From: Tony Jones Area: Public Key Encryption To: Shawn McMahon 19 Mar 95 17:08:00 Subject: In response to bye!/2 UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi Shawn, I was reading your message.. - ----------------------------------- M E S S A G E FROM: Shawn McMahon TO: Zorch Frezberg DATE: 17-Mar-95 TIME: 12:09 RE: In response to bye!/2 - ----------------------------------- ZF>>InterNet access is becoming elitist. - much deleted - SM> Zorch, you're completely 180 degrees wrong. SM> InterNet access is becoming easier, cheaper, and "more cool" every day. - much deleted - SM> Now, all the rags have semi-regular features about the 'net ZF>> In order to use Windows now, the major InterNet access ZF>> methodology, you need a 386. SM> No. SM> A 386SX40 motherboard costs around $80 on the street. SM> Enough SIPP-to-SIMM converters to get your memory over SM> brings the cost to just over $100, for most people. SM> But it isn't necessary; as you should know, Windows isn't in any way SM> necessary for joining the Internet. There are many ways to SM> get Internet access, and the way I do it (a shell account) SM> can be emulated by anybody with a dumb terminal and a modem. SM> If you want WWW access, you need more; but WWW ain't the entire Internet. And if I may add, there are TEXT ONLY browsers for WEB access, Mine runs on a 286.. Just fewer pictures to slow down the modem connection. ZF>> The InterNet is an elitist playing field. FidoNet is not. SM> What operating system includes a free Fidonet mailer? ZF>> FidoNet is and will be grass-roots. It can survive without ZF>> InterNet, though it should not. It may well be time for a ZF>> new and clearer vision of what FidoNet should be in the ZF>> future...perhaps a new symposium on a new FTSC. ZF>> But it cannot, nor should it be allowed to die. SM> All of this is true. This is where the truth shines brightest. The FIDO standards will be updated as demands for types of services increase. These updated standards will probably include some of the multimedia items you have mentioned as WEB's expensive requirements. In both cases, FIDO and Internet access will still have a fully usable text layer which allows terminal level access. Those with better toys will use them wether or not you or I do. I won't begrudge them thier resources as long as the path remains open for mine. I look forward to a long & happy life for both networks. Type bits / keyID Date User ID pub 1024 / F183C7C1 1995/02/24 Anthony (Tony) E. Jones 6E 17 4A 4D 98 69 AB C7 B3 B8 BD 2D 11 90 30 64 Public Key Avail. on Req. .!. Freedom isn't cheap and it never goes on sale. ___--BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: There is safety in numbers - Yeah, large prime numbers iQCVAwUBL2y9BN596+jxg8fBAQHLsgP/Xfv61j9cAzL+qyHBVvy7UNyA2FfeA8CD jwzLn7BmQfgXW8V8jwfelOqTheyi91DqkX1WrvIe3XYxTqeFHLBm+1pzhWRWRQrV MSLVQaDrwLDBUhwe9ktTsUzQFxrspwGcVgcHyXEgFueg3MzvEEmQdZ2+i8tFp5FC 11NjyEB9ZsQ= =vQV2 ___--END PGP SIGNATURE----- ___ Terminate 1.51/Pro X TerMail/QWK X Tony's Place - an undefined system of thought 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: John Schofield Area: Public Key Encryption To: Jeffrey Bloss 19 Mar 95 00:20:46 Subject: Poker? UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- --====-- JB> Well... I was thinking the dealer could create 52 text (or ANSI) JB> files, one for each card. Of course each of the files should have the JB> name or picture of the card in it. :) JB> The dealer could put each file through a one way hashing function and JB> post the results in a message. It might look something like this... JB> It may not be possible to implement. :( Everything i have been able JB> to come up with so far relies heavily on the honesty of the dealer. JB> I'd like to have a protocol that keeps the dealer blind to the other's JB> cards until it's time to "call". :) Are my messages getting out? I posted a message on this topic earlier. To summarize: 1) Any protocol that involves a dealer or trusted third party is FLAWED. Mental poker protocols exist that do NOT require a dealer. 