From: jim bell Area: Public Key Encryption To: GEORGE HANNAH 6 Sep 94 16:58:00 Subject: Re: RSA Broken UpdReq -=> Quoting George Hannah@1:255/7.0 to Wes Landaker@1:105/105 <=- -=> Quoting Wes Landaker to Bob Reddert <=- WL> It can be done with a small key, with a _lot_ of computing power, yes. WL> But unless there is a phenominal break in technology suddenly, it's not WL> going to happen with PGP. =) GH> So it's probably safe to say that PGP will be able to keep ahead of GH> "brute force" computing power by adding brute force keys - 1024 bits, GH> 2048 bits etc. Well, the current best systems for factoring large numbers are FAR better than "brute force" systems. For example, the factoring of a 430-bit number (equal in size to that recently factored to "break" a particular RSA key) would presumably take an average of 2**214 "tests" if you checked every number up to sqrt-N, or perhaps 1/1000 of that if you could somehow only check prime numbers. Even that is somewhere around 2**200, or a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion. The fact that such a factorization could have been done in a "reasonable" amount of time should warn us that further improvement may be possible. ... Way Too Much is Not Nearly Enough. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jim Bell Area: Public Key Encryption To: All 8 Sep 94 17:34:00 Subject: Please respond... UpdReq I'm testing a local bbs's connection to FIDOnet. Please respond with a short note. Thanks. ... Way Too Much is Not Nearly Enough. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ed Wilkie Area: Public Key Encryption To: All 9 Sep 94 19:41:00 Subject: revoking? UpdReq (Ed Wilkie uses PGP) I uploaded my key to the drop echo a while back and when I wanted to revoke it I realized I was having a problem. PGP said something about a revoke key certificate but absolutly nothing on how it's done. It showed revoked in the pub and sec, but where does the certifiacte come from? A mute point really considering I've changed my key several times already experimenting and 1 HD crash without a backup. Still someday I'll have to get this right:) ... I would not hurt thee, but thou standest where I am about to shoot ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Wes Landaker Area: Public Key Encryption To: George Hannah 7 Sep 94 21:14:30 Subject: RSA Broken UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello George! 02 Sep 94 19:53, George Hannah wrote to Wes Landaker: WL> It can be done with a small key, with a _lot_ of computing WL> power, yes. But unless there is a phenominal break in WL> technology suddenly, it's not going to happen with PGP. =) GH> So it's probably safe to say that PGP will be able to keep ahead GH> of "brute force" computing power by adding brute force keys - GH> 1024 bits, 2048 bits etc. Yeah, basically. If they every get close to breaking at 384-bit key (the weakest PGP key) I'll revoke my old key, and move on up to a 2048-bit key or something like that--although I'm sure by the time they even nick 384-bit keys, I'll have moved up several times already. ;) wjl [Team OS/2] * 1:202/1822@fidonet.org * 371:30/1@chnet.ftn * * wjl@f1822.n202.z1.fidonet.org * PGP Key: AD2254A5 * FREQ: PGPKEY * -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6a iQCVAwUBLm6P/8lPrmStIlSlAQGRFAQAjNV14G8IclfP6MlNXWFd1K9OR7ChgUU9 7TUUny+qCVEyGLLFzXSiJ86Ue1/dKJ2IcClPynoBnDCbZ2dVqWPhSZT52rY1mYKc JNzDETeSgpA3XvGSQR2FXhSZRtjrTUiSh46wD+7e/orqtS0hF8Qu6VIrBb3SS/x2 jWpH7d1P19M= =Z3Wy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Wes Landaker Area: Public Key Encryption To: Shawn McMahon 7 Sep 94 21:18:22 Subject: Pres/vice pres UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello Shawn! 02 Sep 94 14:22, Shawn McMahon wrote to Carl Hudkins: SM> He will probably have a Clipper key, and will of course *NOT* SM> have his key-parts on file with the "appropriate" agencies, but SM> nobody anywhere will use that key for truly secret SM> communications; it'll just be for public relations and the net. Oh, I'm sure he'll have his key-parts on file, just to make a show of it--but I can guarantee you that he sure won't be _using_ that key for anything. wjl [Team OS/2] * 1:202/1822@fidonet.org * 371:30/1@chnet.ftn * * wjl@f1822.n202.z1.fidonet.org * PGP Key: AD2254A5 * FREQ: PGPKEY * -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6a iQCVAwUBLm6QmMlPrmStIlSlAQG93gQAo+uc+EsmnvefkaummbA3RwUhUK7c0N0I BpySabcXrveKN5xyzjMB6D7iQYPmtjz/l6P9avdz1IteEQh4GbAXwXWe3VSNd84U 7ebhxG+McLo+n7wKM3/gnQIM9V+jG3sCIlytftRNDQfz+jrD1niX/wqFrj4F4MXZ Zlt4AIpA7Lc= =i31a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Wes Landaker Area: Public Key Encryption To: Richard Walker 10 Sep 94 10:20:48 Subject: New to PGP UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello Richard! 