From: Sea Queen Area: THE_OASIS To: Gerald Del Campo 24 Sep 92 05:15:06 Subject: Re: RE. HERBAL FREEDOM UpdReq > I'm starting to think there is no difference between Republican and > Democrat. They will both raise taxes, they will both say whatever > it takes to get elected; but while the Republican president will > look out for big business interest overseas, the Democrat will spend > the money here, in America. > There really isn't much of a difference between the two. The both have to cater to people who want to be told that everything is OK, and I will take care of you. But, just for the record, the DEMOCRATS have been saying for 12 years now, that we need to raise taxes and cut foreign spending (including defense) in order to balance the budget and bring down the deficit. The Republicans have been sweeping it all under the rug and placating the people (who are all to happy to be palcated). > I'm in favor of whiping the slate clean and starting over. Perhaps > then a Libertarian could have a snow-ball-of-a-chance-in-hell of > getting elected. > If the Libertarian party could actually institutionalize their platform, that would be the FASTEST way to a police state I can think of. The Libertarian party wants to make government nearly non-existant.And since it is the business of government to protect the people (from foreign powers as well as each other), who would protect us from each other? How would decisions be made? They would be mad by the loudest, meanest, most corrupt, coercive folks around. And there would be NO ONE around with the power to say, "You can't do that to me". The reason businesses, the Klan, the religious right, etc., can't do that NOW is because of......the government. Let's face it. If we were left to ourselves, we'd all be at each others throats. That's what happened in the civil war. > I have been called paranoid for believing that the "burning times" > are coming. People will be helpless against the government with the > big guns, as they taken all of the real effective weapons away from > the citizen; a good first move for a government which is heading > towards totalitarianism. Frankly, I am more afraid of the self-righteous, largely ignorant, paranoid gnn-toting NRA individuals doing the same things they bitch about the government doing...looking out for me and mine! When the government does it it's called beaurocracy. When the NRA types do it it's called individual rights and personal freedom. It boils down to the same temper tantrum. "I want it! I want it! It's MINE!" I have YET to hear one of these paranoid gun folks talk about the COMMON good they hope to accomplish by stockpiling weapons, and ammo. No, I hear them talk about what they will get for THEMSELVES. Protection, food, safety, revenge. FOR THEMSELVES. Now that's really something to build a society on, huh? I think it can be safely agrued thet the current system SUCKS! But let's carefully think about what to replace it with. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Sea Queen Area: THE_OASIS To: Scott Brush 24 Sep 92 05:20:56 Subject: Re: POLITICAL BULLSHIT UpdReq > living in a fascist dictatorship. There hasn't been democracy in > this country since the Wiskey Rebellion of Pennsylvania in 1790. (A Contrary to what you have evidently been taught, we have Never had a democracy in this country. It was, from its original inception, a REPUBLIC. a representative system of government. May the Gods protecxt us from democracy! In this current era of people whose idea of political research is how many 30 second commercials they watch, democracy is nothing short of mob rule. Democracies are run by whoever controls the information. Whoever has the most money, and the loudest and most repetetive voice. Tedious and indirect though it may be, I'll take Republic over Democracy ANY time! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Sea Queen Area: THE_OASIS To: Lewis Cypher 24 Sep 92 05:28:48 Subject: Re: FASCISM U.S.A. UpdReq > Supreme Court with their own people first- people who have contempt > for > individual freedom and a narrow interpretation of the constitution, > and will > do what the Executive Branch tells them to.(1) Then, the FBI and > other secret > police organizations would have to start a program of destroying > domestic > dissent(2). This would include bombing enviornmental groups (Earth > First, > Green Peace) and then blaming the victim for the bomb, assassinating > leaders > of opposing political parties (Black,Indian,Chicano, ect.,), and > discrediting > enemies of the dictators by the use of the corporate media.