINITIONS UpdReq AS> He did some things which SOME people consider illegial. So AS> what? I'm sure you've jay-walked a couple times. Jay-walking is a crime against the government, and needless killing (as in not for food, when it concerns animals) is a crime against God, unless directed by God. But Jesus was the perfect lamb so sacrifices are no longer necessary. AS> Things become clearer when you read PORTABLE DARKNESS, which AS> concerns what lays behind Aleister's writing. Now, you, as well as others, are telling me that you need special books and footnotes, to interpret Crowley's ramblings. If Crowley's works are considered truth, then the truth should be able to stand on its own. The Holy Bible is Truth, thus the reason that True Christians do not need to have some special book to interpret the Bible; like cults like The Watchtower (JWs) require to twist the Scriptures. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Ammond Shadowcraft 27 Apr 92 16:38:00 Subject: Re: satan UpdReq AS> It appears you are still a hypocrite. Jesus had not a pillow AS> to lay his head upon and you have a house?? I am not a hypocrite because: 1) I live with my parents. 2) I have made a promise to God that if I was to ever become rich, which I am sure I won't; I will not live like a rich person. I will only have a small, up to three bedroom house. I won't live elegantly, because I would rather help out the John 3:16 Mission. In fact, I have even thought about living with the homeless in the shelters, like the pastor and voluteers at Set Free Ministries in Anaheim, California do. AS> Jesus had not a coin to his name and you have a computer. Go AS> and sell *all* you have and give the proceeds to the poor you AS> hypocrite! If I was to give up my computer, how would I get in touch with ministries all over the nation that are only set up on computer systems like Manna Systems? How would I be able to make computer programs like for cataloging books for churches like my own? If I was to sell my computer, how would I be able to make accompaniment tapes for the Christian community, without MIDI stuff? How would I be able to minister to cultists like Mormons in the LDS_Conference, if I didn't have a computer? How would I be able to obtain free information about cults without my computer? My computer is a tool to use in the ministry and is not a LUXURY. In fact, I don't hardly ever play games on it, it is only used for mail and information purposes concerning religion! Besides, God promised that we would have life, and life more abundantly, when we follow His will. Maybe that is the verse that you need to look up. AS> Until then you lie to us and don't even know you are lying. I do not lie to you guys, in fact, I even agree with the Satanists sometimes. Unless you truly know what is contained in God's Word and what it means, you shouldn't call me a liar or hypocrite. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Ammond Shadowcraft 27 Apr 92 16:39:00 Subject: Re: QUICKIE DEFINITIONS UpdReq AS> PR> Is that quote not true? Is it out of context? Please show me AS> why AS> PR> people are getting upset over me quoting it. AS> AS> Because: you didn't think for yourself, you didn't question AS> authority and you did a incomplete job. I give you a D. Try harder AS> next time. I still don't see any quotes.......... People keep on getting on my back about the quote, yet I still don't see any ACTUAL information from the book to show me that it was out of context. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Linda Beebe Area: Base of Set To: Triple Six 27 Apr 92 17:35:00 Subject: Re: Blood-sucking? UpdReq TS> You watch Northern Exposure too!?! TS> I really dig that show for some reason. ME THREE!!!! (grin) L 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azrael Area: Base of Set To: Vitriol 27 Apr 92 18:41:00 Subject: Re: ENLIGHTENMENT UpdReq Vi> Oh, quit bitching! Good one. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Puck Area: Base of Set To: Frc 27 Apr 92 11:08:00 Subject: Re: Set... UpdReq I see - then how do YOU see Set? I have always thought of Set not so much a ''god of evil' (whatever that means - evil is in the mind of the beholder, as far as that goes), but certainly an adversary to deities such as Isis and Horus. I'd be curious on your feedback. Bright Blessings! Puck 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Puck Area: Base of Set To: Balanone 27 Apr 92 11:41:00 Subject: Re: Set... UpdReq Thanks for the clarification! I sometimes think that some so-called 'evil' deities have gotten a 'bum rap' - there are aspects of some deities that can be useful to work with...for all of us who believe in them, of course!!! BTW - I love your tag-line!!! I'd always heard it as "It's always darkest...just before it goes totally black!!!" :) Bright Blessings! Puck 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718