31 Aug 94 22:43, Richard Walker wrote to Wes Landaker: RW> There is no in transit mail on my system. I am not a RW> distributor, my system has no capability to route netmail or RW> handle routed netmail. In fact, if you tried to route a netmail RW> message through my system, I think it would disapear into the RW> twilight zone, as it'll never get scanned back out, and my RW> maintanance software deletes netmail messages pretty quickly, and RW> as it is likely not addressed to me, I'll never even know it was RW> there. Well then, that stops you from having to worry about in-transit mail from other systems; but do you provide netmail access to your users? :) It's the same thing, there, too. RW> My point here is that I do not believe there is anything in ECPA RW> which prevents software from bouncing email which has encrypted RW> signatures or encrypted message text. It prevents people from RW> reading and disclosing the text of your message. The ECPA mentions using a "device or component." Personally, I think that covers a computer, using software. :) RW> Besides, how would you prove that I read it?? WL> _I_ don't have to prove it. _I_ don't work for any law enforcement agency. WL> Anyway and besides, a message or two ago, you confessed. =) RW> No, my friend, I did not. You are exagerating. To be bluntly RW> plain here: RW> 1.) I don't read any mail on my system not addressed to me, RW> public or private. RW> 2.) Any mail not addressed to me will never be read by anyone, RW> ever. Great! Then there isn't any problem, is there? :) WL> It's still censoring, and I don't believe you can do that WL> either to in-transit mail without taking responsibility for WL> ALL of it's contents. RW> Again, I have never said that I'm not willing to take full RW> responsibilty for the contents of all messages on my system. How can you, if you don't know the contents? Hypothetically, if I logged on as a user, and sent another one of your users private mail about something liablous or illegal, does that make you liable? I don't think it should, but if you _want_ to take responsbility for it . . . RW> Your Honor, I neither read, nor censor, any mail; PERIOD. If RW> people want to include encrypted data that screws up my mail RW> handling software, I can't stop them, but I'm certainly not RW> responsible for doing anything more than making an effort at RW> returning the message to the sender. How does encrypted data screw up your mail handling software? If that's so, personally I'd be much more willing to switch software than take get mess up in court about it. :) Anyway, maybe it really _is_ okay to have software censor private mail--but _I_ should don't want to be the fore-running conviction on it--especially since, as far as I've read and heard legal opinion on the ECPA, it's _not_ legal. wjl [Team OS/2] * 1:202/1822@fidonet.org * 371:30/1@chnet.ftn * * wjl@f1822.n202.z1.fidonet.org * PGP Key: AD2254A5 * FREQ: PGPKEY * -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6a iQCVAwUBLnHrqslPrmStIlSlAQGYmAP9HTvoRSf5UKyhMdGx/9cnLT1Sg7NGpdRo U0f9C1bBFPH2Hpj/6GXo6uCuv7fFDZNtVXtCVA8UMO9ThHk2QiDOlt5ZUQyqyfjX ffsYX7ii8Q2o6s2Rc9FYKXuInjA6r+B4gN5Ybf5sPHVJv+7bLZ8bE6qDL2U3SjYl Hsvg3+GVGis= =GvlJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Wes Landaker Area: Public Key Encryption To: Richard Walker 10 Sep 94 10:24:16 Subject: Net 106 still at it? UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello Richard! 31 Aug 94 22:55, Richard Walker wrote to Wes Landaker: WL> Not that I am, and not that they are, but if I were working WL> for a law enforcement agency, and they were trying to "crack WL> down" on this sort of thing, getting a message returned in WL> that sort of way would give _THEM_ more than enough WL> "evidence" to get a warrent, or arrest you, or whatever the WL> hell they want to do. =) RW> They can get a warrant and arrest you without going to that much RW> trouble. All they gotta do is say some kid thinks he saw a RW> grenade through your window and they can go in with a SWAT team RW> and waste you while you sit typeing at your computer. Nevermind that fact that my windows allow zero-visibility of anything by the ceiling from outside, thus eliminating this posibility entirely (in the legal sense, anyway); even if they come looking for a grenade, they aren't going to find one. :) RW> Personally, if I were to be a gambling person, I'd put higher RW> bucks on this happening to someone who uses PGP than someone who RW> refuses to deliver PGP signed mail for someone else. There is no legal document regulating the use of encryption in the United States, as far as I know. There is, however, a document regulating electronic private mail: the ECPA. :) WL> Like I said before: I don't think you can do that, legally. RW> Then your netmail message can't be routed, period; as the mailing RW> software *HAS* to read the entire datafile in order to handle it. But it doesn't _censor_ the messages. If you were deleting every message that came through your system that constained the words "hello" and "bye," I think you'd probably run into a little trouble. :) You'd probably be pretty upset if the phone company set