From: Frater Almost Area: Base of Set To: Azrael 28 Mar 92 02:15:30 Subject: Re: left-hand? Sent UpdReq First off, Chuck, might I point out to you that you are using as a name the name attributed to the Angel of Death..... That might not be such a good idea. I once went under the name of Frater Choronzon and it got me into all osrts of chaotic trouble....... Really nasty stuff. Further, as I stated in another post to you, enlightenment can only come from within.... It is subjective and not Objective. The only reason that Xtianity doen't have this level of understanding is because the Mysterys have been forgotten and now go perverted. There is much to learn here if you read between the lines. I suggest that you find a system and settle down with it for a while.... If you get results, then you might wish to re-evaluate your situation from there. Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lady Byron Area: Base of Set To: Balanone 26 Mar 92 12:39:22 Subject: Re: Magickal Link UpdReq B> It'll take me a while to put together my response on this ... B> I'm still busy working on your last question. (You just don't B> give up, do you? :-) ) Hell, no! Wait to you hear all the projects I have going on that I don't even tell you about! * * ** \___/ V V _ Lady Byron 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: Base of Set To: Lady Byron 26 Mar 92 18:46:32 Subject: Re: Magickal Link UpdReq B> It'll take me a while to put together my response on this ... B> I'm still busy working on your last question. (You just don't B> give up, do you? :-) ) LB> LB> Hell, no! Wait to you hear all the projects I have LB> going on that I don't even tell you about! I suspect it'll be a very long wait before I hear about project you don't tell me about. :-) Balanone PP PS: My son wants to know if anyone knows any good jokes about blond vampires... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nrrys Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 25 Mar 92 20:10:08 Subject: Re: Satanism in General UpdReq PR> The Holy Ghost is so strong inside of me, that it makes PR>me feel high. I have power, like I have never had before. PR>And the thing about it is that NO ONE can claim my Spirit- PR>filledness on hype from church. My church is boring. But, PR>hey man, I get blessed driving down the road in my PR>car!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey, man! Like, that used to happen to me, too! But then I had that leak in my muffler fixed... May you never thirst! NRRYS --- X SLMR 2.1a X OH NO! ITS A +5 VORPOL MESSAGE BOOMARANG! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nrrys Area: Base of Set To: Jonathon 25 Mar 92 20:45:10 Subject: Re: Painted Black UpdReq JO> * SLMR 2.0 * Have you tried 3-way calling & TriModem 1.13? NR>Is there no depths of perversion to which you satan NR>worshippers will not sink JO> what in god's name are you talking about here? Well, that depends on which "god" you are invoking here. (You're not one of those "X" people, are you?) JO> are you implying that the local telcos are perverse satanists? You mean nobody has told you yet? JO> are you implying that soviet experimentation with trinary states in JO> computers is a perversion? Hail Binary! All ones are one one! All zeros are one zero! May the evil "tweeners" find the dual path to the one true logic state! NOT, OR, NOR, AND, NAND, XOR, JK, RS, D ... JO> or are you telling us that you are a perversion? But, of course! A III* perversion, if you must know. (Soon to be IV* Orgy Master) JO> or is this your way of telling us that you worship satan? Possibly my way of asking? Kallisti! NRRYS ___ X SLMR 2.1a X The heel hath no sole! - The Three Stooges 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nrrys Area: Base of Set To: Diane Vera 26 Mar 92 00:00:12 Subject: Nothing imparticular Rec'd UpdReq DV>By the way, what gender are you? (I don't know what mythology the DV>name "Nrrys" comes from, let alone whather Nrrys is a Goddess or a DV>male God.) I am an aware_being-male-hetero (In that order). NRRYS is the name of the god(dess) that I am evolving into. N> Well, as a part time Discordian, I find MUCH power in N> my inability to be insulted. DV>Sounds like a truly worthwhile "inability". Any suggestions on how DV>to attain it? (...) DV>If you're a woman, I would specifically appreciate DV>hearing how you deal with sexist insults; Repeat after me: "I am the center of my universe. I choose who I am, and what I am. I WILL not allow anyone else to define me. Those who would try to insult me, only prove that