From: Azoth Area: Night Side To: Vitriol 6 Oct 92 10:06:04 Subject: Your eternal being UpdReq Hail, Vitriol! Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. V | Az> Aw, cumon, Vitriol: take an Osirian to lunch (feed'm to the volcano!) V | My objection is not only to the subject matter, which I personally ... V | Crusader Rabbit "mentality". Not that I don't know what you mean (I know _precisely_ what you mean, and I've got a millenium or so of accumulated hatred and distrust to fuel a proper Attitude as well) but I make it a personal point of honor to direct my Attitude re Xtians to potentially productive lines, ie, invoking the 'karmic results' clause in the fabric of their misbegotten existence. V | Az> In a similar vein, have you come across the recent work of Martin V | Az> Bernal? V | Never heard of him. This isn't another one of those all-the-really- V | together-people-were-Black deals like on Channel 32 sometimes, is it? Hehe. Nah, he's a shade more respectable than most, and a damn sight more convincing than some of the folk I've seen on 32, which are still fun to watch, esp. for the copious quotes from Massey. V | Az> BTW, that neat bit of punctuation (see tagline) that Grant attributed V | Az> to Bertiaux, seems indeed to have originated with Achad (in the V | Really?! I never saw Achad as all that LHP before, though to be fair V | I haven't seen a whole lot of his work. Hymns, Parzival, and the Tree V | is about it - none of them struck me as very `Grantian'. ;-) It's not so much that Achad concentrated on LHP technique (for which I've seen little evidence) but that his particular viewpoint on what 666 was really working with is fundamental to Grant's exposition of the identity of our Thelemic Solar/Phallic orientation with the Dynastic cult of Set/Typhon (or Shaitan/Aiwaz, from another angle.) Ditto the rudiments of an Aeonic scheme of interpretation of magickal ages. In rough terms, what Achad initiated, and Grant continued at length, was an attempt to place Liber AL and Magick and AC in an other-than-Judaeo/Xtian _context_, such that the real significance of the material might be more clearly seen, and potentially productive lines of development plotted. This is in dramatic contrast with a more obvious (and necessary) protect-and-preserve role which is expected of all orthodox Thelemites (hehehehehehe };-].) V | Az> empowered by a deep and (temporally) remote layer of my psyche, and is V | Do you find that as these layers become less remote, the energy seems V | to ebb somewhat? IOW, does familiarity breed, if not contempt, then V | perhaps complacency? Interesting question. I don't have a simple answer; there seem to be a number of factors in addition to the temporal which are more important. I've planned several experiments to gather furthur data relative to the hypothesis that greater age = greater energy. I'll let you know what I find. V | Az> sacrificial daggers of Aztec design (chipped obsidian blades, V | Az> stabilized malachite handles) which certainly ought to be evaluated... V | Unless I miss my guess, "appraised" is probably more like it... Nah, just $44; they're not originals. I'll probably order one in a coupla weeks, just for educational purposes, you understand. Looks like I may have to create some kind of time-bubble here, just to take care of the necessary business. Did finally, and after many years of wanting, get the Equinox Vol I, and am filling in some of the gaps in my education (you're right about the _Temple _of_Solomon_the_King_: great piece of work, deserves its own billing.) And I just got my hands on the Chthonios edition of Agrippa's 3 Books, and a totally killer handbook on VajraYogini practice by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (from Tharpa Publications: _Guide_to_Dakini_Land_) and a great little Bardo book by Sogyal Rinpoche. Etc.. "Time is an illusion, spare time doubly so." Love is the law, love under will. Azoth ___ X JABBER v1.2 X My God.....It's full of Stars..... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steve James Area: Night Side To: Rakshasa 6 Oct 92 22:58:02 Subject: Re: Fuzzy Bunny Wiccans Rec'd UpdReq R> I for one consider _Xeper_ to be in many ways a restatement R> and refinement of _Thelema_. The only big difference I see R> is Crowley's idea (as I perceive it) that the _Will_ was R> something determined by the accidents of breeding, R> genetics, etc. (i.e. something you _had_ to do) whereas R> _Xeper_ is the process of growth--what you do with that R> growth is entirely up to you. I do see the similarities there! I had allways interpreted will to be the accident of breeding and societal conditioning, and Will as the true nature of the being once the ego is destroyed in favor of the Ego. Hmmm, i'll have to do more thinking and comparison! Blessed Be & 93, Steve J. -- SPEED 1.20 [NR]: Don't let school interfere with your education 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Night Side To: Steve James 7 Oct 92 16:31:32 Subject: Re: Fuzzy Bunny Wiccans UpdReq SJ> I do see the similarities there! I had allways interpreted will to be SJ> the accident of breeding and societal conditioning, SJ> and Will as the true SJ> nature of the being once the ego is destroyed in favor of the Ego. SJ> Hmmm, i'll have to do more thinking and comparison! Is the true nature of the being once the ego is destroyed in favor of the Ego influenced at all by previous breeding and social conditioning? If not, then what is the "true nature" and how does it effect that being's behavior and interaction with the rest of the universe? I'm curious about this--I've seen the term "Will" and "Ego beyond ego" used by others and never had a clear idea of exactly what they were talking about. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Night Side To: Frater Almost 6 Oct 92 10:06:08 Subject: Legba Rec'd UpdReq QVIF! I moved this here, since this is an echo I access almost nightly. FA> That is very odd that you should ask that! Recently, I've begun Y'know, brother, when "you hot, you HOT!" Thanks for the info. I'm saving it to learn from it as I progress. Not to copy, of course, but to learn from. I was interested to see that you wrote your own `invocation' (or that it wrote itself through you). So far, all I have along those lines is from what I've read: Papa Legba ouvri barie` pou moin, Ago-e' Atibon Legba ouvri barie` pou moin Ouvri barie` pou moin papa pou moin pase' Le`m re' tounin ma re'me`si loa io. (The ` and ' represent the accent marks.) I'd really love to see how Chen & company have combined the Voodoo and Enochian! 93 93/93 ... And builds a Hell in Heaven's despite ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718