up a little device to make your phone conversations disconnect whenever you said the word "okay," wouldn't you? I sure would be! =) RW> Just because you get a signed message bounced back to you, RW> does not prove that it was read by anyone unauthorized to RW> do so. WL> As surely as you've read this message, someone did. Maybe WL> that isn't _PROOF_, but it's pretty damn close. :) RW> Don't see as how the action in regards to a public posting to an RW> echmail conference has anything to do with the handling of RW> private netmail. You quoted my message, and replied to it's content. The person I was talked about, QUOTED my message, and told me not to send encrypted traffic through his system. Maybe he didn't _READ_ it, just as you may have not _READ_ my last message--but at the very least, eyes had to stare at my message when it's in the same screenful of a message as the response to it. :) You might as print out someones private mail, and write comments about what he wrote on the paper, then try to say you never read the mail, 'because it's the same exact thing. =) wjl [Team OS/2] * 1:202/1822@fidonet.org * 371:30/1@chnet.ftn * * wjl@f1822.n202.z1.fidonet.org * PGP Key: AD2254A5 * FREQ: PGPKEY * -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6a iQCVAwUBLnHu7MlPrmStIlSlAQFdBgQAm9zKEULsKIcq0MLeDbKkWCmqUz8dHC0C K8/GPFj9X9PM/aD4J2HF59/nx0CH64jQlIiGQYXOIxi8UyxgsL5t1lKrlM0E5yE6 OZNMvX9jZCpvNwQPxv6DMU489OjS7FzdzzrlGjXtTrZ01MnGez32jC6QOOtNPKgE US/vgAwAeJM= =gJ14 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Richard Godbee Area: Public Key Encryption To: Shawn K. Quinn 10 Sep 94 07:05:58 Subject: My key... UpdReq Shawn, -=> Quoting Shawn K. Quinn to Richard Godbee... <=- RG> I have one or two AKA's on my key as of now. If I were to delete an [-snip-] SKQ> The key itself will not change. You can do "pgp -kvc [your_userid]" SKQ> before and after to verify this. The answer, of course, is yes, you can SKQ> still decrypt messages sent to you using that key. I've done what you SKQ> describe before with absolutely no ill effects. Thank you very much! --Ricky Godbee, Jr. richard.godbee@bmtmicro.com ..."I have no idea what that meant." --Dot Warner ___RATS 2.1 with 2025 taglines. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Scott Mills Area: Public Key Encryption To: Jess Williams 11 Sep 94 11:02:00 Subject: ENCRYPTION... UpdReq Tuesday August 30 1994, Jess Williams writes to George Hannah: JW> They Cracked ONE RSA Key that used a key size of 129 DIGITS. JW> If they generated a second key of the same length it would probably JW> take them about the same amout of time and work to crack the second JW> key. PGP lets you choose key size up to "about" 1024 BITS. JW> I'm not sure how many digits a 1024 bit key would be but I know that Some versions will make keys much larger than 1024. Scott Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake!!! Scott Mills 1024/26CD5D03 PGP fingerprint = 13 D6 FF 43 53 3D 54 7B 94 D0 6B F4 24 13 E5 BD sm@f119.n265.z1.fidonet.org --- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christopher Baker Area: Public Key Encryption To: Shawn Mcmahon 11 Sep 94 20:23:36 Subject: Re: Re: New to PGP UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In a message dated: 10 Sep 94, Shawn Mcmahon was quoted as saying: SM> Progress marches on, Richard; through you or around you, it SM> doesn't care. enough of this thread already. you and Richard argue in Netmail from now on. thanks. TTFN. Chris -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.61 Comment: PGP 2.6.1 is LEGAL in Zone 1! So USE it! [grin] iQCVAwUBLnOfe8sQPBL4miT5AQF8JwP+K1vp3dNQ4GxWwbq4TBfDY90Dby+a0cJo 3M+udLgE2qDgNoxb4RnkwZMBea5GSz8woxN5iVxP/hbldD7cxPuZPXxbAI8oEf/R k+4esoVFJtBWnXPfIusDBBYckQLBCGywH2q8mBbYCnietgUF8q84otnNxgPdMH+/ 5jKbhVgzPOM= =+T9v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Richard Walker Area: Public Key Encryption To: jason carr 11 Sep 94 11:25:24 Subject: Re: New to PGP UpdReq JC> An inspector who opens/reads/jacks with your 1st class letter without a JC> warrant is going down... JC> JC> jason If yall truly believe that, you are more nieve than I thought. Yours truly Richard Walker 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: John Schofield Area: Public Key Encryption To: Alan Pugh 10 Sep 94 10:33:42 Subject: Re: signing my own key. UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- --====-- AP> there was a rather spirited discussion on this very topic here AP> reccently. from what i understand, it helps to self-validate a key. AP> if you look at a binary key with a viewer that can look at such AP> things, you will notice that the name of the person is not encrypted. AP> an fool with the appropriate editor can edit the name on the key and AP> it will still seem to be valid. (i don't know why someone would like AP> to do this. why do some fools write viri?) when you sign your own AP> key, it will fail validation when someone attempts to add it to their AP> keyring. The