I am ME, different from all others BY MY WILL." :-) DV>and I would especially DV>appreciate any advice you might have for people like myself who are DV>not quick-witted when it comes to making witty remarks. You must overcome your fear of appearing silly to others. Read weird books. Practice making faces at yourself in the mirror. Laugh at inappropriate times. BTW: you might find a suprising amount of "satanic" material in the Wilson/Shea book, _The Illuminati Trilogy_. Discordianism isn't TOTAL bullsh*t, ya know? RR>The Setians on this echo have repeatedly claimed RR>not to "worship" Set. On November 6th, 1988 Michael RR>Aquino was a guest on the TV show Seattle Town Meeting. RR>When asked what "Satan" was, he replied "...a later day RR>perversion or corruption of the god we actually RR>worship." N>Don't you find the science of Semantics fun? I do! N>What is worship? I suspect the two usages above have not N>the same definition! DV>I was going to say this to Reuben myself, but you put it more DV>succinctly than I could. Thanks. (Blush!) Why your welcome, M'lady! (3rd degree Blush!) (Last sentence of the Church of All Worlds pledge:) "For these reasons I recognize Divinity both within and without, and I say to myself and others: THOU ART GODDESS; THOU ART GOD." NRRYS ___ X SLMR 2.1a X Time is fun when you're having flies. - Kermit the Frog 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nrrys Area: Base of Set To: Diane Vera 25 Mar 92 21:56:14 Subject: Nonproductive debates Rec'd UpdReq DV>For example, I think it's useless to debate with Pale Rider about DV>Christianity. You, Gary Cruser, and a few other folks apparently DV>think otherwise, so I leave that debate to you. I don't, out of DV>sheer disgust for the debate's uselessness, throw nonproductive DV>flames at Pale Rider, even though I'm thoroughly disgusted by some DV>of PR's remarks. (I do wish the Christianity debate would move to DV>OASIS, however.) Since a number of people here are still in the "breaking away from christianity" stage, I think PR serves a very useful purpose here. In fact, if he didn't exist (Hmm... he IS for real, isn't he?) it would be useful to have someone pretend to be a fundy on this echo. Much of the lower degree "satanic" stuff seems to be only to help this remanifesting process... May you never thirst! NRRYS ___ X SLMR 2.1a X Wanna be a psychopath? Read Dianetics! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nrrys Area: Base of Set To: David Weird 25 Mar 92 22:18:16 Subject: "SET" king size filters UpdReq DW>hey, nice to meet you too. i guess it's going to be fun DW>with all you people there in my afterlife... yeah, pale DW>too, 'cos we know he'll join us in hell or wherever we go, DW>won't he? ;) Well, I've got the REAL story (Honest!) on Mr Pale Rider. It seems that a couple of years ago, he was raving drunk at this REALLY wild orgy, and the big man from down under got him signed up. Now he is doomed to haunt this echo for the rest on his life, and then its the down elevator for him! May you never thirst! NRRYS ___ X SLMR 2.1a X Life : a terminal, sexually transmitted disease. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nrrys Area: Base of Set To: Templeton Hyde 25 Mar 92 22:23:18 Subject: Xeper and Remanifest UpdReq TH>T. Hyde [new name, again. guess i'll stick to this one] Like your new name! TH>extreme xtians who burn books and records may even be TH>aiding the economy... if every anti-occultist buys a certain TH>record and burns it, the musicians get rich and maybe even TH>win a granny award [snicker] Getting your book banned in Boston used to be a sure ticket to success! TH>but seriously now: i find people who burn books and records TH>because some material in them is not to their liking quite TH>disgusting. a) they're stupid, b) they're quite close to TH>what the nazis and other dictatorships did to opposition TH>literature, c) burning material won't do a thing against TH>whatever problem they may be attacking. Shh!! Don't tell them!! They might do something intellegent/dangerous! May you never thirst! NRRYS ___ X SLMR 2.1a X Second thing we do, we kill all the Moderators! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: Base of Set To: Azrael 27 Mar 92 22:41:28 Subject: Re: left-hand? UpdReq I, sir, am always serious. The point I am making is that enlightenment comes from within and not from without. You should spend some time looking inside for your answers and not to some "genii" in a magic lamp! You are your own answer..... Please understand that and, FYI, anything you post here can be responded to in any way shape form or fashion as long as the response doesn't break any Base of Set policies. Please understand that. Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 27 Mar 92 06:23:00 Subject: Re: Christian Crime UpdReq AI> Speaking of Penguins, how about those turn signal levers?... Only when you hold your mouth just right! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Base of Set To: Nrrys 27 Mar 92 06:44:00 Subject: Re: Green Egg letter (2 UpdReq Nr> Setians seem to believe that they are separate from nature, given the Nr> gift Nr> of free will by an entity of pure awareness that they call Set. To Nr> not Nr> develop one's "un-naturalness" is to sink back into nature with the Nr> rest of the lower life forms. Nr> "Do not wallow in it like an animal in the warm mud; rather cut it as you would a fine gem and behold the brilliance of its facets. Experience it; savor its taste, sense its exquisite pain and pleasure." Dr. M. A. Aquino, _The Wewelsburg Working_ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Base of Set To: Triple Six 27 Mar 92 06:49:00 Subject: Re: Christian Crime UpdReq TS> * Origin: This blade here is my best friend.... (Quick 1:170/811.4) And which Blade might that be, huh? ;D Days of Fire, days of Ice............ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Static Area: Base of Set To: Balanone 27 Mar 92 09:20:00 Subject: Re: demon-shape UpdReq I see your point but I have a couple of decades experience with confabulators in the paranormal and I could tell the lady was legit -- otherwise I would not have asked for some assistance. Thanks for your input.ws 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nosferat Area: Base of Set To: Nrrys 27 Mar 92 23:07:00 Subject: Hail UpdReq Hail Eris! DO you belong to the Temple of Set? Did you say you belonged to the Church of All Worlds or somthing? WHat is this? May you never run out of neat Tagline! All Hail dIscordia. Satanist for Jesus-------------> 1 (800) 666-JHVH 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Templeton Hyde Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 24 Mar 92 02:01:00 Subject: Satanism in General UpdReq hello pale, LB> Do YOU follow your faith from fear, or love? LB> What good our devotion, to any god, if it is from fear? LB> [fear] isn't the emotion that truly makes people LB> love...or want to be their best in my opinion... you still haven't answered Linda's questions so far [though i am a few days behind], even though you quote them. still pondering? PR> You said that certain seminaries were teaching that hell is PR> really translated the grave. However, the only people that adopt this PR> teaching is those that belong to sects, or more to the point cults. reread the message and think for a while. just how an you classify some groups (who have teachings you don't agree with) classify as cults, while you classify your own nazarene sect a "church"? would such a definition not insinuate that xtianity is a huge jewish cult? PR> Those that teach there is going to be no eternal torment, but preach PR> annilation, are also sects. Both JWs and Adventists teach this. But PR> these teaching go totally against the Bible. they reinterpret it in their own way. SO DO YOU. also, all the other xtian groups i've seen so far do exactly that: protestantism is differnt from catholicism, lutherism different from calvinism, etc. would you say catholic teachings go against the bible? they have many brilliant scholars researching the bible. how can you think you _know_ which interpretation is correct? LB> God or spirituality, how ever you choose to look at it, LB> should be IN YOU, not about you, not from a book, or a LB> denomination...or even a preacher or teacher...none of LB> that can tell you more than the direction of your own soul, LB> if you listen... and belief shouldn't stem from "this is what my church says" or from "this is what xtian scientists have found out". the problem i see here is that too many people seem to really believe all the gibberish that's force-fed into them by their various groups. by the way, did you know that about 20% of all americans have changed their confession more than twice? a lot of people seem to become grotesquely enthusiastic followers of a particular movement for a short time, then switch to another group that they seem to like better... also, the small groups of self-proclaimed "independent" xtians that i've seen so far were amongst the most funnymentalists [mind if i borrow your word, ammond?] i've ever