2) The problem you are working on has already been solved. A complete mental poker protocol, WITHOUT a dealer, has been written. However, there are some flaws in this method. Frankly, I don't have the math to understand those flaws. But if you want to continue this research, try to solve the flaws. Reinventing the wheel may be fun, but it isn't very useful. 3) The reference for this (and for just about every other crypto issue) is Bruce Schneier's _Applied Cryptography_, copyright 1994 by John Wiley and Sons, Inc. The ISBN number is 0-471-59756-2. John Schofield -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.7 Comment: Call 818-345-8640 voice for info on Keep Out magazine. iQCVAwUBL2vozWj9fvT+ukJdAQEdmAP+NTDXrB0Kz+gfWvgJNm5W+05yQwdbeYDk yRVMoEEEP/blb6mWcBz1aXJ2ZL9JScuCB2aedKpnBGUNTgU8WaXaLaTXRBRqrx/u 8Fj/C80XTq8Ruei8YVWZ1t0uzJMJoka6h1sXgClgf8MhN4ZoyGj0uGf3ivZsauHv wXIJh+fktok= =tSg5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- **EZ-PGP v1.07 ... He who gives up freedom for security will get neither. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: L P Area: Public Key Encryption To: Slowdog 19 Mar 95 08:49:00 Subject: Senator Leahy Weighs UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- <<***** On 03-19-95, SLOWDOG wrote to ALL: *****>> SS>... SS>---------------------------------------------------------------- SS>FOR MORE INFORMATION ON S. 314 AND WHAT YOU CAN DO SS> SS> SS>* HELP STOP S.314 SS> SS>Send a letter or call your Senator! For information on how you can SS>help, send a message to SS> SS>* DOCUMENTS SS> SS>CDT's analysis of S. 314 and the text of the bill can be obtained at SS>the Voters Telecommunications Watch (VTW) archive: SS> SS>WWW URL: gopher://gopher.panix.com/11/vtw/exon SS>Gopher command : gopher -p 1/vtw/exon gopher.panix.com Thank you for the post to FidoNet. Is there a place to FREQ these documents? ^^^^^^^ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAgUBL2x/4F3p8JHts+exAQHKTwP/bQrdOtQDBKZtdZ1fGzKdfYyZKsLCs3ZF LEwF0J8AZhdg15cpEeUb8GzUQEyixCQBmuoWHsb78RMgl2cj0PTk0cFCG2POk1ae LOd+Yf56owTZoFeM0SZHPeK9wAGbIs8Mi5I+JxxujAphFVBuTmVxWfS4arQHyQvZ aR2GKHD9pTA= =whXH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ~~~ VbReader V1.4 Be patient, evolution isn't finished with us yet. # Origin: Who's Askin'? Matanuska-Susitna Valley, AK (1:17/75.0) * Origin: PODNet <-> FidoNet EchoGate! (93:9600/0.0) SEEN-BY: 107/946 147/1077 259/212 382/7 640/217 3611/19 9600/0 9608/0 9609/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Donald Price Area: Public Key Encryption To: Zorch Frezberg 19 Mar 95 17:24:00 Subject: Re: In response to bye!/2 UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- -=> Zorch Frezberg was overheard mumbling to Ian Hebert about In response to b e!/2 <=- ZF> The InterNet is an elitist playing field. FidoNet is not. ZF> vision of what FidoNet should be in the future...perhaps a new ZF> symposium on a new FTSC. ZF> But it cannot, nor should it be allowed to die. ZF> FidoNet is our backstop against government intervention. We represent ZF> a smaller community than the InterNet, but there aren't many on-line ZF> services that can match us for numbers of sysops and users, nor for ZF> coverage of the planet. Well said Zorch!! I totally agree. I've played and "surfed the net" and still enjoy FidoNet. I am a small system and cannot afford The Internet for my users and FidoNet is the alternative. It is a nice alternative. I will always carry FidoNet. It shall not die...... C-Ya, Donald -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBL2zZJrN6p1QTDElVAQFF6gP/Y2UWsJrkq2ONq6aH8SeL5tutPRrM+5z2 VyUw4fTkMm2ttKubwA0bcjI8hrBvUsm6mW42xamjOFf1yIijqA4rRGxCHDlolH24 7EuFtAKAArANKYyVghnXiRG9aNwNduPOmjpHFLw2W3pRE3UFbEID0JvO5c9usOoC ur0C7Qv8qPk= =lA85 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ~~~ PGPBLUE v1.7 ... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Donald Price Area: Public Key Encryption To: Damon Getsman 19 Mar 95 17:34:00 Subject: Re: New PGP key UpdReq Hope I got this set right in PGPBLUE! -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAy7zvCoAAAEEAL+bNU6dY1E9/B3E+INjMpUK0O4z96BxANrxtQxh++RrIG+9 XyVBQjj0qHnymujOU32DTkVh/DbgtOc1kZxMQUdqT2QZEVfjWc+4lW/TYF6QdTWy djX194CEA0SKcU6XMNLngrp/37dWiVZeMcnCdjheXmVWUvQLuLN6p1QTDElVAAUR tCZEb25hbGQgUi4gUHJpY2UgPDE6MjA1LzE4QEZpZG9OZXQub3JnPg== =TAYq -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ~~~ PGPBLUE v1.7 ... Answers: $1, Short: $5, Correct: $25, dumb looks are still free. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shawn McMahon Area: Public Key Encryption To: Eddie Benson 21 Mar 95 13:28:32 Subject: Re: bye! UpdReq Despite the stern warnings of the tribal elders, Eddie Benson said this to Shawn McMahon: SM>> they meet a DIFFERENT set of needs. Hell, if Fidonet was that SM>> pointless, UUCP wouldn't have been invented either. They went to a SM>> lot of trouble to write a protocol that, in many ways, gives Internet SM>> systems capabilities similar to Fidonet. EB> EB> I agree with the majority of your statments, but I would like to EB> point out that Unix to Unix CoPy (UUCP) was not written for fidonet. Read what I wrote again, Eddie; I thought I was pretty clear. UUCP gives Internet/Usenet a capability similar to Fidonet's; transferring batch mail over phone lines. I doubt that it was written because of Fidonet; it was written, however, because that capability is useful. That capability is what Fidonet is all about, and it works better than UUCP, in general. (Their backbone might be a little more reliable, but then again we have direct connections and can pick and choose our routing to a limited extent.) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shawn McMahon Area: Public Key Encryption To: Zorch Frezberg 21 Mar 95 13:31:02 Subject: Re: bye! UpdReq Despite the stern warnings of the tribal elders, Zorch Frezberg said this to Eddie Benson: ZF> I don't think that he said that, Eddie, but you've made the ZF> mistake of misinterpreting his words, so I'll let you deal ZF> with Shawn on your own. ZF> Good luck. THPHTPTHTPHTPHT! :-) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shawn McMahon Area: Public Key Encryption To: Zorch Frezberg 21 Mar 95 13:49:02 Subject: In response to bye!/2 UpdReq Despite the stern warnings of the tribal elders, Zorch Frezberg said this to Shawn McMahon: ZF> You're assuming that there are people out there who are ZF> completely computer-literate the instant that they sit down ZF> in front of a keyboard. No, I'm not; but you're assuming that they aren't making Internet access easier and easier. ZF> Likewise, I've yet to see a UNIX server run on anythign less than a 486. COHERENT will run on a 286 with 2 megs, and perform damn well. Comes with complete Internet access tools. Your government is running a number of Internet servers on 386DX16s; I've seen the guts of two of them recently. ZF> Tell you what...go into any store that deals in computers ZF> (that you don't know the owners) and see what is being sold ZF> to consumers as the latest in ZF> "ya-gotta-have-it-or-you're-nothing" technology. Then tell them how much you have to spend; they *WANT* your money, they'll find something to sell you. ZF> One for AOL, one for CI$, and one for Prodigy. ZF> *ALL* of these require Windows 3.1 and a 386 minimum ZF> machine... the CI$ diskrecommends a 486. And if you call them whining "but I don't have a 386, I'm one of the folks in the MINORITY who still has a 286 or less" then Cserve tells you "ok, call this number with your terminal program." ZF> If I was Joe Citizen, I'd not know what to do. It costs less to upgrade your 286 than it does to purchase DOS and Windows off the shelf. Hardly out of anyone's reach, and I simply reject your contention that a computer dealer will refuse to sell you the cheaper motherboard. Even if he jacks the price up and charges an arm and a leg for installation, you can do the upgrade pretty damn cheap. And as for new users; you just try buying a brand-new 286. Hell, it's hard in some places to find the 386SXes because the DXes are just as cheap. ZF> What good is the InterNet when the operating systems (with ZF> _free_ InterNet access included!) require machines outside ZF> the range of affordability? OS/2 requires a 386SX, Zorch. And guess what; the VAST majority of people have that or better already. And *NONE* of the new system sales (or so close as to be statistically indistinguishable) are below a 386SX. ZF> You get all this free access stuff...