signatures on your key would not check out if your ID was modified. However, an ID could be ADDED to the keyring, and nobody would be able to know. If you sign all your user ID's, then any un-signed ID is obviously false. AP> i think i got it right anyway. i'm quite sure i'll be corrected if AP> i'm still confused. Yep. {grin} JMS -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 Comment: Call +1-818-345-8640 for information on Keep Out iQCVAwUBLnHs2mj9fvT+ukJdAQGwggP6AxOJh/0UVC85rmrJBi3RwmmqG8dL4JbH U6HrDyJsedQH9hchendNcEP5agrHBy0tCM+bkCgXD7AkWMYnIB3J5Hy98/Dv//gZ 850gz3xQ46uRiX/6/NM/s5kSFiSCq/UUGt15JezskvstJp6xufgCOHLI3mUPDLnE +cgCHNK7gzc= =Pmx7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- **EZ-PGP v1.07 ... I tried an internal modem, but it hurt when I walked. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rick Pali Area: Public Key Encryption To: Christopher Baker 11 Sep 94 17:28:14 Subject: PGP 2.6.1 hatched UpdReq CB> PGP261.ZIP Pretty Good Privacy MIT official bug fix. [PGP] [277K] Though I'm not on the tick list, I apprecaite you making these files available for f'req. Rick. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rick Pali Area: Public Key Encryption To: Christopher Baker 11 Sep 94 17:38:32 Subject: PGP 2.6.1 hatched UpdReq CB> PGP261.ZIP Pretty Good Privacy MIT official bug fix. [PGP] [277K] Though I'm not on the tick list, I appreciate you making these files available for f'req. Rick. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Mullen Area: Public Key Encryption To: All 2 Sep 94 23:24:00 Subject: Question UpdReq I have a question I have this file that I want to attach just my pgp signature to, leaveing the message unencrypted: I'm useing the command PGP -sta +clearsig=on * <- Tribble <- Tribble on drugs * <- Tribble <- Teenage mutant ninja tribble * <- Tribble <- Cloaked Tribble * <- Tribble # <- Electrocuted tribble. * <- Tribble # <- Tribble After Borg Assimilation * <- Tribble # <- Tribble After Meeting Borg * <- Tribble *' <- Tribble with an attitude * <- Tribble *- <- Tribble after male augmentation * <- Tribble */ <- Tribble bandleader! * <- Tribble */ <- Tribble Olympics: Fencing * <- Tribble */ \* <- Tribbles swordfighting * <- Tribble */^ <- Tribble tipping hat * <- Tribble *8 <- Tribble and mama out for stroll * <- Tribble *\ |--| /* <- Tribble polevaulting * <- Tribble *\\ <- Tribble Going Skiing * <- Tribble *^ <- Tribble Praying * <- Tribble *} - | <- Tribble Archery * <- Tribble ** <- Grandpa Tribble with his cane * <- Tribble ** <- Tribble Snorkelling * <- Tribble ** <- Squared tribbles * <- Tribble ,*, <- Tribble with legs showing * <- Tribble ,** <- Tribble peg-leg with cane * <- Tribble -*-*-*-*- <- Tribble kabob * <- Tribble . <- Tribble after a haircut * <- Tribble 0 <- Pregnant Tribble * <- Tribble <*> <- Tribble with shields up * <- Tribble o <- Bald Tribble. * <- Tribble o <- Jean Luc Tribble * <- Tribble o*o <- Tribble bicycling * <- Tribble [*] <- Tribble wearing headphones * <- Tribble \*/ <- Tribble giving up to mugger * <- Tribble ^*^ <- Viking Tribble * <- Tribble _ <- drunk tribble * <- Tribble _ <- Tribble vs. Godzilla * <- Tribble ~*~ <- Tribble in heaven * <- Tribble * <- after the wash cycle * <- Tribble * <- Bald tribble after hairclub vis * <- Tribble ** <- Tribble listening to rock music * <- Tribble ** <- Tribble on a windy day. * <- Tribble * <- Tribble doing jumping jacks * <- Tribble *** <- Sergeant tribble * <- Tribble * <- Tribble in Transporter. * <- Tribble **------ <- Tribble-kabob * <- Tribble * <- Baby Tribble with bottle * <- Tribble * <- Tribble in cap and gown * <- Tribble * <- Tribble Sandwich * <- Tribble * <- Tribble after big dinner * <- Tribble * <- Tribble after Biology lab * <- Tribble * <- Tribble wearing condom * <- Tribble * <- Hare Krishna Tribbles * <- Tribble * <- Tribble with a hula hoop * <- Tribble * <- dissected tribble * <- Tribble * <- Tribble after a close shave * <- Tribble *< o* o* <- Tribbles and Rock! * * * <- Tribbles <- Tribbles on drugs * * * <- Tribbles <- teenage mutant ninja tribbles * * * <- Tribbles <- Cloaked tribbles * * * <- Tribbles *' *' *' <- Tribbles with an attitud * * * <- Tribbles ** ** ** <- Tribbles snorkelling. * * * <- Tribbles ** ** ** <- Squared tribbles * * * <- Tribbles . . . <- Tribbles after a haircut * * * <- Tribbles o o o <- Bald tribbles * * * <- TribbleS o o o <- Tribbles after hair cut! * * * <- Tribbles o* o* o* <- Tribbles on a windy day * * * <- Tribbles _ _ _ <- after fight with Godzilla * * * <- Tribbles _ _ _ <- Tribbles Meet Godzilla * * * <- Tribbles ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ <- Tribbles in heaven * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- after the wash cycle * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- Tribbles after the wash * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- after hairclub visit * * * <- Tribbles ** ** ** <- Tribbles on a windy day. * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- Hari Krishna tribbles * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- Tribbles doing jumping jacks * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- after being stuck in elevator * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- Tribbles after Biology lab * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- Tribbles wearing condoms * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- Hare Krishna Tribbles * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- Tribbles on drugs. * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- Tribbles with hula hoops * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- dissected tribbles * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- Minimized Tribbles. * * * <- Tribbles * * * <- Tribbles after a haircut * * * <- Tribbles ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ <- Tribbles in heaven. * . . . . . <- Tribble Mother and Young * <- Tribble . <- Tribble after Jenny Craig * <- Tribble __ <- Tribble vs. Godzilla *****************Dang*Tribbles****************** ********* <* Heavy-Weight Tribble Lifter. */ \* <- Tribble Olympics: Fencing. */ \* <- Tribbles having a swordfight *// *// *// <- Tribbles Going Skiing *8 *8 *8 <- Tribbles and mamas out for a stroll. *> - | <- Tribble Archery *\\ *\\ *\\ <- Tribbles Going Skiing *^ *^ <- Tribbles Praying *}- <- Tribble Olympics: Archery ** <- Grandpa Tribble with his cane ** ** <- Tribbles Snorkelling ******* Darn! Only one thoroughbred Tribble left! <-*-o-*-o-*-o-*-o-*--- Tribble & onion kabob. and this is what I get: it's even called what gives, is it a combination of commands that is overriding the main command ???? -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.3a owGVV02MFEUUBsRIUMTEwMEYU8T4kw4zKweVkAVkQUFkBV2iUdZda7pru2unp2qs rt51cBfl4MF4IIg/0bBGxYQTKiHxB8VNzCaaKMSDFzh5EAMsa9bECIZgfF0909M1 Xd2s/bonk9fv66p6Ve977702760F188rD03sO/yV9/tH39/26vz5p7677srCc2uH P3iWnPntxiXjZ07ccmL/VHDT+BMH73p//abw6IOrXvfWfv7o8m/uP/71oat3rL7i 7On9ou+ngd5fvly0073wuLN87OIrY6OnFpVX7X3xj1/XD1yafOD2e7dNHnt5+OMd yw7uOixmj75Eat8+dOjt3Xt7jr8zPfPGj+/98POlhUv/vuGIfH7TxT8/PHLrRGWh s6ZLzoNryWILIdRdQjsFrVR8gqJrqa7iDDkidAOj7bKmihCGXYJqocRMIkbZMEYy tjPiUKza6HNcJU7rldH0zlj1sE9sKbgdSrBvfrpcBGipNgxJIlAPFy7aEAS0Rn0s KWdzh/YSIilz1SeMKOseTTVKpYcwQ1hKKkPHvCqrpKmwGqmGo7+hWyNM5k/S6tJU Fcwcn2CHiBVzMd/uN2p1agdr0COE2bCuPFC/lVIGKBjlwhmirifzMQNplaT1euQ2 D0uz+WrdA8yB9dcw4qFEQ1ygAHbb983QfoTGSqUx1NXxss59MoJDP3+O/f1p1WYe zbCvSnPtBzTVDoEbuabjCJWiP2P6GRK2R0TDDJlUqs0CFl/H+gHyaIBszHJOz2lN 1ce4qBLfz53aVaXqeyHEoh095oheaa3MHGafuHAAPD6aN8BK6y9tG4hbAkwMzl1E yWpKQgett1Vc4RUjpowMYYPhjFEBzGCE3Berdgjisoicirim21qXWXzgUeI7AQrr RgiPVT3YT2isXGS4lQA1bAvtwnlwi2shTu2Gnbu7u6zntEkTLFTcASfUPc5y9rkf QjylculIBArrSHKgcdclwggbOKCC/ClajcyL1jAYqyB3sGphLhjUVSNBGeLS2U19 Hxvt91h70irKoqWOEDNZ7o9V8UGRHrgHB3AmwZ3myRxIbafUTpk6Y35YQSPU7NE3 ZzWVTwNJWOQl8Cgkriq4NaD2XKCQcjEcPuY0kIMb5uM0oascxWTDYU1x7jC2q+ZJ fmJ9qqiACJdE0VC0MZ/pKnD0TmCqoM4F+MM8q5MnSwsSSb8t5cf02ZbLKw098ipc ypypnctMzcZ1lUNcPsrmAukD41Fqe0bb8yaaqVAXOZSxnMgwYnoo97nbQD42r/2C rmrFrs2Zw2tGxHSs2gJMjh4TNPBYkjjMOz7TMYSqTpAX+vDDuZnUZpuxS4MAqq52 yjAaXzYtHCPb5wEB9oTQNML+7UY3A9PNqiddaUS7+CTEiypnIkm/hOo0krQqXaBm zJcpAZUsKFHN0PhKVamF1lAExnda21EKmoGnm7dWbbUzetmMutq8c/J6BlBWovk5 mzwzKK6kgxANA/SlTDsGiD6P4Pvm7YS9j++OHU3xnxE3qCRhdlWYxu5O5458WKKK qvtiTJRvWk/6hZZ4Mqj9SgpSTz6iw4EJ1Ig6oCQZJ52lqHlP351t3vkuN5+5CSUx +dCEfApPXQJJVDmJKoM8piRZV4VE5oEMIY+C40lU50sujNDzSrKO7CDjDO6CEi1+ NT42T3RaSRElZyAXlZg4zOz4GSUZYkk43DzKrBITjZvtLysBVS9l0CbvbvflOdP6 R8n/pJRrRpMaq5yIljd6OQSDUBniGR7G9XBHWtFIrjmhrYSxBtooMM0iBtN00Fl8 dl6bMHOt1pQzby2FmNo3Bb9x7phCW2BNjdLTRPFTa5RtdKhZQak2O5VqWhaZLr3A OAB3q+Idp5r0yLwLtR7dvKPrXY3iO/PZVkseJD05bnbl0WzWtdvdnIYXeu3WUziB AdVmG9bVbrfHSwgZTFJ+ag87iXTba7XXKvmahtfb6unz587OQNW9CQu2AqHtzG9A 2BKgZy546HoV0Q4Y6JiHooTXDd0t73hK0VJadnfDJygEv6qOwatLFv8H =hYuI -----END PGP MESSAGE----- ... And the Prince and Princess lived happily... well, for eleven days.. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Richard Walker Area: Public Key Encryption To: Shawn K. Quinn 11 Sep 94 03:52:52 Subject: Re: New to PGP UpdReq SK> 5.) Recipient finds out that postal inspector read letter through snitch SK> 6.) Recipient calls federal prosecuting attorney SK> 7.) Stupid postal inspector gets a good look at some metal bars You sure trust big brother, now don't you.... RW>> Besides, a letter costs about $.40, a direct crash sent email will RW>> cost you only $.23 even instate and during the business hours. So RW>> if you want security, send it direct. SK> Hold on now, wait a minute. When did the postal service go up 11 cents SK> on a SK> normal letter? LTIC, it was 29 cents. Yes, this was _AFTER_ I got back. Some of us actually have to buy our own envelopes, paper, and pens. SK> I have heard of some outrageous rates for intrastate LD. Like 80 SK> cents/min or SK> some such. I've heard of it actually being cheaper to call international SK> than across the state. Yeah, and I've heard of people useing gold