From: Deep Black Area: Night Side To: Brynioch 26 Sep 92 08:01:00 Subject: Re: Karma, 3-Fold Law? UpdReq Br> I can understand 'For every action there is an equal and opposite Br> reaction', but what about all this multiplication? Who/what Br> multiplies it? The Wiccan Gods/Godesses? Br> So what do y'all think? From a Ceremonialist point of view. Sounds suspiciously close to: "He knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows when you've been "bad" or "good" so be "good" for "Goodness" sake". Or how about the Judeo-Christian: "God is comming and boy is he pissed!" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lewis Cypher Area: Night Side To: Rakshasa 28 Sep 92 21:06:10 Subject: Obsession Rec'd UpdReq The last post you sent to me, the one about the scum who ripped you off for 3000 dollars (doesn't ANYONE earn their own money any more?) was very useful to me, in its candor. You touched on some spots of sensitivity in me, it made me want to brag and reafferm to me that that could never (never is a long time and alot happens during it) happen to me. Reminds me of my salad days, and the time I set out to fuck every woman within arms reach, whether they wanted to or not, by using magic to manipulate this into that. Oh, I have always been a competent magican, so I fucked (pun!) myself up pretty good that way. Got to this bleak place where nobody cared for me, and I was disgusted with myself too. Obsession is the forte of unresolved desire, and when it is backed by spells, it becomes an all consuming fire-you throw everything you cared about ever into it to keep it going, and still it isn't enough (is there ever 'enough?'). Then there was the money spells, and that was a whole set of other obsessions. Never had the misfortune of a Fuck-U-Up spell comming back on me, I guess it was because for those I do it myself-I always do my own killing-and never call up strange beasties to do the dirty. The last one I did was pretty effective, the target now has the mental capacity of a very smart parakeet, and with effort he can walk by pushing his weelchair in front of him. Of course he is no longer beating up on his wife and BABY-why would anyone beat up a baby? Well, for the answer to that, we will just have to go without, he certainly can't remember it. Your post did indeed strike a response in me, see the brag, notice the insecurity. The Intelligences, its time to call them again. Is there any limit to what they can do? I wonder if I should push this thing as far as it will go. There are two limits that I can see: One would be that I would discover that the info I am getting is all hoggwash invented by my Shadow, and the other limit is just how warped can my perception of reality get before I say 'enough!' (there is that word again, is there really anything that is 'enough?' Every time I call up an intelligence, I get warped in ways that are weird, but very exciting. If I keep steady, and keep invoking, I think everything will eventually become clear to me.On the other hand, Like, there is something in me that always wants to go beyond point X, I have always been kind of risk taking. No balls, no blue chips, as we poker players say. Like I said last time, I am staying away from the circle untill I have this impulse to kick out the stops and see what will happen just for the 'hell' of it, firmly in control. (continued...) /s 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lewis Cypher Area: Night Side To: Rakashasa 28 Sep 92 21:10:12 Subject: Talismans UpdReq I have been reading about A.O. Spare, and obscure chinese magic orders, and my fires are burning to do more in the area of Talismans. It seems to me that Spare's sigils are a talisman taken to the next level. Hang it around your neck or bury it in your brain. All the hocus pocus and tables of intent and permutatiuons of psalms just make the intend more reified. Isn't a talisman just a focus of special intent? I never belived in the energy model of magic, I been a electronics magician too long to believe in energy waves I can't mesure. So I am into this thing about talismans being actually imbedded in my thought processes, and they bend everything to their way of being-the object is just a way of getting a 'handle' on the desire, so it can be made manifest. Same for pictures on the wall, which is another advanced talisman I make, that works great. Anyway, I think the real power of a talisman comes from making it special, and making it a symbol of intent, it starts a motor in your head that runs 24 hours a day untill you get there, wherever 'there' is. Wana talk about talismans 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lewis Cypher Area: Night Side To: Frater Almost #79 28 Sep 92 21:12:32 Subject: Talismans UpdReq On the other echo, you hinted about some great effects you had with talismans. Want to talk about charms? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: Night Side To: Charles Nemo 29 Sep 92 13:42:40 Subject: Re: Karma, 3-Fold Law? Rec'd UpdReq In a message dated 26 Sep 92 18:55:54, Charles Nemo wrote: CN> Young children die in agony in places like Somalia but have CN> never done anyone any harm, and it makes no sense -- unless CN> karma/3-fold law carries on from life to life. GDC> There is also some theories revolving around the GDC> concept of "racial karma", and the karmic GDC> experience a human can aquire by being born into GDC> that race. CN> Indeed, and there's also the concept of "national karma". When it CN> comes to reincarnation, some theorists pose the possibilities of CN> simultaneous lives, and also of reverse reincarnation from future to CN> past! Ah yes. Divided for love's sake (a cause). The possibility of time travel has just entered this conversation. (What a can of worms ;)) In my meditations I have re-experienced painful situations at the time when I was a child and had no one to talk with. I go back and occupy the consciousness of the child and invoke the image of myself as a grown man, with the knowledge I now posess and I am able to to soothe the kids wounds with understanding. Slowly I have un-done some of the misconceptions which until now have served as the foundation of who I am. I am changing. I suppose that theoretically one could focus so much attention and awareness on something that a thought form could be created on a plane no longer effected by time. Of course, this sounds much like a movie at this time. Love is the Law. Gerald ... RPSTOVAL OASIS: Free your mind; your ass will follow. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steve James Area: Night Side To: Rakshasa 27 Sep 92 23:07:00 Subject: Re: Fuzzy Bunny Wiccans Rec'd UpdReq R> The process of conscious, willed Transformation must R> of necessity be left to the individual--since each person That sounds like a most reasonable approach. What do you see as major differences between the Setian philosophy and Thelema? Blessed Be & 93, Steve J. -- SPEED 1.20 [NR]: What fools these morals be! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steve James Area: Night Side To: Kevin Filan 28 Sep 92 18:12:06 Subject: Re: Fuzzy Bunny Wiccans Rec'd UpdReq KF> And I agree with much of what you said on Wicca--and much of what she KF> said on Ceremonial Magick. I think it's possible for the KF> aspiring Ceremonial Magician to get so caught up in the KF> ritual and "mechanics" of the device that he winds up KF> spending a great deal of time making sure he has the right KF> "tools" and is using the right "spell" and no time KF> wondering how his work is affecting his conscious KF> development. To be fair, I've seen less Ceremonials fall KF> into this trap than I've seen aspiring Wiccans fall into KF> the "Green-Earth-Happy-Faces-Everything-Is-Beautiful" trap. I agree that that is a trap that many fall into. Personally, I use few tools and I recognise that even those are not at all needed. I consider ritual to be a tool like any other. Ritual has it's place to help trigger other parts of the self into the proper state, and to provide a focus for the conscious mind, but I prefer to use it mostly as a learning tool, and then abbreviate it to a simple thought or tone (perhaps a word or two of Enochian). As a Wiccan, I DO wish to see a balance restored to our ecosystem, and a green earth sure sounds great. I do not, however, expect any sort of Eden tomorrow. I suspect that man has passed beyond that phase, and needs other things to grow now. All that is light isn't the Great Work or personal evolution! Blessed Be & 93, Steve J. -- SPEED 1.20 [NR]: There are NO rules. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: Deep Black 30 Sep 92 19:35:30 Subject: Re: Karma, 3-Fold Law? Sent UpdReq Br> I can understand 'For every action there Br> is an equal and opposite Br> reaction', but what about all this multiplication? Who/what Br> multiplies it? The Wiccan Gods/Godesses? Br> So what do y'all think? From a Ceremonialist point of view. DB> Sounds suspiciously close to: "He knows when you DB> are sleeping, he knows DB> when you're awake, he knows when you've been DB> "bad" or "good" so be "good" DB> for "Goodness" sake". DB> Or how about the Judeo-Christian: "God is comming DB> and boy is he pissed!" Things ALWAYS seem to balance out. But multiplication is simply an excessive effort to REALLY scare the peasants into following the status quo. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Night Side To: Lewis Cypher 30 Sep 92 23:01:04 Subject: Obsession Sent UpdReq In response to your acquaintance in a wheelchair with the brain of a parakeet--you reap what you sow. In the three instances I can recall when I actually cursed people they were being assholes above and beyond the call of duty. A curse is a powerful and dangerous weapon--if, like myself, you're not much of a fistfighter and grew up in a town where being "tough" was all-important, it becomes easy to be "full of oneself." This becomes the obsession; soon you aren't casting curses at those who truly deserve the wrath of God (or whoever) sent after them, but on those who irritate or annoy you. Before too long you start losing friends because a) they're frightened of what you might do and b) you're not looking for friends but for worshippers. That doesn't even get into the damage you can do to your psyche by venting that much raw emotional energy through it on a regular basis. I compare a Goetic invocation to an adrenalin/methamphetamine injection. It'll get the results and make you more powerful than you ever imagined; in the long run, though, it's extremely detrimental to your body. I would use the Goetia again _only_ in an emergency of last resort; I am confident it would be every bit as effective as it has been in the past, and every bit as dangerous. Your caution, I think, is well-used. You, like me, have recognized that power corrupts and magical power corrupts more than most. Maybe for a spell (pardon the pun) you should consider studying ethics, philosophy, psychology, or other similar subjects. That worked well to cure my itchy trigger finger--of course, I had the benefit of the Temple of Set's reading list, which gave me plenty of material to work with. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Night Side To: Steve James 30 Sep 92 23:10:06 Subject: Re: Fuzzy Bunny Wiccans Sent UpdReq I for one consider _Xeper_ to be in many ways a restatement and refinement of _Thelema_. The only big difference I see is Crowley's idea (as I perceive it) that the _Will_ was something determined by the accidents of breeding, genetics, etc. (i.e. something you _had_ to do) whereas _Xeper_ is the process of growth--what you do with that growth is entirely up to you. I'm not being very clear here, I fear--let me try to restate it thus. To me, _Thelema_ is the map which you follow and _Xeper_ is the process by which you acquire that map and then decide which of the routes upon that map you will take. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Night Side To: Lewis Cypher 30 Sep 92 23:20:06 Subject: Talismans Sent UpdReq Indeed I do want to talk about Talismans. I just downloaded _The Book of Pleasure_ by A.O. Spare and have been studying it. This is an exceedingly difficult and complex book, written by a man who was obviously a powerful and far-seeing mystic. I haven't got a clear idea of what the "Alphabet of Desire" is yet--could anyone enlighten me? I've noted some similarities between "Kia" and the Tao. Could anyone comment on those, and/or on the differences? I've found the Death Posture to produce _significant_ alterations in consciousness--and quickly too. Any comments on that? I'm a beginner to this branch of magic--could somebody please Spare me? (Sorry about the pun....) Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718