From: Vitriol Area: Night Side To: Azoth 7 Oct 92 10:07:10 Subject: Your eternal being UpdReq -=> Azoth sent a message to Vitriol on 10-06-92 10:06 <=- -=> Re: Your eternal being <=- Az> and I've got a millenium or so of accumulated hatred and distrust to Az> fuel a proper Attitude as well) And don't forget my family tree: Pope Calixtus III, Pope Alexander VI, his children Cesare and Lucrezia (a much-maligned lady, BTW), and St. Francis Borja, the third Father-General of the S.J. AZ> but I make it a personal point of honor Az> to direct my Attitude re Xtians to potentially productive lines, ie, Az> invoking the 'karmic results' clause in the fabric of their misbegotten Az> existence. I was starting to say that I figured that I was in fact some of their own karma, but it made me stop and wonder if karma isn't sometimes a feedback loop; if so, then there's only one way to stop it, and that's to stop it. I have freely admitted that Xianity is one of my personal hot-buttons, and I acknowledge to myself that it's something I need to get over, _when I'm ready_. Az> Hehe. Nah, he's a shade more respectable than most, and a damn sight I _was_ interested to read that most of the animals that the Egyptians used in their hieroglyphs came from the _upper_ reaches of the Nile, the lake regions. While it meseemeth that even a cursory look at their art demonstrates that they differentiated between themselves and the Negroid Africans, a study of their history certainly shows a _lot_ of Nubian influence and blood-mixing. I also ust ran across (in Maya Deren) the notion that Egyptian beliefs may have spread as far as some of the West African peoples who ended up in Haiti. Az> It's not so much that Achad concentrated on LHP technique Boy, you'da thought he sold the original manuscript of AL to the Vatican, the way he was excommunicated. Witness the following, from the latest issue of the Thelema Lodge OTO (San Francisco) newsletter: (Quoting from the 1945 records of Agape Lodge, OTO): The Master of the Lodge then passed the edict that no member of Agape Lodge shall within the Lodge attempt to explain the meaning of the Book of the Law, stating that much harm has been done recently in the form of many letters written by one Frater Achad, who has been led astray, and who claims that a new Aeon is here even though the Aeon of Horus is here only 43 years. Az> an attempt to place Liber AL and Magick and AC in an Az> other-than-Judaeo/Xtian _context_, such that the real significance of Az> the material might be more clearly seen, and potentially productive Az> lines of development plotted. On a personal note, I find much that is interesting in Achad's work, as well as much that I disagree with - meaning that it doesn't work for me (at this point, anyway). AZ> This is in dramatic contrast with a more Az> obvious (and necessary) protect-and-preserve role which is expected of Az> all orthodox Thelemites (hehehehehehe };-].) hehe... "To serve man..." Az> number of factors in addition to the temporal which are more Az> important. I've planned several experiments to gather furthur data Az> relative to the hypothesis that greater age = greater energy. I'll let Az> you know what I find. That's not quite what I meant. It seems like when I start a new (to me) system I get dramatic results the first few times, then find less and less "juice" generated. That's what I meant by familiarity breeding contempt. It's as if it's the newness that makes for success. After a while, the new wears off, and `entropy's fearful whine' drowns out the Vision and/or Voice. Ever use a radio with a weak battery that would work great when first turned on, then fade away? Az> Nah, just $44; they're not originals. For _real_ stone knives? What's that address again? Az> Did finally, and after many years of wanting, get the Equinox Vol Az> I, and am filling in some of the gaps in Did I mention that I have all of Vol I, and some of III, on disk? Holler if you want copies to play around with. AZ> "Time is an illusion, spare time doubly so." Sounds like the beginning of a beautiful batch of taglines. ;-) ... In the first chamber was a Dragon-Man, ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: Night Side To: Vitriol 9 Oct 92 10:09:00 Subject: Your eternal being UpdReq 93, Vitriol! V | Az> and I've got a millenium or so of accumulated hatred and distrust to V | Az> fuel a proper Attitude as well) V | V | And don't forget my family tree: Pope Calixtus III, Pope Alexander Nice tree?! You have my sympathy...};^] V | Az> invoking the 'karmic results' clause in the fabric of their misbegotte V | Az> existence. V | I was starting to say that I figured that I was in fact some of their V | own karma, but it made me stop and wonder if karma isn't sometimes a V | feedback loop; if so, then there's only one way to stop it, and V | that's to stop it. Yeah. Reminds me of a marvelous little quote from Simon Iff (_Moonchild_, chapter V): "If everyone did his Will, there would be no collision. Every man and every woman is a star. It is when we get off our orbits that clashes come. Now if a Thing goes off its orbit, and comes into my sphere of attraction, I absorb it as quietly as possible, and the stars sing together again." V | I _was_ interested to read that most of the animals that the ... V | certainly shows a _lot_ of Nubian influence and blood-mixing. I also V | ust ran across (in Maya Deren) the notion that Egyptian beliefs may V | have spread as far as some of the West African peoples who ended up V | in Haiti. With few exceptions (the Amarna Period, for example) Egyptian art seems designed to formally mask evident racial traits. Am unfamiliar with Maya Deren. Recommendations? V | Az> It's not so much that Achad concentrated on LHP technique V | Boy, you'da thought he sold the original manuscript of AL to the V | Vatican, the way he was excommunicated. Witness