embossed stationary, so whats your point? If some carrier is charging you 80 cents / min then you need to dump that carrier. SK> Sending encrypted mail direct almost defeats the whole purpose anyway. Neet how that works, eh? Yours truly Richard Walker 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Richard Walker Area: Public Key Encryption To: Shawn K. Quinn 11 Sep 94 03:56:16 Subject: Re: Net 106 still at it? UpdReq RW>> Now what is it, other than providing the only co-op distribution RW>> point RW>> for the PGP related echos that you don't like about my actions? SK> The fact that you are hinting that you read all mail passing through SK> your system. Nope. The only hinting I have done is to state, quite truthfully, that no mail flows through my system *at all*. I am an END NODE, remember what that means??? Messages come *TO* this system and don't go anywhere else. Add to that the fact that I am the only human being with access to the message system on this computer; and I think you end up with a situation in which it is virtually impossible for me to violate the ECPA. To state once again for the mentally impaired, I read no mail passing through my system because their is NO MAIL passing through my system. None. Zilch. Nada. Goose-egg. Zero. I don't know how much more clearly I can state this absolute fact. SK> You have every right in this country to express your ideas. However, SK> that DOES SK> NOT change the fact that the ideas you express are ILLEGAL. Ideas are not illegal. Certain actions may or may not be illegal. I remain unconvinced that any action based upon my ideas is illegal for various reasons which continuously seem to elude you, and that I am tired of trying to state. The simple fact is that no fidonet operator, distrubutor, or coordinator has ever been convicted of an ECPA violation in regards to PGP bouncing, etc. THAT is a fact. It is indisputable. Let me know if it ever changes. Anything else you might state is babble not worthy of even the title of "urban legend". Yours truly Richard Walker 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Richard Walker Area: Public Key Encryption To: Shawn McMahon 11 Sep 94 04:16:06 Subject: Re: New to PGP UpdReq SM> If I'm wrong and you follow my advice, all that happens is some messages SM> you can't read go through your system, with no consequences likely. Better off simply terminating the availability of routed netmail. That solves the problem start to finish. SM> It's conjectured (again, by experts) that you can CREATE some liability, SM> if you work hard enough at it. Such as making a policy of examining SM> mail contents, even by device. Considering McD's just got nailed for 2+mil for some lady spilling coffee on herself, I'd say the liability is very real. Yours truly Richard Walker 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Carl Hudkins Area: Public Key Encryption To: Christopher Baker 9 Sep 94 16:17:28 Subject: Intermail mangling... UpdReq I demand that CHRISTOPHER BAKER may or may not have said CB> "Badly formed Armor checksum" is what is reported here on your mangled CB> signature block. Thank you for confirming that outgoing stuff is also being pureed. :) I won't bother signing any of my posts here until we get this fixed. Any InterMail experts out there???? Send mail to Anthony McCullough at the origin below! :) * carl Boca Chica, Florida carl.hudkins@lunatic.com * * RIME ->1282 PGP: 2D1E1E39 Fido: 1:124/2113; 1:135/808 * === * RM 1.3 00377 * "Days like these let you savor a bad mood." --Calvin 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Carl Hudkins Area: Public Key Encryption To: Shawn Mcmahon 9 Sep 94 16:17:30 Subject: Pres/vice pres UpdReq I demand that SHAWN MCMAHON may or may not have said SM> Clinton is unlikely to ever have a PGP key. If he did, and you sent an SM> encrypted message via that route, those same "minor functionaries" would SM> simply fail to give it to him, more than likely. I know -- 'twas a mere pipe dream! :) SM> He will probably have a Clipper key [...] Really? At the rate Clipper is foundering (if I can believe what I read), hopefully it won't be implemented until long after he's out of office -- even if I'm optimistic and plan on his getting re-elected! SM> [...] but nobody anywhere will use that key for truly secret SM> communications [...] By Clipper's very definition, nobody will use it for truly secret comms. The probability waveform will always include the ear of good old Big ... Oy. Can you say "topic drift"? :> * carl Boca Chica, Florida carl.hudkins@lunatic.com * * RIME ->1282 PGP: 2D1E1E39 Fido: 1:124/2113; 1:135/808 * === * RM 1.3 00377 * "Dead? No excuse for laying off work!" --Supreme Being 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Carl Hudkins Area: Public Key Encryption To: Richard Walker 9 Sep 94 16:17:30 Subject: Question or two UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- (This one I'll sign anyway, because of its content.) I demand that RICHARD