*IF* you go out and buy a bigger/faster machine. Or *IF* you're in the MAJORITY of existing machines. There are an estimated 50 million Windows 3.1 or higher owners out there; *EACH AND EVERY SINGLE ONE* is capable of using existing FREE Internet access choices, including Netscape's stuff, AOL, etc. ZF> Or are you going to try and tell me that Warp and Chicago ZF> are going to run on a 386SX40, as you use exampled above? Dunno about Chicago, but Warp runs just peachy. Hell, Zorch, I had 2.1 running fine on a 386SX25 with 4 megs of RAM; Warp's requirements are LOWER, not higher. ZF> I've got a blind couple that want to access the InterNet ZF> because they've been told there are some interesting sites ZF> available to them. ZF> What good is Windows or Icons to a blind couple? Little good; and although IBM has software that makes OS/2 a little more accessible to blind people, I suggest that your couple would be better off with a shell account. ZF> The couple gets SSI; about $750/month...how do they go out ZF> and buy the equipment? Where do they get the training? So you think they can access Fidonet more easily? You're loopy, Zorch; the same equipment they'd use to access Fidonet can be used to access a shell account. And, contrary to a statement of yours that I accidently deleted, they do *NOT* need SLIP to use the Internet. One can use LYNX over a shell account; indeed, I've never used it in any other way. Your couple can have exactly the same level of Internet access that I have; I don't think they'd count as deprived. True, they'll use it slower, since they'll be using a screen reader; but do you honestly think Fidonet will be so much easier for them? ZF> When I saw their difficulty, it opened my eyes to just how ZF> much I've taken *my* ability to access for granted. Unless you've been holding out on me in those phone calls, you've had a hell of a lot more problems keeping your Fidonet access running than your Internet access. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Peter Bradie Area: Public Key Encryption To: Jerome Greene 19 Mar 95 17:23:02 Subject: Re: bluewave & pgp UpdReq -=> Quoting Jerome Greene to Peter Bradie <=- PB> ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 JG> ^^^^ BTW this version is quite old. 2.12 JG> fixes a lot of problems with QWK JG> processing. Thanks for the tip. Not quite certain, under the circumstances, that I'd want to register another unsupported piece of software. ... "I drank what!?!" --- Socrates ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Alan Pugh Area: Public Key Encryption To: Lowell Barger 16 Mar 95 19:09:36 Subject: RSA inquiry ... UpdReq -=> Lowell Barger was saying something about RSA inquiry ... LB> What is the difference between RSA and PGP? Is PGP much better than LB> RSA? you'll probably get lots of answers to your request, but i'll toss my 2 cents in anyway... pgp uses an rsa algorythm in it. it also uses 'idea'. the reason it uses both is that the public-key rsa algorythm is pretty slow, and idea is relatively fast. the actual work of the encryption of the dara is done with 'idea'. once the data is encrypted, rsa encrypts the idea session key. the rsa portion also provides a method of transmitting keys in a non-secure environment. one quick way of seeing how this works is to encrypt a message to a person. then encrypt the same message to 2 people. then do it again to 3 or 4. then look at the sizes of the resulting files. you will notice that adding more people does not double or triple the size of the file, it just adds a bit to it. i can't remember exactly how much at the moment, but if you try it, you will see that the amount of extra bytes are really just multiple encryptions of the session key. there will only be one idea key, but there will be several rsa keys to the idea key. (i think that makes sense) if i've made any gross errors, i'm quite sure i'll be corrected here. amp <0003701548@mcimail.com> March 16, 1995 19:9 ... Gun Control: A Logic-Free Philosophy. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718