the following, from V | the latest issue of the Thelema Lodge OTO (San Francisco) newsletter: Yeah, I saw that. Wild, eh? Organizations must evidentially take such steps in order to survive, but I'm under no similar constraints. Josh's comments in the 'Book of Seniors' re individual responsibility pertain. V | On a personal note, I find much that is interesting in Achad's work, V | as well as much that I disagree with - meaning that it doesn't work V | for me (at this point, anyway). I'm a poor Cabalist on the best of days, but Achad leaves me wondering if there are not really 32 Paths between _each_ connected pair of Sephira, much as there are really 10 Sephira in each of the Sephiroth of the Tree. Scary thought, but it's a BIG multiverse, after all. V | Az> obvious (and necessary) protect-and-preserve role which is expected of V | Az> all orthodox Thelemites (hehehehehehe };-].) V | hehe... "To serve man..." To serve woman! (Please pass the salt...) V | Az> number of factors in addition to the temporal which are more ... V | Az> you know what I find. V | That's not quite what I meant. It seems like when I start a new (to V | me) system I get dramatic results the first few times, then find less ... V | weak battery that would work great when first turned on, then fade V | away? Ah, I see (duh.) I haven't noticed that one in a while, probably the result of my weird Pangenic approach, which places nearly everything I do, feel and think on Magickal lines in a common and dynamic context; everything I learn contributes to the matrix, everything I do empowers some part of the Web that spans multi-lives and -worlds. Things shift, powers flux and reflux, and I've stopped expecting anything to settle down to an on/off-switch predictability. Yeah, that's likely it: I don't expect anything to work the same twice in succession, so I don't really notice when they don't; I adjust my viewpoint to compensate, calibrate the technique in question, and carry on. Weird, huh? The Road to Oblivion (with Bob Hope & Bing Crosby at the Abbey of Cefalu....) V | Az> Nah, just $44; they're not originals. V | For _real_ stone knives? What's that address again? (1-800-883-0300) Atlanta Cutlery 2143 Gees Mill Rd. Box 839 Conyers, GA 30207 The ones in question are the Eagle Dagger(#3-664) and the High Priest Dagger(#3-663). HP has a 5 3/8" x 2 1/4" chipped obsidian blade (9 3/4" overall), the Eagle has a 4 1/2" x 1 5/8" blade (7 3/4" overall). Both have stabilized malachite handles, the Eagle of an Aztec design, the HP Toltec or Zapatec. Each $44. Handmade in Mexico. There are also a coupla polished obsidian daggers with clay hilts, inlaid with tiger eye or hematite, also $44. And a real beauty along Northern Amerind lines: chipped obsidian blade, crown stag handle, by Don Burda, $149. The High Priest dagger looks just about right, price, quality and size, IMO. V | Az> Did finally, and after many years of wanting, get the Equinox Vol V | Az> I, and am filling in some of the gaps in V | Did I mention that I have all of Vol I, and some of III, on disk? I've used those here for a while, but there's nothing like a real book, with all the drawings and lettering, to relax and enjoy. The bloody thing actually _looks_ like an Encyclopaedia of Initiation. And Blue may be out before Christmas. All the _real_ meat was collected by Regardie in _Gems&c, but the surrounding material helps (along with the _Confessions_ and other biographical material) to provide an accurate context, getting under Ac's skin, as it were. 93 93/93 Azoth ___ X JABBER v1.2 X Time is and illusion, spare time doubly so. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Night Side To: Azoth 9 Oct 92 10:09:12 Subject: Your eternal being UpdReq -=> Azoth sent a message to Vitriol on 10-09-92 10:09 <=- -=> Re: Your eternal being <=- Az> Nice tree?! You have my sympathy...};^] Actually, I'm kinda proud of some of them, Rodrigo (Alexander VI) especially. Az> With few exceptions (the Amarna Period, for example) Egyptian art Az> seems designed to formally mask evident racial traits. Am unfamiliar Az> with Maya Deren. Recommendations? If you say so... I've seen plenty that shows differences in skin tone, facial features, hair, etc., usually in relation to depicting the arrival of foreigners (dignitaries, tribute bearers, slaves, etc.) or of an expedition to the South. Az> I'm a poor Cabalist on the best of days, No wonder, with your book budget! ;-) Az> but Achad leaves me wondering The problem I'm having with "Revival", and I hasten to add that I have'nt really studied it yet since I'm still converting it to WP, is that I find his version of Egyptian religious history to fall in that area (like a lot of AC's stuff) where the story might be useful, its historical authenticity is doubtful. While this may not diminish its use as a tool, it gives my rational side (yes, I _do_ have one somewhere) problems. Az> if there are not really 32 Paths between _each_ connected pair of Az> Sephira, much as there are really 10 Sephira in each of the Sephiroth Az> of the Tree. Scary thought, but it's a BIG multiverse, after all. If you've been reading Bill Heidrick's series on Qabala in the Thelema Lodge newsletter, you've seen some other versions of the Tree. All of which leads me back to Alan Watt's point about graphing life: it doesn't matter if you use x-y coordinates, or polar coordinates, or whatever... it's still a squiggle. I really question whether there is any "Ding an sich." So, if it's useful to think in meters instead of feet and inches, fine. If it helps to see the Tree in one form instead of another, fine. But Life Is As It Is ("Eheieh") ____________________/\____________________ (_(_(_(_(_(_(_(_ /----\ _)_)_)_)_)_)_)_) (_(_(_(_(__ ( QUIF ) __)_)_)_)_) (_(_(_(__\----/__)_)_)_) ^^^^ ^^^^^^ ... And Eternity in an hour. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718