WALKER may or may not have said RW> I don't think you understand, in fido technology messages, the content RW> HAS to be examined by software with a fine tooth comb in order to RW> properly deliver or return a message to its sender. That is just the RW> way it is, and there is no way around it. [...] Sure there is. Routing information is "hidden" behind codes, right? All the software has to do, in that case, is check the first character of each line (though AFAIK such info is usually put at the very beginning or end of a message) and see if it's ASCII-001. If not, ignore it. In other words, do what the standards require and go your merry way. Quite simple, and even someone like me, who's been programming in C for approximately an hour (if I round up :) can write a routine to do that. It's also very simple to put Boolean operators in there to look for things like "PGP", "Satan", "*#^%#*^$", etc. and send messages off to La-La Land. Ooops! Joe Recipient gets a Netmail containing half a garbled root directory listing and the word "albatross" -- darn the bad luck! Looks like that screwy Fido software ate somebody's hard drive again.... CH> [... certain people] basically defy us to get them convicted. I don't CH> know whether to be happy or sad that I don't live within their CH> jurisdiction -- I might just try it. Somebody needs to! RW> You can bark all you want [...] Of course -- this is, after all, Fido net. :) (And my home system is turning all the echoes into Puppy Chow, too.) RW> but this is like saying that you believe you can get a felony RW> conviction for Joe Average with a computer and a modem who refuses to RW> deliver your mail; so far there have been none, and likely there will be RW> none as long as no human being reads someone elses private mail. I don't believe I =could= get a conviction, if I had the time, money, or [BLEEP] to try. However, I certainly feel that some example needs to be made, in order to demonstrate that the ECPA is not just empty words. If I were a lawyer, I might myself have more than empty words. I'd also rather it were on the behalf of Joe-Bob Normal, being spied on and harassed by his SysOp, than the ACLU defending the rights of his neighbor, Mr Kiddie Porn, who also sells guns on the black market in his spare time, and conducts his business via E-mail on the local network. People tend to be more sympathetic toward Joe-Bob, but some laws don't get much publicity until a weirdo comes along to stress-test them. Please note that the above topic drift is, though dealt with under the same laws, hopefully quite a long distance from what takes place on the systems in question in my original writing. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 Comment: Would you send mail without an envelope? iQCVAwUBLnC/o75BFpotHh45AQG/IgQA2hgxvqgBrJ+h9nNmLx1U5WOMuCplY3HY IoxRJRUzrku67JGrRQx6TZVjdvb2i+RUCN1+x2KRae8yX5c1Ugbv2prdTZq8r+h0 LgxKykMgP3z6lOd8Sxot2frfFQcQoLPd1W7n+DftG4Bm1nkabwJN0coeFsV9e9op uF7fj9NMofo= =BHtL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- * carl Boca Chica, Florida carl.hudkins@lunatic.com * * RIME ->1282 PGP: 2D1E1E39 Fido: 1:124/2113; 1:135/808 * === * RM 1.3 00377 * "Did the table do something wrong?" --Troi 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Carl Hudkins Area: Public Key Encryption To: Carl Hudkins 10 Sep 94 04:19:10 Subject: Intermail mangling... UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On (09 Sep 94) Carl Hudkins wrote to Christopher Baker... CH> --- InterEcho 1.01/b03 Hm. I can't say I like that much better than the wrapped ones... :) (Reposts follow!) carl Boca Chica, Florida carl.hudkins@lunatic.com RIME ->1282 PGP: 2D1E1E39 Fido: 1:124/2113; 1:135/808 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 Comment: Would you send mail without an envelope? iQCVAwUBLnFsWb5BFpotHh45AQEvmgP8C2YE5feET82RLrlfeBwBshVxQ2rz4/Cs Js9gGYL7o0qZ8VaRpaET+9mWmfyXnz5b6EKrSGHIhRi7TR2aNLoJ0ZIfsJ5bl4gv CLa9kaROYHPXb7chjLFJSY5ppCePZNehYPUBdd6i+wQ5cCroyZZhEIHXlcS6Us7E bDGKMt1Qfw8= =VIC/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- **EZ-PGP v1.07 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Carl Hudkins Area: Public Key Encryption To: Christopher Baker 10 Sep 94 04:28:00 Subject: Intermail Mangling (repost) UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I demand that CHRISTOPHER BAKER may or may not have said CB> "Badly formed Armor checksum" is what is reported here on your mangled CB> signature block. Thank you for confirming that outgoing stuff is also being pureed. :) I have gone back to pointing this echo until we get this fixed. I now lay this thread to rest. Any InterMail experts out there???? Send mail to Anthony McCullough at the bossnode below! :) carl Boca Chica, Florida carl.hudkins@lunatic.com RIME ->1282 PGP: 2D1E1E39 Fido: 1:124/2113; 1:135/808 ... TimeTag * "Another casualty of applied metaphysics." --Hobbes -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 Comment: Would you send mail