tried to have discussions with. weird what directions these groups go when left to themselves... PR> You have to make sure what Bible scholars you are going by. There PR> is alot of Bible-twisting seminaries out there. ever thought about how your own group may be doing just the same thing? twisting the words so they fit in with a particular system? people interpreting the bible can find just about any meaning they want to find, then tell other people "our scientists say this is it" and found a new "church". Hyde 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Diane Vera Area: Base of Set To: Bobby Meizer 28 Mar 92 16:08:52 Subject: definitions of satanism Sent UpdReq On March 23, you wrote me a message titled "definitions of satanism": . BM > Have you read Sam Keen's "FACES OF THE ENEMY: Reflections of the Hostile Imagination"? .No, but I do have a copy and intend to read it one of these days. . BM > In one passage I think he implies a definition of Satanism which I am sure would not appeal to most self-styled Satanists, but which nonetheless shares some elements with some of the definitions of both 'Christians' and 'Satanists': .What exactly do you mean by the phrase "self-styled Satanists"? I've noticed that lots of people use the term "self-styled" to refer to Satanists, but not to adherents of any other religion. I wonder why. (Some use "self-styled" to refer to Satanists in general; and others use it to refer to Satanists who aren't members of CoS or ToS.) .Anyhow, you quoted Sam Keen thus: . SK > When we describe the Devil thus as the organized or systematic obsession with power that has been divorced from purpose, the mindless will-to-power, it is clear that this ancient symbol is profoundly relevant to modern experience. Bureaucracies and the contemporary state have functioned in a satanic manner to allow us to commit the most hideous crimes and to deny responsibility for them. The German extermination camps and the systematic slaughter of civilian populations in Russia, Cambodia, Indonesia, China, Pakistan, and so on, ad nauseum, have been carried out by men who have all been "following orders," "doing their duty." The state "made them do it" in the same way that the Devil ordered the "Son of Sam" to commit murders in New York. .Maybe I'll understand this better when I read the book, but it seems to me that Sam Keen is conflating two very different things: (1) the "will-to-power", mindless or otherwise, and (2) "following orders", denying personal responsibility. Yes, mindless obedience is one way of trying to obtain power, but it certainly isn't the only way. Also, it seems to me that "following orders" is more often motivated by a desire for security (or a desire to save one's skin) than a "will-to-power". .Of course, there would be no orders to follow if there weren't other people in positions of power over you. Is Sam Keen one of those people who thinks human society can exist without any hierarchies? . BK > Of course, Keen isn't speaking in a strictly spiritual context, and he is also careful to limit the above comments to our present 'era'. For 'pre-modern' societies he identifies the 'satanic' qualities instead as doubt, disbelief, and blasphemy. .Most modern Satanists would regard doubt and disbelief (skepticism) as Satanic qualities. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Diane Vera Area: Base of Set To: Bobby Meizer 28 Mar 92 16:10:48 Subject: RE: "gay basher" Sent UpdReq On March 23, you responded to my March 22 message to Reuben Radding, "'gay basher'": . DV > By the way, I agree that the comments about Blanche Barton's figure, etc., were rude. I commented only on your message, and not on Triple Six's, because your implied anti-gay attitude is so glaringly inconsistent with CoS's philosophy of individualism (at least as expressed in the chapter on "Satanic sex" in THE SATANIC BIBLE). . BM > Is this meant to imply that 'Triple Six' was behaving in a way consistent with the Setian philosophy of elitism? What about the frequently scatological attacks from 'Ammond Shadowcraft'? .No. The above-mentioned behaviors are indeed inconsistent with elitism. However, they aren't quite as *glaringly and unarguably* inconsistent with elitism as Reuben's comment is with individualism. .At least, I *thought* Reuben's comment was *unarguably* "gay- bashing" and therefore inconsistent with individualism. However, Reuben's response was to deny that it was "gay-bashing"! (Some people can argue about *anything*!) In contrast, Triple Six at least had the grace to apologize for his comment about Blanche Barton. (See Triple Six's March 25 message to All, "'gay basher'".) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Diane Vera Area: Base of Set To: Frc 28 Mar 92 16:12:02 Subject: Re: Nothing imparticular Sent UpdReq On March 24, you responded to my March 22 message to Nrrys, "Nothing imparticular": . DV > [Note to any Setians who are reading this: Would any of you be willing to clarify exactly what you do and do not mean by the word "worship"?] . Frc > "The Satanist thought to approach Satan through ritual. Now let the Setian shun all recitation, for the text of another is an affront to the Self. Speak rather to me as a friend, gently and without fear, and I shall hear as a friend. Do not bend your knee nor drop your eye, for such things were not done in my house at PaMat-et." -_The BOCFBN_ .Thanks for sharing this. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Diane Vera Area: Base of Set To: Nrrys 28 Mar 92 16:13:04 Subject: Re: Green Egg letter (2 Sent UpdReq On March 23, you replied to my March 21 message to you "Re: Green Egg letter (2": . DV > (Don't ask me why ToS considers *Christianity* to be a "Nature-worshipping religion". I'm not a member of ToS. I've asked, and I still don't understand it.) . N > Well, let me make an ignorant guess or two here as an outsider myself... Christianity would be considered "Nature Worshipping" because they believe in being part of the natural order of things, as created by this "god" of theirs. .Christians (or at least evangelical Christians) do not believe in "being part of the natural order of things". Christians believe that "Nature", along with humankind, is "fallen". According to St. Paul, the human soul is a battleground between the "natural man" and the "spiritual man". .Actually, there are a few contexts in which Christians do tell us to conform to an alleged "natural order" -- mainly when they want to endorse either sexism or heterosexism. Homosexuality, female leadership, and birth control are all supposedly bad because they're supposedly "unnatural" as well as forbidden by scripture. However, in nearly all other contexts, Christianity sees "Nature" as something we're supposed to rise above rather than conform to. "Be ye not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed ...." 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Diane Vera Area: Base of Set To: Balanone 28 Mar 92 16:14:10 Subject: Re: ToS and "Nature" Sent UpdReq On March 23, you replied to my March 21 message to you "Re: ToS and 'Nature'": . DV > I still don't see how Christianity can in *any* sense be called a "Nature-worshipping religion". (It isn't a "Psyche-worshipping religion" either; it is something else entirely. Christianity did borrow lots of mythical themes from Nature-worshipping religions, but uses those themes in a completely different context.) . B > Your points are very well made. It's quite possible that we've wrongly over-simplified matters in classifying Christianity as not only RHP but also as nature- worshipping. I'll see if I can track down the sources and reasons for that statement. It's one thing to over-simplify matters in the introductory letter, but we certainly should not be flat out wrong in a statement. I'll let you know what I find out. .Thanks. I'll be very interested to hear about it. .Even the RHP-vs.-LHP distinction is a bit oversimplified, though not as flat-out wrong as calling Christianity a "Nature-worshipping religion". If I recall correctly, ToS defines "RHP" as any religion or system of magic(k) which aims to merge the individual consciousness with the universe. .Christianity does not aim to merge the individual consciousness with the universe. (Again, that's Hinduism and Buddhism, not Christianity.) Christianity does aim, at the expense of individuality, to make the individual a part of something larger than oneself. However, in Christianity, that "something larger" is *not* the universe, but rather an abstraction called the "Body of Christ", which is quite distinct from the material universe. Also, in Christianity, one's *consciousness* does not get "merged" with anything; one's consciousness remains separate but is supposed to be totally *subordinated* to the "Will of God". .Christianity is RHP if one defines "RHP" as any religion or philosophy which aims to make the individual a part of something larger than oneself, at the expense of individuality. .See also the message I just now posted to Nrrys "Re: Green Egg letter (2". 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718