From: Frater Almost Area: THE_OASIS To: Lewis Cypher 23 Sep 92 01:36:24 Subject: RE: Hello Sent UpdReq Well met, O Worthy Friend! I am glad to see you back on-line! :) Yes.... I've made a few talismans in my time with some starteling results but, as you did suggest, let us retire this conversation unto the NightSide Echo. :) Jackal Laughs. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Scott Brush Area: THE_OASIS To: Gerald Del Campo 22 Sep 92 20:39:56 Subject: FREEDOM VS. THE MASSES UpdReq Dear brother, I have heard you speak and now read your messages about how outraged and disgusted you are at the state of politics and freedom in this country. I understand where you're coming from and share many of your views of what a truly free country would be like. Our government is a self-serving body of greedy, power-hungry, holier-than-thou establishment that seeks to dominate our lives for the benefit of themselves and big business. Everywhere in politics, culture, art and entertainment the mediocre is venerated and encouraged. Take for example, music, a subject of great meaning for me. In my opinion, 1984 was the greatest year in rock-and-roll history, with the full flower of heavy metal coming into being. I have never enjoyed music or its atmosphere more. The irreverence, the disdain of tradition and authority, and the sheer, unashamed joy in the darker side of the soul all served to exalt me to the sky. No form of entertainment could have come closer to realizing my own highest desires than the heavy metal of the early 1980s. Then - POW - Reagan, the PMRC, and the Moral Majority attacked with Christian religious zeal and then the music began to lose its fire. In a few years all the rebel spirit of metal disappeared (with the exception of thrash, which itself became monotonous and stereotyped) to be replaced by a weak, nonthreatening form of average 70s hard rock. I have seen musicians who I admired as heroes sell out for money and fame, making music to please the average to the neglect of their great talent. All my heroes are fallen, even the greatest of them. For years I fumed every day about this and bemoaned the way things are in much the way you have expressed yourself. Every aspect of our culture is geared toward the common man and woman. Exceptional skill and inspiration are not rewarded. The world we live in falls far short of my (and I think your) ideals. At long last I found an answer to the extreme disillusionment that harrassed my soul and the pain of betrayal. It wasn't the fault of only the PMRC and the right-wing Republicans that the original heavy metal gave way to crap. Everyone caused the changes in music, just as all changes of culture take place. Government and religious leaders have no power without the vast numbers of people who are willing to listen and obey. Even I am at fault for not contributing to the genre or speaking out against the repressive forces of the time. Hell, I was a Republican at the time. It is my considered belief that no government, religion, or any cultural institution exists without the will of the people, even the most ruthless dictatorships. Who is one person, any person, against the vast power of the blind masses. It is by playing on the beliefs that people already have that such statesmen come to power, even in the most violent and oppressive regimes. Apply this realization to all aspects of culture. The collective is the most powerful force operating at the surface of reality. No consideration of individuality can stand in the face of this. You and I and people like us have consciously chosen to turn away from the norm and follow our peculiar visions and ideals. We have set ourselves apart from the common run and must suffer the consequences as well as reap the rewards of our farsighted bravery. The masses will never see things our way by the very nature of what they are and what we are. Liber Al vel Legis has much to say on this point. While it is true that "Every man and every woman is a star" it is equally true that the Few and Secret shall rule the Many and the Known. This is a law of nature; not to be bemoaned or denied. I have reached the inescapable conclusion that elitism is the only way for people like us to live and have a hope of achieving our Will. To the masses we will always seem like monsters, living by a different law and a strange nature. More on another message. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Scott Brush Area: THE_OASIS To: Gerald Del Campo 22 Sep 92 20:48:38 Subject: FREEDOM VS. THE MASSES II UpdReq There would not be such a widespread terror of occultism and alternative spiritualities if people didn't already believe in the lies fed back to them by power mongers. You may disagree with me on these points but what I have stated are the laws of nature, good or ill. To rage against reality is to waste energy and cause internal frustration. It doesn't do any good. I tried it for years. As agents of Thelema among humans we have a greater perspective on life and have different standards of what is right. We can lead a life among the masses if we observe the laws of nature ad the vital power of silence. My own experience in living alone these past few years have clearly shown how useful it is to be able to act in secret. Very much work has been done that would have been hampered by the presence of roommates. This is just a microcosmic example of the overall principal I've been talking about. We can accomplish our True Wills in any society, in any culture in this way. However, it will mean persecution and death to rage at the masses for being the way they are and demanding that they live by a personal law that is alien to them, no matter how right it may seem. Send me a message or call me to give your thoughts on what I have said. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: THE_OASIS To: Scott Brush 23 Sep 92 16:48:38 Subject: Re: FREEDOM VS. THE MASSES UpdReq In a message dated 22 Sep 92 20:39:57, Scott Brush wrote: SB> Dear brother, SB> I have heard you speak and now read your messages about how outraged SB> and disgusted you are at the state of politics and freedom in this SB> country. I understand where you're coming from and share many of SB> your views of what a truly free country would be like. Our SB> government is a self-serving body of greedy, power-hungry, SB> holier-than-thou establishment that seeks to dominate our lives for SB> the benefit of themselves and big business. Everywhere in politics, SB> culture, art and entertainment the mediocre is venerated and SB> encouraged. IMHO This is a result of the belief perpetuated by the last 2,000 years or so, that we are not to question those in authority because they are looking out for OUR best interest. I ask you: how could a man who has never had to struggle to get his family to a doctor, or put food on the table, or worry about how he will pay the rent be a "representative" for those of us who struggle? Christianity has become the shield that crooked politicians hide behind when they are trying to get backing from "the people". The lame and uneducated watch their smiling trustful faces on television while they talk about "family values", shit... Bush even stooped as low as to read a letter from a woman who lost her son on the Iraq conflict and cried; something he should have thought about before sending OUR soldiers to fight a war for the rich. Better yet, since he professes to be a "Christian"; where are is his tears for compassion to the innocent people of Iraq? And the glossy eyed morons just shake their heads in agreement, praising the Lord that the price of gasoline is the lowest in the US than in any other countries. SB> Take for example, music, a subject of great meaning for me. In my SB> opinion, 1984 was the greatest year in rock-and-roll history, with SB> the full flower of heavy metal coming into being. I have never SB> enjoyed music or its atmosphere more. The irreverence, the disdain SB> of tradition and authority, and the sheer, unashamed joy in the SB> darker side of the soul all served to exalt me to the sky. No form SB> of entertainment could have come closer to realizing my own highest SB> desires than the heavy metal of the early 1980s. You are not alone here. In the 80's I was a starving musician trying to make a few bucks by playing the Hollywood clubs. SB> Then - POW - Reagan, the PMRC, and the Moral Majority attacked with SB> Christian religious zeal and then the music began to lose its fire. SB> In a few years all the rebel spirit of metal disappeared (with the SB> exception of thrash, which itself became monotonous and stereotyped) SB> to be replaced by a weak, nonthreatening form of average 70s hard SB> rock. I have mixed feelings about this. It is true that censorship in ANY way is not to be tolerated, however, it is those individuals that lack musical creative talent and sell music based on "shock value" that push our Constitutional rights to the limits with very little thought for the effect of their actions. When your lyrics condone rape, murder, and dope dealing you must (unless you have a mental diability of some sort) know that some Christian-heterosexual-caucasian senator from the "good 'ol boy" states is going to legislate against you. A few screw things up for the many... why? because censorship and Constitutional right violations are small prices to pay for fame and fortune. SB> I have seen musicians who I admired as heroes sell out for money and SB> fame, making music to please the average to the neglect of their SB> great talent. Hehe. Yeah, like when you see Vince Neal (the guy that killed the drummer for hanoy Rocks while driving young) All my heroes are fallen, even the greatest of them. SB> For years I fumed every day about this and bemoaned the way things SB> are in much the way you have expressed yourself. Every aspect of SB> our culture is geared toward the common man and woman. Exceptional SB> skill and inspiration are not rewarded. The world we live in falls SB> far short of my (and I think your) ideals. SB> At long last I found an answer to the extreme disillusionment that SB> harrassed my soul and the pain of betrayal. It wasn't the fault of SB> only the PMRC and the right-wing Republicans that the original heavy SB> metal gave way to crap. SB> Everyone caused the changes in music, just as all changes of culture SB> take place. Government and religious leaders have no power without SB> the vast numbers of people who are willing to listen and obey. Even SB> I am at fault for not contributing to the genre or speaking out SB> against the repressive forces of the time. Hell, I was a Republican SB> at the time. SB> It is my considered belief that no government, religion, or any SB> cultural institution exists without the will of the people, even the SB> most ruthless dictatorships. Who is one person, any person, against SB> the vast power of the blind masses. It is by playing on the beliefs SB> that people already have that such statesmen come to power, even in SB> the most violent and oppressive regimes. SB> Apply this realization to all aspects of culture. The collective is SB> the most powerful force operating at the surface of reality. No SB> consideration of individuality can stand in the face of this. You SB> and I and people like us have consciously chosen to turn away from SB> the norm and follow our peculiar visions and ideals. We have set