(3) > (continued...) I don't know why you're surprised. Women aren't. They've been doing thais to us since before the turn of the century when we started making rumblings about getting the vote, recieving information about how our bodies work and how to end and prevent pregnancy. Yes, I'm glad to see it's finally beginning to hit where you are. It's been hitting me and my ancestors for more than a hundred years. Welcome to the fight 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Sea Queen Area: THE_OASIS To: Scott Brush 24 Sep 92 05:45:32 Subject: Re: FASCISM U.S.A. UpdReq > Michael, I think you've shown some insight in your reply to Lewis > Cypher's speech about how awful this country has become. I know of > many who share Lewis' viewpoints and they seem unduly extreme. > While there is no doubt that there are some people out there who are > actively trying to encode their personal beliefs into law, the > situation has not become completely dictatorial. Despite government > crackdowns on drug dealers and anyone else very much out of the > mainstream, I still feel that I enjoy freedom of speech and > religion. I'm not worried that my phone is tapped, my mail is being > read, or that I'm being followed by government agents. > I repeat, as in my reply to Lewis' reply, that while there is danger > of losing our precious rights, there is hope for a better world. > What are we going to do to protect ourselves? Voting and political > activism can only go so far. What can really be done? I agree with you, as well. Things are not hte extremely BAD we've been hearing about here, nor are they the extremely GOOD that we hear from the system in this election year. As my 70 year old widow woman grandmother says, "This is an election year. Remember that. This is as good as the politicians can make it look". That being said, I think after this election, we will know more about what will be available for us directly. Voting was never designed to have an effect at anything more than the local and maybe state level. Political activism is important, but if you only discuss individual issues instead of systemic ideologies, you will go around in circles. It is my VERY humble opinion that what people need to do (and we as pagans have the potential of doing) is to organize into smaller communites. Everywhere. Not out in the sticks, like the survivalists. But everywhere. Then we need to network with each other, not only for support reasons, but for trade, goods, etc. There is no reason we could not learn to function as the Amish do in Pennsylvania and thereabouts, or the Mormons in Utah. I think the problems we are seeing now is the direct result of a system that is devoted to profit and the individual at the expense of community values. If we can develop some system of community, we can have a great deal of hope, NOT for the current system, but of survivng its eventual and certain demise. And surviving it as communities. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Sea Queen Area: THE_OASIS To: Michael Lee 24 Sep 92 06:03:02 Subject: Re: FASCISM U.S.A. UpdReq > P.S. That was _such_ a nice PC touch. You know, that Feminazi B.S. > Now hold on. I had a tendency to be willing to TRY to support your rational, if somewhat rightist, points of view. but....feminazism? It's been my experience that term is exercised by men who are too intimidated by women who are vocally angry about THEIR rights being trampled, ignored, legislated against, or just plain over looked. It was a valid point. Women everywhere in htis country should be asking themselves if this government truly represents them (since it IS a republic and, idealistically should make an attempt at representing the people) when women make up 51% of the populaation and only hold 2% of the Senate and 13% of the House. I'm not saying that congress whould be 51% women, but if they want to convince me, the numbers would have to be a lot closer than THAT that people are considering women as something more than an after thought. And 40 or 50 years before we see a woman in the oval office wuldn't surprise me. Trouble is, in order to get there, she'd probably wind up as bad as her predecessors, 'cuz she'd be one of them..... a politician. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Sea Queen Area: THE_OASIS To: Frater Almost 24 Sep 92 06:04:02 Subject: Re: POLITICAL BULLSHIT Rec'd UpdReq > thing is that if You are Doing your Will then it is powerless > against you for it is written : "True Will unassauged of purpose, > delivered from the lust of result is every way perfect." That > should just about sum it up. Jackal Laughs. 93 Hear, hear! and well said! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Sea Queen Area: THE_OASIS To: Michael Lee 24 Sep 92 06:18:30 Subject: Re: FASCISM U.S.A. UpdReq > Well, if it's not Clinton or Bush, who then? I guess it could be > Perot (but I doubt it). Probably Marou. I'm still undecided at > this point, however.) I'm personally reccommending that if you don't like the two major candidates being offered this year, that you vote for my very best girlfriend in the whole world, Carol Ann Shumaker. I can personally quarantee she will do a better job than anyone else running. To write her in, write, Carol Ann Shumaker San Diego, CA President Good luck, and happy voting. And please don't count too heavily on your power at the ballot box. It just ain't that much. But every now and then..... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: THE_OASIS To: Sea Queen 24 Sep 92 22:40:32 Subject: Re: POLITICAL BULLSHIT UpdReq I knew that a ROyal Personage would soon back me up on this one! ;* :) Jackal Laughs. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718