without an envelope? iQCVAwUBLnFu275BFpotHh45AQFXvwP+NEmyAm/Y5hsjCQ38g3uTB9WOEh9WjeI7 UVDegKgaVYzPbTU2WYORaFUIVqZ7SFjTBSvms5aCobfcuqSmPwIO9AFmeSu11ouy 6uQyTe1iTDdfn9wNXdBMGFdeGZk53qDCXpubVqABUJhFvCdnPEQXhWfIDkSYyfqQ aFWUnX0gkpA= =3pjb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- **EZ-PGP v1.07 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Carl Hudkins Area: Public Key Encryption To: Shawn McMahon 10 Sep 94 04:31:58 Subject: Pres/Vice Pres UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I demand that SHAWN MCMAHON may or may not have said SM> Clinton is unlikely to ever have a PGP key. If he did, and you sent an SM> encrypted message via that route, those same "minor functionaries" would SM> simply fail to give it to him, more than likely. I know -- 'twas a mere pipe dream! :) SM> He will probably have a Clipper key [...] Really? At the rate Clipper is foundering (if I can believe what I read), hopefully it won't be implemented until long after he's out of office -- even if I'm optimistic and plan on his getting re-elected! SM> [...] but nobody anywhere will use that key for truly secret SM> communications [...] By Clipper's very definition, nobody will use it for truly secret comms. The probability waveform will always include the ear of good old Big ... Oy. Can you say "topic drift"? :> carl Boca Chica, Florida carl.hudkins@lunatic.com RIME ->1282 PGP: 2D1E1E39 Fido: 1:124/2113; 1:135/808 ... TimeTag * "Any fool can criticize, and most do." --Carnegie -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 Comment: Would you send mail without an envelope? iQCVAwUBLnFvVb5BFpotHh45AQEDRgP/S/wtBGODziIk7FhxncOzCEzGD0Czu67I f946Zwlwl7x93HA0fxjVE3tFWL/bO42UzY6zFmkgEj3OfxSCDfOPaeZiAlv99fVc jfI+vvuSZ1YtIuq3zJqSFHIbhQBCOe+Y7ga9LXDDdwABZhsv0CXncWSE+5pIXU0p pw6AS9hPBPM= =qAhr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- **EZ-PGP v1.07 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Carl Hudkins Area: Public Key Encryption To: Richard Walker 10 Sep 94 04:59:00 Subject: New to PGP UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On (31 Aug 94) Richard Walker wrote to Tim Bradley... RW> [...] I do occassionally use encryption technology, and can see its RW> usefulness to protect proprietary software, but I have a hard time RW> understanding what possible good it could be in an echomail/netmail RW> message sent over fidonet, except for illicit purposes [...] Just the secure feeling that comes from knowing nobody's going to be able to spy on you. :) Kinda like the reason some people have little locks on their diaries. I may not be discussing national secrets, but I like the option of feeling secure. So, when I have that option, I use it. (Some BBS software -- notably VBBS -- directs mail to the SysOp if it's addressed to that system but not to anyone on it. Also improperly addressed outgoing mail ends up in his box. So if you (are forced to :) use a VBBS system, you might want to encrypt just in case =you= screw up and your mail lands in the SysOp's lap.) carl Boca Chica, Florida carl.hudkins@lunatic.com RIME ->1282 PGP: 2D1E1E39 Fido: 1:124/2113; 1:135/808 ... "Arise, arise! Awake the snorting citizens with the bell..." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 Comment: Would you send mail without an envelope? iQCVAwUBLnF28b5BFpotHh45AQGHgwQA3SKPQnQ4IPW3wP3eVHrCTOtNBmkosZIP 9e5aOkgY6xJInFhCTR2IPdz2Vt7CQrR56mpqp4SYvqdaRqvKoXBSuQ0qLmCZNLo1 4JS/ypF0aKQz35ckU1+rXAaH7t/VnBBYLHpZU16tJI2QaIMN0F5hSW/XgD9zIUkH DPsmCm/6byc= =EIUW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- **EZ-PGP v1.07 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Carl Hudkins Area: Public Key Encryption To: Wes Landaker 10 Sep 94 05:08:04 Subject: Pres/vice pres UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On (05 Sep 94) Wes Landaker wrote to Carl Hudkins... WL> Actually, everything sent to president@whitehouse.gov is printed out and WL> stuck in a pile--probably the same pile where all your SnailMail letters WL> go. The president really never reads (or even _hears_ about, probably) WL> 99% of that stuff. :) Ah, I bet he sees a pie chart every now and then. You know people love their pie charts! WL> Anyway, I think some of these major government officials should get WL> themselves logged onto their local Fidonet BBS where we can get our WL> "hands" on them. =) They =are= logged on. We just ignore their posts because they're in all caps. ;) carl Boca Chica, Florida carl.hudkins@lunatic.com RIME ->1282 PGP: 2D1E1E39 Fido: 1:124/2113; 1:135/808 ... "As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 Comment: Would you send mail without an envelope? iQCVAwUBLnF3z75BFpotHh45AQEBIwP/drBT7xIqD9qNnwI4+ub35yrUOjscdwCT AwuPYqlF8g9E7meHI9EUj9DYA389Kb16z3srR+gCWDA+ryUbHx9MTJWq21eMNtBA 7wEiYVZUhTx3Y10N7cgdxUfFXKVoVr1qufI4HqxRWvCRmyPMoCjPU9XL4FQbSh6P WA/IitzR6yQ= =S4FC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- **EZ-PGP v1.07 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718