SB> ourselves apart from the common run and must suffer the consequences SB> as well as reap the rewards of our farsighted bravery. The masses SB> will never see things our way by the very nature of what they are SB> and what we are. SB> Liber Al vel Legis has much to say on this point. While it is true SB> that "Every man and every woman is a star" it is equally true that SB> the Few and Secret shall rule the Many and the Known. This is a law SB> of nature; not to be bemoaned or denied. I have reached the SB> inescapable conclusion that elitism is the only way for people like SB> us to live and have a hope of achieving our Will. To the masses we SB> will always seem like monsters, living by a different law and a SB> strange nature. More on another message. SB> --- TBBS v2.1/NM SB> * Origin: TahutiNet - Baphomet Lodge OTO, Los Angeles CA SB> (1:102/645) SB> SEEN-BY: 93/93 102/645 120/418 125/51 159/700 202/311 203/444 266/72 SB> 278/666 SB> SEEN-BY: 666/666 1000/1 2000/1 9000/1 9400/0 SB> ... RPSTOVAL OASIS: Free your mind; your ass will follow. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: THE_OASIS To: Michael Lee 23 Sep 92 17:45:38 Subject: Re: Fascism U.S.A. UpdReq In a message dated 20 Sep 92 18:15:24, The Mule wrote: TM> "We" have complete control. It's called the ballot box. Look, TM> life's a bitch when you're in the minority. It's tough when you want TM> to do something that your society has collectively ruled taboo. Yet TM> what's the alternative? Do you want every Tom, Dick, or Harry making TM> decisions that impact everyone, even if those same decisions are TM> opposed by the majority of those being affected? If you want the TM> latter form of government, then you are inherently in favor of TM> dictatorships, because dictators do what they want regardless of what TM> the majority of opeople want. Taxation without representation is a violation of my Constitutional Rights. GDC> Funny thing you have had the gonnads to call me GDC> a dictator but have said nothing of the Bush GDC> regime. TM> What boat did you fall off of? Ever hear of the '88 elections? TM> George Bush was _elected_ president. It is quite probable that he TM> will be "unelected" in '92. Give me just one, _just one_ example of TM> a "dictator" who has been in similar circumstances. You are assuming that a "dictator" cannot be elected. I don't believe that this is necessarily true. TM> You're confusing your lack of political "fulfilment" with TM> dictatorship. Again, if you don't like the way the game is being TM> played, you want to take your marbles and go home. If the "majority" TM> wants to do something that you disagree with (casually or TM> vehemently), you say they are all ingorant dupes, unenlightened to TM> the "truth" as you see it. No. But I have the right to believe, look at, buy, and live my life by my own law; when the "majority" attempts to oppress me because it does not fit their set of standars my rights are being violated. It has little to do with people being "ignorant dupes" as much as personal freedom and control of ones life. TM> If you don't like it _vote_!!!!! Persuade, cajole, yell, scream, TM> whatever... it doesn't make a difference unless you, and others who TM> think like you, _become_ the majority. In a collective society, it's TM> _only_ the majority who count. This is bulsshit, as you believe that I should compremise my beliefs and ethics to pay some kind of "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" game. Would YOU comprimise everything you believe in order to fit better to some premeditated mold that the "majority" has chosen for you? TM> (There are some safeguards in our society, however, and they are called TM> the Bill of Rights. They aren't fool proof, but I wouldn't want to be TM> without them). The Bill of Rights is a pacifier the regime uses to make you believe you actually have rights. This document will mean very little to the homosexual when the legislate against homosexuality, or the WICCAN or Ceremonialst when the fundies legislate against alternative religious. A perfect example is the so called "war on drugs"; ask the guy sitting in a Florida prison for an ounce of pot how effective this noble document was. TM> All of this brings me full circle. I said this before, and I'll say TM> this again. What we should fear in our society is not the TM> dictatorship of individuals (George Bush included), but the tyranny TM> of the masses. What do we do when the "majority" fucks up? You do away with the majority. You create a system of government where people can be treated as individuals, instead of being placed into some kind of category where everyone in there with you is not permitted to show contrary behavior or beliefs. TM> (P.S. If it is of any interest whatsoever, I will no vote for Mr. TM> Bush, nor for Mr. Clinton. IMO Bush is a stuck-up uppity rich snob, TM> who's sole reason for living is to "rule" over the poor, lowly, TM> ignorant, "less fortunate" people of this country. He "knows" what's TM> best for us, so we should just sit back and let big brother take care TM> of anything. TM> Mr. Clinton, on the other-hand, is a yellow-bellied, neo-scocialist, TM> card-carrying member of the intelligentsia - you know, those TM> grey-beard know-it-alls, who have one foot in government and one-foot TM> in la-la-land. Not only did Mr. Clinton (and Mr. Quayle for that TM> matter) decide that there were to "precious" to this country to put TM> their butts on the line, but Mr. Clinton, apparently ashamed of his TM> actions, has lied about it since day one. He's a coward, plain and TM> simple. He's the type that would ball-up in shear terror at the TM> prospect that his poor little body might get hurt. Ptthhhhpt!!!! on TM> Mr. Clinton. (Also don't forget his little feminazi bitch of a TM> wife). TM> Well, if it's not Clinton or Bush, who then? I guess it could be TM> Perot (but I doubt it). Probably Marou. I'm still undecided at this TM> point, however.) Shit man... I totally understand your frustration. However, I am so determined to get Bush out of the White House that I will vote for Clinton. It's a two party system unfortunately; I usually vote Libertarian, but this election year is so important that voting Libertarian would be like throwing your vote away. I believe there is a solution somewhere... but it will be a long time before the "majority" has decided that "enough is enough". Love is the Law. Gerald ... RPSTOVAL OASIS: Free your mind; your ass will follow. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: THE_OASIS To: Scott Brush 23 Sep 92 18:06:38 Subject: Re: FREEDOM VS. THE MASSES UpdReq In a message dated 22 Sep 92 20:39:57, Scott Brush wrote: SB> Then - POW - Reagan, the PMRC, and the Moral Majority attacked with SB> Christian religious zeal and then the music began to lose its fire. SB> In a few years all the rebel spirit of metal disappeared (with the SB> exception of thrash, which itself became monotonous and stereotyped) SB> to be replaced by a weak, nonthreatening form of average 70s hard SB> rock. Like when Vince Neil from Motlet Crew appears on MTV saying that people should take drugs? Heheh. Yeah, what a cop-out. I guess the money must be very good in the Reagan Rock campaign. Just say no? SB> I have seen musicians who I admired as heroes sell out for money and SB> fame, making music to please the average to the neglect of their SB> great talent. All my heroes are fallen, even the greatest of them. SB> For years I fumed every day about this and bemoaned the way things SB> are in much the way you have expressed yourself. Every aspect of SB> our culture is geared toward the common man and woman. Exceptional SB> skill and inspiration are not rewarded. The world we live in falls SB> far short of my (and I think your) ideals. Like Mule stated: The majority must change its mind. SB> At long last I found an answer to the extreme disillusionment that SB> harrassed my soul and the pain of betrayal. It wasn't the fault of SB> only the PMRC and the right-wing Republicans that the original heavy SB> metal gave way to crap. Again, repeating The Mule: The people allowed it to happen. SB> Everyone caused the changes in music, just as all changes of culture SB> take place. Government and religious leaders have no power without SB> the vast numbers of people who are willing to listen and obey. Even SB> I am at fault for not contributing to the genre or speaking out SB> against the repressive forces of the time. Hell, I was a Republican SB> at the time. Glad to hear you are feeling better :D SB> It is my considered belief that no government, religion, or any SB> cultural institution exists without the will of the people, even the SB> most ruthless dictatorships. The point you are making is solid. The people are constantly lied to in order to continue the control. The problem is in the people; it is easier for you regular guy to believe what he is told than it is to research it thoroughly for ones self. This is because they target small minority groups at first, and since they use religion as a basis for their hatred and intolerance the "majority" does nothing because it does not effect them directly... this however, will probably change very soon. SB> Who is one person, any person, against the vast power of the blind SB> masses. It depends on their arsenal >;-) SB> It is by playing on the beliefs that people already have that such SB> statesmen come to power, even in the most violent and oppressive regimes. SB> Apply this realization to all aspects of culture. The collective is SB> the most powerful force operating at the surface of reality. No SB> consideration of individuality can stand in the face of this. You SB> and I and people like us have consciously chosen to turn away from SB> the norm and follow our peculiar visions and ideals. We have set SB> ourselves apart from the common run and must suffer the consequences SB> as well as reap the rewards of our farsighted bravery. The masses SB> will never see things our way by the very nature of what they are SB> and what we are. I don't give a rats ass what the masses think of my beliefs, I only demand the same rights as "normal people" ;) SB> Liber Al vel Legis has much to say on this point. While it is true SB> that "Every man and every woman is a star" it is equally true that SB> the Few and Secret shall rule the Many and the Known. The Few and Secret ALREADY rule the many and the Known... and they are not Thelemites, or WICCANS. There is this assumption that a few secret Thelemites will control things, yet I don't see this happening unless Thelemic views and Tolerance becomes mainstream -- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. SB> This is a law of nature; not to be bemoaned or denied. I have reached SB> the inescapable conclusion that elitism is the only way for people like SB> us to live and have a hope of achieving our Will. I understand your point. However, the book of the Law states that The Law is for All, not just for a few select individuals with cool regalia. It is for people of all walks of life and religious background. SB> To the masses we will always seem like monsters, living by a different SB> law and a strange nature. You mean Christianity will continue to rule our conduct? What of Thelema? Love is the Law. Gerald ... RPSTOVAL OASIS: Free your mind; your ass will follow. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718